The Return of Monks?

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
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The Return of Monks?

Postby Tasop/Glandriel » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:00 pm

Heya's all

I've been doing some thinking and discussing things with many players lately, on ideas that would revamp the mud and perhaps spark more of an interest in people wanting to play more. Many have said, something new would be fun, and others have said more rp events with decent rewards, and others said more zones. This is all well and all, anyone can organize rp events thro the right sphere's, and zones, well, they take time to be designed and written, but new zones do happen to come in rather often. So I asked a few what if they brought back Monks, some of the newer players prob dont remember how awsome of a class these was, but it was sad to see them go. The reaction to this was rather amazing.
I have no idea how this could be done, but truth is, i feel an injection of some new classes, or perhaps the rebirth of some of the older classes would be a fresh start. Monks, Mercs, Thiefs etc, would give something for those bored of the same old daily routine something to do. I know alot of u have alot of characters, and perhaps, like many, sometimes think, 'oh, i might roll another char' and then u think, 'hhrmm, what should i create?' and it basicly ends there cause u have an invoker, u have an enchanter, warrior, stabber, necro and god knows what else, and it ends with thought that becomes nothing more than an impulse.
So perhaps give us something new to play, something new to lvl up, eq, and take into zones.
I know the thief/merc/assassin class was kinda rolled into one, a rogue, sorcy's turned invoker and so on, You managed to make an illu with new spells and skills, why not revamp/recreate more? Bring back the barehanded fighters? the headbuts' and throat crush, and perhaps give the players of Toril something new to play with. I personally think this would add a fresh element to the game and who knows, it may even give the mud a few more yrs of life and fun playing before the world of graphical rp games fully takes over.
I do hope the gods take this seriously. If you give the players something to do, something new, then it keeps them interested. Look what happened when Illu's was created. Many took an interest in them, and one main reason was, it was something 'new' to do.
Maybe if this post generates enough response then who know, maybe we will see the monks return and perhaps more....
Centaurs and Thri-Kreens would be awsome too! but i'm prob pushing it :)

Thanks for ya time

Tssassop
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Postby Dalar » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:38 pm

Waiting for the artifacts thread.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby kiryan » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:16 pm

what i remember of monks

insane single target corporeal damage, but almost no damage against wraiths. 2-3x the damage output of any other class. Rather eq independent, your damage went up by level because dice on your hand damage got better and unarmed skill contributed more damage. Had a few chants that added hit/dam or damage and takedown.

I remember monk being boring. you could only provide damage so if there was no zone group going on you HAD to play something else for entertainment (you can definitely do a lot of stuff with a rogue, and a ranger is more useful than they are given credit for).

I remember monks contributing directly to the decline of ranger. I remember ranger becoming nothing more than characters for wraith zones (SF). I remember monks being thought of as dragonkillers.

I remember 15-22 man zone groups being common. The extra people was necessary because there was no area damage to speak of (not even fire spec'd sorcs *cough* kossuth *cough*). Since there was no area damage, you also had more lattitude to increase the single target damage so they could do big fights.

--------------------

What I think about monks

I think its unfortunate that we don't have a melee starter class. Any newb can play an invoker up to 50 with satisfaction since they can do as much damage as any other 50 invoker. Ranger using archery is the closest thing we have to a class unfettered by eq.

Fortunately, we might finally be coming to the close of a 12 year long effort to balance the melee damage niche... the battle that sent rangers to the sidelines for 8 years, resulted in the consolidation of thief and asassin, and resulted in the removal of monks.

frankly, there is no where in the damage niche for old school monks. Rangers are worse than old monks in some degrees because they are highly effective on corporeal and non-corporeal mobs. Monks would have to do 25% more damage than rangers, and then we would go back to where rangers are wraith zone characters again.

The only way you could bring monks back is a full redesign probably based on a new niche as damage and tank are crowded... The only suggestion I can think of is area melee damage, but do we really want to go there? if we do, wouldn't we rather use the melee area damage niche to further differentiate the existing melee classes.
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Uh..

Postby zusuk » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:09 pm

Why not bring them back? Make it so they end up doing about the same damage as rangers or whatever so ranger's won't bitch and moan. Just have them for the variety aspect...

Or if someone actually wants to do a little work, do a little research on 3rd edition rules and see how monks are implemented in that world.. I feel strongly that 3rd edition classes are well balanced (at least base classes).
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Postby Sarell » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:51 am

Apart from balance between the classes, if you made a class that does target damage more than current classes, almost every zone is instantly made easier. If you make monks do less than rangers/rogues, then they are a pretty pointless class, except for the 'variety' aspect. I'm not sure that's where developmental focus should be. Making the roller not produce perfect stats for every character would contribute to a whole lot more variety in terms of different characters.

If monks were in, make them do the same average damage as an efhr, and give them a whole bunch of pretty skills that don't do much, some people might like it! :) I recall them being very single dimensioned.
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:15 pm

"Classic" Monks will not be coming back to Toril.
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Postby Tasop/Glandriel » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:32 pm

oh well

i only suggested it as an idea for something new to do

i guess ya's have your own ideas

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Postby Grumdikanikus » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:02 pm

Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Classic" Monks will not be coming back to Toril.
_________________
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But what about the ever popular "Surreallistic" Monks or even the "Abstract" Monks? Those could be interesting.

Grummy[/quote]
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Postby Aedes » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:40 pm

speaking of monks, or those who used to be one.....does Dayn still play here?
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Postby Selzan » Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:17 am

Shevarash wrote:"Classic" Monks will not be coming back to Toril.


Gee, what a surprise. Such a change might very well add some incentive for some older folks to login and level up a fresh new char, and add a noticeable spike to the current pbase -- not that you would want some additional players, because, you know, the pbase is at currently at an all-time high.

In all seriousness, original monks would not take all that much effort to implement ... assuming you have a modicum of creativity for making a few tweaks here and there. And I am "assuming," of course, because I know this thread is going nowhere -- at this stage of the game, beneficial changes that might rekindle the oldschool are simply a myth, not a reality. I will simply sit in a corner, though, and await the melee changes that are surely imminent -- or, alternatively, login to a different vice, where my melee character will still make a difference on raids, and has the ability to put large dents in the badguys.

Sarkhon, et al.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:10 pm

Selzan wrote:
Shevarash wrote:"Classic" Monks will not be coming back to Toril.


Gee, what a surprise. Such a change might very well add some incentive for some older folks to login and level up a fresh new char, and add a noticeable spike to the current pbase -- not that you would want some additional players, because, you know, the pbase is at currently at an all-time high.

In all seriousness, original monks would not take all that much effort to implement ... assuming you have a modicum of creativity for making a few tweaks here and there. And I am "assuming," of course, because I know this thread is going nowhere -- at this stage of the game, beneficial changes that might rekindle the oldschool are simply a myth, not a reality. I will simply sit in a corner, though, and await the melee changes that are surely imminent -- or, alternatively, login to a different vice, where my melee character will still make a difference on raids, and has the ability to put large dents in the badguys.

Sarkhon, et al.


Bump for truth.
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Postby Shevarash » Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:11 pm

You're right. I absolutely posted that "Classic" Monks would not be coming back in order to keep older folks from playing and to intentionally drive the pbase down.

Or maybe, in your rush to be offended and respond sarcastically you missed the point and failed to read between the lines.
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Postby Corth » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:16 am

Shevarash wrote:"Classic" Monks will not be coming back to Toril.


Reading between the lines.. We're getting monks, but not the 'classic' variety...

I'm guessing that fairy monks will be implemented soon after rangers are supposedly given a set of balls.

:)

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Postby Thilindel » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:40 am

What's frustrating is for a game that's based on D&D, there's no melee damage from the kings of melee - that being warriors. Some reason, one pivotal weapon made things totally outta balance for rogues. When I saw some old player handbooks my friend had, I found that rogues don't do much melee damage, save backstab, and are mostly a utility type with getting things done 'behind the scenes.'

This is why I've posted so many other times about battle mages/clerics. Shaman are clerical yet don't get offense/defense. Druids don't either, yet are what I thought, same as clerics. In D&D they seemed to be limited to non-metal, but there were a LOT of non-metal items for armor that were damned good :/

I've never been one to purposely say negative stuff about the mud, but I am extremely bored with the melee system and how spell dependant tanks are. Khanji rogues can take out a mob in 1/10th the time, if that, than a warrior if an enchanter is there backing them up. Saying the melee system as it is now is in dire need of 'balance' is like saying a Ford Escort won't pass off as a Cadillac :P

As for the core of this thread, I'd LOVE to see a melee class that isn't dependant on stupid, annoying eq hoarding. I totally loved playing monk in Sojourn1. I liked berserkers too ..well, sorta, till the bastards wouldn't flee =P
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Postby Sarell » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:44 am

Having eq that makes your character better is hardly hoarding it Thilindel. Archery came in after monks were already out and it isn't as eq dependant as a rogue or paladin to hit. Arrows need some love of course, but even the ones you carve do decent damage against !shielded mob.

I think we should bring back monks with dragonnia as their hometown, but not connect it to the rest of the mud for those who want to reminisce rather than smite the new stuff?

For those that think melee does nothing, come back, start zoning, roll a dire raider!

Yeh tanks/2h need a fix but that has nothing to do with monks.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:15 am

Sarell wrote:Having eq that makes your character better is hardly hoarding it Thilindel. Archery came in after monks were already out and it isn't as eq dependant as a rogue or paladin to hit. Arrows need some love of course, but even the ones you carve do decent damage against !shielded mob.

I think we should bring back monks with dragonnia as their hometown, but not connect it to the rest of the mud for those who want to reminisce rather than smite the new stuff?

For those that think melee does nothing, come back, start zoning, roll a dire raider!

Yeh tanks/2h need a fix but that has nothing to do with monks.


I still see people wearing similar things to what I used to wear way back when and I know how my damage was. The melee system was due for an overhaul before the MUD split, and we were told that it would be part of the EQ balancing to upgrade our melee gear. I remember how well that worked out. Maybe when those changes finally happen that have been needed since way before I quit I might give sojourn another try, until then I just can't see a future here.
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Postby Thilindel » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:44 am

Sarell wrote:Having eq that makes your character better is hardly hoarding it Thilindel.


That was an inside joke :P One can never have too much eq! EQ (khanjari) is only reason rogues are insanely overpowered. A rogue with an etched dagger used to be da bomb..now it's *sigh* I only have etched daggers!

Monks don't need eq to get that xtra tasty 8d4 moneky hands! ..at least I think that's what they got :( Oh, how I miss dragonpunching >8( I remember a surge in players when Dire's came out. It's fun to explore a class. Businesses success usually is by adapting to the need of the consumer..which is us. I believe that need for the mud is variety - especially more races and classes. It sucked ass that Cyric said one of those races listed in that other thread was basically gonna be approved..only after a year or more find out >nothing< it's not gonna happen.

Generally, you can only play a game and do the same thing over and over so much. More variety! *bounce* They'd just added berserkers and evilrace when I first visited my friend at Purdue waaay back when you would get stats like strength ***** dexterity ***..stupid stars, we found out, were relative to the highest stat haha was so hard to get a good char! That and I miss the M1A1 Abram's tank descript!!! Sure numbers are better, but it's fun to think back.

Anyhoo, I'd love to see something class or skill wise that's new. Heck, ranger's and their traps etc, have been broken for years. Not sure what to think. I'd help to just remove from the helpfile, pending.

I even would go so far as to say having more weapons that would be similar to SPOB mageblade, except having it proc very frequently, in or out of fighting, +2 hps or so. Blade of longevity ..whatever. I really liked the spob mageblade concept. Sorry for rambling, you can tell I'm frustrated but I really like the people here, and I like playing. Efforts from Eilistraee, and other coders help a ton, but the boredom lately has gotten to me :(

I imagine I'm not the only one who literally has over 1 year or more playtime just in Toril(2). Not afk idling, but being at the keys that long. Sarell, Pava, Lilithelle..so many chars are full timers. It's a part of us :P I wanna see it keep going.
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Postby Anab » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:26 pm

Ok well since the monk business was addressed by Shev I'd like to say some thing about ogres. Give em Beserker. Ogres are just damage machines and they are brought to zones for added rescue and well that bit much more melee damage. When you ponder what an Absolute warrior is in your head, what does it look like? Mine is an Ogre whom goes into battle and just goes at with all those who oppose him. Swining his axe around mightily and laying low many foes. I dont know much about game mechanics and maybe my request is out of place. Maybe we can give them it as an innate power or something? Give barbarians rage or something. Would be sweet i think. Just adding my thoughts is all.
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:28 am

And while we're at it, I'd like a pony.
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Postby Anab » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:54 am

I have one. If you throw in a sandwhich it can be yours!
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:09 pm

Shevarash wrote:You're right. I absolutely posted that "Classic" Monks would not be coming back in order to keep older folks from playing and to intentionally drive the pbase down.

Or maybe, in your rush to be offended and respond sarcastically you missed the point and failed to read between the lines.


Shevy, I read between you lines but I still think your response lacked much to be desired - as well as your implied intent. Here's why. What if you go thru all this effort and the majority of people don't like what you came up with? ("We waited this long for this!?").

Is this going to insire you to make more large changes of a similar nummy nature?

Yeah, as if. :P

So why not just imp the old monks, and then.. you know.. slowly change them to this new monk and base some of that direction/changes on the ongoing feedback of your players?

There's a thought. Since you already know where the road is going, you'd be able to implement things regularly, and even be appearing to base your changes off player feedback.

Doing so would no doubt help make it appear that the staff is actually more active, as well as being more receptive to their pbase.

Just a thought.
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Postby kiryan » Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:50 am

rofl shev that was hillarious i think...

pony since its your dream to have a pony?

or

pony because monk was a 1 trick pony?

either way, hillarious
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:33 am

Llaaldara -

Its my job to implement and balance new features. Tossing things in haphazardly and then balancing it via comittee does not seem particularly effective to me. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that most players would prefer something done right (or close to it) the first time, even if it takes a bit longer.

I understand that cryptic responses are frustrating, but I can promise that I will be as explicit as possible when the time is right. Until then, I appreciate your patience and continued feedback, and I assure you that interesting new content is on the way.
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Postby Ragorn » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:45 am

Selzan wrote:Gee, what a surprise. Such a change might very well add some incentive for some older folks to login and level up a fresh new char, and add a noticeable spike to the current pbase


Hey Stupids,

The older players are gone. Gone to WoW, gone to their jobs, or gone to spouses and children. They're not coming back, no matter what trivial class or zone you beg Shevarash to implement. Stop constantly trying to play the "old player" card. Some of you said the same shit for years about Tiamat, and now Tiamat's back, and ZOMG, the player base still sucks. Sojourn is a fun game that a lot of people have enjoyed, but stop pretending that Monks or dragons or extra phattie loot are going to act as some kind of electromagnet that will suck a hundred players back into the game.

Shevarash is right. Like half a dozen people would nut themselves for two weeks if Monks were brought back. After that, it'd be the same old shit about class balance, and oh my god your Monk outdamage my Ranger, but I cry a river because your Invoker still outdamages my Monk.

Reimplementing Monks would solve nothing. You'd powerlevel your Monk to 50 in DS, and the game would be exactly the same.
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Postby Ambar » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:09 pm

I love you Ragorn. You just said everything I wanted to.
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Postby Corth » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:50 pm

Shev gets it done right the first time...
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Postby Dranix/Straxin » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:43 am

You've sunk my battleship!
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Postby Selzan » Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:29 pm

Ragorn wrote:The older players are gone. Gone to WoW, gone to their jobs, or gone to spouses and children. They're not coming back, no matter what trivial class or zone you beg Shevarash to implement.


This coming from a person who hasn't played this MUD actively in, what, 6 years? Let me put a few things in perspective for you, Ragorn, as you hardly possess the facts to have this argument with me.

I *returned* to Sojourn 3 -- from Everquest -- after not playing this MUD for close to 4 years. I then stuck around on here for close to 2.5 years thereafter, until WoW finally prompted me to leave. Guess what? I wasn't the only person who returned more than 1+ years after S3's opening -- guys like Pheten, Mamoru, Thanuk, Dolaf, Strond, Trogar, so on and so forth all returned after multi-year absences as well. We are living, breathing examples that discredit your entire argument that the old players are "gone," and won't be back.

I won't attempt to speak for other people, but I'm more than happy to lay my cards on the table regarding why I left: I was sick and tired of sitting around waiting for beneficial changes. And, since you haven't even played this incarnation of the MUD, let's be perfectly clear: we (the aforementioned players) took the MUD seriously, we played S3 for months -- many of us YEARS -- and we certainly gave things a chance to improve. They didn't, so we faded out, one by one. Simple as that.

You point to Tiamat as proof that such changes won't spike the pbase, yet that argument completely misses the mark. Tiamat is an extended time commitment, which people like me don't have the time or inclination to dedicate an ENTIRE DAY to completing. Simply put, a zone that takes 14-15 HOURS is not going to bring back people who have quit for any extended period. You want solutions? Let's talk artifacts, guild wars, or classes that people might like to play again.

You also claim that such changes wouldn't bring back the "hundreds" of people that once played this game. Guess what? Noone is saying it will, yet you can continue to twist my words as much as you like. If they bring back 10-15 people for 6 months or more, then that is beneficial in itself -- hell, that's a FULL GROUP of highlevel players right there. The bottom line is that they'll increase the pbase, and will undoubtedly bring "some" people out of retirement.

You can continue lurking around on BBS's for games you haven't played in more than half a decade, but don't act like the spokesperson for the people who actually returned to S3, and spent MONTHS or YEARS waiting for the melee changes that never transpired. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, there are plenty of folks out there (and I'm hardly one of them) who are dissatisfied with WoW, bored with S3, or who would be otherwise intrigued by playing a monk again.

So there you have it, the brutal and honest truth -- don't shoot the messenger, and please, for the love of god, don't attempt to flame me again on subject matters that you have little to no knowledge of.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:49 pm

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OWNED
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Corth » Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:20 am

Rofl,

I was just going to call him an insufferable know-it-all but that was much more satisfying. :)

Corth
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Postby kiryan » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:46 am

i said it would cause a spike in players for at least 6 months. In hindsight I should've qualified the conditions for return, I expected a 8-12 hour tiamat with 20ish deaths per person..

I do think that several people came back to somewhat active play as a result of tiamat, and I know that several if not the whole pbase is actually excited about at least some of the tiamat eq...
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Postby Ragorn » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:59 am

Selzan wrote:This coming from a person who hasn't played this MUD actively in, what, 6 years? Let me put a few things in perspective for you, Ragorn, as you hardly possess the facts to have this argument with me.


Facts lolz?

Guys like Pheten, Mamoru, Thanuk, Dolaf, Strond, and Trogar all came back to fuck around for a few months because they got bored playing whatever they were playing. And then guys like Pheten, Mamoru, Thanuk, Dolaf, Strond, and Trogar quit again after powerleveling to 50 (and maybe you should read Mamoru's post in this thread before you try to drop his name). We ALL get the Sojourn bug every couple years, and we ALL come back to the game to see if enough shit's changed to make it fun again.

But what, you're going to come on here and flame Shevarash because you think Monks are going to be the lynchpin that keeps oldschool players interested? HAHAHAHAHAHA... yes, that certainly makes sense, doesn't it? Now that Sojourn is a caster-dominated game, now that armor class actually matters for something, and now that every Warrior in the game carries a portable hole full of proc equipment, let's bitch for a barehanded melee class with mediocre hit points and pisspoor armor who can't wear any equipment implemented since 1999. That will certainly "add a noticeable spike to the player base."

But you didn't really think about what it would mean to reimplement Monks. You didn't think about what it would do to other melee classes, or how zones have been designed for half a decade without thought to what is "Monkable" and what isn't, or how a weaponless 0ac class would fit into today's Toril. The FACT is, you didn't think at all. And it's laughable that someone who "hasn't played in six years" has to point all of this out to you.

It would be fun to play a Monk again. I had a 53 Monk on Duris for a while, and he kicked ass. But for christs sake son, don't try to get on my balls pretending that Monks would have any lasting effect on the player base. You might get a few bites and a lot of alts, but within a month or two, you'd be right back to 35 players visible.

Just like you are now, a few months after Tiamat went back in. Because you apparently forgot all the people who said the same thing about Tiamat, that readding Tia would "bring back all the oldschool players."
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Tanji Smanji
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:12 am

Monks returning, to me, would mean that the long touted melee changes were on the way which would eventually bring me and more than a few others back. Many of us didn't quit because we got bored, we quit because the game changed in a very bad direction, changes were promised to fix the situation, which when they happened made things worse.

Cryptic responses to resolving longstanding issues don't cut it for me, I want fixes for the issues that never should have happened in the first place. It's been a long time since I quit playing but the bug never left. I've devoted more time to this MUD than to any other game _EVER_ and I miss it every day. Hell, I can't remember half my tax information but I can remember the exact route from WD to MH. So no, I don't play for a few months and quit,

Old players want the fun back, not a perfectly balanced world where every stat has an equal point value based on difficulty. This place spent too much time trying to balance and lost the fun factor, lost the risk and lost a lot of the things that set characters apart. This EQ calculator is a perfect example of doing something totally wrong. It's great that its all perfectly balanced and calculated the stats on every item there is, now the game is stagnating.

Changes need to happen, the fun needs to be added and if the current people are too busy, then people with more time to devote to adding things need to be found. Thats how other MUD's mantain 5x time number of people (many of whom have played straight longer than us) keep going.

And for the record, I won't come back for monks, certainly not for Tiamat. I'll come back when I can see real and major changes to the problems we've been complaining about in threads for the past 2+ years.
How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.



Weylarii group-says 'oh shit! my penis is stuck in the toaster. afk'



Corth ASSOC:: 'up to you.. need a ranger, but if you want to afk i can probably find someone else'
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:41 am

When I first played sojourn in like 1994, what I really enjoyed was monk, berserker, and sorcerer. It was even fun to dual wield, then remove the primary weapon to get xtra attacks out of a single weapon. Between downgrading and all the funner classes being removed - yeesh. Even after how many years of being in the game, stuff gets downgraded..like Creeping Doom. Why? That spell is pretty laughable for damage since it's range is so wide. When a lvl 5 and lower mobs near TP can live thru a wave, then it's sad. It's sadder yet, just sticking with druid spells, that hailstorm can do more than all three waves of doom.

Everybody seems to talk about 'fun' stuff like backstabbing and 'song of sleep' etc..but I don't really want a twink/solo class like elementalist as much as I do a FUN class like monk or berserker. Another thing I think would help is if there were a skill like meditate where you basically bandage yourself to help heal up. Keep it active like meditate, rather than spamming "band" Warriors are completely dependent on backup - damage, spellup, healing etc.. when leveling, other classes aren't nearly so bad off. If warriors, especially ogres, could heal up 'some' that'd help a tiny bit. Ogres have the highest constitution in the game, yet regain hps slowly. Doesn't really make too much sense.

That was just a tiny example of my version of fun classes. I don't think it's the small changes that would help. Hell, how long has TRAP been disabled. Sandstorm? Etc. I always love new coding but I just truly wish what I broken recordly repeat about the best players being consulted or having their own channel would immensely help.

I really wonder if re-evaluation Sojourn 1 wouldn't be such a bad idea. The player base was HUGE. THAT fun and excitement it had is what bloomed such a desire to stick with it. Not much of Sojourn is left. More classes, bring back sorcs, remove enchanters/invokers..etc. Hell, I have both chanter/invoker, so if you do reimp sorcs, gimme my quest spells =D

Sorry for bouncing around so much, been a really rough day :(
zusuk
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bullshit

Postby zusuk » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:51 am

i'm sorry, if someone has a job of balancing stuff that's currently in mud, your ass better find a new job, cuz' u aren't very good at it

is there a nicer way of saying that? respectfully?
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:35 am

I'm quite sure I did :P But seriously, it's obvious that balancing everything would be a huge pain. I'm just waiting for my super-special 'great player's channel' idea to be put in *bounce* It's a great idea..just ask me! *nod nod*
Yarash
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Postby Yarash » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:17 am

I don't think the condition of bringing in a huge influx of new players should be a requirement for implementing something that current players will enjoy.

- Mike
Tasop/Glandriel
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Postby Tasop/Glandriel » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:44 pm

Hahaha
Some you make me laugh so much.

I created this thread to consider an idea about some new classes to keep players interested, and suggested perhaps monks purely as an example.
I figured that the code for them still existed and that perhaps re-introducing them would be easier than re-creating a new class from scratch. And then it turned into a shit flinging match between oldskool and newskool why people quit and who returned?

Really, who gives a flying dutchman on what Ragorn does these days, or anyone else that quit for that matter. They dont contribute to helping those who play now, nor really what they say mean a pile of shit anyhow.

Heya Ragorn btw, long time no see :roll:

The idea was for those who actively play now and if it encouraged more to play well great!
Personally I feel that the implimention of new classes and perhaps some other changes, eg, artifacts and some other previous ideas would aid the mud's survival and sustain the playerbase, which, atm has been rather healthy.

The fact i see evils outnumber goods (sometimes) is an example that if u give the players something new to do, and they have fun, that new things work. Whoever put all that time into restoring the evils btw is a f*cking legend if i may say so myself. *wink* Haha

Seriously Folk, We should be saying what it is we wish to see, and if shev and other coders can make it happen, think it'll work then i'm sure they will do it.

Tssassop/Glandriel
Yeh, i think i havea corpse there too....
hagah
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Postby hagah » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:45 pm

Bring back zerkers, monks and mercenaries.!!!
Hagah
Tasop/Glandriel
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Postby Tasop/Glandriel » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:47 pm

See previous post?
Quick, simple, and to the point...

I like it

Tssa
Yeh, i think i havea corpse there too....
User avatar
Shevarash
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Re: bullshit

Postby Shevarash » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:46 pm

zusuk wrote:i'm sorry, if someone has a job of balancing stuff that's currently in mud, your ass better find a new job, cuz' u aren't very good at it

is there a nicer way of saying that? respectfully?


Well thanks for that positive feedback! Appreciate it!
Shevarash -- Code Forger of TorilMUD
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:22 pm

Tasop/Glandriel wrote:Heya Ragorn btw, long time no see :roll:


Yep.

Always nice to hear from people who used to be my friends.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Nurpy Fuzzyfeet
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Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:28 am

Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:37 pm

Lol...

This is the thing with RP games. People will master them, people will leave. They will get bored. Nothing at this time, short of renting billboards all across the world, will get the pbase back to where it once was.

There are those that act as if the mud was at one point this awesomely glorious place that had no problems and everything was balanced and nothing ever got boring and noone ever left. The mud had it's problems then, and it has them now. What's different is there are places now such as Aardwolf, Everquest, etc. There are tons of MMORPGS now that were unheard of in the past. These MMORPGS can afford to advertise in magazines and television. No wonder they get all the players.

You are asking the immortal staff to make something so awesome that it will tear away and draw in old players and the new alike. And you are asking them to do it for free.

Bottom line, if you don't like the mud the way it is now, you probably won't like it 2 years from now either.
Aristan group-says 'nurpy=tripod'

Shevarash GCC: 'Tiamat stands here, fighting Nurpy.'
Llaaldara
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Location: Dobluth Kyor

Postby Llaaldara » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:21 pm

Tanji Smanji wrote:Monks returning, to me, would mean that the long touted melee changes were on the way which would eventually bring me and more than a few others back. Many of us didn't quit because we got bored, we quit because the game changed in a very bad direction, changes were promised to fix the situation, which when they happened made things worse.

Cryptic responses to resolving longstanding issues don't cut it for me, I want fixes for the issues that never should have happened in the first place. It's been a long time since I quit playing but the bug never left. I've devoted more time to this MUD than to any other game _EVER_ and I miss it every day. Hell, I can't remember half my tax information but I can remember the exact route from WD to MH. So no, I don't play for a few months and quit,

Old players want the fun back, not a perfectly balanced world where every stat has an equal point value based on difficulty. This place spent too much time trying to balance and lost the fun factor, lost the risk and lost a lot of the things that set characters apart. This EQ calculator is a perfect example of doing something totally wrong. It's great that its all perfectly balanced and calculated the stats on every item there is, now the game is stagnating.

Changes need to happen, the fun needs to be added and if the current people are too busy, then people with more time to devote to adding things need to be found. Thats how other MUD's mantain 5x time number of people (many of whom have played straight longer than us) keep going.

And for the record, I won't come back for monks, certainly not for Tiamat. I'll come back when I can see real and major changes to the problems we've been complaining about in threads for the past 2+ years.


Yarash wrote:I don't think the condition of bringing in a huge influx of new players should be a requirement for implementing something that current players will enjoy.

- Mike


Quoted for truth.

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