Re: Quest Item Hoarding and Trading.

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Re: Quest Item Hoarding and Trading.

Postby Dalar » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:24 pm

I'm going to assume this post is in response to Teyaha's new elementalist because he's the only one who has been asking. If so, that's ridiculous because iceberry/skymetal are rare and people need them for alts. Hell I even need one for my 40 enchanter (follow the rules guys and fork it over). How about you make another relocate quest that doesn't require rare loads to do or put it at the end of a decent zone?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Teyaha » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:33 pm

doh what post?

anyway i've given up on that character seeing as how i'm unwilling to fork over cash for an iceberry. not because i feel i'm entitled to free shit, but because 1) it's statless 2) it's againt the rules to sell them.

if you would like my chunk dalar talk to me in game.

edit: n/m <--- lrn2read
Last edited by Teyaha on Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dalar » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:43 pm

Also, I think these rules need to be changed to reflect current quests. Sadly, the one that comes to mind is almost as old as the rules. Erlan. Why are people able to sell dragon tattoos but not gorgimera scales? Who would wear a dragon tattoo? There are plenty of agility items out there. Just some food for thought. Quest items with crappy stats can be traded but no-stat quest items with crappy stats can't.

1. hoarding items needed for quests for no acceptable reason
(If you grab items needed to do a quest, you'd better do
the quest as soon as you are able.)


And what if someone doesn't? How do you determine when this is true? What if I collected 2 of the same rare when I'm going for a series of 9? What if I got it late at night with 0 competition?


2. selling items needed only for quests that have no real eq value
So I can sell dragon tattoos, cormyr boots, red/yellow sash for platinum as much as I want right? Getting platinum is pretty acceptable in my opinion.

3. stealing items needed for quests from mobs with the intention
of selling or giving them away
4. "twinking" quests by gathering up needed items and "hiding"
or renting with them
5. "twinking" any quest related mob or item to prevent people
from completing a part of or a full quest. This includes
killing the mob while people are in the zone trying to do
the quest.

Yea these are pretty mean. What do you mean by stealing though? Example?

6. preventing a quest load by sitting on the MUD with a quest
item that you are not actively using. If you cannot use
the item, RENT IT.

This rule is pretty cool... but this rule requires the most god intervention. It's difficult to accuse someone of intentionally doing this when locate object doesn't show who's container it is. Is this rule even enforced?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby muxxissinix » Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:00 pm

Having read Talona's post it seem like we all are childs and don't know the rules of the game we all have played for years.
Talona, If you know someone who is breaking rules then do your part as admin and dont just post a warning, that maybe not all players will read.
Posting is really easy, and i think is pointless since rules are there and anyone can read its.
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Postby Teyaha » Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:04 pm

muxxissinix wrote:Having read Talona's post it seem like we all are childs and don't know the rules of the game we all have played for years.
Talona, If you know someone who is breaking rules then do your part as admin and dont just post a warning, that maybe not all players will read.
Posting is really easy, and i think is pointless since rules are there and anyone can read its.


http://www.torilmud.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19058

note the dates...
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Postby muxxissinix » Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:30 pm

So ?

My point is nobody do nothing to solve this problem and a post for sure is not the solution.
When you have to wait 3-4 days for a reboot just to check a rareload item for a spell quest and you not able to get it because you are not on when they announce a reboot then something is wrong and is not the players. The stability of the code (no random crashes) make some rareloads very popular, like the chunk of skymetal or iceberry. Remove the rareload factor on this items, thanks.
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Postby Teyaha » Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:35 pm

muxxissinix wrote:So ?

My point is nobody do nothing to solve this problem and a post for sure is not the solution.
When you have to wait 3-4 days for a reboot just to check a rareload item for a spell quest and you not able to get it because you are not on when they announce a reboot then something is wrong and is not the players. The stability of the code (no random crashes) make some rareloads very popular, like the chunk of skymetal or iceberry. Remove the rareload factor on this items, thanks.


although that's one part of the problem, that still doesnt excuse people from having 15 statless quest items in their bags, and asking for plat or trades for them.

it's blatantly against the mud rules, and the imms felt that the players needed a gentle reminder before they start sifting through our bags and removing the excess for us.

the entire issue of rareloads is prob best suited for another thread, as talona doesnt touch on how you obtained it. just that you have many of them, cant use them, and/or want compensation to give them to someone who can.
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Postby Yasden » Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:04 pm

I hoard items for spellquests & skills. I've done so for years, beause as a guild leader you want your mages and illithids to have their spellquests done as soon as possible. I give them out freely to anyone who asks or needs, because it IS a pain in the ass to be on at the right time when they load. The problem therein, however, is that most of the time no one ever posts and says "hey does anyone have this?" There's nothing wrong with posting WANTING one, but you just can't have WTB/WTTF/FT/FS in the post. Feel free to correct me there admins if I'm wrong.

I happen to actually have an iceberry, Teyaha. Bug me as Danahg if you haven't already gotten one.
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Postby Teyaha » Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:39 pm

gave up on my elementalist for a while, so gave the chunk to dalar

thank you though.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:29 am

By the way guys, I need the rares for reloc/gate/mind blank/dragonscales if those quests need it :D.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Malvareth » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:01 am

I need most of the non-soloable pieces for Windsong, so please form an orderly line and give me the items for free.
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Postby Teyaha » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:20 am

im sure someone out there has 15 of each for ya
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Postby Teyaha » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:21 am

#$&^% double post
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Postby Ghimok » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:43 pm

I don't hoarde quest items. I eat them. Barbarians like Dlur have discerning tastes. After a while lobster and Murlyand's spoon just don't cut it. Sometimes you need something sweet that a cookie or buttered scone just won't touch. That is why discerning Dlurs eat iceberrys and goodberry pies! Delicious!
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Postby Birile » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:57 pm

I wrote a really long post and then decided to just write this:

Make Gate and Relocate non-quest spells.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:39 pm

Why bring Gate into this? That quest is solo-able and doesn't require rare items. I rewrote it almost 10 years ago because it had the same kind of frustration associated with it that relocate apparently has now.

Were you just associating the two because they're both quested transport spells, or is there some problem with the Gate quest that I'm not aware of?
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Postby Gukov » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:34 pm

The only 'problem' with the gate spell quest that I'm aware of is that it can only be done once per boot.

BTW didn't somebody say that there is an alternative relocate quest in menzo? Dunno!

BTW is it considered quest abuse or just annoying if someone with two khanjaris tries to work on a third when people with none lose the beggar to the other person? I'm not aware of this happening atm but I know it's happened in the past. I'm not working on one (yet) so this is not sour grapes :p
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Postby Birile » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:46 pm

Shevarash wrote:Why bring Gate into this? That quest is solo-able and doesn't require rare items. I rewrote it almost 10 years ago because it had the same kind of frustration associated with it that relocate apparently has now.

Were you just associating the two because they're both quested transport spells, or is there some problem with the Gate quest that I'm not aware of?


As mentioned, it can only be done once per boot. With boots that usually reach 70 hours and sometimes 100+ hours, I suppose the problem there is open to interpretation.

Your thoughts on Relocate?
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:19 pm

We've been trying to reboot much more frequently lately, but still, point taken about the once a boot thing. I'll look at the gate quest and see if I can fix it to repop so it can be done more than once.

As for relocate, I believe a spell quest for a 9th circle teleportation spell should be a mildly entertaining rite of passage, not an agonizing rare hunt. I will consider the best way to fix this quest and get back to you on it.
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Postby Teyaha » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:30 pm

Shevarash wrote:We've been trying to reboot much more frequently lately, but still, point taken about the once a boot thing. I'll look at the gate quest and see if I can fix it to repop so it can be done more than once.

As for relocate, I believe a spell quest for a 9th circle teleportation spell should be a mildly entertaining rite of passage, not an agonizing rare hunt. I will consider the best way to fix this quest and get back to you on it.


i'm of the opinion that all rares in the game should be at the end of 15 man zones and un-twinkable. wanna know it loaded? finish the zone!

maybe do reboots at 3am pst? i know a handful of kiwi's that would enjoy a crack at rares they generally dont get to hunt for because of our usual prime-time boots
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Postby Botef » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:36 pm

My thoughts on how to fix relocate would be this: Make it more like Shadow Walk.

The spell gives mages the ability to transport themselves anywhere, which basically undermines their 'need' to get around the mud on foot. Its a convenience spell more than anything so the quest it self shouldn't be all that hard imo. I always thought Shadow Walk was a awesome quest because you had to travel about the mud and really get a feel for where things are before gaining the ability to bypass that. The player realizes the importance of the spell in the midst of questing it from having to run all over the place in one go. It requires a concerted effort to complete (rather than collect (handed out) - turn in) and rounds out the players knowledge of where a lot of places are as well as giving them a sense of accomplishment when they finish it.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:46 pm

I agree with Botef. That quest was extremely fun to do at the beginning of Sojourn3 with Saerian. Nobody knew where to go and everything was just a guess.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Silverast Rubicyn » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:59 pm

Dalar wrote:I agree with Botef. That quest was extremely fun to do at the beginning of Sojourn3 with Saerian. Nobody knew where to go and everything was just a guess.


Ahh memories :)
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Postby Zoldren » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:17 pm

Teyaha wrote:gave up on my elementalist for a while, so gave the chunk to dalar

thank you though.


so is that Illegal because you gave it away?
3. stealing items needed for quests from mobs with the intention
of selling or giving them away


That being said... everyone gets those items for relo for a friend/alt/guildie. it's been that way for years, all you have to do is ask and most people will cough it over to you. Relo is just anoying because of the rares.



As to the don't keep items in game if your not questing them so they can repop... who the hell knows if x junk item in their bag is quest item, and even if it is a quest item that it won't repop because it's in game.. we all dont have commands to stat an object to find out if it's a part of a quest or will repop

I would say the mortals who do know are cheaters...unless those items where posted somewhere as being repop items.
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Postby Kifle » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:39 pm

Zoldren wrote:
Teyaha wrote:gave up on my elementalist for a while, so gave the chunk to dalar

thank you though.


so is that Illegal because you gave it away?
3. stealing items needed for quests from mobs with the intention
of selling or giving them away




Notice the bold; reread what Teyaha wrote through the whole thread.
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Postby Birile » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:41 am

Zoldren wrote:As to the don't keep items in game if your not questing them so they can repop... who the hell knows if x junk item in their bag is quest item, and even if it is a quest item that it won't repop because it's in game.. we all dont have commands to stat an object to find out if it's a part of a quest or will repop

I would say the mortals who do know are cheaters...unless those items where posted somewhere as being repop items.


I concur. Just by chance a few weeks ago while logged on as Sunlireal someone mentioned to me that they couldn't do X quest because Y item was in someone's bags and the item wouldn't load. So... since it was in Sunlireal's bag (heh) and also in one of Birile's bags, I promptly put the items on storage. I had no clue. I collect stuff. And I hate storage. Who knows what I've got that's a quest item and it's NOT my responsibility to ensure that everything I take an interest in is not one of these stupid items that won't load if it's already in the game. That's not to mention that a certain Oakvale quest mob doesn't even load with all of its items if any of those items are already in the game (assuming this hasn't been fixed)... Way to go, do a relatively difficult quest, walk away with 1/3 or 2/3 of the prize 'cause someone else is wearing one of the items in the game... Awesome.
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Postby Teyaha » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:46 am

Zoldren wrote:

all you have to do is ask and most people will cough it over to you.


.


this is not true, and it's the reason why the announcement was made

i personally did alocate on the chunk and a locate on the iceberry. i found 8 of each in containers. only 4 people anon

so i went down the entire who list each night for three nights asking if people had them. (sorry for those i asked more than once)

the answers were

4 - responses saying people are hording the items, and to ask XXX (the same person in all 4 responses)

1 - response with 'got a chunk and dont need it.'

1 - response with 'i have 15 iceberries. i'm sure we can work out some sort of trade...'

1 - response with 'got 'em but about to use 'em for my caster...'

and

1 - response with 'ah just used for my illusionist'

the rest were 'dont have'.

those were my total responses over 3 days, not how many i got every night.

now to head off the usual culprits - no, i wasnt expecting a handout. and before i even went looking for these items, i had read the thread i linked to previously and talked to many others about getting the itmes for the quest. from levels 41-44 i had been searching (about a real life week) for said items. after seeing 5-8 in containers every night i finally started going down the who list whenever the number of people shown anon was less than the number of chunks/iceberries i saw on locate.

also note that i only got two responses from people actively using said quest items

now - all that said and done - the gods have spoken. they will be enforcing the rules, and the rule is pretty cut and dry when it comes to statless quest items that you can not or are not currently using. i'm sure exceptions can be made for those who have one or two of the item on them waiting for a guildie to hit whatever level...but 15 is just silly and i challenge you to logically argue otherwise.
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Postby Teyaha » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:55 am

Birile wrote:
Zoldren wrote:As to the don't keep items in game if your not questing them so they can repop... who the hell knows if x junk item in their bag is quest item, and even if it is a quest item that it won't repop because it's in game.. we all dont have commands to stat an object to find out if it's a part of a quest or will repop

I would say the mortals who do know are cheaters...unless those items where posted somewhere as being repop items.


I concur. Just by chance a few weeks ago while logged on as Sunlireal someone mentioned to me that they couldn't do X quest because Y item was in someone's bags and the item wouldn't load. So... since it was in Sunlireal's bag (heh) and also in one of Birile's bags, I promptly put the items on storage. I had no clue. I collect stuff. And I hate storage. Who knows what I've got that's a quest item and it's NOT my responsibility to ensure that everything I take an interest in is not one of these stupid items that won't load if it's already in the game. That's not to mention that a certain Oakvale quest mob doesn't even load with all of its items if any of those items are already in the game (assuming this hasn't been fixed)... Way to go, do a relatively difficult quest, walk away with 1/3 or 2/3 of the prize 'cause someone else is wearing one of the items in the game... Awesome.



again, that's not hoarding. and after being told about the situtation you promptly rectified it.

that's exactly in the spirit of the rule in question.

now, if you had said 'too bad i dont feel like renting/storing it right now...' there would have been a clear violation of the rules

if there is confusion, petition is your friend. if, say, YOU are doing a quest and the item cant/wont pop because it's in someone's bag, and because you cant see who the bag belongs to, and because you talked in assoc chat and nobody in there had, you can petition the gods to investigate

then i'm sure they'll see who has it and politely ask them to log it off/store it/trash it or whatever.

it only becomes a problem (and the only reaon why the announcement was made in the first place) when the following occurs:

1) someone purposefully stays logged in with said item in a petty attempt to screw you over

2) someone is hoarding 15+ statless quest items that are not rare load, and then asking for compensation for them, instead of just handing them out or dropping them in a water room

these are the relevant issues pertaining to the announcement. so far the other situations that have been outlined you handled properly as far as anyone can determine.


and remember again - the general consensus is we want more new players. unless this has changed, such behaviour as outlined in 1 and 2 are counterproductive.
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Postby Zoldren » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:07 pm

Teyaha wrote:
Zoldren wrote:

all you have to do is ask and most people will cough it over to you.


.


tthe answers were

4 - responses saying people are hording the items, and to ask XXX (the same person in all 4 responses)

1 - response with 'got a chunk and dont need it.'

1 - response with 'i have 15 iceberries. i'm sure we can work out some sort of trade...'

1 - response with 'got 'em but about to use 'em for my caster...'

and

1 - response with 'ah just used for my illusionist'



so the same guy answering the same question doesnt count as 4 responses...
you could have asked the guy that says I dont need it 4 times to increase your #'s as well.

however, with your post above..
first guy was wrong
second guy probably gave it to you or would have i assume
3rd guy (not same as first guy?) is wrong
4th guy nothing wrong with that
5th guy.. and now he's in the wrong for using it?
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Postby Teyaha » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:39 pm

Zoldren wrote:
Teyaha wrote:
Zoldren wrote:

all you have to do is ask and most people will cough it over to you.


.


tthe answers were

4 - responses saying people are hording the items, and to ask XXX (the same person in all 4 responses)

1 - response with 'got a chunk and dont need it.'

1 - response with 'i have 15 iceberries. i'm sure we can work out some sort of trade...'

1 - response with 'got 'em but about to use 'em for my caster...'

and

1 - response with 'ah just used for my illusionist'



so the same guy answering the same question doesnt count as 4 responses...
you could have asked the guy that says I dont need it 4 times to increase your #'s as well.

however, with your post above..
first guy was wrong
second guy probably gave it to you or would have i assume
3rd guy (not same as first guy?) is wrong
4th guy nothing wrong with that
5th guy.. and now he's in the wrong for using it?



your post is argumentative and arguably off topic. i'll not explain myself. you can figure it out on your own.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:01 pm

Teyaha now I remember why I had bad memories of you. You really need to just stop responding to posts even if you're right or wrong. Trust me, it has saved me many years of headaches after I figured it out.
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Postby Teyaha » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:08 pm

your post is off topic. stay on topic please
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:14 pm

Teyaha wrote:
Dalar wrote:Teyaha now I remember why I had bad memories of you. You really need to just stop responding to posts even if you're right or wrong. Trust me, it has saved me many years of headaches after I figured it out.


i will never back down when being accused of lying. i took a chance reason and understanding would dominate this thread, but it's clear for some people that can never happen - they cant see beyond their own petty selfish power struggles. being accused of fabricating the information i provided is absurd in it's own right.

4 different people said ask teba (or listed a teba alt). teba himself admitted to me in a tell he had 15 iceberries. there. no longer will i bother to omit names. so you tell me right how why in the FUCK should i sit there and take taht kind of shit? i will be nobody's whpping boy. you dont like me? hey that's your perogative. but dont mask your attempts at breaking mud rules and being item whores by attacking someone pointing out your flaws. it just makes you look immature.

but it matters not. when the gods reach into your bags and take your shit, you have nobody to blame but yourselves.



You sure do bitch a lot for a person who is technically in the right here. But damn, why not just accept the items from people who offered, rather than be snide, and whiny and say give it to dartan? Really, what good is this entire thred doing, other than making you look more argumentative. Brian has a point when he says somethings you should just let go and not comment on. This entire thread, was one of those things to let go.
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Postby Teyaha » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:18 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:
Teyaha wrote:
Dalar wrote:Teyaha now I remember why I had bad memories of you. You really need to just stop responding to posts even if you're right or wrong. Trust me, it has saved me many years of headaches after I figured it out.


i will never back down when being accused of lying. i took a chance reason and understanding would dominate this thread, but it's clear for some people that can never happen - they cant see beyond their own petty selfish power struggles. being accused of fabricating the information i provided is absurd in it's own right.

4 different people said ask teba (or listed a teba alt). teba himself admitted to me in a tell he had 15 iceberries. there. no longer will i bother to omit names. so you tell me right how why in the FUCK should i sit there and take taht kind of shit? i will be nobody's whpping boy. you dont like me? hey that's your perogative. but dont mask your attempts at breaking mud rules and being item whores by attacking someone pointing out your flaws. it just makes you look immature.

but it matters not. when the gods reach into your bags and take your shit, you have nobody to blame but yourselves.



You sure do bitch a lot for a person who is technically in the right here. But damn, why not just accept the items from people who offered, rather than be snide, and whiny and say give it to dartan? Really, what good is this entire thred doing, other than making you look more argumentative. Brian has a point when he says somethings you should just let go and not comment on. This entire thread, was one of those things to let go.


so not only do you not read the posts, but you make accusations based on the posts you didnt read?

nice

i'm dont with elementalist. relocate had nothing to do with it. my personal reasons are none of your damned business. i no longer needed the chunk. dartan said he needed one. so i gave it to him.

yeah. being charitable to someone in need is whining in your books. nice. learn to read.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:24 pm

Teyaha wrote:
Arilin Nydelahar wrote:
Teyaha wrote:
Dalar wrote:Teyaha now I remember why I had bad memories of you. You really need to just stop responding to posts even if you're right or wrong. Trust me, it has saved me many years of headaches after I figured it out.


i will never back down when being accused of lying. i took a chance reason and understanding would dominate this thread, but it's clear for some people that can never happen - they cant see beyond their own petty selfish power struggles. being accused of fabricating the information i provided is absurd in it's own right.

4 different people said ask teba (or listed a teba alt). teba himself admitted to me in a tell he had 15 iceberries. there. no longer will i bother to omit names. so you tell me right how why in the FUCK should i sit there and take taht kind of shit? i will be nobody's whpping boy. you dont like me? hey that's your perogative. but dont mask your attempts at breaking mud rules and being item whores by attacking someone pointing out your flaws. it just makes you look immature.

but it matters not. when the gods reach into your bags and take your shit, you have nobody to blame but yourselves.



You sure do bitch a lot for a person who is technically in the right here. But damn, why not just accept the items from people who offered, rather than be snide, and whiny and say give it to dartan? Really, what good is this entire thred doing, other than making you look more argumentative. Brian has a point when he says somethings you should just let go and not comment on. This entire thread, was one of those things to let go.


so not only do you not read the posts, but you make accusations based on the posts you didnt read?

nice

i'm dont with elementalist. relocate had nothing to do with it. my personal reasons are none of your damned business. i no longer needed the chunk. dartan said he needed one. so i gave it to him.

yeah. being charitable to someone in need is whining in your books. nice. learn to read.


No, you're being bitchy, and whiny, in this and every damn thread you post in. It's your MO. I learned to read a long time ago, and if you do a search for Teyaha on this board, regardless of year, you'll see this style tripe. You really need to learn to let things go. Do you need a hug? I'll hug you.
Shevarash OOC: 'what can I say, I'm attracted to crazy chicks and really short dudes'
Teyaha
Sojourner
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Teyaha » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:31 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:But damn, why not just accept the items from people who offered, rather than be snide, and whiny and say give it to dartan? .


an accusation, based on the fact you didnt read the thread

i will not sit idly by and take shit from you people anymore. maybe one time in the past, but not anymore. you are wrong. you accused me of being "snide" and "whiny" (whiney spelled wrong). accusation. not a statement.

this is what i typed. it's up top. read the thread, it helps.

Teyaha wrote:gave up on my elementalist for a while, so gave the chunk to dalar

thank you though.


so i'm done with elementalist for a while. why? i dont much care for the class. it's not my style. but you didnt need to know that reason. the reasoning for me not wanting to play the class any further is not pertinent to this discussion.

and i thanked the people for the iceberry offers and of course i turned them down, because iw as done with the class. or maybe i should be a greedy eq whore and taken them with the full knowledge i would prob (never) actually use it?

or maybe i'll be nice and give the chunk that sakom gave me to someone that can actually use it right now.

yeah. whiney and snide. that's me. if whiney and snide = generous.

if you want to start an argument with me - fine. but i will not back down. not anymore. i will not let you or anyone else push me around on this board anymore.

your responses to this issue have been trite and off topic. and now the entire thread is off topic

the admin sphere has spoken. start handing out or ponding the shit you've been hoarding.
Callarduran
Staff Member - Admin
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:15 am
Location: The Twin Paradises of Bytopia

Postby Callarduran » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:53 pm

Locked. Besides the fact that the topic of hoarding equipment and asking for compensation for items that have no purpose other than for quests is not up for discussion, the flaming has officially killed this thread.

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