Serious Pbase Problems

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:02 pm

Even still Jen, I'd bet that only 3 of the people on that list were at keys at most. A few of those names are perma-afk types who idle 24/7.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:58 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:We need pay to play.

Then we can hire Shevarash and Vhaeraun and make them use their uber coder leetness to modernize the mud.


Luckily, I'm just crazy enough to spend my time modernizing the MUD for free. :)

I completely understand all of your frustrations at the apparent lack of development - I remember what it was like to be a player and to anxiously await news of updates, and to check the news periodically.

I also appreciate the urgency of the situation. I've seen Toril/Sojourn through some pretty severe ups and downs over the past decade, and while this current period is disheartening - iuts not the worst we've faced, and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

So that said, not only am I *aware* of the situation, I also care deeply about this place and I will never just stand by and let it die. I refused to do that when it shut down in 97, again in 2001, and again in 2003.

I have been working hard for the past six months to put together a massive update for the MUD. I literally work on it every single day for as long as I can. I'm preparing to make an announcement sometime this week as to the details of this project, and I believe you will all be happy with the changes, and with luck and careful planning I have high hopes that this progress will help revitalize this MUD.

Thank you for your continued patience - it will be rewarded.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:34 pm

Are these changes good enough to bring me back?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:47 pm

You'll have to be the judge of that, but I certainly hope these changes will braethe some new life into the Toril experience for even the oldest and most experienced of players that have moved on to other games.
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Postby Thilindel » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:52 pm

Shevarash wrote:... but I certainly hope these changes will braethe some new life ..


Hopefully they'll 'breathe' better stuff than dragons! :P j/k
Thanks for the effort, Shev!
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Postby Latreg » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:37 pm

Thilindel wrote:
Shevarash wrote:... but I certainly hope these changes will braethe some new life ..


Hopefully they'll 'breathe' better stuff than dragons! :P j/k
Thanks for the effort, Shev!


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c 'minor creation' breathe mints
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Postby Dalar » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:29 pm

Shevarash wrote:You'll have to be the judge of that, but I certainly hope these changes will braethe some new life into the Toril experience for even the oldest and most experienced of players that have moved on to other games.


I'm quite disappointed in the professional and non-humorous tone you have taken in your response. You'll crack. They all do.

DARTAN
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:09 pm

Shevarash wrote:Luckily, I'm just crazy enough to spend my time modernizing the MUD for free. :)

I completely understand all of your frustrations at the apparent lack of development - I remember what it was like to be a player and to anxiously await news of updates, and to check the news periodically.

I also appreciate the urgency of the situation. I've seen Toril/Sojourn through some pretty severe ups and downs over the past decade, and while this current period is disheartening - iuts not the worst we've faced, and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

So that said, not only am I *aware* of the situation, I also care deeply about this place and I will never just stand by and let it die. I refused to do that when it shut down in 97, again in 2001, and again in 2003.

I have been working hard for the past six months to put together a massive update for the MUD. I literally work on it every single day for as long as I can. I'm preparing to make an announcement sometime this week as to the details of this project, and I believe you will all be happy with the changes, and with luck and careful planning I have high hopes that this progress will help revitalize this MUD.

Thank you for your continued patience - it will be rewarded.


oooooooh....

Those two statements sound exciting.
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Postby Disoputlip » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:57 pm

I am looking forward to the changes, and also hope it will make the mud more unstable.
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Postby Corth » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:03 am

...Hoping that the long awaited double secret changes don't amount to merely a few fixed crash bugs and a new race or class... Its going to take a lot more than that to turn things around here...
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Dalar » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:36 pm

Can someone IM when the announcement is made. Thanks.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Teshidee » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:36 pm

ahem, you forgot to give it to me! *sniffle*
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:04 pm

Shevarash wrote:Luckily, I'm just crazy enough to spend my time modernizing the MUD for free. :)

I completely understand all of your frustrations at the apparent lack of development - I remember what it was like to be a player and to anxiously await news of updates, and to check the news periodically.

I also appreciate the urgency of the situation. I've seen Toril/Sojourn through some pretty severe ups and downs over the past decade, and while this current period is disheartening - iuts not the worst we've faced, and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

So that said, not only am I *aware* of the situation, I also care deeply about this place and I will never just stand by and let it die. I refused to do that when it shut down in 97, again in 2001, and again in 2003.

I have been working hard for the past six months to put together a massive update for the MUD. I literally work on it every single day for as long as I can. I'm preparing to make an announcement sometime this week as to the details of this project, and I believe you will all be happy with the changes, and with luck and careful planning I have high hopes that this progress will help revitalize this MUD.

Thank you for your continued patience - it will be rewarded.



so.. announcement tomorrow? :P Maybe?
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Postby Jhorr » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:57 am

In an effort to help new players roll effective characters and increase their enjoyment of the game, I've created a thread on the New Player Help section. Please feel free to respond and expand this thread with your experience, opinions, and tips.

http://www.torilmud.dyndns.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18456
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Postby Malia » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:30 am

Hmm No announcement this week...
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Postby Shar » Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:51 pm

It will happen this week! Week is not over yet.

OH ye of little faith!

*hugs all* for being patient :)
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Postby Lilira » Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:54 pm

*grin* Its Saturday after all!! And there's... 13 hours of it left in my time zone! Patience is a virtue!

(Had this typed, forgot to hit send. *whistle*)
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Postby sok » Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:38 pm

marriage has killed my playing time. mudders stay away from the opposite sex. they are mudbanes. stay away from them. unless they mud of course then flock to them. flock, i say flock to them.
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Postby Ifin » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:02 pm

Saw the thread about whether evils and goodies should group again, and I remember this one.

Look at where we've come since then, the last outburst of players saying, "hey, we gotta change... something non-superficial".

Summer was seen as an "excuse" then, and it's come and gone. So was Tiamat, and like I thought, something like Tia will not consistently sustain activity in a way that we need.

2.0 might have slight increase in pbase, mainly from people curious which is good. But right now it's about timeline. If it comes in 1 month from now, or 6 months is a big difference to the remaining players.

A lot of suggestions have been put off as "band-aid fixes" until 2.0 comes, but these band-aids were already suggested months if not years back.

And again two points:
1) we are not cultivating and retaining true newbies that do check us out (empirically count how many true newbies stick around to 40+)
2) old players leave as they "beat the game" by finishing their characters off. or frustrated at rares situations or lack of activity.
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Postby Mirlantharn » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:17 am

There's been _so_ much effort for the past two years on getting high end zones into the game that the lower levels have been nearly neglected, and I think that's one reason that we're suffering so. New zones for the three _major_ groups of players of 1-20, 20-30, and 30-40 levels would spark more interest by new players. A dedication of old school players with low level alts to attempt those zones would keep new players around more. I myself will be (FINALLY!) rolling an alt at some point soon, so as to relive the fun of going slowly through the leveling and also the attempt at zoning with an underpowered player. I'll also be grouping with as much players as can be, and trying to pull in at _least_ one new player each time into those groups.

The merger of Homeland and Torilmud seems like it was a huge let-down for both muds. I am not saying that I am unappreciative of any staff members from either mud and their contributions, but rather it has the feeling that there have been been lost opportunities to making the mud better. From even before the rumors of the merger, I had stated to several people that the rich development of Homeland areas would be a great asset to Torilmud, as well as some of the more novel ideas, such as planewalkers and also the "character kits". Homeland code would have benefited from the effort of making stable Torilmud code. There's also a lot of excellent Torilmud zones to experience. Even if the new character classes and character kits were not introduced here, the areas would have definitely increased the interest and satisfaction of the mud as a whole, by itself. _Please_ bring in the small city that was just east of Waterdeep on Homeland, so that the players here can enjoy an instant gratisfication experience! This isn't saying that there are not great zones being created here from the former Torilmud area creators, it's just saying that we have 2 muds worth of areas that could be drawn upon. Let's use those!
So what if the Homeland zones were more difficult due to the different character classes available? Put them in as is and see what quirks and tricks our players can do to them. Isn't _any_ zone that has been placed upon Torilmud eventually been overcome more easily, due to our player's dedication and intelligence?

Yes, we need more coding updates, and we need them here on the mud, now. Something significant enough to keep players around, lest we have no players available for when Toril 2.0 comes into being. The longer the wait, the less players we'll have. We need something, and fast. And I'll argue that our coders are more than experienced enough for the challenge, whatever it is. But it has to be a significant update, to the current mud, to keep new and old players around.

I'd also like to thank role-play quest for their disruption of the quiesence of the mud. Without RPQ, there would be a lot less interest in the mud than what it has now.

Look, if I thought there was any lack of talent, of intelligence, and of skill, from _ANY_ of the staff from Homeland or Torilmud, I wouldn't still be playing on the mud nor commenting upon this BBS. Thank you, _everyone_ (even the players that will be flaming me for this post).

Humbly,
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Postby Mirlantharn » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:30 am

Oh, and by the by...

Multi-playing is _definitely_ not the best fix for the mud. Sure, it's a quick and simple fix, but only temporary. Essentially it is saying "I, the player, can be _tons_ more effective playing my alt character with a bot than any other player out there." It also detracts and strips away the fun of other players wanting to do a zone but not having any other alts or the mud clients capable of sustaining multiple characters simultaneously.

Yes, I myself have the desire to multi, especially some years back (no, I never did it here on Torilmud nor Homeland) when it was much more of an interest, but that tempers with insight. I'd rather have a group of buddies, and occassionally someone new to meet, than I would have a group of myself running around that essentially is myself with 4 or 5 bots playing for me.

Glad to be myself and myself only,
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Postby Tasan » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:04 am

Mirlantharn wrote:There's been _so_ much effort for the past two years on getting high end zones into the game that the lower levels have been nearly neglected, and I think that's one reason that we're suffering so.


Actually if you go back and look at the 2 year time period, there is a balance of zones for all levels... You may just hear about the high end zones more.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:37 am

I think that the pbase is stagnating because there's no progession anymore. just those die-hard people doing the same crap over and over again to max out x.alt

This attitude has pervaded the entire game, and forced many to quit. Its nearly impossible for both sides of the racewar to zone at once now. No one wants to hear it, but this place needs a pwipe and 2.0 put in to save it. I know how much I'd hate to lose my spanky eq but without the progession, there's no game.
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Postby Sarvis » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:07 pm

Nothing will really change though, everyone will just use the same tricks You know, I seem to remember when the MUD reopened after being shut down and maybe a month later people were doing zones already.

Face it, for the people that know the mud well getting to 50 will never be a problem, nor will any semblance of progression. The problem is the lack of new players, and the lack of anything interesting to do before level 46. Or atleast the perception that there is nothing interesting to do before then...
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Postby Corth » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:41 pm

The only thing that has a chance of helping with your pbase problems is a pwipe. You'll get an initial jolt of people coming back to re-level their char that way. For a few months, you will be able to keep your true noobs because they will have people to level with. If you schedule the pwipe to coincide with major changes to the mud, such as "Toril 2.0", then maybe it will feel more fresh.. like as if its a new and/or different mud.

Of course, the major goal is to change the trend from declining pbase to increasing pbase. This mud now has maybe a 30 player pbase. Its not the first time it was this low. But last time it was this low, it was a growing mud. Now its a declining mud. The trick is to figure out what it will take to make it into a growing mud again.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Jhorr » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:08 pm

Compromise:

1) Open 2.0 on a different port.
2) Allow veterans to import chars after attaining a certain level on 2.0.

I seem to remember we did that once before.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:14 pm

There's no casual content. I love WoW because I can do "zones" (technically the same zone for the past 6 months) or I can go do a 45 min or less zone. I do the big zones for gear for my guild, small zones to get potions and money. If this game had an economy aka a less retarded timesink, then you may have something.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Sarvis » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:35 pm

<b>Jhorr</b>

Interesting idea, I kind of like it.

<b>Dalar</b>

Definately. We really need stuff that is fun, but which people can do in an hour and/or is soloable.
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Postby ssar » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:42 pm

Jhorr wrote:Compromise:

1) Open 2.0 on a different port.
2) Allow veterans to import chars after attaining a certain level on 2.0.

I seem to remember we did that once before.


That sounds quite interesting..
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:20 am

Jhorr wrote:Compromise:
1) Open 2.0 on a different port.


This is something I've considered, but I worry about fracturing the pbase further with a division of that kind. I'd be interested to hear some more thoughts on it...
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:15 am

In my case, I'm considering just starting fresh anyway. Will be a better chance to learn the new system, and I'm not that high level anyway. Of course, I wouldn't mind keeping my eq...
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Postby Gormal » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:39 am

I don't like the idea of fracturing the pbase either. I think that what the game needs is a common reason for people to play here. I'm sure there are other ways to offer veterans incentive after a pwipe than seperate games.
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Postby Corth » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:10 am

Shevarash wrote:
Jhorr wrote:Compromise:
1) Open 2.0 on a different port.


This is something I've considered, but I worry about fracturing the pbase further with a division of that kind. I'd be interested to hear some more thoughts on it...


Bingo. Fracturing the pbase is bad, mkay?. Imagine what would have happened, for instance, if Miax had gone ahead with his version of sojourn a few years back when the pbase was around 100. You would be at around 15 now. Not sure whether Miax would have done any better.

Enough of the half assed solutions. If pwipe is what is needed, do it. If not, then don't. Just do something already.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Tasan » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:04 am

Corth wrote:Just do something already.


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"Shit or get off the pot!"
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:09 pm

You know, as for fracturing the pbase... they don't HAVE to keep the old version running to allow imports of old characters. Run only the 2.0 version, and once you get a character to 30 or so the natural way you can import and convert your old characters.
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Postby Corth » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:44 pm

Tasan wrote:
Corth wrote:Just do something already.


As my sister said to her brother as she dumped him this weekend:

"Shit or get off the pot!"


Uh-huh
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby moritheil » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:33 pm

Sarvis wrote:Nothing will really change though, everyone will just use the same tricks You know, I seem to remember when the MUD reopened after being shut down and maybe a month later people were doing zones already.

Face it, for the people that know the mud well getting to 50 will never be a problem, nor will any semblance of progression. The problem is the lack of new players, and the lack of anything interesting to do before level 46. Or atleast the perception that there is nothing interesting to do before then...


I think the point of updating the system to 2.0 is that those same old tricks will no longer exist. That said, you are totally right in saying that new players are essential.
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Postby Llaaldara » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:13 pm

One reason I stopped playing because I got tired of doing mindless Exp. Let me clarify that. Doing something to achieve what I already have, is mindless. Taking away what I achieved to do it again, is not giving me something NEW. A pwipe isn't going to change that. It just makes you do 49 more levels of the same crap, but this time under-geared and under-powered. It's like working your whole life and getting a lamborghini, and the bank takes it away, gives you a new job paying substantially less, and a Hugo, and says, "Start Over!"

Screw that.

Let's look at Major games right now and how they've handled it.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Guildwars. Provided expansion packs where each included new content and new classes. Did the desire to play the game more increase or decrease? Short term? Long Term?

In effect, Guildwars did basically what Toril has been doing for years; they provided new areas. Toril just hasn't added new classes (like we need more). So did new areas do the trick?

Short term? Yes.
Long term? No.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

World of Warcraft. Providing an expansion pack that includes additional levels on top of the current ones, plus new content, and new professions. Is their idea going to increase desire to play more or less? Short term? Long term?

Short term? ??
Long term? ??

We shall see I suppose.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Regardless, neither pwiped. Corth, you talk about dead horses, this is the oldest in the graveyard! I don't know of any major retail game that pwiped their pbase to increase desire to play it, but maybe you do? So why should the mud be any different?


All I know is this. I'd log in tonight, and play for 3-6 hours working on my 2 main drow chars to get them to 60 if there was 10 more levels to acquire, AND tomorrow and the next day, and the day after that, until I had achieved them if these additional levels meant something and were more then mindless exp grinding, and if there was a new aspect to the game. (Perhaps a mixture of kills and quests to achieve each.)

What if Toril added whole new areas to go with these additional levels, where if you didn't have the best of gear and the most capable of people, you'd constantly spank or have one hell of a heard time? (Yeah you'd have WoW, and you'd also have a lot of addicted players always logging in no doubt. aka problem solved)

But all this is moot, since the whole system is going to be changing to a different one. So unless 2.0 is going to allow character transfers over to the new system, and then provide additional levels and content, you're just going to have the same problems as a pwipe.
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:27 pm

Well, to talk out of both sides of my mouth...

<b>Mori</b>

Well, there will be relearning our classes to a certain extent... but what areas you level in and everything else will largely be the same. I can tell you right now the first thing I'll kill is a shady youth in WD, then SS, then that tree stump area by the ferry and BGR, then IC.

I'm sure someone who's made it past 40 can list stuff past that. :P

<b>Llaaldara</b>

I'd say 2.0 IS new content! I'm looking forward to starting over and trying out all the new stuff, and relearning my class and all that.

Other than that, I agree. We need more new content (like Dalar's casual content.) Perhaps with 2.0 they can introduce Prestige Classes every once in a while...

What about doing regions? Instead of just an area or two being added in, make a whole new section of the MUD with zones that encompass all levels. Maybe make travel between the regions difficult, so that there's some reason to just level new characters there rather than... bah... no, they did that with EM and it doesn't work well does it.

Hrm...
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Postby moritheil » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:49 pm

Sarvis wrote:Well, to talk out of both sides of my mouth...

<b>Mori</b>

Well, there will be relearning our classes to a certain extent... but what areas you level in and everything else will largely be the same. I can tell you right now the first thing I'll kill is a shady youth in WD, then SS, then that tree stump area by the ferry and BGR, then IC.

I'm sure someone who's made it past 40 can list stuff past that. :P


The thing is, that level routine is already out of date, at least enough to make it suboptimal. Okay, you can try to level that way. Shady youths were written out of the justice system, so that's fine. SS doesn't give great XP anymore due to the nerfing of card orc XP, but you'll still be able to level. If you had listed buffalos (which many people do instead of IC due to nearness) I'd be able to point out that animal XP was nerfed.

Sure, it's doable. It's just not efficient. By the same token, leveling in town (WD, BG, or DK) from 1-40 is in theory possible, but not efficient. If you want the efficient stuff, you have to learn new zones, because the old ones tend to get nerfed every few updates. Few if any people do HP XP runs or MS wizzie XP anymore. It's just not efficient compared to the other options.


Llaaldara,

I don't know if it's heretical to suggest this, but one thing I note from the expansions of commercial packages is the increased level cap. Duris has done that for years - once you hit 50 or so, you can quest to gain increased levels. Now, I don't suggest their quests, since those seem to be balanced only by the rarity of the loads. Instead I suggest an epic quest for each level, involving dozens of items, intricate plotlines, and potentially years for a casual gamer to complete.

Epic would then be the point of diminishing returns (much as it is in tabletop 3.5.) You can go past it if you wish, but you won't get nearly as much at each level gained as you would pre-epic (assuming epic spellcasting and skill checks are not implemented, and they should not be in order to keep the gameplay balanced under this proposed system.) You would just get a few extra hit points and slightly better saves. If that sounds dangerous, you can cap progression at 5-10 epic levels. Even hardcore gamers will need several months to finish a truly epic quest, so it would take several months per level, bare minimum.
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:57 pm

moritheil wrote:The thing is, that level routine is already out of date, at least enough to make it suboptimal. Okay, you can try to level that way. Shady youths were written out of the justice system, so that's fine.


Really? Nice... it always sucked when a guard walked in. :P

SS doesn't give great XP anymore due to the nerfing of card orc XP,


I was thinking of the worgs, actually. Even last time I played I didn't level in the actual village much... have worgs been nerfed with other animal xp?

but you'll still be able to level. If you had listed buffalos (which many people do instead of IC due to nearness) I'd be able to point out that animal XP was nerfed.


I remember doing those all the time back in the day, but that was even before the mud shut down. Last time I played fluffalos were good for a 2-3 person party. Well, maybe not good... but better than the alternatives. ;)

Sure, it's doable. It's just not efficient. By the same token, leveling in town (WD, BG, or DK) from 1-40 is in theory possible, but not efficient. If you want the efficient stuff, you have to learn new zones, because the old ones tend to get nerfed every few updates. Few if any people do HP XP runs or MS wizzie XP anymore. It's just not efficient compared to the other options.


I miss HP, I really liked that zone...
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:49 pm

moritheil wrote:Llaaldara,

I don't know if it's heretical to suggest this, but one thing I note from the expansions of commercial packages is the increased level cap. Duris has done that for years - once you hit 50 or so, you can quest to gain increased levels. Now, I don't suggest their quests, since those seem to be balanced only by the rarity of the loads. Instead I suggest an epic quest for each level, involving dozens of items, intricate plotlines, and potentially years for a casual gamer to complete.

Epic would then be the point of diminishing returns (much as it is in tabletop 3.5.) You can go past it if you wish, but you won't get nearly as much at each level gained as you would pre-epic (assuming epic spellcasting and skill checks are not implemented, and they should not be in order to keep the gameplay balanced under this proposed system.) You would just get a few extra hit points and slightly better saves. If that sounds dangerous, you can cap progression at 5-10 epic levels. Even hardcore gamers will need several months to finish a truly epic quest, so it would take several months per level, bare minimum.


I really like those concepts, and it appears I'm not the only one. Diminishing returns combined with extremely hard to achieve levels in the first place, absolutely!

One of the things I've always enjoyed were long and intensive quest chains. Hello Lich quest! (It wasn't handed to me, I had to figure that one out myself, and boy did it keep me glued to the MUD for 6 months!)
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Postby Kegor » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:21 pm

As I have stated many times in the past, I have always thought that a more steady stream of area creation would maintain a much more solid pbase. Shevy and the coding sphere has done an excellent job in past years improving things, and continue to do so now with the construction of 2.0. So that was not the problem. If 2.0 does have a significant impact to rebuild the damage done to lost interest of old players, and attract new ones, like it should, I really hope to see the areas sphere step it up a notch or two to bring more constant areas additions to keep people interested.
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Postby Lilira » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:24 pm

Anyone can try and write a zone.
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Postby Gormal » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:46 pm

Pretty sure that Jaznolg has written a zone, dear:P
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:59 pm

Writing a zone takes time, writing a good zone takes more time. To keep a steady influx of zones, we'd need a lot of people working on them.
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Postby Tasan » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:16 am

Not to mention a LOT more robust system for creation *cough*OLC*cough*.
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Postby Yarash » Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:58 am

I see a lot of suggestions for fixing the pbase. MOST of these ideas have been done already within the last year or two. There are also people saying "we need X, Y, Z" when we already have it; there are clearly plenty of "experienced" players who are in a rut and never explore.

I just don't think it's realistic to look back ten years and think that can happen again.

I think the game should be developed for the players who are around now. The things they want should be the goal of any developer. Trying to guess what will bring in a flood of players is just silly.

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Postby Lilira » Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:01 am

Gormal wrote:Pretty sure that Jaznolg has written a zone, dear:P


That wasn't aimed at Jaz, it was aimed at anyone who agrees with him, but hasn't... dear. *wink* *grin*
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Postby Mirlantharn » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:28 am

One thing that I had suggested a LONG while ago was "more areas"... However, I suggested a caveat, and although we got the areas the caveat was never done. What happened then? We got a new area every couple months, but that was just in time for the zone moguls to have figured out the last one and gotten bored with it, every time.

The suggestions have been "expansion packs" and new areas.

My suggestion so long ago was to give us new areas, but not just one at a time. In effect, an "expansion pack" of part of an entire continent.
It's been done on every MMORG product of the past few years, and their numbers don't seem to be decreasing.

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