Sharing cursed weapon

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Drogga
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Sharing cursed weapon

Postby Drogga » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:55 pm

as the title say i would like to suggest that we have a command to pass cursed items especially weapons to other people. We all know that lotta people have lost their cursed weapon due to crash while they are trying to pass the weapon to others. Imagine you lost a valhalla simply because mud crash during tia split :P.

So maybe make a command calls <b>gci = give cursed item</b>.

the command requires receiver's consent and the item still cannot be dropped. example is as below

----
gci ebony ramo
>You need the person's consent to do that
>
> Ramo, the most handsome orc ever live has just give you his consent
>
gci ebony ramo
> You give an ebony bladed longsword to Ramo
>
---
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Re: Sharing cursed weapon

Postby Gormal » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:01 pm

Drogga wrote:We all know that lotta people have lost their cursed weapon due to crash while they are trying to pass the weapon to others.


We do?
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Postby Grumdikanikus » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:03 pm

But can't you still store the curse item in Storage at the inn and then do that nifty storage access command to allow another one of you characters to get it. That still seems to work for me. But if you are zoning that might be a bit harder to pull off.

That's how I move my Ravenar staff between my mages.

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Postby Drogga » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:36 pm

this is not the case of moving the item among your chars btw. people do have friends and yes i do. we do share lotta items including cursed weapons sometimes.
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Postby Gormal » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:43 pm

Doesn't that defy the entire idea behind cursed and undropable weapons though? I'm not really sure how new of a player you are, but I'd suggest getting your hands on some remove curse scrolls, or the more abundant potions.

I understand your argument about crashes and losing cursed weapons, but without storage caches and the recent stability the game has enjoyed, its not much of an issue any longer.
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Postby Disoputlip » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:31 pm

Your argument with us all knowing tons of people that have lost weapons just makes little sense to me.

Can you name some of the people that have lost cursed weapons due to crash?

Also who was supposed to pick them up?

It is not that I have anything against your suggestion, in fact I have a sollution for it. In the old DIKU code you could put a cursed item into a bag, then you could give or drop the bag. It would be cool if a flag sort of like curse existed, but it was simply !fumble, but you could bag it.
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Postby Botef » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:42 pm

I still think it would be nice to be able to hand a !drop weapon to another player at an Inn since storage cache sharing is not allowed. Not out of concern for losing a weapon to a crash, it would just be a nice convience when trading or loaning weapons to someone else.
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Drogga
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Postby Drogga » Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:47 am

since Botef have said it. is there anyway we can create a common storage shared by few players for those who have few good friends and want to share stuff with.
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Postby Latreg » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:11 pm

What needs to change is the terminology used to better go along with the actual D&D game. First off an actual cursed item is a bad thing ie sword of backbiting or one that is -2 -2 and is "cursed" so you can't easily get rid of it ( a curse is a bad thing). Now weapons that are no drop is a different story, having them no drop is a good thing aka no fumble, I'm not sure why this means you can't put it in a bag or give it to someone else. If it's a coding thing then that explains it, but other wise no drop/fumble is really just like a proc or something special.
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Postby Gurns » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:56 pm

There's no "fumble" in D&D, that's a TorilMUD special. And the only way to make a weapon undroppable on the mud is not via a "no drop" spell but to "curse item". A pretty clear statement, that yes, the folks that put it in meant "curse".

If I recall the explanation, that was supposed to be the tradeoff. You could have a weapon that could be fumbled, or you could have a weapon that couldn't be fumbled but was cursed (a penalty to hitroll and harder to pass around). Although there was some debate among players when "fumble" went in about what was best to do, most folks decided the undroppable weapon was better, and most folks got most of their higher-level weapons cursed.

To my mind, that says the penalty for cursing a weapon wasn't nearly harsh enough. To balance things better, probably a cursed weapon should be even harder to get rid of, and a no-drop weapon should cost more points in the equip calc-er.

I'd like to see it a lot harder to get rid of a cursed weapon, to help the mud feel more "real". It's not much of a curse, if you can just stick it in storage. No, I can't drop it out of my hand or stop it from sticking to my body -- unless I go to an inn, and hey, then it just falls easily into that cache. And for powerful weapons that act like they are semi-sentient? I don't think you should be able to get rid of those, or share those, at all. They should be bound to the soul of one PC, not available to whoever you want to loan it to. Heck, they should probably kill the PC if you try to get rid of them. And/or vanish forever.
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Postby Gormal » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:06 pm

When creating an item, you are given the option to make it either CURSED or NODROP. Curse, I'm sure has negative combat effects that no one has ever really puzzled out, while !drop seems to be benign. Very few high level weapons in the game now don't come without one of these features.
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Postby Latreg » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:57 pm

Gormal wrote:When creating an item, you are given the option to make it either CURSED or NODROP. Curse, I'm sure has negative combat effects that no one has ever really puzzled out, while !drop seems to be benign. Very few high level weapons in the game now don't come without one of these features.


There are real life instances where weapons where made or attempted to make no drop. You can find pictures of a sword built right into a gauntlet. With this you couldn't switch weapons, but you couldn't be disarmed either. Lanyards and other different kinds of strapping where used as well to try and make them !drop. So yes curse should be a bad thing and yeah harder to get rid of. What makes a weapon !drop can vary greatly from physcial contraptions to magical means. So really passing a !drop weapon can be very simple. Now the upper type weapons which could and probably should have an ego wouldn't let you give them to someone else, actually if you read up on it, you can't even use a different weapon in lots of cases. Fleshing out this whole topic might give additional dimension to the game.
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Postby Vipplin » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:10 pm

Well... for purposes of Toril I don't think the cleric spell Curse was ever intended to truly make a weapon into crap, else it would never be used on a weapon. Maybe we need to just rename the spell to NoDrop or something sexier, because really it is just intended to be that - make a weapon no-drop at the expense of lowering the size of its damage dice (I don't know of any other effects).

Curse as a true cursed weapon in AD&D, while cool-sounding, would have no impact on Toril unless there was some way for the weapon to actually get into someone's hands on its own. Everyone would just know "hey, after you kill Monster, don't get all, ok?" There would have to be maybe like a treasure box you couldn't get one thing out of without 'get all' or something, or a quest finish where you get handed something good and something cursed at the same time, or whatever.

Anyway, personally I'm not a big fan of fumble code, so I don't think a big penalty for making something !drop is a good thing. I wouldn't mind the fumble code so much if you couldn't permanently lose your Basket-Hilt in water that you can wade in.
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Postby Latreg » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:41 pm

Vipplin wrote:Well... for purposes of Toril I don't think the cleric spell Curse was ever intended to truly make a weapon into crap, else it would never be used on a weapon. Maybe we need to just rename the spell to NoDrop or something sexier, because really it is just intended to be that - make a weapon no-drop at the expense of lowering the size of its damage dice (I don't know of any other effects).

Curse as a true cursed weapon in AD&D, while cool-sounding, would have no impact on Toril unless there was some way for the weapon to actually get into someone's hands on its own. Everyone would just know "hey, after you kill Monster, don't get all, ok?" There would have to be maybe like a treasure box you couldn't get one thing out of without 'get all' or something, or a quest finish where you get handed something good and something cursed at the same time, or whatever.

Anyway, personally I'm not a big fan of fumble code, so I don't think a big penalty for making something !drop is a good thing. I wouldn't mind the fumble code so much if you couldn't permanently lose your Basket-Hilt in water that you can wade in.


it is silly you can loose a weapon into water that you can walk through with no boat or fly needed. I have to believe all this was put in to get rid of gear/weapons in the game. And the penalty for "cleric curseing" an item was put in to deter people from doing it. Personally hit dice don't mean squat if the weapon can proc para or blind, something really handy like that. What would happen if the code was removed and all the affected cursed weapons restored to their full stats?
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Postby Thilindel » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:38 pm

Just like the logic that cursing takes 1dx from a weapon, blessing it should add 1dx just the same..
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Postby moritheil » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:51 am

Gurns wrote:There's no "fumble" in D&D, that's a TorilMUD special. And the only way to make a weapon undroppable on the mud is not via a "no drop" spell but to "curse item". A pretty clear statement, that yes, the folks that put it in meant "curse".


To be fair, of course, a fumble or something else untoward happening on a natural 1 is a reasonably popular houserule. :wink:

It sounds like people are calling for a revival of the "split curse and NODROP" idea.
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Postby Gurns » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:31 am

Latreg wrote: real life instances ... attempted to make no drop. ... sword built right into a gauntlet. With this you couldn't switch weapons, but you couldn't be disarmed either. ... different kinds of strapping where used as well to try and make them !drop.

Yes, it's interesting stuff. I'd be happy to see fumble code expanded, but I'm of the opinion that for every plus, there should be a minus. So the locking gauntlet might mean you can't drop nor be disarmed, but you also couldn't switch weapons during a fight and should as well lose a bit in fighting ability, maybe lose some points to parry and riposte. A strap might mean you are less likely to drop or be disarmed, but there's still some chance, and you still can't switch weapons during a fight. There must be reasons such things weren't used more widely, after all.

As it is with the curse/!drop stuff, curse has some negatives, not enough IMO, but does !drop have any? If not, it should. My feeling is that you've got balance here if half the players have their weapons cursed, half have them !drop, and half don't use either. Back when I was playing regularly, it seemed that everyone had cursed weapons (except at the lower levels). I think it should be a real choice, with good reasons for and against any option.

Vipplin wrote:I'm not a big fan of fumble code, so I don't think a big penalty for making something !drop is a good thing.

I'm a fan for its possibilities, but the implementation is insufficient. It could make players think and react during a fight, but it doesn't. It could make them think more about the weapons they use, and whether to get them cursed, or made !drop, or left untouched, but it doesn't.

Vipplin wrote:I wouldn't mind the fumble code so much if you couldn't permanently lose your Basket-Hilt in water that you can wade in.

Yes, that's bad.

I also find it odd that if a mob is using a weapon, and drops it, and I reach for it, how the heck is the mob going to stop me from getting it by just hitting me? If the mob can do that, why is it bothering to use a weapon at all? Just pound away with those fists, and I won't even get close enough to it to hit it.

What I'd like to see in 2.0 is more fumbles, and more mobs pick up more weapons. That always livens things up.
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Postby Latreg » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:25 pm

Gurns wrote:As it is with the curse/!drop stuff, curse has some negatives, not enough IMO, but does !drop have any? If not, it should. My feeling is that you've got balance here if half the players have their weapons cursed, half have them !drop, and half don't use either. Back when I was playing regularly, it seemed that everyone had cursed weapons (except at the lower levels). I think it should be a real choice, with good reasons for and against any option.

What I'd like to see in 2.0 is more fumbles, and more mobs pick up more weapons. That always livens things up.


Go to cm, all those buggers will pick up your weapons. I would agree with you Gurns if melee from non rogues actually did damage and was worth while. To further make melee useless isn't a good thing imo. As in cm you use !drop/cursed weapons, you don't worry about switching weapons much. I've cursed lots of weapons because the loss of dice damage is far better than loosing the whole weapon. What I think you find even now is people won't or don't use !drop weapons due to the fear of loosing them over water or having a mob pick them up or a crash. Maybe it's just my own fear I dunno, but there isn't much variety of weapons tanks use in zones etc, not compared to what's available, not including 2h weapons.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:33 pm

Gormal wrote:When creating an item, you are given the option to make it either CURSED or NODROP. Curse, I'm sure has negative combat effects that no one has ever really puzzled out, while !drop seems to be benign. Very few high level weapons in the game now don't come without one of these features.


When you apply the curse it takes off a 0d1. That's it
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Lilira » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:30 pm

Latreg wrote:
Gurns wrote:As it is with the curse/!drop stuff, curse has some negatives, not enough IMO, but does !drop have any? If not, it should. My feeling is that you've got balance here if half the players have their weapons cursed, half have them !drop, and half don't use either. Back when I was playing regularly, it seemed that everyone had cursed weapons (except at the lower levels). I think it should be a real choice, with good reasons for and against any option.

What I'd like to see in 2.0 is more fumbles, and more mobs pick up more weapons. That always livens things up.


Go to cm, all those buggers will pick up your weapons. I would agree with you Gurns if melee from non rogues actually did damage and was worth while. To further make melee useless isn't a good thing imo. As in cm you use !drop/cursed weapons, you don't worry about switching weapons much. I've cursed lots of weapons because the loss of dice damage is far better than loosing the whole weapon. What I think you find even now is people won't or don't use !drop weapons due to the fear of loosing them over water or having a mob pick them up or a crash. Maybe it's just my own fear I dunno, but there isn't much variety of weapons tanks use in zones etc, not compared to what's available, not including 2h weapons.


Not too mention when the little bastards scoop them up and use them on you... I've died 5 or 6 times to backstabs from duergar scouts cus the stabber in our party REFUSED to curse their weapon. That's their perogative of course if they do not wish to damage the weapon, but find something !drop or go without when it is other people that suffer for it.

Yes I agree that fumble could be refined. Dunno how it will be addressed in 2.0, and it will be interesting to see.
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Postby Botef » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:54 pm

Lilira wrote:
Latreg wrote:
Gurns wrote:As it is with the curse/!drop stuff, curse has some negatives, not enough IMO, but does !drop have any? If not, it should. My feeling is that you've got balance here if half the players have their weapons cursed, half have them !drop, and half don't use either. Back when I was playing regularly, it seemed that everyone had cursed weapons (except at the lower levels). I think it should be a real choice, with good reasons for and against any option.

What I'd like to see in 2.0 is more fumbles, and more mobs pick up more weapons. That always livens things up.


Go to cm, all those buggers will pick up your weapons. I would agree with you Gurns if melee from non rogues actually did damage and was worth while. To further make melee useless isn't a good thing imo. As in cm you use !drop/cursed weapons, you don't worry about switching weapons much. I've cursed lots of weapons because the loss of dice damage is far better than loosing the whole weapon. What I think you find even now is people won't or don't use !drop weapons due to the fear of loosing them over water or having a mob pick them up or a crash. Maybe it's just my own fear I dunno, but there isn't much variety of weapons tanks use in zones etc, not compared to what's available, not including 2h weapons.


Not too mention when the little bastards scoop them up and use them on you... I've died 5 or 6 times to backstabs from duergar scouts cus the stabber in our party REFUSED to curse their weapon. That's their perogative of course if they do not wish to damage the weapon, but find something !drop or go without when it is other people that suffer for it.

Yes I agree that fumble could be refined. Dunno how it will be addressed in 2.0, and it will be interesting to see.


It wouldn't be so bad if mobs didn't insta-scavange stuff a lot of the time. I swear I've seen a few mobs scavenge those transient weapons in cm when it drops but before it poofs. I suppose they kinda half to in order to beat fumble triggers, but if your in the middle of an action like bash or circle your screwed.

Oh well, makes things exciting!
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Postby Latreg » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:30 pm

let's add trip and fall to even things up. Botef trips and falls into a large puddle. Botef's spells books become soaked and illegible. Botef stands here sobbing uncontrollably. :P

Osheara attemps to nance of a stream but falls in. In attempt to break her fall she drops her (held item) and it gets washed away. Osheara stands here sobbing uncontrollably.

Agor staggers from powerful kick from a jackass, shattering his orbs. (you figure out which orbs muahahaha) Agor stands here sobbing uncontrollably.

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