Necromancers Feedback and thoughts.

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Ubek
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Necromancers Feedback and thoughts.

Postby Ubek » Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:52 pm

I make this suggestion for 2 reasons, mostly lazyness, but siglhtly more convinient zoning for us Necros.

1. Necro vendor that sells Corpses. The prices need to be fairly high but not outrageous. Making my initial pet is typically incovient and a time sink, I'm willing to trade plat to remove this time sink.

2. Multiple corpse type. For example a charred corpse that comes with innate portection from fire. Or corpse wrapped in fish netting, innate water breathing(I haven't been to a water zone recently, I can't remember if necro pets survive there). etc. We don't need one more quest spell, or one more type of spell. Just abit of variety.

3. Undead mounts. Damn it, I want an undead mount. I am willing to purchase from a vendor =) (Yes, I do have fly gear, and yes, its for the novelty aspect nothing more)

4. Being able to tell when buff spells such as protection from cold/pfu, haste and protect undead expire from pets would be nice.

I quit playing Ubek just after the intial changes, I must say, they were developed into a solid class, I can now appreciate. The reduction of lag, the removal of hitall and the queuing of commands by pets are 3 of my top frustrations that were dealt with. Life walk was definitely my most desired request. Alas, If only I could look in on my target before I Life walk to them ... =)
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Re: Necromancers Feedback and thoughts.

Postby Birile » Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:25 pm

Ubek wrote:I make this suggestion for 2 reasons, mostly lazyness, but siglhtly more convinient zoning for us Necros.

1. Necro vendor that sells Corpses. The prices need to be fairly high but not outrageous. Making my initial pet is typically incovient and a time sink, I'm willing to trade plat to remove this time sink.

2. Multiple corpse type. For example a charred corpse that comes with innate portection from fire. Or corpse wrapped in fish netting, innate water breathing(I haven't been to a water zone recently, I can't remember if necro pets survive there). etc. We don't need one more quest spell, or one more type of spell. Just abit of variety.

3. Undead mounts. Damn it, I want an undead mount. I am willing to purchase from a vendor =) (Yes, I do have fly gear, and yes, its for the novelty aspect nothing more)

4. Being able to tell when buff spells such as protection from cold/pfu, haste and protect undead expire from pets would be nice.

I quit playing Ubek just after the intial changes, I must say, they were developed into a solid class, I can now appreciate. The reduction of lag, the removal of hitall and the queuing of commands by pets are 3 of my top frustrations that were dealt with. Life walk was definitely my most desired request. Alas, If only I could look in on my target before I Life walk to them ... =)


I think any sort of upgrade to our pets isn't necessary, and the idea of a shop of smelly corpses is just plain nasty!

But suggestion #4 would be nice, and would help other pet classes as well. *nod me*
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Postby Latreg » Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:09 pm

interesting ideas, pre pressed corpses, just a different kind of spell component really. animate failed res pc corpses....mmmm fun
but yeah you start out on level 2 in cm as an example raise some dead, go down raise bigger ones, until you get ones that are more your level. It is a time sink really, maybe they could be raised to the level of the caster, something like the shaman/ele pets, and some of those items that summon pets....
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:17 pm

1 corpse vendor sounds nice. Trouble is it would have to be relatively offset in location. I imagine WD and other towns wouldn't want some seemingly shady or crazed undertaker vending cadavers anywhere near their locale. Very nice for RP too.

2 I'm not sure about the prots for pets. It would be for RP mainly, since some prots eq is really easy and disposable

3 maybe just create a spell. Undead mount. That way pets could use. Corp pets do suck mightily when needing to walk a great ways. Levitate doesn't really cut it.

4 pfu/pfc is definitely in need of a glance and room echo. X seems more vulnerable to cold. etc.
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Postby Lilira » Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:06 pm

Instead of a shop.. how about an area in the cemetary where there's corpses. Only problem I forsee in WD is how to get them outta town without animating them.. but digging up corpses from a cemetary makes sense to me!
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You group-say 'my chars will carry the component on them if I can.'
Inama group-says 'hopefully they'll have some sort of volume discounts on ress items for people like you'
You group-say 'oh? Ya think? *giggle*'
Inama group-says 'they could at least implement frequent dier miles'

Suzalize group-says 'oh, eya's over weight i bet'
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Re: Necromancers Feedback and thoughts.

Postby Botef » Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:19 pm

Ubek wrote:I make this suggestion for 2 reasons, mostly lazyness, but siglhtly more convinient zoning for us Necros.

1. Necro vendor that sells Corpses. The prices need to be fairly high but not outrageous. Making my initial pet is typically incovient and a time sink, I'm willing to trade plat to remove this time sink.

2. Multiple corpse type. For example a charred corpse that comes with innate portection from fire. Or corpse wrapped in fish netting, innate water breathing(I haven't been to a water zone recently, I can't remember if necro pets survive there). etc. We don't need one more quest spell, or one more type of spell. Just abit of variety.

3. Undead mounts. Damn it, I want an undead mount. I am willing to purchase from a vendor =) (Yes, I do have fly gear, and yes, its for the novelty aspect nothing more)

4. Being able to tell when buff spells such as protection from cold/pfu, haste and protect undead expire from pets would be nice.

I quit playing Ubek just after the intial changes, I must say, they were developed into a solid class, I can now appreciate. The reduction of lag, the removal of hitall and the queuing of commands by pets are 3 of my top frustrations that were dealt with. Life walk was definitely my most desired request. Alas, If only I could look in on my target before I Life walk to them ... =)


No need for a corpse vendor, can get them plenty easy...most wight-able mobs die in one or two boneshatters.

Prots can be managed with equipment, and wraithform pets don't need anything to survive other than PFF on FP, and there is eq to cover that.

Undead mounts is a great idea IMO but maybe not as a specific infinite type spell. I think killing a mount and then raising it as a pet should produce a 'mount' pet of the type of animate spell you cast...for example, smiting one of the millions of nightmares sitting around in VT and raising it as a skele, spectre, whatever and it being a mountable pet...Could even take up undead points for all I care.

Glancing mobs to know when pfu, etc is not really that big of deal IMO...Its like armor or haste. Not to say I wouldn't love having pets tell me when spells fall or being able to glance them...But that can easily be accomendated with some good timer triggers and rewards a player for being familiar with their class in that respect...Its good to take the time to know how long they last for your particlarly character.

Digging up corpses in a cemetary is a nifty idea, and since the mobs would only be usable for flesh pets not overpowering at all. Could even be cool if you could bury corpses as well, and come dig them up later so people don't steal them...Geocaches nudge nudge.
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Postby Lilira » Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:20 pm

Raising mounts as SOLID undead should have a mount affect.

As for "Killing wight mobs with a couple of boneshatters". Kinda hard if you're not there yet.
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You group-say 'my chars will carry the component on them if I can.'
Inama group-says 'hopefully they'll have some sort of volume discounts on ress items for people like you'
You group-say 'oh? Ya think? *giggle*'
Inama group-says 'they could at least implement frequent dier miles'

Suzalize group-says 'oh, eya's over weight i bet'
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Postby Botef » Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:37 pm

Lilira wrote:Raising mounts as SOLID undead should have a mount affect.

As for "Killing wight mobs with a couple of boneshatters". Kinda hard if you're not there yet.


Goes for just about any level really unless your trying to solo a mob to raise your highest circle pet. Your first pet need only tank long enough to smite what you do need...
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Postby Lilira » Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:45 pm

Oh I agree.. its pretty much just gotten to a point where I save EVERYTHING I kill and pres it to death. (Blade embalms) Then I stash them and have a stack to raise later.

Only time that sucks is right after a reboot.
~\o--Lilira Shadowlyre--o/~

You group-say 'my chars will carry the component on them if I can.'
Inama group-says 'hopefully they'll have some sort of volume discounts on ress items for people like you'
You group-say 'oh? Ya think? *giggle*'
Inama group-says 'they could at least implement frequent dier miles'

Suzalize group-says 'oh, eya's over weight i bet'
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Postby Ubek » Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:14 pm

1. Lets say I'm on my way to do a zone. I could one, raise a corpse and take the pets with me or I could always just wait for the first series of mobs to die and catch up. Either way works, I'm not complaining, I'm just saying I want an alternative and I don't think it would be anymore more than an alternate way of getting a corpses. This was not intended as a rant against raising the dead more as a pro-lazy necro willing to buy his way into power!!! Yes, its different, but if it cost me 100 p per level 45 soul bound corpse or 500 p for one I could carry in my inventory(or an item with charges), I'd you know, stack a couple and use as needed in the event I feel less than motivated to tank or steal(see #5) for a corpse!!! (Right now, I found a lovely way, and that's to bum a corpse of a troll warrior.. They happily kill em for me which I do appreciate but this won't last forever)


2. Knowledge is power, and I feel powerless.

3. Vote yes for #3 cause this has cool factor all over it and chicks dig guys riding undead mounts :) There's a reason to implement undead mounts.

4. The reason I suggested this wasn't my inability to manage such a thing but that its one of those things that I always wondered why they just didn't tell us. I mean what does it really matter if we have a way of checking or not? Now basically all I do is have my pet PFU and haste b4 each fight. Every other fight about 50% of the way through it, I cast it myself. It certainly has minimal impact on whether or not I win most fights, because I usually pick the fights I know I can to begin with.

5. I added #5 because it is a great idea all by itself(Lilira). The idea of stealing corpses from a grave yard would be awesome.
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Postby Drache » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:31 am

Lilira wrote:Instead of a shop.. how about an area in the cemetary where there's corpses. Only problem I forsee in WD is how to get them outta town without animating them.. but digging up corpses from a cemetary makes sense to me!


And have % chance an alarm goes off where guards attack you for your nasty act :)
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Re: Necromancers Feedback and thoughts.

Postby Drache » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:34 am

Botef wrote:
Glancing mobs to know when pfu, etc is not really that big of deal IMO...Its like armor or haste. Not to say I wouldn't love having pets tell me when spells fall or being able to glance them...

I always wondered about that. How can you not see Bands of Armor that form around you as described by armor spell 'n so forth
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Postby Drache » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:39 am

And for myself, undead pets run out of moves way way too quickly. It's frustrating. Moving them through the mountains is !fun. I wish their undead-ness would be reflected in move consumption. Undead never tire :(
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Postby Ashiwi » Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:01 am

Actually, I find the idea of a shop or shopkeeper of sorts where you can buy undead rather intriguing. Bodysnatching was quite a lucrative career throughout the ages.
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:57 am

Hm, could actually have a theme with it. A rogue cleric that is supposedly treating the higher level ill patients. You bribe him and finish these sick guys off. The higher their level, the more the bribe to the cleric.
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Postby kiryan » Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:36 am

I hate playing my necro when the mud is booting often. It takes 20-30 minutes to get your pets up between killing for low level pets then killing/pressing high level pets. This is before you consider that if your planning on doing something extended, like exping for several hours, you also want to make 6-10 back up corpses. Then it reboots and all your pets, all your pressed corpses POOF.

I suggested before that a spell be created that would allow you to transform a preserved and soul bound corpse into a rentable object you could pick up. I would prefer this kind of a solution over a "shop" because of the corpse levels and types (and not having to go to a specific place to get pets).
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Postby Ashiwi » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:03 pm

Kind of like one of those little expanding sponge toys? Drop it in water and instant Frankenstein monster?
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Postby Masrick » Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:09 am

So...like uhhmn..these are awesome ideas!
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Postby loshaenar » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:12 am

having no damage at 8th sphere..

then 3 damage spells at 9th with all the quest spells..

and then 4 damage spells at 10th....



yeah... makes about as much sense as 100+ hour uptimes..



love the class, xp table has proved to be no hassle etc... but lack of thought in that 8th sphere is really annoying... other mage classes have made similar complaints...

food for thought..

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Postby Masrick » Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:46 am

I can't figure out why Rain of Blood was removed from 8th Circle, I guess maybe the damage was increased as well. But it now comepetes against Banshee Wail which is a much better spell for most situations.

Alone I mem:

10th: Bone.
9th: Abi dalzimz
8th: Contagion


In group/Zone:

10th Banshee wail
9th Either Abi or globe depending.
8th Contag or blackmantle and 1 soul shackle maybe.

As far as 7th circle goes, I wouldn't mind seeing Corpse Glamor at a lower less important circle(2rd/4th) so I could atleast keep a few memmed so it'd be abit more useful during zoneing(usually have fly or lev on at all times).

In the end, even with Soul shackle, I tend to slow down zone groups or have to catch up later(this is differnet than a simple memming out issue)

So I said all that just to point out that I agree with loshaenar comments about the grouping of our spells at the higher circles.
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Postby Ambar » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:29 am

Masrick wrote:In the end, even with Soul shackle, I tend to slow down zone groups or have to catch up later(this is differnet than a simple memming out issue)


My necro isnt very high level, but I have grouped with LOTS of necro and lich, and never see them falling behind, maybe they have to abort their memming (losing maybe ONE spell or two) .. I'm wondering if it is a prioritize issue, during fights and the memming process? Maybe you are casting too much and not letting your pets cast? I'm not really sure. I don't mean to offend by any means, and I always giggle about people complaining about memtimes after playing Ogre Shaman prime for all the top tier zones :P (well not the new ones, Izans, IC2 or GF .. but I have solo enchanted (lvl 47 enchanter) all of those)

Even the damage issue .. with pets, you are damage machines .. sure without pets you are ess effective, but few zones out there dont allow you to get pets.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:00 pm

Masrick wrote:I can't figure out why Rain of Blood was removed from 8th Circle, I guess maybe the damage was increased as well. But it now comepetes against Banshee Wail which is a much better spell for most situations.

Alone I mem:

10th: Bone.
9th: Abi dalzimz
8th: Contagion


In group/Zone:

10th Banshee wail
9th Either Abi or globe depending.
8th Contag or blackmantle and 1 soul shackle maybe.

As far as 7th circle goes, I wouldn't mind seeing Corpse Glamor at a lower less important circle(2rd/4th) so I could atleast keep a few memmed so it'd be abit more useful during zoneing(usually have fly or lev on at all times).

In the end, even with Soul shackle, I tend to slow down zone groups or have to catch up later(this is differnet than a simple memming out issue)

So I said all that just to point out that I agree with loshaenar comments about the grouping of our spells at the higher circles.


Rain of blood being moved wasn't that huge a issue, more so for me I guess as I was already a Lich when they moved it. I don't get the falling behind thing. In zones, on the rare occasion where my pets die i'll snag fresh corpses(assuming zone allows it), and if the groups moves a couple of rooms? So what? :P You falling behind is not going to make the group slower. They can move, you're quite capable of catching up. If you don't know the way they want, then ask.

If it's a zone where you can't be left behind ask the leader to drag the corpse with him/her and when you get to a safe room embalm and animate there. It's not that huge an issue, not sure why you make it so. I mem fairly quick and i'm a human, not drow. Even as a lich with more spell slots I might be a _tad_ slower than others, but it's not truly noticable.
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Postby Drache » Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:07 pm

Rain of blood's damage is pretty non-invoker threatening to say the least. I wonder why it's not 8th circle.
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Postby Latreg » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:32 pm

Thilindel wrote:1 corpse vendor sounds nice. Trouble is it would have to be relatively offset in location. I imagine WD and other towns wouldn't want some seemingly shady or crazed undertaker vending cadavers anywhere near their locale. Very nice for RP too.


but dealing in poisons and things like garrottes is ok lol Water deep has such high standards hehehe

non wraith form undead in general should be allowed into places like water deep, liches included, much like leppers they would be robed fully and with maskes etc you couldn't tell what they really are, much like disguise, if they are preserved they aren't rotting so no issue there, skeletons would be harder to hide but it could be done.
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Postby Lilira » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:54 pm

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060809


Their movements might betray... *whistle*
~\o--Lilira Shadowlyre--o/~

You group-say 'my chars will carry the component on them if I can.'
Inama group-says 'hopefully they'll have some sort of volume discounts on ress items for people like you'
You group-say 'oh? Ya think? *giggle*'
Inama group-says 'they could at least implement frequent dier miles'

Suzalize group-says 'oh, eya's over weight i bet'
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Postby Latreg » Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:42 pm

Lilira wrote:http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060809


Their movements might betray... *whistle*


install ramps and hand rails in water deep, make it handi-capped accessible! I want a wagon and some Coffens (not to be confused with Cofen) order followers enter coffen;order followers play dead


hhmm how about that for a nifty item, Coffen charms, kind of like the bugbear or shaman totems, insta-pet!
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Postby Masrick » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:20 am

Life Walk: Would be nice if it included pets :) Just a thought!!
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Postby Masrick » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:14 am

Pet failing spells of lower circles .. like Ghost failing Beltyn's burning blood at level 49 seems silly.
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Postby Eilistraee » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:00 am

A ghost is animated at the same level as the necromancer - whether it is done through casting the spell or other means. Thus if you are of a level to fail Beltyn's burning blood, then your ghost will be as well.

Mob spell failure uses the same rules as PC spell failure. If you have an example of a ghost failing a spell that it is of sufficient level to cast, please send a log to my email, as listed under help email.
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Postby Ambar » Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:05 pm

Masrick wrote:Life Walk: Would be nice if it included pets :) Just a thought!!


relocate too!
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Postby Ubek » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:01 pm

Eilistraee wrote:A ghost is animated at the same level as the necromancer - whether it is done through casting the spell or other means. Thus if you are of a level to fail Beltyn's burning blood, then your ghost will be as well.

Mob spell failure uses the same rules as PC spell failure. If you have an example of a ghost failing a spell that it is of sufficient level to cast, please send a log to my email, as listed under help email.


I am level 49. Bel is 7th circle. It failed a spell, I didn't save the logs, maybe I miss interpreted the situation. Whatever is the case, at that point in time, my ghost failed Bel..
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