Serious Pbase Problems

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Malia
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Serious Pbase Problems

Postby Malia » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:30 pm

This has been an ongoing problem. Everyone knows the pbase has dwindled down to almost nothing. Most of the newer pbase is just alts lvling and each time we go through that cycle we lose even more of the older players that get bored and leave.

At the moment we have problems breaking 60 players. Of the 60, half are evil or close to half. So your working with 30 people of those 30 almost half are anon and cant be seen so when trying to form a group i do who good and see like 15-20 people. Of the 15-20 only about 8 or 9 are above 41 and remotly zoneable. Lfg results yeield maybe 1 or 2 adictional people.

In the last 3 days no zones have really been done besides small 2-3man stuff (which i love doing) the one attempt resulted in 2 spanks cuz the group wasnt fully formed but we all wanted to zone anyways. We aborted and left without the proper classes to play. The loss of zoning on a daily basis will kill the mud off even faster then its dwindling now.

I dont know what the fix is, but i have a few suggestions that will at least bandaid the problem and increase zoning i think.

1) remove race resctrictions from groups this pbase is WAY to small to divide evils and goods ( i think that division and competion is great but not with such a small pbase) make it temporary and if pbase increases bring back the division

2) remove the anon flags, I dont car if you anon the lvl as long as people show up on a who list. So at least you can send tells and try to form a decent group.

3) Reward the active zone leaders. this will create a desire to learn to lead and create more people that can lead thus increasing the current zoning. (as to rewards i dont know, just something bonus.)

As i said this isnt a fix to the problem but a bandaid that may give us time to come up with a better solution.
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Postby Naled » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:35 pm

I think this mud has a few big problems that have gone unaddressed for too long.

1) The content doesn't match the players. Players don't have time, an zones are getting longer. This mud doesn't lack content, but most zones don't get done because either the zones take to long, or the rewards suck.

2) There are 2 things to do on this mud. Zone or quest. Questing is basically done in the first hour after the mud boots. So 69 hours of a boot there is nothing to do except zoning, which you can't do because it takes to long.

So it's not amazing players quit. These things have been said by countless people over and over.

Pava's solution is a quick fix (which I think we should implement tomorrow), but doesn't solve the problem.

The only long-term solution is to solve the 2 problems mentioned above by:

1) Making low end zones (TF, SF ) last 1 hours max.
Making medium zones (Seelie, Swamps, Izans) last 2 hours max.
Making high end zones (ice2, BC, magma) last 4 hours max.
Make Tia last 8 hours max.
2) Make sure every zone is worthwhile by making sure each low end zone has at least one good item, even if it is rare.
3) Rareload questmobs/items should not only pop at boot. Make them have a x% chance to pop every time the zone pops so the game doesn't die off 1 hour after boot.

Instead of adding content that doesn't get done, make sure the content that we have can be done.

It also might be a good idea to announce what is being done to address this problem. The perception now with a lot of people is that nothing is being done, and people quit bored. If they know something is in the works they might check back later and return.
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Postby Disoputlip » Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:11 pm

I disagree with giving rewards to leaders. Often there are the leaders, just not all the other slots.

The trick is that leaders always needs to loose what they are trying to get, because then they are trying to do the zone until they get it.

Muds always have fewer people playing in the summer, so I am not too worried about this. But having something that encurage zoning if ofcourse welcome (mabye specific zones, say seelie have an xp bonus if playerbase < 50).
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:57 pm

I'm kinda away for a bit cuz I honestly get tired of waiting for things being addressed and coming soon stuff. I know the staff has rl, etc., so it's no big deal. I am just bored with the routine until something new is in..especially some classes in need of rehauling. - This isn't meant as a slam, but it does make me wonder why things that are really needed, like dumping that silly Khanji, well..just stuff like that which totally lopsides how things are done, are put off or ignored, yet the little nickel and dime stuff like eating group cache goodberries, etc, are fixed asap (of which I didn't partake). You can hoard partially eaten goodberries and get the same outcome. They're like neverending. Sure, group-cached gberries were a 'glitch' but who's it hurting? With the small populace, little helps like the tiny heals would be invited.

Usually the staff is really nice and patient, but I really wish there were more classes and skills to be fixed. _How_ long has ranger's trap/snare been pending?

I fully believe racial restricts should be dropped. Shev picked up the mud's lead awhile back. Just because you take over something doesn't mean you accept the way something is. When evils first came out, you could group with them, and they could enter waterdeep, etc. Except for RP, imho a player should be a player, and just that. The mud is all about PC vs. NPC.
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Postby Latreg » Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:48 pm

given the currect pbase, something else you might try is to schedule zones, not just the biggies like bc and tia. You know I'm always on I'll play good race if I have to ;)

there should be scheduled days for exp too, if a new person actually logs on, chances are they'll have nothing to do, but if they know Mondays are exp days they may come back, get some exp, learn the game and stay. With everyone so busy these days, people will make it a point to be on for something specific, rather than logging on and hoping something will come about.
this could be used to advertise the mud as well, "come join an exp group on Mondays, RP Fridays etc etc
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Postby Sszantiel » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:15 pm

For what it is worth, I attempted to start playing again recently but after a couple 12 minute ress fatigues and impossibly long CR's with subsequent exp loss, I gave up.


I don't know how to make CR's easier because part of the problem is low player base so a lot of the time you end up with no help, but I think a massive reduction in ress fatigue duration and removing the race restrictions would help immensely.

Gasp! I would also suggest less exp loss for deaths.

I understand that these changes would lower the players sense of accomplishment to a degree but I think adding new challenging content might alleviate that somewhat.

This mud needs to evolve with the changing climate of online games a little faster than it is and I think these radical first steps might help.

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Postby Jhorr » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:52 pm

I have an idea: Multiplay Mondays. Let us multilplay on Mondays (or some other day of the week) and compare MUD activity on that day with the other days of the week. I'd bet you see more stuff being done.

It is true that activity generally slows in the summertime. This has happened every year since people (1) go on vacation and (2) don't have their college's Ethernet connection until the Fall.
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Postby Gormal » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:17 am

Give some credit at least to the RPQ sphere. I enjoy what they do immensely.

Other ides:

1.)FNAT
2.)Artifacts
3.)Politics
4.)God Favoritism
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Postby Ifin » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:37 am

To stem the pbase problem means that the people who can implement the changes need to either 1) re-evaluate priorities if they are serious about wanting the game to continue and grow or 2) ... .

I must admit, I bailed ship early and stopped playing a lot, some due to increased studies, but also from the sense of apathy towards suggestions that really could have grown the game. It would lead to the point that it has now, pbase at around 80 when it was already hard enough to put together groups to 60 and the calculations that Pava did.

Activity is a snowball effect, if there's already people doing stuff (zoning) then people will play, but once there's lack of activity people will stop just because there isn't.

There's three groups of players in my eyes - newbies, middle-age players who still want to zone and benefit from doing so, and old school players who have all the eq they really need. The new and end-game are seriously broken.

We'll never get new players because the newbie game is ridiculous as been addressed in countless posts no matter how much we vote. There's been countless posts on how to address this w/o major coding - just thought and a little bit of time.

We need to recognize the fact that a good portion of players are old school with eq and don't "need" to do every single zone. Right now there's only vertical eq advancement, guild halls should've been implemented when there were 3-4 active competing guilds which also could have helped with removing eq from the game. This could've been a policy instead of coding decision, I think the most lost cause of all which really frustrated me.

Part of the reason why zones are so long is because only the long zones have eq worth doing. There is so much content (again as said before) that take 1/2-2 hrs, but no incentive. Move eq around, create an alchemy system, have zones give out rewards that can build up to xp or restrings for those people who have it all, or something.

Right now the MUD needs to make it so people see 6-10 man groups constantly going, which only makes sense if 6-10 man zones are worth it to do, so activity is generated that spurs more players that spurs bigger activity, instead of always trying to reach a critical mass for 15 zones that used to get done just once a day, and now once every 3 days which saps momentum.

School's out for me though, so I might play from time to time, though just to note the only character I feel like playing in the meantime is my warrior and invoker, so hit me up if you see me.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:38 am

I came back for a while when I heard about the Homeland/Toril merger, which was forever ago. When the staff didn't run with the enormous potential there, I left again. Haven't been back seriously since.

The only good solution to this problem is for Shevarash or whoever has the authority to make this a pay to play mud and then have a job day...

If the current staff can't get things done for free, it's time to pay a staff who can.[/b]
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:13 am

What really sucked was that Touk is a great coder. When item changes came in, several dumbasses were calling out 'god favoritism' Lo and behold, Touk kinda left full time around that timeframe. There are a couple other gods who did amazing things for the mud, but ppls' attitudes are so shitty and focus only on the negative - at least they tend to. I've posted SEVERAL thanks posts in the past and ppl read them, but don't really toss their 2 cents in. Maybe some dorks think it's ass kissing, but I did it just cuz there are rarely any kind of posts but negative or grumpy posts from certain players. Then you get the ppl who complain that others posts too many ideas. Yeesh.
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Postby Maedor » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:36 pm

Thilindel wrote:yet the little nickel and dime stuff like eating group cache goodberries, etc, are fixed asap (of which I didn't partake). You can hoard partially eaten goodberries and get the same outcome. They're like neverending. Sure, group-cached gberries were a 'glitch' but who's it hurting? With the small populace, little helps like the tiny heals would be invited.


Yea, don't recommend using that 'glitch'

Who else got deleted for that one?

Maybe the more relevant question is, how many people SHOULD have been deleted for that.

snicker
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Postby Maedor » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:41 pm

Jhorr wrote:I have an idea: Multiplay Mondays. Let us multilplay on Mondays (or some other day of the week) and compare MUD activity on that day with the other days of the week. I'd bet you see more stuff being done.

It is true that activity generally slows in the summertime. This has happened every year since people (1) go on vacation and (2) don't have their college's Ethernet connection until the Fall.


That'd be a good idea.

What I've witnessed on other multiplay days is people just plvl their alts. I'm not sure that 1) more zones would happen, or 2) noobs would be taken on the xp trains.

I would like to see the penalty for grouping additional people for xp reworked. It's hard for new players to level, because the established pbase only wants to xp from 1 to 50 in the fastest time...not that I blame them
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Postby Shevarash » Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:02 am

I understand your concerns - and I share them. I *am* working very hard to bring something new and fresh tot he MUD that I hope will re-kindle interest in this game for many of you. There will be details very soon now, so please bear with us a little longer.

And for the record, I do appreciate the feedback - but flames (against the staff or players) will not be permitted in this forum.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:14 am

Shevarash wrote:I understand your concerns - and I share them. I *am* working very hard to bring something new and fresh tot he MUD that I hope will re-kindle interest in this game for many of you. There will be details very soon now, so please bear with us a little longer.

And for the record, I do appreciate the feedback - but flames (against the staff or players) will not be permitted in this forum.


This mud needs more Teflor! Be back later with suggestions!
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Postby Malia » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:38 am

Thanks for responding Shev. I hope its not to late by the time you implement this new idea that is going to re-kindle it. I hope theres enough pbase left to spread the word =)

Any chance we can implement a couple of these ideas as a bandaid fix until then?.
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Postby Corth » Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:55 pm

I give up..

Everyone knows whats happening. :)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Thilindel » Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:26 pm

Corth

Y ya so anxious to rub salt every freaking time? Go find something you wanna do if you don't want the mud to survive I guess.
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Postby Corth » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:26 am

Eh?
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Thilindel » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:51 am

Every time Shev makes a reply, you make digs. So, no 'eh?' about it. You could post something positive to try perhaps rather than your typical jab at how the mud's run, etc.
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Postby Corth » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:56 am

Take a look at my posts in this thread.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Thilindel » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:57 am

The one I saw last night got deleted :P (and it wasn't positive!)
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Postby Corth » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:00 am

Right.. Its pointless to say anything about the way this mud is run if the people I am criticizing are deleting my messages.. so I said that I give up. And then you told me to stop criticizing them.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Thilindel » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:04 am

I didn't say stop being a critic. I'm sure tons of ppl like you being a relo beacon and all since you quit leading. What I was trying to say is you typically critical every time Shev tries to post something constructive. The negativity isn't needed, nor helpful. I especially don't understand your " :) " everytime you're saying somethin negative. *shrug*

Either way, I'm not trying to keep you from talking or posting. I'm just saying I don't like it when you post negative stuff about the admin when I'm sure they're trying the best they can.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:57 am

I hear that Corth would play again if they put the goodberry 'glitch' back in.
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Postby Lilira » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:36 am

In the summer ptime does drop. I myself just got back from a week long trip, and there are several others I know of in a similar situation... they just get longer vacations than I do. *rofl* But thank god I'm home with my computer. It whined when I turned it on.

Its very hard to wait for something when you know its coming, just ask my 5 year old. *wink* I'm sure there will be a nice big post when it comes in, and the same ripples that temporarily recalled some of the old players when Tia came in will draw a few people back, then hopefully we can go from there.

Before someone tosses a post with regards to me being blind, downward spirals, etc etc etc, I have to be optimistic... There's enough negativity that floats around these forums.

Imms, keep up the work, and thanks for what you've done!
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Postby Corth » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:23 pm

Thilindel wrote:I didn't say stop being a critic. I'm sure tons of ppl like you being a relo beacon and all since you quit leading. What I was trying to say is you typically critical every time Shev tries to post something constructive. The negativity isn't needed, nor helpful. I especially don't understand your " :) " everytime you're saying somethin negative. *shrug*


I understand your concerns, and I share them. I *am* working very hard to find positive things to say about the people who run the mud. There will be details very soon now, so please bear with us a little longer.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Lilira » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:10 pm

Lilira wrote:Before someone tosses a post with regards to me being blind, downward spirals, etc etc etc, I have to be optimistic... There's enough negativity that floats around these forums.


Corth wrote:I understand your concerns, and I share them. I *am* working very hard to find positive things to say about the people who run the mud. There will be details very soon now, so please bear with us a little longer.


I rest my case Your Honor. *wink*
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Postby Corth » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:14 pm

But Lilira..

I am trying very hard to be positive! I just spent 30 minutes going through "news" trying to find any significant updates to the mud in the past year and a half. Granted, I didn't find any. But I tried really hard to be positive! And it occurred to me that maybe the pbase is down 25% or so because its summer. So the 19 people on this morning really translates to 24 or so during the rest of the year. That IS a positive! :)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:35 pm

I'm getting older and older waiting too....
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Postby Ifin » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:35 am

The problem if the people who can make changes has actually taken the time to analyze actual gameplay and why people would stay/leave.

Why were artifacts/god favoritism/politics so good back then and why is lack of it so bad now? It boils down to how you can "advance" your character. When people have reputations, and other people's judgement of each other counted and there were turf wars, etc., you could "advance" by doing more, showing off more, playing the political game instead of straight eq.

That worked fine back then when there was a lot of people, but now to suggest that's what we need like suggesting that Tia was all we needed doesn't get to how things are structured now.

Back then, there were two sides to make artifacts/favortism a big deal and translate into the politics side of each side trying to win. Nowadays even when the pbase was hovering around 80 there is only one side to play (in terms of groupage of people). Leaders struggle to form groups and instead of being picked it was anyone who could zone would zone. So even now two outcomes:

1) given to the right people I doubt people would hate them but would congratulate them and it'd be like winning a piece of eq from Tiamat (in that sense)
2) given to the wrong people the dedicated people would probably think of it as dumb move and maybe even quit themselves. Both outcomes I don't see really spurring anything.

The next big change I can really see would take so much resources and want to be a surprise is maybe something like melee changes, but much like Tia think about the long term outcome and I don't really see growth until the base problem of just vertical (eq) player advancement is solved and spurring activity across the board. I'm sure people log on now, "who" and see nothing will get done so just log off.

I'm just saying this cuz' as Pava said, it might be too late when the next BIG thing comes, but the next BIG thing might not even do much in the overall picture when so many other things that don't require so much (coding) resources can help. I also don't think imms have really analyzed the problem, as when the problem of Izan's having too much eq in one place was misinterpreted as a "slam", it was merely stating a common conception about the distribution of eq as a whole is broken and how it really hurts activity.
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Random idea

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:03 am

Just a random idea, just seeing what you guys think. Might help, might be bad.

What would happen if certain items, for instance Tiamat items, 'poofed' if character hadn't logged on/used them for xx number of days? Quirky, I know.

Eep.
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Re: Serious Pbase Problems

Postby Tasan » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:58 am

Malia wrote:2) remove the anon flags, I dont car if you anon the lvl as long as people show up on a who list. So at least you can send tells and try to form a decent group.


If yer anon, it probably means you don't want random tells. There's an LFG flag specifically in the game if you are "looking for group". Until there is a "friends" list or something initiated for tells the anon flag should stay.
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Re: Random idea

Postby Ambar » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:46 am

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Just a random idea, just seeing what you guys think. Might help, might be bad.

What would happen if certain items, for instance Tiamat items, 'poofed' if character hadn't logged on/used them for xx number of days? Quirky, I know.

Eep.


that would lead to ..

people logging on ONCE to reset the timer and preserve their gear

be funny to see that *evil* portable hole holder pissed off tho .. *giggle*
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Re: Random idea

Postby Vigis » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:54 am

Ambar wrote:
Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Just a random idea, just seeing what you guys think. Might help, might be bad.

What would happen if certain items, for instance Tiamat items, 'poofed' if character hadn't logged on/used them for xx number of days? Quirky, I know.

Eep.


that would lead to ..

people logging on ONCE to reset the timer and preserve their gear

be funny to see that *evil* portable hole holder pissed off tho .. *giggle*


Nah, I'd just log on and give it to my guild leader to hold onto and use among the guild until I can find the time to play with regularity. I haven't been able to log on in quite awhile :( It's a combo of things really, work is busier, I'm back in school to get my MBA, and it is summer so when I do have time to spare I head outside.

But yeah, if it was implemented that my Tia gear (which has cost me more time, deaths, and xp than any other 10 items I have) happened to poof while I was tied up with RL, well let's just say it wouldn't help increase the pbase one bit :)
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Re: Random idea

Postby Ambar » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:00 pm

Vigis wrote:
Ambar wrote:
Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Just a random idea, just seeing what you guys think. Might help, might be bad.

What would happen if certain items, for instance Tiamat items, 'poofed' if character hadn't logged on/used them for xx number of days? Quirky, I know.

Eep.


that would lead to ..

people logging on ONCE to reset the timer and preserve their gear

be funny to see that *evil* portable hole holder pissed off tho .. *giggle*


Nah, I'd just log on and give it to my guild leader to hold onto and use among the guild until I can find the time to play with regularity. I haven't been able to log on in quite awhile :( It's a combo of things really, work is busier, I'm back in school to get my MBA, and it is summer so when I do have time to spare I head outside.

But yeah, if it was implemented that my Tia gear (which has cost me more time, deaths, and xp than any other 10 items I have) happened to poof while I was tied up with RL, well let's just say it wouldn't help increase the pbase one bit :)


I was actually talking about another person :) Unless you have tentacles :P
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Re: Random idea

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:29 pm

Vigis wrote:Nah, I'd just log on and give it to my guild leader to hold onto and use among the guild until I can find the time to play with regularity.


But at least it would be used in game right? And I was thinking about something more than just "log in once". I know what you mean though Vigis, and I also know what Ambar means. There are several high end tiamat items that haven't been logged in for months. That's a waste. Just a curious thought, that's all.
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Postby grundar » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:26 pm

tiamat eq poofing? nonononono, by this time in my life i can recognize a pbase destroying idea just by its distinct rotten cytric smell... you want a tiamat item being used in mud? go lead tiamat and win one yourself.. dont expect handouts from fear of people's items poofing..

that being said perhaps this idea has some merit if it is completely revamped in an artifact sort of way... see i dont know about here but in homeland there was a command you typed artifacts and a list popped up kinda looking like this:
wyrmfang, the spear of dragons - none
a vile unholy avenger named Tyranny - krevix
an enourmous halberd named 'orcsplitter' - allycis

and so on and so on till the list was full... there it was annoying that artifacts were on people who never did play so this could be applied to bring back artifacts.. im kinda drunk and stoned so bare with me here i know my grammar aint great :P

lets say for discussion that artifacts were brought back in in this context.. now the named artifacts are much more powerful than their unnamed counterparts be it that lets say twilight artifact version is permhasted and has one extra damage dice along with one extra proc or longer lasting procs whatever.. the same could be done with a handful of the tiamat items, say the dagger/mage circlet/whatnot...

now say you win and stuffs.. ok you now have an artifact and you are immortalized in the arti command by having your name next to spiffy Tyranny or the gayness of porksplitter or the oldschool coolness of twilight whatever.. people will drool when seeing you and all that.. ok thats cool but what happens when you havent logged on and people are starting to think that it was a waste on you? easy fix.... artifacts need to be fed.. otherwise they take the life of the owner to restore their power which would make you log on otherwise it would consume you while offline (read expdrain)... dont want to be consumed offline? ok so put it in storage.. but if someone else gets the artifact while you're storing the artifact you risk losing it... at which point your named twilight becomes regular twilight loosing all the uberness of permhaste and shite...

how would one get the named artifact off you is fun... the minute you put it on storage it becomes fair game and the named artifacts which are in storage start loading again.. they are all nolocate and when mobs have them or they are just lying in a room somewhere they wont show where they are on the list so how would you know the named artifact aint there? you dont, thats just the point.. you CAN take an artifact away from someone who does not play.. but it is gonna be hard about as hard as it was for the guy to win it in the first place.


now, how to imp artifacts without a wipe is the real interesting part: uber rareloads and when they do load the unnamed one does not load when it is stored makes it !ingame so it chances the load again and when it is on an offline pfile its ingame but with some code that drains 5% here and 5% there... artifacts are something godly.. but they are not for the weak :P

it'll bring back more leaders cause they'll want to claim the artifact like the other leader claimed and stuff, plus in this scenario there's no god favoritism or any sort of immortal hand going into artifacts so there's no crying foul... oh and for people with over 900000% over 50... the expdrain increments exponentialy :P
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Postby kiryan » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:49 am

pbase always takes a dip in june and generally picks up in august. its the summer for whatever reason, college, nearly nekkid chicks, vacations ect...
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Hmm no.

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:08 am

grundar wrote:you want a tiamat item being used in mud? go lead tiamat and win one yourself.. dont expect handouts from fear of people's items poofing..


Rofl, you're right, that's exactly what I want. Tiamat handouts. Actually, what I really want is to see people PLAYING the game. I also don't want to see people logging on just to do Tiamat, winning an item, then renting for 6 months. The same applies to many high end zones.

But like I said, it is a small point about a much larger problem.
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Postby Corth » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:10 am

Summer certainly takes a toll on the pbase. And yet, somehow in the past there were still enough people on at any given moment to have multiple zoning groups. Now, people need to post messages on this bbs to come up with enough players to attempt jot invasion.

Its unfortunate, but I am afraid that we are at or close to a point of critical mass where the decline is terminal. This mud was built for 15 person groups. Its been a long time since the pbase was 30-40 people and zones were geared towards smaller groups. If people cannot do zones, they are not going to play.. and the pbase decline will intensify. Urgent action is needed.

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Gormal » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:36 pm

Corth wrote:Summer certainly takes a toll on the pbase. And yet, somehow in the past there were still enough people on at any given moment to have multiple zoning groups. Now, people need to post messages on this bbs to come up with enough players to attempt jot invasion.

Its unfortunate, but I am afraid that we are at or close to a point of critical mass where the decline is terminal. This mud was built for 15 person groups. Its been a long time since the pbase was 30-40 people and zones were geared towards smaller groups. If people cannot do zones, they are not going to play.. and the pbase decline will intensify. Urgent action is needed.

Corth


Before anyone suggests it, I'd like to say that pwipe is probably not the best course of urgent action for the game yet. After things are hammered out and reworked, then yes I'm all for a pwipe, but right now I think it'd be a death knell for this place.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:25 pm

Just some news on whats being planned and how soon it's coming in would be nice.
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Postby Lilira » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:06 am

Less participation on the BBS.. more in game!

Even I'm starting to get depressed.

Nice pbase for Magma last night though.. 40-something people on.
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Postby Malia » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:11 am

sad day when we think that 40 on is a nice pbase during peak zoning time.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:37 am

We need pay to play.

Then we can hire Shevarash and Vhaeraun and make them use their uber coder leetness to modernize the mud.

Or everything will be the same and the guys still playing the mud will not be able to afford it anymore and the mud shall die.
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Postby Corth » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:39 am

Thats insane.. well maybe not the part about making it pay to play..
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Ifin » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:59 am

Yeah, 40 players on "peak" time during a scheduled zone... And again as Pava went through if we see 60 max each boot, but really only see 40 or so visible, say 15 evils 25 goodies, w/a lot AFK...

I've been back this last week but it's hard to stay connected if you can't get enough people to play the game, like playing a board game by yourself.

Having the Shev/Shar go into each post and saying "that's be addressed" is one thing, but how about some comments on policy or directional decisions that could be implemented in the very near future?

The forums have been quiet for awhile, but with the posts Pava has started dramaticizing the issue and the lack of responses to suggestions improving the real problem is sad.

Time is a problem, and the lower the pbase gets the fewer the options. Guild halls are no longer a solution due to ineptness. IMHO artifacts/politics isn't either (though others might disagree. And again I say it could've worked if pbase was 80-100+, framing from a guild perspective, if you gave it to a !Scion I know for sure Scions would've been all over that, but everyone's on the same team now). Any code change not addressing player advancement ceilings (ie melee), won't sustain everyday pbase numbers either.

A lot of it is POLICY decisions, which cannot be excused by "we're working on it".

I know a lot of people want to see if something will get done or if any of the myriad of ideas discussed have even been thought over. Otherwise what's the point of playing if it's not even a playable game anymore?

Just to frame some of the ideas tossed (again, a lot of these can be modified with little time but just sound policy):
- artifacts (even considered? how given out to people? would it need to be fed?)
- limited pkill in some zones
- modify low end game to make it friendlier to true newbies (upgrade newbie eq so some classes don't die to lvl 1 mobs, + many other suggestions)
- multiplaying (maybe 2 connections/person, would actually make zones doable now, limited days)
- zone changes (maybe low % load a super piece of eq in each zone, xp/prestige/etc. tokens)
- xp changes (simplest way suggested up xp given/mob, raise trophy)

And lastly, the players on the MUD know who the long time players are that *still* play and want to help the game get better (instead of people like Corth who troll, though admittedly gave a lot of good advice in the past that wasn't taken but just gives bitter comments now, w/o knowing the current dynamics).

If you're really serious on good intentioned changes, why not communicate with them and actually give them power to change things? Some of the comments from other Gods show that they're really out of touch with the dynamics of the current game (not a slam, just making an observation). Yes people like Lilithelle and Sarell and Pava.

Last post for me. Can read through my old posts again stressing ways to increase activity and the low & end game instead of other stuff to get bogged down in.

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Postby Corth » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:17 am

You guys were let down by the others who simply left and didn't bother to troll.

Oh, by the way:

< > who
Listing of the Staff
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
<None>

There are 0 visible staff member(s) on.

Listing of the Mortals!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[44 Enc] Zizziz (Drow Elf)
[30 Nec] Lishisa (Drow Elf)
[47 Rog] Alili (Human)
[50 War] Zusuk Lik Muk (Troll)
[43 Inv] Deabnue Schneabnue (Human) (RP)
[50 War] Gruy (Troll) (RP)
[49 Bar] Anire (Grey Elf)
[50 Lic] Aluvon -Warlock- Triterium (Human) (AFK) (RP)
[50 Psi] Zoominixxar * Indolent Lapse * Malevolent Order (Illithid) (AFK)
[50 Nec] Nutoglel (Human)
[46 Ill] Corth Khonier -Elusive One- Elders of Netheril (Human)

There are 11 mortal(s) on.

The bottom 5%.. in all their afk glory.

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Ambar » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:08 am

Check the time of Corth's post .. 5:17 AM (EST) .. 2:17 AM PST on a sunday few hrs before US monday morning work

Yes the pbase has dwindled, but be realistic when you post :)
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