No wonder people bot ?

[Thilindel]

As a level 23 rogue, I spent 25 minutes practicing..pre-spammed hide;sneak. Not ONE notch.

sneak (poor) (33)
hide (poor) (33)

That's what you practice it up to at the rogue guild. This is beyond time sink :/ Why does practicing have to be so tedious? Another thing that is almost this bad is the search command. Given that one post where there's like 30 tries or more - well over 2 minutes rl time.

In all seriousness, are practicing, searching, etc. coded this way to be mean, was it an oversight, or what? I mean, it's no wonder people bot :(

Would also like to add that this is a rogue with 100 agility and wisdom (grey elf) so what gives?

[ssar]

No, It's designed that way to give a sense of earning your char's skills over significant time throughout your adventure from lvl 1 to lvl 50+.

It's a part of what makes this game good, and addictive.

[Thilindel]

Yeah, but it's the argument of the ages. What is one really learning when sitting there, spamming a command while not fighting, and playing something else in the background? I don't mind learning en route to gaining skill, but what does one possibly have to gain from no results of this:

hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak
hide;hide;sneak;sneak;sneak

..and learn nothing. It was said long ago and is still true, casters gain their skills while playing, yet melee types are required to do mindless spamming Just don't see why :/

[Ashiwi]

Because it's the luck of the draw...

Technically, a rogue CAN sit around spamming mindlessly and notch sneak/hide three or four times in an hour. That's how mages learn teleport, too, and how clerics learn bandage (with a little help from a "friend" that is), and other non-battle skills. You can't learn "disarm" by spamming it in an empty room in WD, nor can a mage learn offensive skills by casting "Bigby's Tentacles of Forced Intrusion" on a mob that isn't there.

Just how, pray tell, is a rogue supposed to learn sneak/hide ONLY by "just playing" the game? Should they have to be in Jot while spamming it? Should they have to be able to learn it only while a succubus is in the same room?

As it is a very simple skill to practice, you'll find down the road that your skills practice keeps up with your levels fairly easily. The ones that seem to take forever to notch are the ones that you HAVE to be out in the field for, or take special methods of practice. Wait until you're trying to polish off those last notches on "disarm" or "assassinate" or "missile snare" before you get too frustrated with skills practice. If you can't tolerate your rate of notching on sneak/hide, you'll end up tossing your puter out the window on those.

P.S. Go find an easy place to practice "evasion" if you're sick of sneak/hide.

[Botef]

Nog...notchs come sporadically, sometimes two or three in a row, sometimes not for hours and hours. Personally, I find giving the practice a rest a bit and coming back to it later produces better results then spending hours and hours in the same spot.

[Yarash]

The horse that is getting beaten has been dead for a long time now.

You got your skills up to 33 with no time investment. Enjoy 'em :)

For those who enjoy reading it over and over, here are ALL of the arguments (and some of the posts) for and against this idea:

Notching: Melee vs. Casting
http://www.torilmud.org:8080/phpBB2/vie ... hp?t=18051

Work and Fun
http://www.torilmud.org:8080/phpBB2/vie ... hp?t=17551

Seniority
http://www.torilmud.org:8080/phpBB2/vie ... hp?t=17539

Skill notching
http://www.torilmud.org:8080/phpBB2/vie ... hp?t=17493

- Mike

[Thilindel]

With the vast complaints about these type problems, it makes one wonder why admin won't respond/change things. Wal-mart for example, sells stuff ppl want..otherwise it'd go outta business heh. - yes the game is free and coders do a lot of good for the mud, I'm not trying to bash. However, I have a lot more I could do with my time and ppl in my life rather than just being tied to the screen and spamming a command..lest I get caged or worse from 'botting' What does spamming commands prove in the first place? Established players have skill from 'on the job' killing, etc. Not just using clothes pins to keep their eyes open from the ripping excitement from spamming hide, bash, trip, etc.

[Ambar]

O man I love ya but

I gots to say it

if you don't like walmart, go to target :P


As far as skills go, think once again about the people who pay YEARS for martial arts classes to be the best .. practice practice practice takes years to be even proficient ..

[Thilindel]

hehe you reminded me :) If you are paying for classes, sure you get better. But you learn a LOT faster in a real fight. Same thing with the mud. If it could incorporate skills notching faster while in fighting scenarios, it'd be more fun. I just happened to have had a lot of fighting, kenpo, and wrestling as a teen. I definitely learned way more accelerated while it actually counted. In pseudo fighting, you aren't 100% cuz there's no fine line between blocking, and eating teeth =D

[kiryan]

shev has stated in several threads that he has something in mind to address skill practice.

He hasn't qualified what "doing something" is, it may be making it easier to notch, it may be being able to buy notches, it may be higher percentage learning on skills that take longer to use (like assassinate 1/24 minutes or summon totem 3/168 minutes).

----

also from what I've seen, the difficulty in notching/learning skills is not dependent on the level (number) of the skill. it seems to be highly dependent on how close you are to the maximum for your level.

Therefore, going from 33 to 34 is incredibly difficult if you max at 34 for your level... perhaps just as hard as going from 98 to 99 at level 50.

It is odd that the most "efficient" way of learning your skills is to rush to 50 then go back and practice them.

[Yayaril]

8)

The key to practicing these skills is to have a TV playing a movie next to your computer and just spamming hide like 500 times before watching the movie.

[Thilindel]

lol yeah, that's pretty much what I do :P hrm, as for hitting 50 first, I guess I should try. I definitely notice when I barely have any skill in something, then use it, it rockets pretty quickly..initially!

[Shevarash]

The key to practicing these skills is to have a TV playing a movie next to your computer and just spamming hide like 500 times before watching the movie.

That sure sounds fun.

My goal is to eliminate this kind of idioitic "gameplay" from the MUD.

[Latreg]

The key to practicing these skills is to have a TV playing a movie next to your computer and just spamming hide like 500 times before watching the movie.

That sure sounds fun.

My goal is to eliminate this kind of idioitic "gameplay" from the MUD.

With all due respect how would you like us to notch non-combat skills? I don't spam 500 commands, however I have written some triggers so I don't have to type everything all the time (I don't need practice typing ;))
But I am at my computer while this happens. My combat skills have been level capped for many levels and i haven't hit 50, this I have done exping and killing mobs for coins. Track, no idea how to notch that other than practicing it.

perhaps increasing how much you can train them in a guild as well as increasing the plats cost....

[Vipplin]

Said it before in another thread, and *agree Kiryan*... skills notch faster when you are further from the current max so get some levels and you'll see the notches come quicker. If you are hell-bent on being the best-hidden and sneakiest level 23 rogue in the game, then press on with the spam! :)

For most skills it seems to me, if I just play the game I get skill progression good enough for my level. Certainly you can pay to raise skills to where they're viable for level. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Iyced

P.S. I'm not sure if Shevy was saying he's going to make it so that won't be necessary or make it so that can't be done. I'd have to agree that it doesn't seem like edge-of-your-seat entertainment :)

[kiryan]

I'm sure either way it will be a win. If he makes it !possible, then he will probably adjust the learn rate so it actually notches once in a while.

It took me 1400 shieldpunches to go from 88 to 89 and from 89 to 90 at 50. It was *spanktacular*

[Shevarash]

With all due respect how would you like us to notch non-combat skills? I don't spam 500 commands,... <snip>

I'm sympathizing with you and showing an eagerness to save you from having to do that, not condemning you. Sorry for not being clearer. :)

[teflor the ranger]

The key to practicing these skills is to have a TV playing a movie next to your computer and just spamming hide like 500 times before watching the movie.

That sure sounds fun.

My goal is to eliminate this kind of idioitic "gameplay" from the MUD.

No!!! Where will all the idiotic players go?! Trap'em while you have'em, Shev.

[Thrand]

'Track, no idea how to notch that other than practicing it.'

If you want to practice track under the current system
go to a guild with a named guildmaster. Stand outside
the guard and use a trigger to continuously track the
the mob inside the guild. The guard will block you and
you can just watch your porn. Of course be at the keys.
Or make a trigger to respond to gods who pester you.
I believe if you pay attention you will notice that the gods
actually bot their bot checking. The gods uses the same
syntax when asking you if you are at keys or having fun
practicng skills.

[Botef]

'Track, no idea how to notch that other than practicing it.'

If you want to practice track under the current system
go to a guild with a named guildmaster. Stand outside
the guard and use a trigger to continuously track the
the mob inside the guild. The guard will block you and
you can just watch your porn. Of course be at the keys.
Or make a trigger to respond to gods who pester you.
I believe if you pay attention you will notice that the gods
actually bot their bot checking. The gods uses the same
syntax when asking you if you are at keys or having fun
practicng skills.

lol