Massmorph

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
jau
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Massmorph

Postby jau » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:48 am

it doesnt work, fix it. enemies can see through this :(
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Postby Corth » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:07 am

It works. Try harder!
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:10 am

Instead of posting 3 topics, post 1. Also, how is it not working? Works fine to me.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby jau » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:21 am

the forum lagged out not my fault
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Postby Ambar » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:55 am

They use this in Tiamat .. How do YOU think it is not working? Cite examples, without examples they cant fix what is broken!

Friendly tip: when you post and it doesn't seem to go thru, open a new tab/window and check .. thought everyone knew that :)
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Postby Kifle » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:24 pm

Dirty jau's. First they moan about the holocaust, now massmorph. What's next?
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Postby jau » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:03 pm

massed morphed with ninna last night at tp
and apparently the lizardmen aggro'd ninna
(yes we were grouped and yes we were a cluster of mushrooms)

we did it twice just to let u know
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Postby Botef » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:32 pm

Was Ninna aggro lizardmen already?
Sunamit group-says 'imrex west, tibek backstab touk i think his name is on entry'
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Postby torkur » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:56 pm

If you're aggro to something, it will aggro you and break it. Kinda keeps it from being so overpowered you can twink zones by running on a group of tracking aggros.
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Postby jau » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:12 am

well that's dumb
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Postby torkur » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:30 pm

Dumb, but balanced.

Example: Corth finds kost in jot. He decides to 2 man it. He tendrils the group while an invoker infernos, then he nightmares. They then flee to an adjacent room and massmorph before the stun wears off. Mem there, Rinse, Repeat. While not the most elegant solution, it'd work if massmorph stopped incoming aggros to you.

Now as to other ways you could do this without it, that's another story. :)
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Postby Dalar » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:37 pm

On another subject, nightmare was nerfed so bad thunderblast is way better than it. Of course it'll be fixed in Toril 2.0 I bet.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Corth » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:40 pm

I think our best showing verses kosty was 4 man. :)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby torkur » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:47 pm

You didn't have today's twinked out shi.....stuff. You gotta have faith in broken procs man! :)
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Postby jau » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:44 pm

balance? i thought massmorph was the group version of camoflouge
but damn it sucks so bad...even mobs can track if massmorph'd (LAME!)
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Postby Botef » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:21 am

mislead ftw
Sunamit group-says 'imrex west, tibek backstab touk i think his name is on entry'

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Postby bawog » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:54 am

balance? i thought massmorph was the group version of camoflouge
but damn it sucks so bad...even mobs can track if massmorph'd (LAME!)


Ummmm, perhaps try testing on lower level mobs maybe? Illusionists are super duper powerful if you know how to play them. I mean hell sequester, mislead, camo, just to name a few are some of the most crafty spells you can come across. Now I don't have a 50 of one, but i've seen quite a few in action! Perhaps you can just trade to get a spell upgrade?!?! j/k
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Postby Zotus » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:06 am

Perhaps you can just trade to get a spell upgrade?!?!


No one has that ft :(.
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Postby Malia » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:20 pm

Dont complain that a spell is broken until you know how the spell works. This is spell is not broken and works pefectly if used properly. Great way to get past izans patrols, they walk past you and dont aggr you.
Dugmaren mutters in a surly voice 'Got any new strategy or going to continue with the "throw bodies at them til they get bored"? '

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Postby jau » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:55 pm

Malia wrote:Dont complain that a spell is broken until you know how the spell works. This is spell is not broken and works pefectly if used properly. Great way to get past izans patrols, they walk past you and dont aggr you.


read help massmorph, tells you a lot doesn't it? misinformed about the spell
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Postby Malia » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:55 pm

Just because you think you understand how something works because you read it and interprut it that way doesnt mean it works that way.

With every spell play with it, try diffrent things with it to learn its best advantages and disadvantages.

Again this spell is not broken, and wasnt broken. No reason to complain this is broken when its not.

ps: remember you have trouble reading the 'score' screen and cant tell what lvl you really are, so maybe your having issues reading help screens too.
Dugmaren mutters in a surly voice 'Got any new strategy or going to continue with the "throw bodies at them til they get bored"? '



Dranth group-says 'i started drinkin when i found out galzar would be here'



Nerox says 'careful she goes from 0 to bitch in .00000001 seconds'



Mugo ASSOC:: 'ah got it on my gaytimer now :P'
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Postby Dalar » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:22 pm

This powerful spell spins an illusion about the caster's entire group,
making them appear to be an assortment of objects natural to the
environment, such as a cluster of trees outdoors, or a tapestry indoors.
While protected by the illusion, the group can not be seen or attacked
by enemies. However, any group member initiating combat or movement will
render the illusion ineffective.

They almost got it right, looks like a help file issue.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby jau » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:06 pm

Malia wrote:Just because you think you understand how something works because you read it and interprut it that way doesnt mean it works that way.

With every spell play with it, try diffrent things with it to learn its best advantages and disadvantages.

Again this spell is not broken, and wasnt broken. No reason to complain this is broken when its not.

ps: remember you have trouble reading the 'score' screen and cant tell what lvl you really are, so maybe your having issues reading help screens too.


Maybe you can't read the help file. Go back to to highschool and maybe you'll learn how to read and actually analyze the actually reading, or maybe you were to busy playing this game during your highschool years.

Obviously, an illusionist does not want to fight, therefore, he/she makes illusions to escape. With this in mind, massmorph was meant for the illusionist's group, but the help file states that it will change the group's appearance to that of the natural objects in the room. Even a kid can read the help file and understand it. Secondly, I can read numbers fine, there's a fine line between reading and lying. And obviously, you can't tell which is which. My claim is it is you who needs to learn how to read. Maybe you didn't understand a single thing I just said. =\
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Postby Thilindel » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:30 pm

In before the lock!
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Postby Zotus » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:20 am

ps: remember you have trouble reading the 'score' screen and cant tell what lvl you really are, so maybe your having issues reading help screens too.


its difficult for someone who has been playing the game for 5+ years to have trouble finding out what level his character(s) is/are.......
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Postby Shar » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:56 am

Please stop with flame throwing.

Thanks.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:46 am

I give this thread 7 out of 10 stars.
How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.

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Postby Dalar » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:48 am

That's really generous. Remember how great flaming was back in the day. Could post for hours.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Gormal » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:35 am

jau wrote:
Malia wrote:Just because you think you understand how something works because you read it and interprut it that way doesnt mean it works that way.

With every spell play with it, try diffrent things with it to learn its best advantages and disadvantages.

Again this spell is not broken, and wasnt broken. No reason to complain this is broken when its not.

ps: remember you have trouble reading the 'score' screen and cant tell what lvl you really are, so maybe your having issues reading help screens too.


Maybe you can't read the help file. Go back to to highschool and maybe you'll learn how to read and actually analyze the actually reading, or maybe you were to busy playing this game during your highschool years.

Obviously, an illusionist does not want to fight, therefore, he/she makes illusions to escape. With this in mind, massmorph was meant for the illusionist's group, but the help file states that it will change the group's appearance to that of the natural objects in the room. Even a kid can read the help file and understand it. Secondly, I can read numbers fine, there's a fine line between reading and lying. And obviously, you can't tell which is which. My claim is it is you who needs to learn how to read. Maybe you didn't understand a single thing I just said. =\


I'm not trying to flame, but I can't help but laugh at the irony of insulting someone for their inability to read, while butchering the English language so badly. As far as the spell is concerned, your initial post was terribly uninformative and didn't give even a hint towards what you thought might be wrong with the spell, let alone logs to support your claims.

Perhaps there's a more... intelligent way to point out a spell's shortcomings. Things like supporting evidence, logical reasoning, and a basic understanding of game mechanics are good places to start.
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Postby Birile » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:40 pm

Gormal wrote:Perhaps there's a more... intelligent way to point out a spell's shortcomings. Things like supporting evidence, logical reasoning, and a basic understanding of game mechanics are good places to start.


He mentioned the help file in a follow-up post, and from what Dalar posted, Jau is right in that it doesn't mention what would happen if you or a group member were already aggro to something. He didn't have to post the text of the help file, pointing us in that direction was enough. If someone didn't want to take the time to read the file then asking for clarification of what was misleading about the file would've been more appropriate than alluding to personal opinions about his intelligence level.

Massmorph would be completely out of control if it didn't break when a mob you hit came looking for you. If it worked that way it would be a staple in any zone where a group does runs on mobs. It's already a little overpowered (shaving literally hours and many many deaths off of the last 3 rooms in Tiamat comes to mind), and some sort of search/spot check to disbelieve the illusion seems to be in order. At the very least, the help file could use a little tweaking.

The same conclusion could've been reached without flaming.
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Postby Raiwen » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:52 pm

Birile,

There are lots of spell effects (side-effects) that aren't spelled out verbatim in the help files.

So what?

That's the mystery. If you really want to learn it all, do experiments in a controlled environment before you get your grouped spanked in a difficult CR situation.

That's sort of what separates the novice from the veteran players.

Ps: I'm not trying to flame. Just pointing out why everything isn't always spelled out in the help files.
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:57 pm

I just think it's funny that someone with 9 posts is flaming... well, anybody.
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Postby Birile » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:29 pm

Raiwen wrote:Birile,

There are lots of spell effects (side-effects) that aren't spelled out verbatim in the help files.

So what?

That's the mystery. If you really want to learn it all, do experiments in a controlled environment before you get your grouped spanked in a difficult CR situation.

That's sort of what separates the novice from the veteran players.

Ps: I'm not trying to flame. Just pointing out why everything isn't always spelled out in the help files.


I actually don't disagree at all. I just think that if someone is using massmorph or any other skill/spell for the first time, thinking it will do something based on what a help file does or doesn't say, that we could attempt to offer solutions and/or explanations for said person without resorting to implications on their intelligence level. Jau wasn't the first person to flame here, he responded (in kind--not my first choice of action given the same situation) to someone who flamed him.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:37 pm

Dalar wrote:That's really generous. Remember how great flaming was back in the day. Could post for hours.


Thats true, but I have to award based on current content.
How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.



Weylarii group-says 'oh shit! my penis is stuck in the toaster. afk'



Corth ASSOC:: 'up to you.. need a ranger, but if you want to afk i can probably find someone else'
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Postby Dalar » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:37 pm

Birile wrote:
Gormal wrote:Perhaps there's a more... intelligent way to point out a spell's shortcomings. Things like supporting evidence, logical reasoning, and a basic understanding of game mechanics are good places to start.


He mentioned the help file in a follow-up post, and from what Dalar posted, Jau is right in that it doesn't mention what would happen if you or a group member were already aggro to something. He didn't have to post the text of the help file, pointing us in that direction was enough. If someone didn't want to take the time to read the file then asking for clarification of what was misleading about the file would've been more appropriate than alluding to personal opinions about his intelligence level.

Massmorph would be completely out of control if it didn't break when a mob you hit came looking for you. If it worked that way it would be a staple in any zone where a group does runs on mobs. It's already a little overpowered (shaving literally hours and many many deaths off of the last 3 rooms in Tiamat comes to mind), and some sort of search/spot check to disbelieve the illusion seems to be in order. At the very least, the help file could use a little tweaking.

The same conclusion could've been reached without flaming.


Putting in the check won't do anything. We can camou, hide, or warder cloak and wait for the dragons as well. The only fix is to make those dragons not come to shout, which is very easy to do. Just don't put their vnums in the shout proc.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Birile » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:33 pm

Dalar wrote:
Birile wrote:
Gormal wrote:Perhaps there's a more... intelligent way to point out a spell's shortcomings. Things like supporting evidence, logical reasoning, and a basic understanding of game mechanics are good places to start.


He mentioned the help file in a follow-up post, and from what Dalar posted, Jau is right in that it doesn't mention what would happen if you or a group member were already aggro to something. He didn't have to post the text of the help file, pointing us in that direction was enough. If someone didn't want to take the time to read the file then asking for clarification of what was misleading about the file would've been more appropriate than alluding to personal opinions about his intelligence level.

Massmorph would be completely out of control if it didn't break when a mob you hit came looking for you. If it worked that way it would be a staple in any zone where a group does runs on mobs. It's already a little overpowered (shaving literally hours and many many deaths off of the last 3 rooms in Tiamat comes to mind), and some sort of search/spot check to disbelieve the illusion seems to be in order. At the very least, the help file could use a little tweaking.

The same conclusion could've been reached without flaming.


Putting in the check won't do anything. We can camou, hide, or warder cloak and wait for the dragons as well. The only fix is to make those dragons not come to shout, which is very easy to do. Just don't put their vnums in the shout proc.


My suggestion wasn't just limited to how to keep us from twinking Tiamat--it was much more general and game-wide.

But concerning Tiamat: get rid of that extra room that the zone creator(s) put in 1s of the 5 dragons to keep group members from being roared into Tiamat. They tried to throw us a bone and be helpful and we exploited it. I say take it out. Then 1) we can't use the massmorph twink; 2) there's no need for a shout proc; and 3) the zone creators can laugh everytime someone gets roared into Tiamat and consider it payback.
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Postby Gormal » Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:50 pm

Didn't Shev say a while ago that the massmorph mechanic in Tiamat was a good tactic and he had no intention of changing it?
Last edited by Gormal on Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sarell » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:59 am

Yeh, it was something along the lines of 'I'm glad someone found a use for massmorph. It might have been eilistelreleleeeeee tho?

I came up with that tactic. I think it's a hell of a lot more fun that throwing 400 bodies at 5 dragons in one room which is straight out boring. You may as well set up a Zmud bot for fights like that and have some lunch or something. I suggested that perhaps make the green+black & white+blue dragons move in pairs to make it a bit harder. So you must fight 2 ancients straight up. That would possibly sort out whether groups were a bit stronger or not.

On mass-morph being broken, it isn't. Finding out interesting things with spells is really part of the actual fun side of Toril for most, and one thing that can separate truly experienced players from the rest. I spent a lot of time making sure I knew exactly how massmorph worked, in cahoots with Pragmar & Bailen or their respective illusionists. Not only in testing it on regular mobs, but finding appropriate dragons in the game so that we could emulate the Tia situation - to make sure we wouldn't wreck/end the Tia run if we did it that way. It was fun setting it up, and it was a huge blast and peak of excitement for the group when we pulled it off!

In conclusion... Down with help files, down with the BBS!!!
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Postby shalath » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:36 pm

Sarell wrote:In conclusion... Down with help files, down with the BBS!!!

Don't you mean Upgrade Trophy Upgrade Tables?

</boggle>

:-)

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Postby Sarell » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:16 am

Upgrade Trophy - Downgrade Tables! Dammit!
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