Toril 2.0: Interim Changes

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Corth
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Postby Corth » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:51 pm

Give Verarb an artifact already! Sheesh. The guy kisses more immort ass than a male prostitute. Hes a perfect candidate to receive the benefit of god favoritism. And fyi, he won't admit it but Verarb = Kurz.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Dalar » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:55 pm

kurz is asian
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Corth » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:35 pm

Coincidentally, so is Verarb!
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby kiryan » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:09 pm

exp split / code. We should encourage people to play together not punish them for bringing inexperienced poorly equipped players.

On the other hand, we should not reward people who leech exp afk. I think this should be a function of administration rather than trying to create exp advantages if you keep your group tight and efficient
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Postby Teyaha » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:42 pm

bawog wrote:I'd seriously, constructivly, honestly, beggingly request a pwimpe to give everyone a fair playing field. To much equipment int he game as is, and its only getting worse.


i dont buy that

just have to look at the auction house

i see the very same people who have 4 or 5 well geared characters outbidding everyone else on sub-standard gear daily, and i see th eauction house flooded with useless crap like wedding rings

if you have too much, start handing it out to people that actually dont have any. but dont excpect everyone else to have eto be naked due to the mass greed that has always been associated with this game.


xxxx tells you 'ask Ross. he has 8 level 50 rogues.'


i mean if you guys have that many chars, and you want gear for all those characters without sharing between them like we used to do...i dont know. i dont see how there can be a bandaid for anything at this point. all the auction house is is a place for you to give each other your plats and your gears - among the same dozen or so people. that's not really an economy.

and 8 o fthe same class? that's extremely silly imo
Last edited by Teyaha on Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Raiwen » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:46 pm

kiryan wrote:On the other hand, we should not reward people who leech exp afk.

implement captcha's... woo graphics!
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Postby Dalar » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:52 am

Teyaha wrote:
bawog wrote:I'd seriously, constructivly, honestly, beggingly request a pwimpe to give everyone a fair playing field. To much equipment int he game as is, and its only getting worse.


i dont buy that

just have to look at the auction house

i see the very same people who have 4 or 5 well geared characters outbidding everyone else on sub-standard gear daily, and i see th eauction house flooded with useless crap like wedding rings

if you have too much, start handing it out to people that actually dont have any. but dont excpect everyone else to have eto be naked due to the mass greed that has always been associated with this game.


xxxx tells you 'ask Ross. he has 8 level 50 rogues.'


i mean if you guys have that many chars, and you want gear for all those characters without sharing between them like we used to do...i dont know. i dont see how there can be a bandaid for anything at this point. all the auction house is is a place for you to give each other your plats and your gears - among the same dozen or so people. that's not really an economy.

and 8 o fthe same class? that's extremely silly imo


What else are you going to do when you have maxxed exp on a char? Make another DUH
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby bawog » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:52 am

i dont buy that

just have to look at the auction house

i see the very same people who have 4 or 5 well geared characters outbidding everyone else on sub-standard gear daily, and i see th eauction house flooded with useless crap like wedding rings

if you have too much, start handing it out to people that actually dont have any. but dont excpect everyone else to have eto be naked due to the mass greed that has always been associated with this game.


xxxx tells you 'ask Ross. he has 8 level 50 rogues.'


i mean if you guys have that many chars, and you want gear for all those characters without sharing between them like we used to do...i dont know. i dont see how there can be a bandaid for anything at this point. all the auction house is is a place for you to give each other your plats and your gears - among the same dozen or so people. that's not really an economy.

and 8 o fthe same class? that's extremely silly imo


Well to be perfectly honest I only have 2.5 sets of gear, and why not more or less, i because I myself DO give out gear to people that are starting off, and/or people who need some higher end items. I'm not one to horde endless equipment but quite the contrary, I give away or seel stuff on auction for those people. And what else is there to do in terms of keeping ourselves occupied, we level up alts, and when those are finished we start off with new ones, until we end up rolling the same class different race. So inconclusion to yer post, I agree an equipment wipe would hurt the mud in the begining, however in the long run I'd have more fun re gearing myself and my alts. And yea the sets of equipment I do have took me ages to collect with questing doing zones 500 million times, but I'd to it all again for the fun of it (and no i'm not volunteering to cough up my gear and start from scratch )

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Postby Teyaha » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:23 am

bawog wrote:
i dont buy that

just have to look at the auction house

i see the very same people who have 4 or 5 well geared characters outbidding everyone else on sub-standard gear daily, and i see th eauction house flooded with useless crap like wedding rings

if you have too much, start handing it out to people that actually dont have any. but dont excpect everyone else to have eto be naked due to the mass greed that has always been associated with this game.


xxxx tells you 'ask Ross. he has 8 level 50 rogues.'


i mean if you guys have that many chars, and you want gear for all those characters without sharing between them like we used to do...i dont know. i dont see how there can be a bandaid for anything at this point. all the auction house is is a place for you to give each other your plats and your gears - among the same dozen or so people. that's not really an economy.

and 8 o fthe same class? that's extremely silly imo


Well to be perfectly honest I only have 2.5 sets of gear, and why not more or less, i because I myself DO give out gear to people that are starting off, and/or people who need some higher end items. I'm not one to horde endless equipment but quite the contrary, I give away or seel stuff on auction for those people. And what else is there to do in terms of keeping ourselves occupied, we level up alts, and when those are finished we start off with new ones, until we end up rolling the same class different race. So inconclusion to yer post, I agree an equipment wipe would hurt the mud in the begining, however in the long run I'd have more fun re gearing myself and my alts. And yea the sets of equipment I do have took me ages to collect with questing doing zones 500 million times, but I'd to it all again for the fun of it (and no i'm not volunteering to cough up my gear and start from scratch )

Nerox


and that's the fallacy of the entire 'wipe eq thre's too much'

i've seen a lot of new people wearing pretty bad gear. it's great that you yourself gave some out - but i can guarantee you there's a lot more that could be handed down to make new players lives a little less of a pain

or at the very least, dont over-inflate prices at the auction house so returning players can at least gear one character. that would be a good start too


i dont see how it's even possible to address that level of eq inflation actually. there was a time when having 1.5 sets of useable gear was considered exceptional.

dinok i think is his name? he's got two buds - deler and..seler..seref..something...that could use a lot of good gear. i mean, things better than purple earthstone rings to put it into perspective. i handed out the hitter gear that i have that wasnt useable by mages, thiefs or bards already, but even with that i'venever had a full set of any type of gear

i find it hard to believe ou guys have fully decked out even one character with the top piece in each slot. at least not so many of you

if you really have, then there are other problems with this mud
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Postby Botef » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:47 am

[sorry for derailing!]

Auction was never intended to be a one stop shop for decking out your characters. That should be done through zoning and actual accomplishments. The high end gear is super inflated on auction because people are willing to pay those prices for the convenience of not having to put in the time to get the item, especially so with the decrease in zoning. I'd say players today have a heck of a lot easier time eqing their char on auction now then they did 3 years ago.

If anything prices have dropped on auction quite a bit in recent years. Only the very high-end stuff is inflated and even then its not much of an inflation at all if any. Stuff that used to sell for upwards of 2k and beyond now sell for less than half that, if not nothing. Meilech leggings, elemental rings, calcite amulets, and just about all the regular musp items used to be big sellers a few years ago. Now they hardly even sell. The value of these items will never increase again unless the stats are boosted (poor band-aid) or more are removed from the game (questing/eq wipe). If anything that is proof enough that the game is overloaded with mid-range, and to an extent higher end, eq.

I'd still say 1.5 sets of gear is more than acceptable for someone who only plays one class type. Whats changed isn't the demand for equipment but the demand for classes and alt characters. We need alts right now because thats what assures zone groups form.

I don't think anyone is trying to imply the majority has the best of the best in every slot. Its more along the lines that there is little room for improvement, so the few items that are able to boost you that extra point of AC or HP's are from your perspective over inflated on auction or in trades while the left over mid-range gear suffers massive devaluation.

Besides, if everyone handed out all their loose eq it wouldn't make for a very exciting game anyways.
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Postby Teyaha » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:58 am

Botef wrote:[sorry for derailing!]


I don't think anyone is trying to imply the majority has the best of the best in every slot. Its more along the lines that there is little room for improvement, so the few items that are able to boost you that extra point of AC or HP's are from your perspective over inflated on auction or in trades while the left over mid-range gear suffers massive devaluation.

Besides, if everyone handed out all their loose eq it wouldn't make for a very exciting game anyways.


that's not what i'm saying (or said) at all

mid to low tier gear shouldnt be selling for 500 p. that's just that. the people who are actually going to take advantage of it as a real upgrade dont have 500p to burn on one slot

for example - how is a 15hp 15 mana mask worth 400p? saw that go today and i nearly crapped myself.
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Postby Botef » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:37 am

I guess I dont see what your saying. If someone wants to spend 400 p on a mask like that instead of getting it from going to a zone whats the issue? The item in reference here quite regularly sells for that much and has for quite a few years. I don't see why theres any complaint about a new player paying for items they don't have access to via zoning from the standpoint of it being unfair for the new player. If their not high enough level to do the zone they at least have the option of buying them on auction. I also wouldn't say 400 p for an item like that is too high for someone who's going to use it - save for the fact that that item would probably just be handed out free to a new player anyways. This is again a prime example of how the abundance of said eq and stat escalation has devalued its worth from your perspective. 4 years ago that was a pretty decent face item for up and coming mages.

Its bad enough new players expect this kind of equipment from the get go and only serves to further disillusion them when they do zones like Muspelheim for the first time and discover they've already had these items for a long time, and can regularly get them on auction.

At any rate Im done derailing this thread.
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Postby Teyaha » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:01 am

unfortunately unless you are a caster, you are so severely gimped by poor gear at low levels it really is an equation in the overall formula that is keeping toril alive
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:29 pm

8)

Remove weapon fumbling. When you roll really bad to attack, you just miss.
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Postby Ifin » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:32 pm

(For Band-Aid 2)

- Increase lvl 49 xp to +15% of pre-band-aid change. The newbie game needed a boost, but not once you reach these levels - level 50 should be a long trial to attain - either you do staight xp, or try not to die and get there over time zoning. At lvl 49 you can already zone etc., so I don't see it being a detriment to the entire game.

- Decrease lvl 50 spellcaster xp -5% pre-band-aid change. Spellcasters often have to mem out, and I think it should be a tad easier for them to obtain a buffer once they reach lvl 50.

- Put back 10th circle spell stutter. Random variable are good, it separates people who can *react* to different situations, or prepare adequately, to those who can't. Removing it just keeps making the game more mechanical, more boring. RP-wise these are the elite spells, hard to master, of course you might stutter sometime. Stutter a couple times (which rarely happens), then you improvise. Don't make the game 100% mechanical.
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Postby Malvareth » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:31 pm

Teyaha wrote:unfortunately unless you are a caster, you are so severely gimped by poor gear at low levels it really is an equation in the overall formula that is keeping toril alive


It's true.

Levels 1-10 aren't so bad, the mobs are really easy and Scardale is a lovely place.

10-20 starts to become a bit of a challenge. You can probably kill mobs, but you have to take resting breaks after each one (might not be as bad now with the regen boost).

After level 20, if you're wearing only whatever you've found, leveling alone becomes hellishly difficult. You've most likely found perhaps one or two items with actual stats, maybe bought some slightly better armor from a store, and you're using a 2d4 weapon or something. Killing easy-con mobs can be very risky, sometimes even impossible for the warrior with ac25 and 6hit/5dam. Getting much further than level 20 this way is a test of patience far greater than what I'd expect a new player to endure, and by the looks of it, most of them don't.

Equipment for these levels is simply too hard to get. Yes, there is equipment that can be attained, but it's placed sporadically all over the world, or in quests, both of which are usually out of the reach of a new player who's still learning commands and has no idea where they are.

I think questing is an area that hasn't been fully utilized for the purpose of integrating new players. To me, quests have always been this unfathomable concept that I hear about from the veterans. "Yeah, I just finished questing for my weapon, it took 4 months..." is not particularly encouraging. A new player has no idea where to get quests, and if they manage to get them, they'll have no idea how to complete them. They often involve finding mobs or items that the player has no chance of knowing where to get.

It would be fantastic if each class had a series of quests that were straight-forward but challenging, and would last them until level 30 or so while equipping them with decent gear. As much as I hate to compare this game to one like WoW, I'd much rather know where to go and fight some challenging mobs than have no idea where I'm supposed to search and pick up a berry from the floor. Imagine how many things it would fix if a rogue could start at level 1 and go through a series of quests that span from 1 to 30, numerous and challenging but not needlessly confusing, and end up with:
1) A better knowledge of the game world,
2) A set of equipment that gives him 12 hitroll and 18 damroll.

That would take a lot of time and work to write and implement, though.
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Postby Kifle » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:11 pm

Malvareth wrote:
Teyaha wrote:unfortunately unless you are a caster, you are so severely gimped by poor gear at low levels it really is an equation in the overall formula that is keeping toril alive


It's true.

Levels 1-10 aren't so bad, the mobs are really easy and Scardale is a lovely place.

10-20 starts to become a bit of a challenge. You can probably kill mobs, but you have to take resting breaks after each one (might not be as bad now with the regen boost).

After level 20, if you're wearing only whatever you've found, leveling alone becomes hellishly difficult. You've most likely found perhaps one or two items with actual stats, maybe bought some slightly better armor from a store, and you're using a 2d4 weapon or something. Killing easy-con mobs can be very risky, sometimes even impossible for the warrior with ac25 and 6hit/5dam. Getting much further than level 20 this way is a test of patience far greater than what I'd expect a new player to endure, and by the looks of it, most of them don't.

Equipment for these levels is simply too hard to get. Yes, there is equipment that can be attained, but it's placed sporadically all over the world, or in quests, both of which are usually out of the reach of a new player who's still learning commands and has no idea where they are.

I think questing is an area that hasn't been fully utilized for the purpose of integrating new players. To me, quests have always been this unfathomable concept that I hear about from the veterans. "Yeah, I just finished questing for my weapon, it took 4 months..." is not particularly encouraging. A new player has no idea where to get quests, and if they manage to get them, they'll have no idea how to complete them. They often involve finding mobs or items that the player has no chance of knowing where to get.

It would be fantastic if each class had a series of quests that were straight-forward but challenging, and would last them until level 30 or so while equipping them with decent gear. As much as I hate to compare this game to one like WoW, I'd much rather know where to go and fight some challenging mobs than have no idea where I'm supposed to search and pick up a berry from the floor. Imagine how many things it would fix if a rogue could start at level 1 and go through a series of quests that span from 1 to 30, numerous and challenging but not needlessly confusing, and end up with:
1) A better knowledge of the game world,
2) A set of equipment that gives him 12 hitroll and 18 damroll.

That would take a lot of time and work to write and implement, though.


Put class quests in the training halls. Have the instructor tell them to visit so and so when they train their abilities at certain levels. Have small quests in level appropriate zones that are hinted at (mob name to start) in training halls as well. You could have class trainers hand them pieces of paper with, lets say, a crude map and some name to start a quest. Just make it to where they get the quest somewhere where they "must" go as they level up. Make the begining apparent, but make the quest normal difficulty.
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Postby Teyaha » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:36 pm

Malvareth wrote:
Teyaha wrote:unfortunately unless you are a caster, you are so severely gimped by poor gear at low levels it really is an equation in the overall formula that is keeping toril alive


It's true.

Levels 1-10 aren't so bad, the mobs are really easy and Scardale is a lovely place.

10-20 starts to become a bit of a challenge. You can probably kill mobs, but you have to take resting breaks after each one (might not be as bad now with the regen boost).

After level 20, if you're wearing only whatever you've found, leveling alone becomes hellishly difficult. You've most likely found perhaps one or two items with actual stats, maybe bought some slightly better armor from a store, and you're using a 2d4 weapon or something. Killing easy-con mobs can be very risky, sometimes even impossible for the warrior with ac25 and 6hit/5dam. Getting much further than level 20 this way is a test of patience far greater than what I'd expect a new player to endure, and by the looks of it, most of them don't.

Equipment for these levels is simply too hard to get. Yes, there is equipment that can be attained, but it's placed sporadically all over the world, or in quests, both of which are usually out of the reach of a new player who's still learning commands and has no idea where they are.

I think questing is an area that hasn't been fully utilized for the purpose of integrating new players. To me, quests have always been this unfathomable concept that I hear about from the veterans. "Yeah, I just finished questing for my weapon, it took 4 months..." is not particularly encouraging. A new player has no idea where to get quests, and if they manage to get them, they'll have no idea how to complete them. They often involve finding mobs or items that the player has no chance of knowing where to get.

It would be fantastic if each class had a series of quests that were straight-forward but challenging, and would last them until level 30 or so while equipping them with decent gear. As much as I hate to compare this game to one like WoW, I'd much rather know where to go and fight some challenging mobs than have no idea where I'm supposed to search and pick up a berry from the floor. Imagine how many things it would fix if a rogue could start at level 1 and go through a series of quests that span from 1 to 30, numerous and challenging but not needlessly confusing, and end up with:
1) A better knowledge of the game world,
2) A set of equipment that gives him 12 hitroll and 18 damroll.

That would take a lot of time and work to write and implement, though.


to be fair though, the system works when there are plenty of groups like after the initial wipe of soj3

doesnt work so well when there arent so many groups though
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Postby Dalar » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:48 pm

You didn't need groups at the pwipe. I solo'd from 1-30+ and used SS gear. Some of the best moments I've had this wipe were during the beginning.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Birile » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:03 pm

Dalar wrote:Some of the best moments I've had this wipe were during the beginning.


Those are some of the moments that are indelible in all of our memories. Anyone who has brought up the idea of even an eq-wipe, let alone a pwipe, has been shot down. *shrug*
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Postby Latreg » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:13 pm

Yayaril wrote:8)

Remove weapon fumbling. When you roll really bad to attack, you just miss.


I would love to see this, create a lag like disarm or something. Seems many of the decent and new weapons are !drop anyway, let's just fix them all. I have a couple of weapons I won't use because loosing them in a crash would just suck. I think that's why you don't see a big variety of weapons, well one reason anyway. Most tanks carry an ebony and or ic2 axe. I might try some 2h weapons if there was no fumble. I think there are a lot of cool weapons that aren't used because of fumble and other reasons of course.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:37 pm

Birile wrote:
Dalar wrote:Some of the best moments I've had this wipe were during the beginning.


Those are some of the moments that are indelible in all of our memories. Anyone who has brought up the idea of even an eq-wipe, let alone a pwipe, has been shot down. *shrug*


eqwipe is kinda silly. you get lvl 50's to bulldoze easy zones still. was fun when you had to level w/ no gear.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Ragorn » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:44 pm

Dalar wrote:You didn't need groups at the pwipe. I solo'd from 1-30+ and used SS gear. Some of the best moments I've had this wipe were during the beginning.

How many years had you been playing the game before this wipe?

Would a brand new player have the same experience you did?
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Postby Birile » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:31 pm

Ragorn wrote:
Dalar wrote:You didn't need groups at the pwipe. I solo'd from 1-30+ and used SS gear. Some of the best moments I've had this wipe were during the beginning.

How many years had you been playing the game before this wipe?

Would a brand new player have the same experience you did?


FWIW, I started just after the last pwipe... in 2001/2002? It took me almost a year to get Birile to lvl 50 whereas newbies who stick around nowadays have several lvl 50 characters running around in a few months. Granted, when I started was before the huge change to bards who were basically laughed at before that change, but *shrug*. I'd say my first two years were the most fun I ever had on this MUD.
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Postby Ifin » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:43 pm

I would just like to say, I started about 3 years ago, as a warrior. And yes, there were times I had to solo a lot.

And yeah, I remember good times, like Sok's rogue giving me a Rhemo cloak in the cemetary (bet you don't remember that), Sotana running past me on BGR, doubling back, giving me barkskin (which helped A TON), Jake and Aerisia taking me up to Demi.

But

For all the experienced players, everything isn't new anymore, so I doubt that re-levelling would create that kind of memories.

And back then, just *sitting in WD* was fun. I could see groups forming, people shouting about trades, and general chatter about the MUD and OOC in just under the inn. I could see at least 5-6 high end guilds, the comardrie, and how cool it would be to join one later on.

I knew that it was *worth it* to grind it to high levels b/c of all the activity which I could *see*, but may not have participated in.

Now, they don't see high end activity. Now they never run into people in HP, IC, BGR, much less DS at times. Now they don't see massive groups of people talking, assembling, winding down, etc. in the cities.

*THAT* is the difference between what we're asking newbies to do now and then. The newbie experience will *never* be like all you old schoolers, or even me, 3 years back, enjoyed because we've passed that critical mass point.
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Postby Gukov » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:07 pm

Few thoughts on other possible changes, primarily affecting evilrace I suppose.

It might be kinda nice if the amount of potions that can be quaffed were related to body mass of the char, especially for ogres of course. This could somewhat offset some of the crit-magnet handicaps if you were able to quaff like 2x the heal/stone potions of most other races. Idea being that toxicity of a substance is often calculated as some mg per kg or what have you. Would suck to have to farm potions for that purpose but for people who are big fans of large races it might be worth it. I suppose there could be some base amount of potions per day for all races/sizes, and then incrementally increase the allowed quaffage above 200 lbs or whatever sort of like how enlarged/embodied people can drink/eat a lot more.

I've whined via the idea command for some time to have duergar innate strength increase in duration a la innate invisibility. At the moment the duration is hella short even at 50.

Yuan-ti poison proc with snakebite :-D

Allowing additional classes for a variety of races would be nice. I never understood why orcs can't be necros. Not that anyone would play it. Still, it's the principle of the thing! Duergar/Yuan-ti shamans would be nice and fit with themes in their hometowns already.

Almost seems futile to bring it up again, but ogre wielding a two-hander one-handed!

That's all my scatterbrained thoughts for the moment.

-Jim
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Postby Corth » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:26 pm

Shouldn't Ogres have to use twice the amount of potions in order to get the same effect? Higher dose! :)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Lilira » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:06 am

Should have drow bards. *nod me* Bards, not bchanters. Drow are too sophisticated to have clannish bchanters.
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Postby Sarell » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:32 am

Allow CP to have multi and no group limit until it gets done once.

Add a 1% load per hour pack of patrolling/global character sniffing out trolls or thieves to VT, DK, WD, BG to keep people on their toes.

Give Verarb an awesome artifact with a pkill, !rent & lootable flag (both ways). Load on Lord P if it gets lost/rented/crash.

Remove the BBS so that the 50 people who use it and don't play have to log on to annoy people.

Try removing blur, scales and displace and have only chanters get stone. Increase warrior partial (significantly), parry, dodge, block rate.

THOSE EVIL RACES - I think dayblind is kinda cool still. Makes you plan! You can do any zone without a psi and most arn't outdoors anyhow. Duergars are way cooler than dwarfs too. Only thing that could make them more powerful would be dooger rangers. Yuan-ti have an absurd number of bonuses. Remember when they went in they had no ears or feet to lower them because they were so buff, then they added tail slot, then they added tail rings with more HP than you can get combined on all the missing slots!
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Postby Lilira » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:58 am

I agree with dayblind!

Good lord it made me learn my way around unless I wanted to wait til night time! Also made me learn my way around the Underdark which was just FUN! Though just not as aggro as it should be imo. Running around in UD should put this ache between your shoulders... from being tensed up while waiting for something mean to pounce as you're wandering around.

I get that feeling when doing small groups in Musp or Jot and I get left behind. Probably cus I've never learned my way around up there.

Being evil should be hard. Says it in the character creation menu.
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You group-say 'my chars will carry the component on them if I can.'
Inama group-says 'hopefully they'll have some sort of volume discounts on ress items for people like you'
You group-say 'oh? Ya think? *giggle*'
Inama group-says 'they could at least implement frequent dier miles'

Suzalize group-says 'oh, eya's over weight i bet'
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Postby Dalar » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:46 pm

How about upping the duration of some spells like vitality, dragonscales (duration, not chipping), blur etc. It's pretty frustrating to have one guy AFK or cast the wrong spell in the wrong order and have to wait for spells to drop.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Larem » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:27 am

I think you guys are missing the whole point of this. There is one very large problem with the mud that has not been addressed in anyone's post. I've spent the last hour at work reading this stuff and I must say, you all bitch too much about things that aren't that big of a deal, like eq and alts.

The problem I see and have chosen to take the time to point out, since none of you wankers have, is warriors.

I can understand a sneak attack from a rogue doing more damage than a warrior, but in straight combat, why the hell does a rogue do 2-20x the damage a warrior does?

Don't give me that it's the dam roll or khanjari crap. I'm totally serious. It's insulting to anyone who plays a warrior to think that you can't solo any lvl 50 mob that's not a priest or mage w/o shield up because you can't do any damage.

I've got several warriors. I have had all sorts of setups, from nothing but hp's and svs, to total damage sets. Usually i run with only rings for hp eq now, on a barbarian warrior, if you hit your con notch, and have 2 60 hp rings, you'll have almost 1k hp at level 50, that's all you really need. Larem runs with around 24/42 hit/dam. That's pretty decent.

Given the fact that I wield a SWORD rather than a 6 inch long DAGGER, I'm very put off by the fact that even if I was wielding a Valhalla Scepter that I'd still only do about 1/10th of the damage that a rogue can do, I'm not talking khanjari, give any lvl 50 rogue even fire daggers and they still out damage a warrior.

To me a warrior is an all around fighter, their sole purpose is to make war, where as a rogue has many purposes, none of which is to wage war, hence sneak/hide/backstab. They are more the type to do covert hit and run assassinations, not walk into a dragon's den and pick a fight.

I know this is far from the first time I've brought this subject up, and I'm sure it won't be the last, since I'm usually ignored. I don't have much in the way of sujestions to fix this, but I do have a rudementary idea.

Add +5d+10 to all 1h swords, add +10d+15 to all 2h swords, and make it so that there is no dagger/knife in the game that is over 3d4. As far as bludgeon and misc weapons go, they would need adjusting too, and this of course would have to be made so rogues can't wield the other types of weapons, because it's not in their class role to do so.

Maybe my idea to fix this isn't the best, infact i'm sure it isn't. But you get my point, if not lets put it this way.

I don't care if the dagger is magical or not, against a dragon's scales a 6 inch blade is only gonna penetrate 6 inchs, now compaired to an average 3 foot bastard sword.....................which do you think would inflict more damage to internal organs?
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Postby Zoldren » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:32 pm

Actualy Larem, rogues should be able to use short swords, but not longswords, but that would require a breakout of that code to i assume...But I agree with the rest of your post.

But warriors are only in game to rescue and bash atm..their skills are way under balanced because all the buffs are over balanced. its been ignored before your right, and probably will again.
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Postby Teyaha » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:51 am

there was a time when 40 dmg was godly

then everything got nerfed

then new things were put in to make even the old time stuff look like split shield trash


vicious cycle
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Postby Tasan » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:38 pm

Larem wrote:Maybe my idea to fix this isn't the best, infact i'm sure it isn't. But you get my point, if not lets put it this way.


Why would you post that in a band-aid thread. That is like open-heart surgery compared to the small fixes others have talked about. Get a clue?

This is a discussion thread about interim fixes before 2.0 just to keep the game going. Start your own "I don't read the Dev posts for 2.0 thread so I have to complain about this topic" thread if you're going to complain like that.
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Postby Sarell » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:37 am

Dalar wrote:How about upping the duration of some spells like vitality, dragonscales (duration, not chipping), blur etc. It's pretty frustrating to have one guy AFK or cast the wrong spell in the wrong order and have to wait for spells to drop.


I was thinking exactly the opposite earlier today! Drop dragonscales time to 20 seconds (or remove it as previously posted) so that someone might actually die in a zone and chanting isn't so singularly faceted. Give the warriors something to watch out for!

As Ifin said, bring back spell stutter on 10th circles, but perhaps only in rooms where there is combat? Solves the horrible moonwell timesink.
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Postby Larem » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:43 am

tasan um....thanks for wasting a post just to bitch because you think that you know what is a sujestion for an "adhesive strip" update and what isn't. As far as I'm concerned, what I wrote was exactly the type of thing that has been sujested already and been implimented in the first 2 additions to the game.

now that that is out of the way, here's a couple more sujestions:

Make arena combat spob-like and random. Players can only enter nakid, and can pick up random semi god-like artifacts from low level mobs placed randomly through out the 4 arenas. This would make things more interesting and weed out the disadvantage of people (read rogues) walking in with a khanjari and owning all. I know it's more than just khanjari that does this, any rogue at level 50 can pretty much own any warrior at level 50. This type of change would be more along the lines of making classes equal to eachother by putting them all on the same playing field, eq wise. That way, under equipt level 50 warriors can face other warriors, w/o fear of being valhalla'd to death because your SF longsword didn't proc enough. A lot of people refuse to enter arena for combative fun because they don't wanna face someone better equipt than they are.

Fix the over-looked eq. I know of several pieces of eq that were overlooked when the rest of the zone was redone due to risk vs. reward. Some of the upgrades were a little much, but the fact that certain pieces were completely over looked is discouraging. Sure, they are from quests, sure they are difficult to aquire and figure out, sure, I've mentioned this before, please finally fix them. See: ttf/hulburg :)

Make certain types of dragon breath actually work. There are a couple places throughout the mud where there are dragons that breath different types of breath rather than the 5 mains, f/c/g/a/l. Shadow breath is an example. I do not fear any dragon that breaths this, and I should. While I'm on the subject of dragon breaths, what ever happend to haste+lightning breath = bad? Any way we can put it to if you're hasted and hit with lightning breath you have a 75% chance of being morted, and a 25% chance of instant death? Perhaps also give gas breath an 80% chance of making you abort casting, and or stun you for a round?

Bring back mob and self KO's from headbutt. One of my fondest memories was when I was in a group doing smoke invasion, 2 warriors, I was one of them, and I got an enlarge and landed a headbutt on the General in the first round, and Ko'd myself, leaving the group with 1 tank, we spanked. Gawd that was fun. There was another time when I was able to knock Ordack out in the first round, that's a good feeling as a warrior.

as Sarell brought up moonwell casting time, i'm gonna follow into a druid related post.

Put creeping doom, now that it has the potential to do 50 hp of damage if all 3 waves hit a mob, to the same state as other dragging spells, where it DOES NOT MISS A WAVE OR MORE IF DRAG'D INTO ANOTHER ROOM. You've down'd the damage on it, which was the offical reason for making it miss. Give druid's some fuggin love already. The quest for creeping doom isn't very fun to do, and given the risk vs. reward ratio, it's just not worth questing if you consider the items you have to give up for it.

Make Verarb a statue, and make a smaller statue of Kifle, humping it's leg. Place the statue at the road crossing north of WD where it can be plainly viewed by all.

I think that's it for now, I'm sure I'll be posting more, since I'm currently unable to play the mud until I finish moving.

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Postby Dalar » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:28 pm

Is there going to be a round 3?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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