good vs evil

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
flib
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good vs evil

Postby flib » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:42 am

so i've played both sides pretty extensively and have seen a decided trend. good players are just not as welcoming or nice as evils.. theres a few exception but it's pretty much a trend I think alot of people can verify and just wonder what's up with this heh.. if people dont stick it's cuz they pick a good side character talk to people and get ignored or told off.. this with alot of other stuff is hurting the mud and ya toril 2.0 is gonna be awesome in the game side of stuff but if the new influx of people that do come in get treated like crud they aint gonna stick and itll be just us again. so be nicer goodies :P sheesh.
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Postby Ambar » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:19 am

Evils are just kissing ass to get more new players :P (of course I am kidding)

Do realize tho that the current pbase consists of people who play BOTH sides. Years ago i could say I was an EVIL with a few goodie chars, but these days noone really stays with evil or goodie, we have both. It's kind of like saying Virginia drivers suck in the area I live, when this area is comprosed of people from all walks of life's horrible drivers (so blame the WHOLE United States :P)
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Postby Latreg » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:43 am

I don't know about treated like crud, but a low level player or a new one seems to get more and easier attention from evils, generally speaking. And yes Virginia drivers suck! ;)
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Postby fobble » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:04 pm

roll a human!
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Postby Gormal » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:53 pm

Ambar wrote:Evils are just kissing ass to get more new players :P (of course I am kidding)


Ambar lands a mighty pound on a rusted nail! (sans kidding)
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Re: good vs evil

Postby Arcelian » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:11 pm

flib wrote:so i've played both sides pretty extensively and have seen a decided trend. good players are just not as welcoming or nice as evils.. theres a few exception but it's pretty much a trend I think alot of people can verify and just wonder what's up with this heh.. if people dont stick it's cuz they pick a good side character talk to people and get ignored or told off.. this with alot of other stuff is hurting the mud and ya toril 2.0 is gonna be awesome in the game side of stuff but if the new influx of people that do come in get treated like crud they aint gonna stick and itll be just us again. so be nicer goodies :P sheesh.


I just started here about two weeks ago and I can honestly say I've never been told off or treated like crud. Ignored? Perhaps.

Players are very helpful in some aspects, always willing to hand out the eq. However, most don't want to group with me, I guess because lack of experience. *shrug* I don't see why, it doesn't take a genius or a seasoned veteran to exp.

There are a rare few (Ex:Inama) that go out of their way to help newer players learn, however most experienced players if they are 46+ just want to zone and if they are sub 46 they want to solo their way up or use two man groups with people of like skill as them, to gain exp. Why take a nooblet with them when it just adds unneccesary risk and no reward?

Being an A-P, I've exped with evils a lot, and they seem to be the exact opposite of the good aligned players. They don't hand out equipment, but they are much more interested in grouping and making new friends.

Over all, I wouldn't say the pbase is unwelcoming, but it definitely filters out the non-determined newbies. My suggestion: Share the exp. :)
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Postby Gormal » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:52 pm

Part of the problem is that antipaladins aren't really great for anything. Why bring a tank who can't use his niche skills and reliably bash at the same time? I hate to break it to you, but you picked a sub-uber class. Strive to make the most of it though and you'll find that you get plenty of groups, and even the mid levels are hard for us too:P
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Postby Arcelian » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:18 pm

Gormal wrote:Part of the problem is that antipaladins aren't really great for anything. Why bring a tank who can't use his niche skills and reliably bash at the same time? I hate to break it to you, but you picked a sub-uber class. Strive to make the most of it though and you'll find that you get plenty of groups, and even the mid levels are hard for us too:P


With all due respect, most exp zones for my level range do not require bashing. If they did, I'd switch to a shield and then I _can_ bash reliably.

The explanation you provided would make sense if we were talking about zoning for eq, but my post was concerning experience and leveling.

The anti-paladin class is more for flavor than functionality, I understand that completely.....

But I have a difficult time believing that they don't function well enough to kill exp mobs. I doubt my class is the root of the problem, or even part of it.
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Postby Gormal » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:45 pm

You are a class that specializes in 2handed combat, warriors tank better and bash better all around. Your mount also causes problems too... all in all antipaladins are not as good as a warrior except for your heal sword. Take away DK and AP's are nothing. ( I have one too) People are in the habit of looking for what they want, not what they can use. You gotta lead if you want exp pretty much every time imo. Sucks I know:(
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Postby sok » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:34 am

say you are gormal's alt and threathen to never take them goatherding if they dont group you
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:02 am

Play whatever you want. In these days of barely-double-digit pbase, leaders starve for tanks.
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Postby kiryan » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:30 am

you might say that most of the people who played evil for fun stayed evil and are by definition nice.

you might also say that most of those people who played for power gaming or to be elite moved on to the side capable of playing the elite/power gaming game.

or you might just say that the casual gamers are dropping off leaving you more asshole per capita.

There is a lot of value in being nice... A personal connection to other players goes a lot farther than anything I've seen. If you want this mud to grow you need to tell people about the game and teach and recruit them. go forth and make disciples of all nations
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Postby Tasan » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:29 am

kiryan wrote:or you might just say that the casual gamers are dropping off leaving you more asshole per capita.


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Re: good vs evil

Postby Yarash » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:02 am

Arcelian wrote:...I've exped with evils a lot, and they seem to be the exact opposite of the good aligned players. They don't hand out equipment...

I'd like to point something out. Goodrace players zone more, and have a lot more eq lying around. Besides, I've seen plenty of generous evilrace characters. They may not have as much, but give freely of what they have to those in need.

- Mike
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Postby Minofagal » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:48 am

Arcelian wrote:
...I've exped with evils a lot, and they seem to be the exact opposite of the good aligned players. They don't hand out equipment...

I'd like to point something out. Goodrace players zone more, and have a lot more eq lying around. Besides, I've seen plenty of generous evilrace characters. They may not have as much, but give freely of what they have to those in need.

- Mike


I totally agree with Yarash here. Seeing as how I started playing here with an evil (all be it when the pbase in general was a little bigger), I got a lot of help from the evils.[/quote]
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Re: good vs evil

Postby Arcelian » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:32 am

Yarash wrote:
Arcelian wrote:...I've exped with evils a lot, and they seem to be the exact opposite of the good aligned players. They don't hand out equipment...

I'd like to point something out. Goodrace players zone more, and have a lot more eq lying around. Besides, I've seen plenty of generous evilrace characters. They may not have as much, but give freely of what they have to those in need.

- Mike


I didn't mean it in a bad way, I'd much rather have someone to exp with and to chat with than someone who is going to give me some eq then go solo their own exp :P
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Postby Elet » Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:15 am

well to tell you the truth.. atm both side are good to play.. if you wanna go for eq wise i suggest start a neutral char ie neutral human..

i was lucky when i start playing the pbase is bigger than current one. for now i have lots of good friends on both side. well i dont know bout them but i love hanging around with em alot :)

p/s: (botef=wotak)<n00bl3t :P
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Re: good vs evil

Postby Disoputlip » Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:04 am

Arcelian wrote:Being an A-P, I've exped with evils a lot, and they seem to be the exact opposite of the good aligned players. They don't hand out equipment, but they are much more interested in grouping and making new friends.


I have seen the same pattern. I don't think good race players are more n00b unfriendly.

But... I myself does the same thing. I kindly leave from an xp group where xp basically is non-existant because of the way group is made up. On the other hand, I don't mind taking a new player that has a class that would offer good xp (eg. invoker and cleric for smoke xp).

If a new player should roll a char I would suggest troll warrior right now. Mabye you wont make it to 50. but even on low levels people want to group with you, you feel powerful, and if nothing else then you solo really well. Fun starter class, with potential. The suggestion has nothing to do with good race/evil race, it is just the class itself that rocks.
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Postby Arcelian » Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:42 pm

Troll warriors are a very potent class/race combo.....but I guess that's also why they are a dime a dozen.
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Postby Gizep » Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:52 am

I'll tell ya this much, i played good for 5 years and never got any help at all. Well, aside from Nilan, Ragorn and Dayn. Then I ran into Urgle and Ssyslisk (aka Rapor/Gindipple) these guys were the nicest people I ever met on toril. And guess what, they played primarily evil. I spent the better part of 1995-1999 killing the same 2 mobs and buying stuff from the trade board. Alot of money doing traveling merchants, cough.

Anyway, since they convinced me to go evil, I got my first 40+ in 2 weeks and had a ton more on hand cash. Back then a set of pbone and some bloodstone equipment were a tight hookup for someone like me. I think newbies these days are really spoiled. Maybe they just don't have the conviction we had, or maybe our pbase is hurting so much we push alot more people through so they can fill the roles we need.

Hell solak was following Afu around at level 1 and beat gizep to 50, damn man that guy loves to play. I think these days, if you get enough exposure to both sides you will find that you probably get equal treatment, at least from me. Hell, a few months there, i was buying everything on auction and handing it out in scardale, and didnt tell that many of them who i was, cuz i really just want people to have a good experience here.

And I'll make one more point from my experience here, it's more of a stereotype, but its true for the most part. Evils are nice and Goodies are mean. Sure there's some who cross the line on bothsides, meaning mean evils and nice goodies, but generally thats been my experience here, but it's a 10+ year journey for me and I've known alot of people.

For the most part, i treasure every moment i play here ** tear rolls down my cheek **

Thanks for keeping my favorite mud alive guys, as long as we make double digits we can still zone bitches.
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Postby malakwee » Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:15 pm

a majority of time, people's attitute correlates directly to the surrounding in which they are accustomed to.

if u have many friends who are nice, those nice things on many cases will rub off... if u have many stuck up sorta friends, chances are u might end up acting kinda stuck up a lot of times as well... the word is 'conformance'.

as for those influencers of the mud (i.e. leaders), deeds are best example, period. if ya want the peeps around u to not be elitist, stop being one. Be civil and respectful for a change, to nooblets... to each other.

cheers
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Postby Botef » Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:44 pm

Differences as I see them:

Goodies make fun of eachother alot, and sometimes it can seem a little harsh. Its all in good fun, but for someone new it can seem like a personal attack when it really isnt, and for the unacustom it can be a little raw. It grows on you though, and you eventually will feel comfortable poking fun at just about anyone. In addition, with a stronger and more active pbase there seems to be a bit of a cliq -not in the sense that they don't let other people do stuff with them, but in the sense that the people who are known and play get first priority in zone groups...Nothing wrong with this by anymeans. Goodies have less time on the whole to xp because they zone more, which seems to make xp groups a bit harder to get into because maximizing xp is more important.

Evils are on the whole a bit more friendly because they don't often rag on eachother with jokes, etc nearly to the degree goodies seem to (In groups, assoc is different)....They zone less currently because of the smaller player pool -and thus take anyone willing and able when the opportunity arrises. They also have a lot more free time (XP Time) so people are hardly ever declined for XP.

From one side of the fence the other side often seems dramatically different, and even when you first wet your feet on the other side it can still seem that way...But personally both sides are great and anymore the hardcore sense of seperation there used to be gets in the way of people having a good time rather than being the competitive 'push' it used to be.

I think alot of the preceived differences can be summed up as the effect of the difference in pbase on either side. Goodies zone alot, and take jokes and humor at the expense of someones death well. Evils zone less, and those kind of jokes can be discouraging and not as well received. If both sides had an abundent and consistent pbase I think this would change dramatically. The days of picking a racial side and bocotting the other doesn't fit the bill like it once did, for better or worse.

/Rambling
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Postby ssar » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:43 am

Botef wrote:
Goodies make fun of eachother alot, and sometimes it can seem a little harsh. Its all in good fun, but for someone new it can seem like a personal attack when it really isnt, and for the unacustom it can be a little raw. It grows on you though, and you eventually will feel comfortable poking fun at just about anyone.



Gormal started it!
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Postby loshaenar » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:59 am

rp an australian.

you're insults are funnier, and most of the mum calls thrown at you will be true :P
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Postby Gruy » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:39 am

i think its more of a phase than anything.. when i returned here after like 4 years off to play i was greeted warmly by goodies.. tho it may have been cause i quickly made contact with those old names i recognised. of all the goodies who helped me when i came back most have retired or moved on to better things.. some who are left still do just that.. help new and or returning players. some of these people were:

Lilithelle and SOI
Daniv and NS
Torkur and Osheara
Glandriel and RM

when i went to play with evils i had the same sort of reception which for the most part continues to this day ppl are generally nice and usually when they are around are willing to help or zone or whatever. evils who helped me were ppl like:

Tssassop and almost everyone in HoD
Nilan
Akur
Zoominixxar and MO

shrugs not sure that its that either side is nice or mean or gives gear or doesnt.. i think its more who you make an effort to meet, fit in with, and hang out with regularly..
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Postby Latreg » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:58 pm

Botef wrote:Differences as I see them:

Goodies make fun of eachother alot, and sometimes it can seem a little harsh. Its all in good fun, but for someone new it can seem like a personal attack when it really isnt, and for the unacustom it can be a little raw. It grows on you though, and you eventually will feel comfortable poking fun at just about anyone.

Evils are on the whole a bit more friendly because they don't often rag on eachother with jokes, etc nearly to the degree goodies seem to (In groups, assoc is different./Rambling


This mainly applies to (in no particular order) Pril,Teba,Gormal and Maxler and or their evil alts ;) they get the most crap said to them, not really sure why or how it came about but it happens and they take it all in stride. Pril and Teba really are decent fellows, and the both swing both ways (race wise) :) I haven't grouped with Gormal or Maxler in a long time, that I know of anyway, but I don't recall anything bad about them or anyone for that matter. Just remember real life happens.
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Postby Yasden » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:40 pm

Good to see people are still following my example and the example we set as evils years ago.

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Postby sok » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:01 pm

we will follow your bread truck anywhere
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Postby Sarell » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:15 am

Maxler has like 20 goodies and 30 evils. If you can avoid them all, I know it sounds hard, your stay will be enjoyable. If you do happen to bump into one, it will probably still be enjoyable once you get into it in a wierd erotic way that you never thought you were the kind of person who would be into such filth.

Most evils are AFK so they seem nicer. Your dealing with a bunch of people who sit in front of computers pretending they are elves, don't trust any of them period. Especially not the ones that pretend they are girl elves. If they are being nice to you, ungroup, do you really want to make friends with people who pretend they are girl elves for longer periods of time that their full time jobs? I didn't think so.

On a more serious note, I think most people on toril are great, by far the best internet community going around I've ever seen. An older more mature bunch of players I guess. Occasionaly you get one bad egg, and that can spoil the whole batch for you, I know it does for me, but move on, most people are great fun to have about, I can't think of anyone I wouldn't share a zone with... especially Maxler TOUCH TOUCH TOUCH
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Postby Elet » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:18 am

well maxler is great coz he built kompewters :P


ph33r the n00bl3t powah!
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Postby Teralyn » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:53 am

Well I recently moved to the 'dark side' and I must say. I like it very much. Much more then when I tried it a while ago. I don't think that either side is nicer then the other, but the goodies always seemed to have such a higher pbase that if you did run into a goodie that was a prick....oh well. There were 50 other goodies that probably weren't. As long as I've been playing here, the evils have always had this motto of being as*holes...they all are full of sh*t. Everyone has been very welcoming and warm towards me, even when they found out that I'm normally an elf...=P So basically, thanks everyone for keeping Toril a welcoming and wonderful place to play and lose yourself, not matter what side you play on. And Thanks to the Imms as well, we couldn't be here if it wasn't for you guys. You all rock!

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Postby Gormal » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:50 am

Yasden wrote:Good to see people are still following my example and the example we set as evils years ago.

-Targsk (aka Targsky Claus)



You're such a trend-setter, Ryan! If it wasn't for you, no one would ever help new players or give equipment out ever! *rofl* This is your most egotistical and senseless post to date!
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:49 am

Gormal wrote:
Yasden wrote:Good to see people are still following my example and the example we set as evils years ago.

-Targsk (aka Targsky Claus)



You're such a trend-setter, Ryan! If it wasn't for you, no one would ever help new players or give equipment out ever! *rofl* This is your most egotistical and senseless post to date!


Aww come on Gormal, let the guy be proud of the one and only game he will ever play for the rest of his natural life.
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Postby Sarell » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:36 am

Llaaldara wrote:
Gormal wrote:
Yasden wrote:Good to see people are still following my example and the example we set as evils years ago.

-Targsk (aka Targsky Claus)



You're such a trend-setter, Ryan! If it wasn't for you, no one would ever help new players or give equipment out ever! *rofl* This is your most egotistical and senseless post to date!


Aww come on Gormal, let the guy be proud of the one and only game he will ever play for the rest of his natural life.



Egads, turns out 'evils' are pretty mean aswell afterall :P
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:00 pm

Sarell wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:
Gormal wrote:
Yasden wrote:Good to see people are still following my example and the example we set as evils years ago.

-Targsk (aka Targsky Claus)



You're such a trend-setter, Ryan! If it wasn't for you, no one would ever help new players or give equipment out ever! *rofl* This is your most egotistical and senseless post to date!


Aww come on Gormal, let the guy be proud of the one and only game he will ever play for the rest of his natural life.



Egads, turns out 'evils' are pretty mean aswell afterall :P


Baseless attacks ftw?
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Postby Gormal » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:23 pm

This is supposed to be a Yasden hate-target thread right? *touch ryan*
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Postby Yasden » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:27 pm

Guess so. Not sure how I was being egotistical, though.

I was only trying to point out that on Soj1, we tried to set an example for all new evils by helping out and donating what we could to "the cause", as that's what it was then. Trolls and ogres only for the longest time, doing stuff via tactics (glance bash ftw), and becoming better players on our own in a fledgling community. We lived, xped, and did eq in Ghore, Faang, and Bloodstone, because that's all the resources we had available to us until the addition of duergars, and outcasting.

As leader of OD, I tried to promote that same general good will by doing "Targsky Claus", spending stupid amounts of guild plat to eq the lesser-fortunate members. I also tried to encourage the more experienced players to help out the new members with their class, like small xp/eq groups to promote bonding.

I never "started" that example, I only tried to perpetuate it throughout the population. Seems like it worked to an extent. Sorry if that makes me egotistical.

Llaal, this may be the only online RPG I've played, but this game has lasted longer than all the graphical ones you've played to date. I play for free, how much money have you blown now on software and monthly fees?

To both of you: when's the last time you helped anyone out in your assoc, or evils in general?

Sorry for trying to make the game a welcoming place.
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Why Nerox is jealous of me:



Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'

Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:52 pm

Just razzing you, Ryan.

We all had our mentors growing up in the game, and its an essential part of learning to play here. Fayren took me aside one day for hours and taught me a ton of clerical stuff once I got full heal. Varia helped me with all of my triggers, and good ol' Mplor and Touk took me to strubs and taught me how to single file combat and Mplor posed combat theory questions!

Toddrick gave me mace and skull platemail when I was a wee cleric on Toril, oh man was I happy... almost as happy as when I found a pair of tit rings on the ground and traded them for a pair of dbone bracelets. Level 12 newbie monk with sick 2/2 wristwear! (Going evil was a pain from 1k)
Yasden
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Postby Yasden » Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:12 pm

Mplor's the only person to have ever soloed Kost. Mob drowning ftw.

My first mentor was probably Serro. He's the one who convinced me to delete my barb shaman Raskan and play in Ghore, since he'd just got sethome there (right when it was decided the "racewars" would begin). We learned the joint, he showed me the beauty of regen, of uber tanking, and how to kill the lizardmen with a stick of chewing gum, a leech, and 13 crusty boogers. Kidding on the last one. :P

I didn't really have any evil mentors after that, unless you count Lavey showing me the monk ropes.

I do, however, have a lot of memories of people whom I associated with over the years from both sides that really made a significant impact on my mudding career.
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Why Nerox is jealous of me:



Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'

Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
Llaaldara
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Location: Dobluth Kyor

Postby Llaaldara » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:05 pm

Sarell wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:
Gormal wrote:
Yasden wrote:Good to see people are still following my example and the example we set as evils years ago.

-Targsk (aka Targsky Claus)



You're such a trend-setter, Ryan! If it wasn't for you, no one would ever help new players or give equipment out ever! *rofl* This is your most egotistical and senseless post to date!


Aww come on Gormal, let the guy be proud of the one and only game he will ever play for the rest of his natural life.



Egads, turns out 'evils' are pretty mean aswell afterall :P


Oh Shush :P

It's a trade off. Targsky uses the CBJ joke, and I razz him about only playing Toril.

Fair is fair.

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