At this point..

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Llaaldara
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At this point..

Postby Llaaldara » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:38 pm

What would be the harm in letting Evils and Goodies group together?

I know the old arguments and points. I remember all that talk, but at this point, which is really worse? At this point, the sporadic moments I actually do log in for a little, I'm always hoping that maybe this has changed. It is a very interesting idea to me.
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Postby Thilindel » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:05 pm

I'm infinitely behind them grouping together.

Tired of hearing 'We can't zone yet, the evils aren't done and can't get enough people until then.'
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Postby Corth » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:57 pm

Keep kicking the dead horse...
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:05 pm

Corth wrote:Keep kicking the dead horse...


Hehe, it's not dead! It's bones and worms at this point hehe. I was nice and didn't mention it for 2 years. Figure it was time to dig it up again. I am a necromancer you know! WooWOO!

>:D<
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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:07 pm

Or.. atleast I think I was. It's been so long I hardly remember. :O
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:16 pm

Corth wrote:Keep kicking the dead horse...


Ignore the tribes bit, but.

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Postby Thilindel » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:18 am

Cuz it's fun to have the mass of people ask for something and even tho most seem to desire it, it's denied or ignored? :P
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Postby Corth » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:21 am

Mass of people, eh? :)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Latreg » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:10 pm

it certainly is a problem when you can't get 7 people to do Finn's Keep....

What I have noticed is evils are just rolling up good race alts and or playing good race mostly (like me) so the few hard core ones are the only ones who might not get to zone much. There was a resurgance in the evil population but that has faded again. There have been several people who have really given a lot of effort to boost the evil population and my hat goes off to them, but when you can go to GF,Seelie,BC as a good race that's hard to compete with what the evils are able to do. I don't know if lifting the grouping restrictions would help or hurt anything, I seriously doubt it would hurt anything. It might spark interest in evil races once people see them in action in a zone, it's hard to say really.
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Postby Corth » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:27 am

This is irrelevent. Toril 2.0 will be released one day and we'll have 200 people playing!
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Gormal » Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:29 am

With how many evils are changing their alignment to neutral nowadays, there's even a viable RP justification for this! I for one, feel bad that evils aren't getting to do much, and rolled up a neutral to group with them sometime. From what I've heard, there are a lot of undertrained players on the dark side of the racewar, and that turns off a lot of people from switching over. Why go spank a lot when you can stay goodie and get all the perks? I don't see myself rolling an evilrace character simply because I like to use my characters, and only a neutral one would get much use from me.
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Postby Yarash » Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:47 pm

I like the relaxed mentality of evilrace groups, and the honesty of their leaders.
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:46 pm

Corth wrote:This is irrelevent. Toril 2.0 will be released one day and we'll have 200 people playing!


While not sure if you're being cynical or not, who else besides me is kinda tired of nothing to do or hardly anybody to group with WHILE waiting for 2.0 for the last few months? Why not throw a bone meanwhile..
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Postby flib » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:59 am

ya, i made and leveled an evil to 50 during the resurgance and it was cool for awhile. what sucks though is atm my drow is useless he sits in vt and twiddles his thumbs waiting for something more frigging engaging than the minute possibility that "we might do crypts!" comes along. so i traded my bc evil cloak for the good version and mained this guy again. it really sucks having a useless character.. so ya.. i'd be behind the merging of the races.. do i think it will ever happen? neh.. I think alot of ppl like the split.. and are used to it.. ppl hate change.. heh.. but ya.. I think it could do nothing but help people be able to do more stuff if evils and goods could group together.. at least temporarily until... (hopefully) we get a new influx of people.. (or old friends back again) playing the mud..
Last edited by flib on Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tasan » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:36 am

Yarash wrote:I like the relaxed mentality of evilrace groups, and the honesty of their leaders.


Honest leaders? Lilithelle is an awful liar, why would you ever believe her?


As for lifting grouping restrictions... Might as well. Without a eq/pwipe, 2.0 will suffer the same problems already existing in the game now from overabundance of equipment.
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Postby moritheil » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:33 pm

Heck, I'd just like to be able to well other people to evilrace targets so that at least they can group. As it is, I get well requests, cast, and then . . . well fails. I then need to explain to the (usually incredulous) requester that I can't well to evilraces.

It's sad to see a group not happen because the only taxi logged on can't send essential people to where they need to go.
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Postby Thilindel » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:56 pm

moritheil wrote:It's sad to see a group not happen because the only taxi logged on can't send essential people to where they need to go.


I never could understand that when I was new for this version. You can follow, rescue, clair, and bandage evils..who knows what else. But you can't use their portals, etc. Pretty _strange_ to say the least. I really don't see why the heck this band-aid won't be addressed in the first place. I'm extremely bored as things have been the last few months. 11 evils and 13 goodies that can't group only makes for finding out what's on TV.
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Postby Gurns » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:22 am

moritheil wrote:It's sad to see a group not happen because the only taxi logged on can't send essential people to where they need to go.

It's sad to see a group not happen because people won't walk from point A to point B.
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Postby Tasan » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:02 am

Gurns wrote:It's sad to see a group not happen because people won't walk from point A to point B.


Are you out of yer mind? The world is like so big! It takes like totally forever to get anywhere! Especially when you have no idea how to get to places because you always just well/gate there! You retired folks need to stay out of this conversation because you have no frame of referance!
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Postby Raiwen » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:31 pm

Tasan wrote:Especially when you have no idea how to get to places because you always just well/gate there!

Why learn the way to anywhere? If you do, then the group leader might actually ASK you to do some work.. like RUN to the zone edge! *gasp*
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Postby moritheil » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:59 pm

Gurns wrote:
moritheil wrote:It's sad to see a group not happen because the only taxi logged on can't send essential people to where they need to go.

It's sad to see a group not happen because people won't walk from point A to point B.


Point taken, though it's also not always the case that someone can walk. If a zone takes just over an hour, and someone only has 1.5 hrs, it could well be impossible for them to zone because of 40 min. walk time (taking ferries, etc. into account.)
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Postby Tasan » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:41 am

40 minutes of walking time? I could _walk_ from GN to SkG to Ribcage in 40 minutes. Are you sending a warrior to walk places? :p Sheesh.
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Postby Guardias » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:43 pm

I felt the need to dredge this up.

I've played evil for about 90% of my time here on Toril, did some decent stuff, had alot of fun, and worked under some good leaders. The only problem was that I knew I'd never get near top-tier eq as an evil. We don't have enough people to do major zones, we don't have the most experienced or diverse groups either and organization is lacking.

I decided to level a goody, got him to zoneable level in a couple months of casual play. Less than a months worth of zones later I'm about 75% better equipped and I get to zone more than once or twice a week.

I know there are good players on both sides of this foolish racewar, I know that a lot more would get done if the racewars were abolished and people allowed to group with whoever, I know that newbies and alts alike would grow in abundance if people could group whomever they chose, and I know everyone here would love to see two zones happening at once, more than once in a blue moon.

I don't know how hard it would be to remove the restrictions, but frankly it can't be that hard. I know some will say to wait for 2.0, well I don't care if 2.0 is coming out next year or next month, this is a change that is long overdue. I know the joys of unrestricted grouping from my time on Homeland, it was awesome being able to zone with whatever race you wanted as long as you had the right class.

I closing: You should drop racewars, because it is'nt fun anymore (if it was ever fun) and frankly it will cause more zones to be done, newbies to be retained, and frankly increase the fun factor by 100%
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Postby kwirl » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:23 am

without pvp, racewar is frankly a bit silly. why not let people RP a racewar if they want, instead of forcing it?
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Postby Kegor » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:02 am

The dead horse comic above still applies to this thread I think.

Imo tho, I don't think there is race wars anymore. Goodies won a long time ago from a more in depth alt base, and leadership desiring that alt depth that the split in the pbase as a whole could not survive. There are just a few people that like to level evil race characters for fun and go fool around for whatever reasons now unknown to rest of the mud.

It would be cool if I could cash my 8 evil alts in for good raced ones, but I guess they had thier time. And that time is over.
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Postby Lilira » Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:29 pm

What about returning to outcasting? That would allow someone to choose but have 'a price to pay' to keep the RP flavor of the mud. Allow neut/evil humans to continue as going, but elves/half-elves/dwarves/halflings and barbs have to make a choice.

As much as you guys might holler about disliking RP, not going with it, etc... I see so many people with RP flags on all the time (even when AFK for hours *tease*). This mud IS an RP themed mud based on a specific world. Many of the players may decide not to play along when RP stuff happens, but the background mechanics etc should remain along the ROLE-PLAY the mud is built around. Otherwise, what's the point in playing?

"Hi, I'm here to play a hack-n-slash/magic game to do things I can't in real life.." oh wait.. hate to tell ya guys. *wink* That's role-play. Some of us just immerse ourselves more in it than others.

Would it be possible to create something that would do an auto outcast upon grouping with an evil race and slide it in with 2.0?
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Postby Todrael » Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:32 pm

I've been thinking about deleting Todrael and recreating as a human so that I would actually be able to log him on. Seems like too much work at this point, but still very tempting.

Evils have been dead for a long time, and Toril 2.0 won't change that if the group restrictions are still in place.
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Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:35 pm

Jaznolg wrote:It would be cool if I could cash my 8 evil alts in for good raced ones, but I guess they had thier time. And that time is over.


If that would have been done 3-4 years ago, you'd have a less divided pbase today, with more people zoning at the same time. I completely agree with your idea Jaznolg, 100%.

Yes, you'd have SOME people complaining, SOME would quit (for no obvious reason), but most would keep playing as their good-race equivalent. I don't see many whiners complaining over the loss of berserkers or mercenaries.

Anyone old enough to remember when only trolls and ogres existed? They were the only two evil races that existed (unless my memory is busted). The main purpose of having evil race characters was to have racewars.
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Postby alendar » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:23 pm

i dont know if this has been mentioned or even suggested..

but.... why not a resurrection type quest called reincarnate....

if an evil raced player "wanted" to become say a good race ... roll the dice and see what you become....

with some restrictions like 1/reincarnate per player per real life month?

not sure if this would be a solution or just another half hearted attempt to save the mud....

e.g. Rarlaj the 50th level orc shaman wishes to have reincarnate cast upon him....

Mage that quested this spell... casts reincarnate on Rarlaj....

Rarlaj wakes up in a strange new place....

Rarlaj types score to find himself a 40th level Dwarf Warrior....
since Rarlaj's skills were maxed as a 50th level shaman... he may (or maynot) have maxed skills of a 40th level warrior....

e.g. Rokladan the 25 level Elf warrior wishes to have a reincarnate spell cast on him....

wakes up as a 10 level duergar rogue... since Rokladan's skill were not maxed his skills would be at the same % of max as they were as the warrior....

e.g. a month later Rokladan cant stomach being a evil duergar he has the spell cast again.... wakes up as a 29 level human druid.... same applies...
skills at % of max as they were....

the only thing i can think of to stop abuse (you know it would be)...

would make it a spell require a spell component costing a boatload of plat or a very rare item.... like ic glimmering chain mail rare or even more rare....

flame as you wish...
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Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:30 pm

Cool idea Alen.
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Postby Ashiwi » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:13 pm

Get ready for a shocker...

I agree with this thread.

I don't necessarily agree that evils and goodies should group together, but that's mainly because I support a roleplayed atmosphere, and since it's been made very clear that Toril will probably never again be a gamewide roleplay-conducive atmosphere, then I don't see any point to such selective enforcement. I also don't see a point to the Forgotten Realms storyline, any reason to keep the zones theme-based, or the reason behind keeping any of a number of other restrictive measures within the game that have a roleplay foundation.

If every warrior ends up being a troll, so what? Isn't that the point of a powermud? Make everybody the same and see who comes out on top.
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