Spellquests, rareloads and demotivation

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Eshacin
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Spellquests, rareloads and demotivation

Postby Eshacin » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:38 pm

Oops, sorry, I meant to post this in Gameplay. If someone can move it...

For a couple of months now I've been heading over to greycloak hills every boot in search of a lump of sky metal, but of course it's never there. This last boot I was looged on when the reboot was announced, so of course I go to wait by the zone...

Sigh, there's a queue already! Now I enjoyed playing the invoker I rolled and got up to level 43, but I really lose interest if it's practically impossible to complete spellquests in a reasonable length of time. Which it is. Rareloads+spellquests+long boots=broken game=players who can't be bothered anymore.

Nuff said, I'm sure everyone knows this already
Last edited by Eshacin on Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:40 pm

Wrong forum!

But I tend to agree. When I was doing erlan(multiple times) I always checked for skymetal for people when I was there on boots. I swear I haven't seen it in months.
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Postby Birile » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:46 pm

See me ingame, I'm hording them.

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Postby Sarvis » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:24 pm

No offense Arilin and Birile, but you're part of the problem. I know you're trying to be nice by giving these things to people (unless you're selling them of course), but all you are really doing is robbing people of the fun of doing the quest themselves.

The whole trying to rush to a zone to beat everyone else thing just plain sucks, especially when half the time you lose out to someone just hoarding them for selling/alts/freebies.

If you've already got what you needed, leave it alone so someone else can learn the quest too.
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Postby Birile » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:53 pm

Sarvis wrote:No offense Arilin and Birile, but you're part of the problem. I know you're trying to be nice by giving these things to people (unless you're selling them of course), but all you are really doing is robbing people of the fun of doing the quest themselves.

The whole trying to rush to a zone to beat everyone else thing just plain sucks, especially when half the time you lose out to someone just hoarding them for selling/alts/freebies.

If you've already got what you needed, leave it alone so someone else can learn the quest too.


Thank you for your input. I just got another one.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:47 pm

I'm not part of the problem. I'm not quite sure how that is. I haven't ever had one except for the single time I needed it to quest. My point was I checked for freaking months and never saw it load.

So, i'm missing how that's an issue.
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Postby Ifin » Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:20 am

Yeah rares and hoarding and whether it's beneficial to hoarde even on the basis of giving away or leaving it there and potentially letting it go to waste is such a tricky subject.

But on a side note, due to less activity, I'd say it's almost next to impossible for newer players to really figure out spell quests on their own anyways. Before you would have the chance to go to a lot of zones, see a lot of the world, and what pieces of eq are out there because you HAD people to do that with. Now, with limited new knowledge, it's really hard.

So to make it rewarding in itself if that's the goal for the maybe 1 non-alt 41+ new player that grinds it out every couple months might need a revision of the spell prompts from the quest characters.

IE, can anyone tell me how to prompt for the relocate spell anyways?!?!
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Postby Sarvis » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:02 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:I'm not part of the problem. I'm not quite sure how that is. I haven't ever had one except for the single time I needed it to quest. My point was I checked for freaking months and never saw it load.

So, i'm missing how that's an issue.


Sorry Arilin, I misunderstood. I thought you were actually getting the item each time, not just checking for it. My bad!
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Postby Gormal » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:37 pm

Ifin wrote:IE, can anyone tell me how to prompt for the relocate spell anyways?!?!


I have it logged at home actually. It is a difficult one to finally get to the items though.
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Postby Latreg » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:51 pm

why make the sky-metal rare load anyway? Make a rare load one that is different for the non spell quests. The one FOR the spell quests make it always load and repop, if that's all it's used for, what harm would there be in it? So what if several people can do the same spell quest in the same boot, who cares, what harm is there? Making something wanted by so many people that there is a race for it doesn't make it difficult it just makes it annoying.
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Postby Zabam » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:42 pm

I really have to agree with Ifin concerning the ability for new players to figure out what is required to complete a spell quest. Unless a new player is actually led to the items or a sequence of actions to get items, there is no way (based on the decription provided by quest mobs) the new player will complete any of the quests. *this is the perspective of a newer player*

I have tried to do the quests numerous times and it is just plain frustrating. Sitting in Greycloak and asking that mage just about every crazy question I can think of...for a couple of hours is ridiculous and just a plain waste of time. It is far better to quit the mage-type character and play something without quests. In short, the quest system *in my opinion* is broke. Namely, the quest process assumes I know what to ask; what I am looking for; where I can find it...based on the nebulous information provided by the quest mob.

The quest should be able to be solved by a player ---from the information provided to the player--- and not reliant on the institutional knowledge of the old hands. *I don't see how these quests were orignally solved or the solution ever found unless they were 1) an Alt of an Amin. 2) Originally shown by an Admin, or 3) leaked information from an Admin or Areas*

After trying to complete the quest crap, I deleted a 41 necro and a 42 ellie due to frustration. Try taking an grey elf into UD to try to find some friggen mushroom or something..somewhere in UD...After losing all the eq I accumulated after 3 or 4 months and dying 3x...it just wasn't worth it. I didn't need the quest at that point anyway.

Ditto on the zones and areas of the mud...No one groups except to do CM or DS it seems. So newer players only get to see a very small portion of the mud... for example: the other night some said "AV" and I had no idea what they were talking about.
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Postby Gormal » Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:57 pm

One of the reasons that Greycloak is so great is that Talos made the quests far more intricate than ask mob 'hi' -> "go find me xyz for reward!

Just because a mob is the final and seemingly only step in a quest, does not mean that they are the only one that was put in. There are clues lying around about what to do. I think that the problem isn't that the quest is hard, its that almost no one has actually done the full quests anymore.
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Postby Teshidee » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:39 pm

hmm, i believe it helps to ask for scrolls or something, steve. got the keyword by coincidence long long ago - walked back to his store and tried all nouns from the roomdescrip. not sure if that is the way it's supposed to get done. shrug. suspect it's more part of the inferno bit, since finishin relo gives you a piece.
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Postby Ambar » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:58 am

Trouble is that the chunk is needed for so many quests, not so much that folks horde them.

It isnt rare, is it? I think people just scoop it up at boot. He said there was already a queue for it when he was camping it upon boot notice.
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Postby Naled » Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:16 pm

I think the fundamental problem with rares is virtually all load at boot. This causes:

a) people camping rares. This used to be forbidden but appearantly not anymore.
b) most boots are around the same time due to imms having to be there. This is a disadvantage for people playing in different time slots due to location, work schedules etc.
c) The mud being dead after 2 or 3 hours into boot. All rares have been hunted, not enough people on for zoning group so everybody afks.

Only solution in my opinion is to stop having rares load at boot and make it so they can load at any time during boot. Have to adjust loadpercentages to keep the rarity the same.

This change has been advocated by a lot of people and is long overdue in my opinion.
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Postby Ambar » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:38 pm

Camping outside zone (at sign) has never been disallowed. It's a fast walk to the *aforementioned item*, and if you are fastest to re-log then you win.

Extreme questErs argue that too bad so sad I got there first, but those are the hoarders imho ..

Perhaps reducing the number of a certain item per player file would help? Unsure, only a suggestion.
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Postby Sarell » Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:02 am

I found 2 spellquests by myself for my psi so far. It took me a LONG time and I am very intimate with the whole underdark let alone the rest of the mud. Guild masters should give a general guide to where spellquest spells could be learnt. The mud is far too big. You can't ask people for a hint where they might start cos they go and blurt out the whole quest!
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Postby Ambar » Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:42 pm

I have always felt your guildmaster, your TRAINER should start spell/skill quests. It only makes sense that the very NPC who teaches you from level one would still be there for you at lvl 41 or whenever your first questable spell/skill is.
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Postby Ifin » Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:51 pm

Again listen to the new player. For all the old people who have alts etc. been around, it might be rewarding to figure out obscure keywords to quests by ourselves.

But if your'e new, you don't have that kind of luxury, nor institutional knowledge about what globals around that might give you keyword, and you want to just get the spell done so you can catch up w/everyone else's 32480342 alt.

Again, if you're new, you might not even know there's an Underdark, and then you have to be reliant on an old person to walk you through.

I remember another post where someone explored nightwood and old people jumped on him for not being more careful. But remember, they have no clue what's in these places we know about.

Yes it's good that they get out and explore and perhaps even die. But at the very least give them empathy and not "oh you should have done this" or "it's more rewarding" etc.

I don't know if spell prompts can give more clues and also warn of danger areas, or if we should just leave it be and frustrate the hell out of new players til they just ask an older player and then get the items handed to them or what, but at the very least emphatize.
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Postby Ifin » Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:55 pm

Oh and yes I don't see why rares can't load throughout boot.

Though even w/longer boots, the % of rares into the system to pbase is probably the same as back then when uptimes were shorter but more players. So perhaps up'ing rare rate doesn't make sense.

But let's say we say 48 hours is an "ideal" uptime, and a rare is 10% and zone pops each hour. Instead of having it 10% load at boot, make it like .05 load each pop. I forgot all my statistics, but it's like a binomial distribution or something, so at 48 hours the expectied rarity is still 10%. Though after the "ideal" uptime can either kill the load % or just let it keep going.

Otherwise right now, you have activity for 1 hour after boot, maybe a zone for 3 hours every day, and then people get bored for 21 hours every 24 hour cycle til the next boot.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:43 pm

I was one of the first to get the greaycloak quest spells when the zone went live. Myself, Kanador and (I think) Athorn must have sat there talking to those mobs for days straight before we figured it out. They made a bit more sense back then due to the limited number of options we had to check, nowadays you don't really have much choice but to rely on old knowledge.

I think having your guildmaster give you an idea would help, also should require a bit more knowledge of your character and a bit less random camping luck. Talos made those quests more as a filler because immquests had stopped at that point and so many people needed the spells, they were supposed to be one of a few quest options to choose from. Hell I was 47 when I finally got gate and relocate and nothing was ever added to give people another route to take.

P.S. Bring back immquests!
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Postby Todrael » Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:20 pm

Limited zones and mobs leads to limited, and knowable amounts of information. The larger the mud gets, the harder it is to find any one mob or bit of information. The context of current events and the status of the mud and its players also plays a large role in quests. For example, I never would have been able to complete the lich quest without someone telling me exactly what I needed to do for at least one step. And when I say 'never', I mean literally, I would still be a necromancer all these years later, because that step makes absolutely no sense whatsoever except in the context of the times when Lich was first put in. No hyperbole involved.

Here are some interesting statistics from the 'world stats' command:

Current time is: Sun Mar 6 07:21:34 2005 (EDT)
Total number of zones in world: 244
Total number of rooms in world: 56482
Total number of different mobiles: 11844
Total number of different objects: 11503


Current time is: Sun Dec 3 09:06:24 2006 (EDT)
Total number of zones in world: 299 (+55, +22.5%)
Total number of rooms in world: 67810 (+11328, +20%)
Total number of different mobiles: 16256 (+4412, +37%)
Total number of different objects: 13751 (+2248, +19.5%)
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Postby Sarvis » Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:55 pm

Naled wrote:I think the fundamental problem with rares is virtually all load at boot. This causes:

a) people camping rares. This used to be forbidden but appearantly not anymore.
b) most boots are around the same time due to imms having to be there. This is a disadvantage for people playing in different time slots due to location, work schedules etc.
c) The mud being dead after 2 or 3 hours into boot. All rares have been hunted, not enough people on for zoning group so everybody afks.

Only solution in my opinion is to stop having rares load at boot and make it so they can load at any time during boot. Have to adjust loadpercentages to keep the rarity the same.

This change has been advocated by a lot of people and is long overdue in my opinion.


Agreed, 100%.


Also, to go along with what Todrael is saying maybe spell quests, or even all quests, should be reviewed to make sure they are sensible. I don't see a quest where one or more steps are impossible to figure out on your own as being very fun...
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Postby daggaz » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:12 pm

I agree strongly with just about every post on this thread, EXCEPT Birile's.

I think you should check the rules again, Birile, your behaviour is explicitly defined and disallowed. Its easy to check, just log on and type 'RULES.' Hey, there's a first time for everything, yeah? Do us all a favor and make sure and read them all. Twice.

The fact that your only response to the debate on your behavior was to flagrantly gloat about having broken this rule again just shows extreme lack of character. Personally, I think you outta be handed out some punishment instead of just a warning, givin that you actually posted about it on this bbs in this manner. But lucky for you, I'm not a god so its not really my call.

I call your attention to Rule 6, subsection 1 (hoarding) and subsection 3 (which defines intent to give away as an unacceptable reason).

6. QUEST ABUSE WILL NOT BE ALLOWED NOR TOLERATED.
It's pretty sad we have to add this, but some people are greedy
and mean. Anyone caught doing the following will be punished:
1. hoarding items needed for quests for no acceptable reason
(If you grab items needed to do a quest, you'd better do
the quest as soon as you are able.)
2. selling items needed only for quests that have no real eq value
3. stealing items needed for quests from mobs with the intention
of selling or giving them away
4. "twinking" quests by gathering up needed items and "hiding"
or renting with them
5. "twinking" any quest related mob or item to prevent people
from completing a part of or a full quest. This includes
killing the mob while people are in the zone trying to do
the quest.
6. preventing a quest load by sitting on the MUD with a quest
item that you are not actively using. If you cannot use
the item, RENT IT.
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Postby Tasan » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:48 pm

daggaz wrote:

Code: Select all

        6. preventing a quest load by sitting on the MUD with a quest
           item that you are not actively using. If you cannot use
           the item, RENT IT.


Nearly everyone is guilty of this particular rule. Let's just punish everyone for poorly thought out wording to things.
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Postby daggaz » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:39 am

Tasan: Most common quest items (ie rareload only at boot) load in when the game loads, BEFORE players can log in and interfere using their pfiles. So walking around with a bag full of quest goodies rarely causes a problem. In addition to that, I'm sure the gods are looking for intent. As in, you know that holding a specific item will twink the load, and you carry it around for the express purpose of doing exactly that. (Or you were warned and you continue the behavior anyhow.)

Furthermore, two wrongs don't make a right. Just adding more to the equation hardly changes it. 'But everybody else is doing it,' isn't exactly the moral high ground, either.

And finally, try sticking to matter at hand? Finding another, non-related paragraph in the rules which may or may not be poorly written hardly undermines the entire rule set, or the argument at hand. I would argue as well that the rules, for the most part, are very clearly written.

What Birile is doing causes problems for other players, as was pointed out by several people and hence the very existence of this thread. Furthermore, it is blatantly against the rules, probably for the exact reasons posted. And what is his response? A smug screw you I did it again. Right on the bbs. Yeah, I say the gods should come down on him.

Personally, I don't have anything more to say on this and will abstain from further posting on the subject. Its not my jurisdiction. Would be nice with a God response tho, at least on the subject of whether or not this behavior is acceptable, ie the rules are poorly written outdated, or they are good as stands.
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Postby Tasan » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:17 am

daggaz wrote:What Birile is doing causes problems for other players, as was pointed out by several people and hence the very existence of this thread.


I have a very nice looking bridge to sell you...
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Postby daggaz » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:47 am

What the hell are you talking about? That doesn't even make sense. I would hardly say I'm being gullible here, which is what that phrase is usually used to imply.

You have several people, one of them being the threads original poster, complaining that they can never find the starmetal. (Which, to my knowledge, has a very high load % if it's even rareload anymore). I myself, having two quested casters, had similiar difficulties finding said skymetal.

Should I assume those other people were lying about their experience? Did I dream up my own experience?
Or perhaps I'm gullible because I read and FOLLOW the rules as layed down by the Gods?

Then Birile comes in and says hey no problem, 'I'm hoarding them!, come talk to me ingame.', as if this is a solution to the problem...

Well hey, I'm sorry but the quest is 'There was a bright flash in the sky last night and a terrible explosion. Go search the woods for the impact crater and maybe you will find this 'skymetal' you are looking for.'

NOT 'go talk to Birile or one of his many hoarding alts (if he's on) and probably he'll pull a chunk of it out of his pants and give it to you.'

And when folks pointed out this difference, all he can do is smugly remark that he did it again last boot. Yeah great. And yeah, he obviously isn't following the rules, to the detriment of anybody doing the quest who doesn't know him/want to go thru him. OR ANYBODY ELSE DOING THE SAME THING.

End of discussion.
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Postby Latreg » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:00 pm

Tasan wrote:
daggaz wrote:

Code: Select all

        6. preventing a quest load by sitting on the MUD with a quest
           item that you are not actively using. If you cannot use
           the item, RENT IT.


Nearly everyone is guilty of this particular rule. Let's just punish everyone for poorly thought out wording to things.



I'm not sure what is poorly thought out or worded, but there are several things that I know of that will not repop if there are already is one in the game. Maybe that's what your talking about. How about this kind of thing get re-evaluated? Why shouldn't something repop if there's more than one in the game? To prevent farming? If you aren't going to change this then enforce it. By that I mean some people might not know certain things need to be rented or it won't repop, no need to come down hard on them just inform usually works.
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Postby daggaz » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:59 pm

There are plenty of items like that, Latreg. The items load this way, because with quests you obviously don't want your quest items repopping all the time, or the quest becomes too easy and the item (which is generally cooler cuz its rare/hard to get) floods the market. Thats why renting items out is more of a twink problem than not renting them. Hence the other side of the renting rule, see rule 6.4. As for a solution to this, it's buried deep in the most central coding as to how the mud works,.. so you probably have to wait till 2.0 to see any kind of fix.

As for the flip side as mentioned by Tasan, there are low level quests, among other things, which you can block by sitting on the mud with the items. The quests are meant to be doable many times a boot, and have generally low power rewards because of it, so at the worst you are usually hurting the newbies in scardale. Most people blocking these quests are the newbies themselves, and they have no idea they are doing it, so of course they don't get punished for it. Its just part of the mystery into, hey why did the mob stop loading its items today?

Most quests of any importance dont work this way. Thats why sitting in the Inn with all the items for say, those demon moccasins, doesn't matter. The rares for those shoes load before your pfile does, at boot, and only at boot. Maybe. So you cant ever affect the load. The overwhelming majority of quests in the game work this way, so obviously the gods dont punish people for keeping the items on their characters.

As to the gods enforcing quest twinking, they most certaintly do. I know plenty of people who have been busted hard for screwing with loads in high end zones. But the whole point is, the gods shouldn't have to enforce the rules, we should just follow them.

As for when they enforce them, note that the two-sided nature of these renting rules inherently imply intent. You must/must not rent it, depending on how the item works, which implies you know what you are doing with said item, which usually implies you are caught taking advantage of the situation. This intent is written explicitly in the language, just in case people miss the point, Ie 'twinking items by..'

Shev, if this is too explicit (tried not to say anything that wasn't mentioned by another in the thread or in the rules themselves), then you have my apologies and please feel free to delete this message.

I do feel its important tho that people understand and follow the few rules we have. It makes the game better for everybody. And hoarding quest items, for any reason, is one of the most annoying, game-breaking things you can do. Please stop it.
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Postby Tasan » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:32 pm

Latreg wrote:I'm not sure what is poorly thought out or worded, but there are several things that I know of that will not repop if there are already is one in the game.


It's called maxload. Most unique items are listed w/ 1 maxload so that if there is one already in the game it will not load again. If such an item happens to be rare enough that very few players have it, there is a chance to "pop" the item by renting it, yes.

The poor wording is in requiring people to rent out items they aren't questing immediately. For years now people have gathered quest items in bags until you get people who have literally enough quest items to take up several large containers, which they keep on their character. Actually the poor wording comes in not enforcing the rule or changing it. If you want to allow people to collect items they aren't "actively using" then reword the rule. If you don't want people collecting quest items without renting them in a timely fashion then enforce it.

I pointed out that rule because it was the least followed in that list. The others are similarly poorly worded:

Code: Select all

2. selling items needed only for quests that have no real eq value


90% of the most useful quest items are items of value unto themselves anyhow in the current incarnation, this rule is old and needs revision.

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3. stealing items needed for quests from mobs with the intention
of selling or giving them away


See above. With items having actual value(and not just required for a quest) this rule seems out of date. Why should it be illegal to use a class skill to obtain an item? We are supposed to police ourselves when it comes to farming etc.

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1. hoarding items needed for quests for no acceptable reason
(If you grab items needed to do a quest, you'd better do
the quest as soon as you are able.)


This is the worst one of all. "for no acceptable reason"? Which reason is an acceptable one to hoard? As soon as you are able to? That could be months(or more) for many people who can't find a single rare. Also I don't know of anyone who purposely sat on items for a particular quest that they could have finished without actually finishing it. It just doesn't make sense not to condense the items by actually doing the quest. Hoarding that results in one player monopolizing the influx of an item(and its subsequent value) I can understand being a problem, however I can't remember when this problem has come up.

Generally I believe the major issue lies in items which have little other value than the quest to which they are tied being rare or not loading throughout a boot. Why is the skymetal rare in the first place and why doesn't it repop? I don't think it is going to ruin the game to have more than 1 person be able to quest a transportation spell in the same boot. This applies to other items as well.

Oh and Daggaz... if you can't infer sarcasm/humor etc., you should reserve your opinion for yourself. If you knew Birile, you'd know that a) he isn't hoarding skymetal like mithril ore, and b) he was being sarcastic/humorous.

I agree that the current system sucks if someone has taken the item which you were looking for only to be offline or give it to someone else. I believe that self-policing is still the best thing to do however. Having harsh rules regarding number of times you could do a quest or any other restrictions would put a serious damper on some of the content. Making sure that spell/skill "components" aren't set to maxload 1 when they aren't useful outside of the quest would be another good step.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:15 pm

Just make the fucking sky-metal !rent and maxload 20 along with all the other rares needed for spellquests. Why am I so smart.
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Postby Birile » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:20 pm

People make me chuckle... :lol: FYI, I didn't even log onto the mud on Nov. 30... :P

Oh, and Doug = *hero*... guess I should've checked this post since the 30th.

I think someone made a very good point (Tod?), that being that a LOT of quests are near impossible to even figure out without actually talking to somebody ingame who knows the steps (read: items) involved in completing the quests. I know that's how a good majority of us have completed our spell quests. That, to me, is a huge problem. These kinds of impossible to figure out quests cause a lot of angst for those of us who don't have ingame contacts to spew forth the details of a much-needed quest. There is a huge disparity between true new players who are trying to quest their spells and someone leveling up their umpteenth alt and going to their guild bbs or asking a guildie the details of a quest (and probably being handed a lot of the items from said guildies). Frankly, it makes me want to cry when I hear a true new player asking how to start the Relocate quest--as in "Which mob do I have to talk to to get information for the Relocate quest?" Not even asking what the items are, but actually wanting to do the quest themselves but banging their head against the wall trying to figure it out. WTF?? It's not fair. Such an integral part of being a mage that most of us take it for granted, yet there are a lot of people out there who have !info on the quest because it's just about IMPOSSIBLE to glean the information from the game itself nowadays. And what about those powergamers and/or veteran players who love to quest, run up against an impossible roadblock trying to figure the quest out for themselves, and finally having to resort to a friend/guildie/bbs/whatever to get the needed information? I'm sure it wasn't their first choice for how to complete the quest.

Kind of detracts from the fun of the game for everybody, doesn't it?
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Postby Latreg » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:05 pm

some really great ideas in this thread. I have always though the guild master should be the first step in spell quests, it just makes sense. They are after all the "master". Even if all they say is to go this area and find this person tell him I sent you. As far as items go I really hope this will be looked at, at least the common or most horded ones first, the more obscure or unknown ones there wouldn't need to be a rush on. For one there's a cold weather creature that you need a couple of pelts from, which apparently will not repop if there are some in the game. Very often this is gone after a reboot/crash, so by people not renting them out there may only be one pelt per boot and then you probably have to be the first one to the spot. well you get the idea anyway.

As far as Birlie goes, the should be god para'd in the center of w.d. so we can all throw eggs at him and taunt him merciless. I don't really think he was doing anything against the spirit of the game, I think he really does try to help out. It's kind of like technically breaking the law but not the spirit for which it was intended. Tasan is right it needs to be cleared up and revised.
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Quests

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:40 am

I went through all the spell quests we had gathered for our guild bbs. Most of them can be found by talking to mobs in cities or global loads. There are a few that are insane. But I think that a person who explores the mud finds these quests out and starts working on them until he finds out what they are. That's what I truly enjoyed doing the most, finding out quests and doing them. By exploring semi-easy areas, one can find out many of these quests. BUT:

One thing I will say however, is that the quest mob SHOULD tell you what the 'reward' will be if he is a mob that quests a SPELL. While quests for items should probably be left vague or unknown, I firmly believe I should know what spell I'll be getting from random guy in X city.

Oh and one thing that kinda goes along with the idea of the thread:

Please check CP quests. I can tell you I ransacked that place for quests/keywords and whatnot over the years, and some of those mobs have some INSANE keywords to trigger the next step of chat. Some I can honestly say make no sense whatsoever, others are triggered by words that had to have been given by gods to players when the new CP came in, or the area maker.

Also, I might be wrong, but I think it is currently completely impossible to figure out the keyword to get into the Chieftain's room in Split Shield. Either you knew it from being an old fart, or it got passed down to you. I used to remember where it was, but I couldn't do it this boot. But like I said, I could be wrong.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Quests

Postby Vigis » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:48 am

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote: Also, I might be wrong, but I think it is currently completely impossible to figure out the keyword to get into the Chieftain's room in Split Shield.


Ya know, I forgot that keyword now that I think about it. I remember coming across somebody once who had walked in after the door had been opened, the zone popped and the door closed. They were locked in from the inside cuz they didn't know the keyword and were just xping in SS.

Needless to say, I lauged my arse off before helping them out of there.
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Postby Ambar » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:27 am

Doorbash FTW! (I think thats the room?) I know someone told me to doorbash an up in SS exit back when doorbash took you into the room, and I died FAST
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Postby Yadir » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:35 pm

There is a secret exit from the chieftain's room. You don't need a key to get out. Though will have to search for it which can be tough when they're all going aggro on you. There is also a room above the cheiftain's room that is generally safe.

Ambar - You're thinking of the SSAT in Split Shield. Different room - You die much faster in that room. There is a key for that room somewhere in SS but I can't remember where it is. So without the key you have to either pick the lock or doorbash if you want to get in. :)
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SS

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:29 pm

Yadir wrote:There is a secret exit from the chieftain's room. You don't need a key to get out. Though will have to search for it which can be tough when they're all going aggro on you. There is also a room above the cheiftain's room that is generally safe.



Yeah Yadir, but the keyword to get INTO the Chieftain's room is the problem. I don't think there's a way to get the keyword anymore. If I'm not mistaken (and I could be) it used to be on a hidden piece of paper in a certain house. I could be mistaken, it's been too long.
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Postby Yadir » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:17 pm

I was just replying to Vigis.. that there was another way out of the chief's room. I agree that I don't think the word is obtainable anymore.
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Re: SS

Postby Tanji Smanji » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:07 am

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:
Yadir wrote:There is a secret exit from the chieftain's room. You don't need a key to get out. Though will have to search for it which can be tough when they're all going aggro on you. There is also a room above the cheiftain's room that is generally safe.



Yeah Yadir, but the keyword to get INTO the Chieftain's room is the problem. I don't think there's a way to get the keyword anymore. If I'm not mistaken (and I could be) it used to be on a hidden piece of paper in a certain house. I could be mistaken, it's been too long.


Yep, rofl. That house down by where the arena was supposed to go. My sorc got blasted there so often when I was leveling up. Luckily Sang spawned nearby in BS to save me.
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Postby moritheil » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:43 pm

The problem is essentially the bottleneck - there is only one way to get this item, the item is the only way to progress in the quest, and the quest itself yields an essential class feature.

Though it might be a radical solution, how about making more than one way to do the same quest, so that the load gets split some between the alternate ways to progress towards the spell?

Of course, it could be be argued that it is hard to make these alternate paths have the exact same difficulty, but it might be worth it to make things less frustrating.
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