Racial Grouping Restrictions

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Llaaldara
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Racial Grouping Restrictions

Postby Llaaldara » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:21 pm

Stole this from another thread, but didn't want to derail. This has been my long running dead horse issue. I'm aware it's been talked to death, as I was usually in the conversation.

Zoldren wrote:
malakwee wrote:Can folks start suggesting what can be done for 1) retention of new
players and 2) retention of current players?



Theres been atleast 6 experienced evil players that have stopped playing since I came back because they whernt able to zone because of the lower pbase. or the 1 evil zone group /week had already left.

Multi and reboots would help.


And you could allow evils and goodies to group freely.

I still don't see what harm this would do at this point. I see more good then bad for exprs, zoners, and RP'rs. It could even be a temporarily thing like Multi day? or maybe only until 2.0 is released?

Can you just give it a shot at least? Just one week, or even a couple of days?!
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Postby Zoldren » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:31 pm

second
Botef
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Postby Botef » Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:25 pm

I can only see benefits from allowing interracial grouping at this juncture. I highly doubt you'd see lots and lots of people rolling evil characters because of their innates like so many nay-sayers seem to think would happen. Many of the active pbase already have evil alts that just collect dust.

The reality of the situation is that nearly half of active goodrace players right now were former evils or have evil alts. Allowing mixed grouping would mean that the number of available alts to utilize will be increased dramatically which means zone groups will be easier to form, and hopefully in more abundance.

The evil pbase isn't dead contrary to popular belief - its playing goodrace because of the higher availability of alts and core classes, the ease of forming groups (which isn't easy at all), and the frequency of zoning. Thats why so many of us switched. Without lots of alts to swap around zone groups don't happen because the ENTIRE pbase is short handed. You can argue that if so many of us have alts we should just zone as evil races instead, but thats not how things work when the pbase is so small.

Any other changes really won't be a benefit IMO short of a massive pbase increase. If evils were left as evils and had a resurgence at this point, the goodrace pbase would suffer the lose of a large number of its active players that already made the switch.

The pbase can't support both sides separately right now, we've seen that proven with the number of people who have switched from evil to good in the last few years. I say its time we find a solution instead of hoping something will happen while half of the races die out. Waiting for 2.0 imo isn't a solution because it still doesn't address the problem - there are not enough of us to play on one side or the other.
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Adriorn Darkcloak
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Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:14 pm

Or convert all evil race characters to good race characters and delete the rest. This should have been done 3-4 years ago when the evil race was practically extinct. Sucks to say it, many disagree, but it's what should have been done in my opinion, and the opinion of many others I have talked to. You'd have kept more people, even after some whiners would have quit, than you have on now. You'd have enough people to do 2-3 groups at once, as opposed to what you have now.

If you start playing this mud as a new player and only see good races as options, you wouldn't whine because you can't play evil races. I don't whine because I can't play Dragon in AD&D.

Hell, delete good races and make us all evil races, shrug. It's not about one race or another in my opinion at this point. Balance would be thrown off, as would the RP element always present in the game. And, like Botef said, the pbase can't support both sides. It probably never will again.

And yes, I know how nasty my opinion can be to some who ABSOLUTELY LOVE evil races. But like I said, either way works.
"There is one big rule in life - the things you worry about never happen, and the things that happen are never the ones you expect." - John Bellairs
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Postby Botef » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:16 pm

I'd hate to see such a large portion of content (zones/classes/races) disappear overnight, and as you said its a little late for that to have a significant impact.

I for one would be supportive of an alignment based grouping system in 2.0 rather than a racial system. Thats a major change though and one not everyone is going to agree with, but I think it solves the problem of evils not being able to compete for players while not diluting or taking away from the RP atmosphere. It would also potentially open a lot of content that half the mud never sees for both sides of the spectrum.
Sunamit group-says 'imrex west, tibek backstab touk i think his name is on entry'

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Yasden
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Postby Yasden » Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:16 pm

Not all of us quit evils because of lack of players. I led for as long as I could until it became a chore to babysit retards who didn't know their ass from a hole in the wall.

By retards, I mean the ones who pleveled in CM/DS etc., got 85% of their eq from auction (the rest was probably traded for by buying stuff from auction), and don't know what the hell these things are:

Glance bashing
Rolling spells
1 spell and out
Tog wimpy 300
Tog wimpy 0
TURN OFF AUTOBASH
TURN OFF BLIND TRIGS IN ZONES
Don't wander
Heal the tank first, not yourself
Quit scaling the casters in midfight, use stones dammit

...you get the point.

That's why I barely ever play evil anymore. I would totally play if my assoc would get their evils out once in a while and roll zones. I know there's plenty of talent out there on both sides, the problem is people need to teach new people how to zone in EASY, CR-ABLE ZONES like the planes, brass, tf, etc....not take them to the 2-3+ hour zones or Izan's and expect the same results as you would with a primo group.

I've taught my fair share of people over the years, and I'd gladly help anyone learn if they were willing. Problem is, no one seems to be willing to learn anymore.

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Postby loshaenar » Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:42 pm

essentially..i can't even find a single person to xp with at nights here, regardless of which class i switch to...goodrace, evilrace..

it's pretty pathetic...and we're still told no multi even to a limited degree, and ALSO can't group with the only other person who might be at keys because they're good/evilrace..

i mean if the pbase ever goes back up to the point where these restrictions might have a vague sense of being applicable again..fine..change it..

but for gods sake... just a little thought about this issue would be really appreciated.. there is literally.. nothing else we can do... no zone, no exp, no questing, no boots..
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Postby Kegor » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:03 am

I've said my piece on this issue too many times. Don't really care to say it again.

Listening to some good ideas the players have about keeping the players playing, would probably be a smart play.
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Postby Dalar » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:19 am

Relying on Toril 2.0 to revive the playerbase with MMOs in their current popularity is silly. What's the point of even making Toril 2.0 when you can't even keep Toril 1.0's playerbase?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby moritheil » Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:13 pm

Yasden wrote:By retards, I mean the ones who pleveled in CM/DS etc., got 85% of their eq from auction (the rest was probably traded for by buying stuff from auction), and don't know what the hell these things are:

Glance bashing
Rolling spells
1 spell and out
Tog wimpy 300
Tog wimpy 0
TURN OFF AUTOBASH
TURN OFF BLIND TRIGS IN ZONES
Don't wander
Heal the tank first, not yourself
Quit scaling the casters in midfight, use stones dammit

...you get the point.

-Targsk


That sounds like 95% of the people who I started zoning with back in the day. We learned all that stuff painfully and thoroughly :P ("I'm just going to go take a closer look at this dragon, brb." "NO WAIT- sigh. Okay, let's reform group at wd inn.")

I think the current emphasis on doing zones efficiently and cleanly is good, because it saves time, but it's also bad because it spawned this situation where we don't have as much patience.

For that matter . . . to address Losh's point and the CM issue, we have a situation where in many cases it is not efficient for a group to take on extra people. I have seen both zone groups and XP groups (or solo XPers) do the math in their head and conclude that it's just not worth it. In order to change this behavior we simply must make it always worth it to take on more people.
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Postby sok » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:34 pm

Yasden wrote:Heal the tank first, not yourself
-Targsk


what kind of fool would heal others first? if you die you can't heal anyone. obviously you were never a cleric.
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Postby Dalar » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:54 pm

you don't need to be at full hp if you're not tanking and no areas are incoming. here's another tip, tanks should be wearing 200 armor
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Teyaha » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:29 am

Yasden wrote:Not all of us quit evils because of lack of players. I led for as long as I could until it became a chore to babysit retards who didn't know their ass from a hole in the wall.

By retards, I mean the ones who pleveled in CM/DS etc., got 85% of their eq from auction (the rest was probably traded for by buying stuff from auction), and don't know what the hell these things are:

Glance bashing
Rolling spells
1 spell and out
Tog wimpy 300
Tog wimpy 0
TURN OFF AUTOBASH
TURN OFF BLIND TRIGS IN ZONES
Don't wander
Heal the tank first, not yourself
Quit scaling the casters in midfight, use stones dammit

...you get the point.

That's why I barely ever play evil anymore. I would totally play if my assoc would get their evils out once in a while and roll zones. I know there's plenty of talent out there on both sides, the problem is people need to teach new people how to zone in EASY, CR-ABLE ZONES like the planes, brass, tf, etc....not take them to the 2-3+ hour zones or Izan's and expect the same results as you would with a primo group.

I've taught my fair share of people over the years, and I'd gladly help anyone learn if they were willing. Problem is, no one seems to be willing to learn anymore.

-Targsk


<3 yasden

sometimes i think i should have just stuck with the warrior this last time around even t hough there were so many in the beginning.

those were the days though. sometimes i really miss the old order of the wyrm. current mmorpg's just cant capture that magic
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Postby ssar » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:56 am

Hey Targsk I'm glad you didnt list the cruicial "gcmd OMFG my DEATH PACT is out!!" trig there - it owns.

/ontopic

Yeah, more multi days! yea,.
BEER
Llaaldara
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Postby Llaaldara » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:21 pm

Plz Mr, stop derailing my thread. You wouldn't like me when you derail my thread.

The topic is loosing the racial restriction on grouping either on limited days of the week/month, or even only until 2.0 is released because of the current state of the player base.

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