Please check if FK rares actually load

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Dalar
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Please check if FK rares actually load

Postby Dalar » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:44 am

K thx. Having to find 11 rares, some of which 2-4 times is ridiculous when they rare this low or ever. And for one item....
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:47 pm

If you send a more detailed email to toril.areas@gmail.com and I'll take a look. That is the best way to get the attention of people with Area knowledge to look at something like this. Please include the specific mobs you are curious about.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:45 am

Apparently the zone creator has a twisted sense of humor. I can't say I'm too happy losing 6 rares for 1 rare that is a complete dead end.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Dalar » Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:08 am

I'll be on to get caged at 9am PST. Check Kegor's room for some funnies.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Dalar » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:40 am

Any Voyager fans? Remember when the doctor had to choose between saving Harry's life and some random ensign's and he chose Harry? Remember how the doctor went nuts after? Questing FK is kind of like that. The zone doesn't really make much sense at all and isn't 100% logical.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Dalar » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:54 am

Anyways, I did blow up yesterday. I don't think you guys understand why. I've played here for 12 years and have done quite a few quests. I have never seen such loss in time and gear before in my 12 years. It makes me wonder about if Cyric or Marthammor actually know the zones they approve, if there's an approval process, or if they condone such loss in time.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Marthammor » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:32 am

<sarcasm>Nope, I don't actually walk through every zone I'm in charge of by myself and stat every mob, item, quest, and room. I don't also walk through each zone I'm in charge of with the writer and ask them several questions about things which may be questionable.</sarcasm>

Now, I was not the one to go over FK, but it will be looked at and we'll work with the area creator to come up with something that hopefully still meets their intentions while perhaps being a little clearer with the clues and quest messages.
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Postby moritheil » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:23 pm

Dalar wrote:Anyways, I did blow up yesterday. I don't think you guys understand why. I've played here for 12 years and have done quite a few quests. I have never seen such loss in time and gear before in my 12 years.


I'm sincerely not trying to troll you, but welcome to epic questing. I've been saying for a while now that further increases in power are beyond the point of diminishing returns, so you should expect to pay more and more for smaller and smaller power gains.
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Postby torkur » Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:50 am

Anyways, I did blow up yesterday. I don't think you guys understand why. I've played here for 12 years and have done quite a few quests. I have never seen such loss in time and gear before in my 12 years. It makes me wonder about if Cyric or Marthammor actually know the zones they approve, if there's an approval process, or if they condone such loss in time.


No offense, but it was completed 6 months ago by Morena, so it can't be that impossible. I've help figure out some parts of it as well and most of the gear comes from the zone itself and is meant to take 6 months-1 year to finish per the area creator.

How many ultra-rares/obsure quests out there have items from 12 zones, no way to get the keywords, etc? The sharkskin breeches come to mind for annoying global running around or khanjari if you prefer a necessary quest. Also, the bard scrap quest. You have to try stuff yes, but it's not "a red potion" given to the friggin .00001% global rare human you found in the Lair of Tiamat here.
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Postby grundar » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:06 am

F**K rares!
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Postby Dalar » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:14 pm

Moritheil wrote:
Dalar wrote:Anyways, I did blow up yesterday. I don't think you guys understand why. I've played here for 12 years and have done quite a few quests. I have never seen such loss in time and gear before in my 12 years.


I'm sincerely not trying to troll you, but welcome to epic questing. I've been saying for a while now that further increases in power are beyond the point of diminishing returns, so you should expect to pay more and more for smaller and smaller power gains.


Me wrote:Apparently the zone creator has a twisted sense of humor. I can't say I'm too happy losing 6 rares for 1 rare that is a complete dead end.


Torkur wrote:No offense, but it was completed 6 months ago by Morena, so it can't be that impossible. I've help figure out some parts of it as well and most of the gear comes from the zone itself and is meant to take 6 months-1 year to finish per the area creator.

How many ultra-rares/obsure quests out there have items from 12 zones, no way to get the keywords, etc? The sharkskin breeches come to mind for annoying global running around or khanjari if you prefer a necessary quest. Also, the bard scrap quest. You have to try stuff yes, but it's not "a red potion" given to the friggin .00001% global rare human you found in the Lair of Tiamat here.


Me wrote:Apparently the zone creator has a twisted sense of humor. I can't say I'm too happy losing 6 rares for 1 rare that is a complete dead end.


Moritheil, people like you are why the EJ forums exist. Can I get a QFT from my WoW buddies?

I don't believe I said the quest was impossible. In fact, read the topic. I do believe I was asking if the way the rares load is working correctly. There are 2 particular rares I am looking for. The area creator did say (i think) that the rares didn't vary too much in load rate, but I have seen some odd numbers lately. Hazel tends to load the most and I have yet to see the one I want. I know he exists because I've seen multiples of the item.

Honestly Torkur, I thank you for your assistance in doing the FK busts and I'm sorry if this offends you, but you are starting to post like Moritheil now.
If you know which quest I'm talking about and still say that, I'd be quite appalled. Even Morena who has been fairly quiet on FK information told me she would have told me not to quest it and she was pissed she had done it before as well. It's just my personal opinion after playing 12 years that you shouldn't lose 5 rares from something silly. I'll put it in context even Moritheil understands.

Let's say you ask Shojonar hi and he says lost his gorgimera scales, glaberzu head, red and yellow sash, leaping flame tattoo, and cormyrian boots. You give all 5 items to him and he thanks you and rewards you with his 150 page spellbook. Pretty much the same concept.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby torkur » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:03 pm

I don't recall all the exact items, but I recall Morena doing it as well and not being happy. It is kind of a dead end and I feel for you. Some of the items are a pita to get in rarity and things do load in a wierd pseudo-random pattern where you have to live there to get what you need.

In your analogy, every item you listed in GC I have and continue to solo when I am lucky enough to find them. Just like every rare needed to do FK you can basically find while doing the regular zone items. While I'd be pissed, it's all about the experience and figuring it out. If that's not what you enjoy in questing, then it is probably better to wait for a walkthrough than to figure it out. I myself HATE figuring out the random clues in most quests, but love to gather stuff and complete as many as I possibly can. Prehaps you are the same way?

My point, though, is that it goes hand in hand with questing in sojourn. To use your analogy, shojonar is pretty straight forward, but where does he tell you about the spellquest he grants you? Kinda sucks to have lost that when I had Osheara do it for me once when my alt needed the spell, but it was my first time and I didn't know any better. If that was still the only way to get said spell, I'd have been months waiting for the rares to do it again too.
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Postby moritheil » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:30 am

Dalar wrote:I don't believe I said the quest was impossible.


It doesn't matter if you didn't say that. You are yet again complaining that your time in vs. reward out is not equal to the reward margin prior quests have given you. My point is that it isn't supposed to be. That is what "diminishing returns" means.
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:04 am

Diminishing returns only applies if the quest item is incrementally better than anything else out there. From Dartan's posts, I assume he quested a handful of stupidly rare items and got vendor trash in return.
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Postby Corth » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:50 am

The only way this would make sense is if the reward itself were an item for another quest. Other than that, it would be very bad form to set a quest reward to be of significantly lesser value than the items turned in for the quest. Thats the type of thing that discourages further questing.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Dalar » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:51 am

moritheil wrote:
Dalar wrote:I don't believe I said the quest was impossible.


It doesn't matter if you didn't say that. You are yet again complaining that your time in vs. reward out is not equal to the reward margin prior quests have given you. My point is that it isn't supposed to be. That is what "diminishing returns" means.


If there were an ignore feature on this BBS you would be my only ignore. Read the thread. My first complaint was there are 2 rares I have not seen in 3 months of searching and I'm 100% sure I would have seen it unless one person killed it. If he killed it he would be a self-proclaimed moron as well. My complaint is if this quest is going to take 11+ rares that I have to find multiple of, then the rares better load. This wouldn't be the first time someone's nifty code didn't work. I was on track to a 6 month finish up until a few days ago where I had an extreme outburst about losing 5 rares.

As for your diminishing returns statement, diminishing returns actually means the more you put in the less you get. "Diminishing returns" does NOT mean time vs reward for new quests should be equal or similar to old quests. That's called "common sense" or "balance" or "following an equipment calculator system". The correct usage of the term would include me killing 20 dragons instead of 10 to get an item with marginally higher stats than dragonscale robes. In this case, I would be hunting for 11 rares 2-4 times for an item that is 15 AC -5 hp more than a smoke invasion item. But you're right Moritheil. Time vs reward is never the case and the gods never ever tried to make items comparable to other in difficulty. Oh wait, Dugmaren and co tried with the EQ calculator.

Wow guys, Moritheil is right. Diminishing returns is defintely being applied. The returns are diminished to 0 after 4 rares IF compared to smoke invasion or even Erlan. Diminishing returns makes sense only if you have a point of comparison IE THE EQUIPMENT CALCULATOR. How does diminishing returns even exist if you don't have a point system? You're thinking of people making random shit out of thin air. I sincerely apologize for troubling you all with my ranting. It makes perfect sense to have one item that's 30 hp 4 maxwis rareload on smoke and take an hour to get and then have another item that requires 22 rares and 6-12 months to finish and to move the stats around by -3-5 hp, +1 maxwis, 15 AC. That's called "diminishing returns" guys DUH. Wrong. In this case, diminishing returns would have been if 4 rares, I get a 30 hp 4 maxwis orb, 10 rares, a 32 hp 4maxwis orb. So you have to compare to get the concept of diminishing returns. Just like how in world of warcraft, some stuns are on diminishing returns where the first stun is 5 sec, then 3 sec, then 2 sec, then 1, then 0 or something like that.

Anyways, I'm going to start ignoring you. I'm tired of reading your posts when you clearly don't read mine nor do you have a brain. All you do is spout random jibberish pretending to be smart when you can never back it up with knowledge, numbers, or even coherent thought. Even Ragorn, the guy I use to flame way too often, read it. Laters.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Emarin » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:16 am

Not to offend anyone, but I see what starts as a good post with constructive replies towards making the game better into.... blah blah blah blah blah *you suck* blah blah blah blah blah.

Quite frankly, I get the idea after the first post... something needs to be changed. Area god replies back, "we'll look over the zone then talk to the creator" Sounds like a solution to get this resolved. Then another post comes up... "Hey you, *beep* face, blah blah blah blah stop complaining." Reply back, "blah blah blah blah, *you suck worse* blah blah blah."

My problem, gods already said hey, we'll look into it... THAT'S ABOUT ALL YOU CAN ASK FOR. ISSUE RESOLVED - Why is there a post following after it with hey you, shut up and just play the game... it's not needed and starts the damn flaming war that comes up that just makes this mud that much less enjoyable.

2nd problem is that the guy that got attacked, then retaliates and goes blah blah blah you suck so hard, blah blah blah. Why are you even bothering to provoke more action?!?! Just let it go, the gods are gonna do what you asked... look it over, give stat upgrades or change the quest or at least reason with the creator.

3rd problem, i'm waisting time on this subject by writing a reply to both of you, which could cause me to get bashed at. But honestly, when there is something constructive to be written to improve the game, and a legit response, why go and make the thread a pile of BS that no one wants to really read? There, I said it... I'm just saying what everyone else is thinking.

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Postby Dalar » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:47 pm

Guinness or pils plz
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Postby Gormal » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:56 pm

Emarin wrote:unintelligible nonsense


Wow...
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Postby Emarin » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:00 am

Gormal wrote:
Emarin wrote:unintelligible nonsense


Wow...


That doesn't sound like something i'd say!
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:09 am

Corth wrote:The only way this would make sense is if the reward itself were an item for another quest. Other than that, it would be very bad form to set a quest reward to be of significantly lesser value than the items turned in for the quest. Thats the type of thing that discourages further questing.


Sandgiant veil!?!?!
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Postby Dalar » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:08 pm

Damnit do I have to make another zone to make FK deadends worth something? If you've ever done Randar's that was my full intention.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:53 pm

For the love of god can someone please check the necromancer's load rate? I realize that everything in there has a low rate, but they're suppose to be somewhat similar in rate AND they have low rates because they are suppose to pop during boot and more than once per boot if lucky enough. I'm not saying check if his load rate looks pretty in the .zon file or whatever, I"m talking about going on your testMUD and typing zreset ok 100x (24x500 = 200 hours) inside FK and seeing if he actually loads. Hell, do it on the main mud, you probably will only have to kill 1 rare because the rates suck balls. There's 4-5 people I know of who are looking for him and it's retarded to have one of his quest items be randomly destroyed for 2 stupid reasons.

I've checked for him for almost 3 months straight and he's still not there. I pretty sure the other people I know who need him would have at least told me it loaded or laughed in my face. Please send me a tell if you need clarification on this matter.
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Postby Marthammor » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:31 am

I've looked several times at the zone file and am sure it is able to load. Also, nothing has changed with the zon file, so nothing has been added or removed that would cause it to not load.
I did also check the logs and the last time the necromancer was killed/quested was in early/mid october. Thats not to say that he hasn't loaded and hasn't been found.
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Postby Dalar » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:33 am

Is his load rate really that far off from the others? Read the e-mail from toril.areas@gmail.com. I really don't understand why you'd condone this kind of timesink. I finally ended up writing a full write-up on how to do the shield quest and it literally took me 40 minutes while idling during GF zoning. I think the best quote I've ever received from a staff member about a quest was "heh just go do Tiamat". I'm starting to see why some people just log on for Tiamat. There is very little reasonable content outside of it.

Really what is it going to take for you to guys to change this to something reasonable? For BC it took us a few runs and 2 years of bitching to get certain items rentable. I find it amazing how the player to dev communication is so close in this game, yet in WoW, things are actually changed. Something to think about the next time you wonder why other people are playing MMOs and not this game.
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Postby Dalar » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:47 am

Marthammor wrote:I've looked several times at the zone file and am sure it is able to load. Also, nothing has changed with the zon file, so nothing has been added or removed that would cause it to not load.
I did also check the logs and the last time the necromancer was killed/quested was in early/mid october. Thats not to say that he hasn't loaded and hasn't been found.


Did you check the logs on if Finn (seelie staff), Wervnod, or faerie emissary was quested that boot too? So you're telling me for 2 whole months and then another 2 whole months I have to continually make sure nobody quests their faerie goggles or seelie staff or Wervnod and make sure I personally kill Finn and illegally hide the quest item JUST so I have a shot at ONE shield? OK sure, I'll do that. Or maybe I can lead rowans and hide the 7th heart, but then someone will just kill Finn for cash. Or maybe I'll just wait until Tiamat groups come around so I can get better gear in one day.
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Postby Marthammor » Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:45 pm

Things seem to happen in spurts. The logs showed that he was quested/killed quite a bit for awhile, which obviously meant he was loading a fair amount. So far since Oct the dice just haven't rolled right for him to load. He has pretty much the same load chance as the other low percentage per zone pop rares.
I did also test out the loading on testmud, and the rares do load there. in fact, a good many of them are loaded there now, but its also been up for 433 hours.. I don't think you want us to leave mainmud going that long.
There are a few problems with items loading on rares if there are others in the game, and those will be fixed, but they don't keep any of the rare mobs from loading.
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Postby Dalar » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:23 pm

Marthammor wrote:Things seem to happen in spurts. The logs showed that he was quested/killed quite a bit for awhile, which obviously meant he was loading a fair amount. So far since Oct the dice just haven't rolled right for him to load. He has pretty much the same load chance as the other low percentage per zone pop rares.
I did also test out the loading on testmud, and the rares do load there. in fact, a good many of them are loaded there now, but its also been up for 433 hours.. I don't think you want us to leave mainmud going that long.
There are a few problems with items loading on rares if there are others in the game, and those will be fixed, but they don't keep any of the rare mobs from loading.


If I don't have Finn's head, the necromancer loading is pointless. If emissary is up, people will quest Finn. If people want crane-skin bag, people will go in the Wervnod way. If people are bored, they will kill Finn and rent out the head. Why can't you guys just make his head rentable?

OK so things happen in spurts. Could it be that another line in a different zone's .zon file is preventing rares in other zones from loading at the correct percentages? I always figured all of the zon files are combined into a large one and that the major difference between test and main are that test has zones that aren't on main.
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Postby Marthammor » Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:27 am

I'll check about making Finn's head rentable, but no promises.
You're right about all the files getting moved into one large file. There shouldn't be anything that messes with other files loading however since they are still seen as single files by the mud so it wouldn't matter how many or how few zones are loaded.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:08 pm

Marthammor wrote:I'll check about making Finn's head rentable, but no promises.
You're right about all the files getting moved into one large file. There shouldn't be anything that messes with other files loading however since they are still seen as single files by the mud so it wouldn't matter how many or how few zones are loaded.


K. Seriously though have you seen my write-up for the quest? 26 rares? Having to get 2 Fianna items to quest for other Fianna items does not flow with the story. If you made a different pair of shoes and a different set of armor, the quest would be at least somewhat reasonable at 14 rares. If you're going to keep it as is with a low low 3 month necromancer/sage load, I might as well just release the info to the hounds so I will never have to bother checking it again. At this point I'd rather farm CM, at least my group controls the flow of the long stupid ass farm quest rather than sitting here PLAYING OTHER GAMES while I wait for the perfect conditions and the right mobs to load (sage and necro). Talk to me after the next Tiamat run if you want the info actually. I have full confidence in the Areas staff that this will not be addressed. I won't give away CM info since I'm working on that in a group. I'll be going to be playing MMOs where devs actually listen and concentrating more on CM and IRL when people aren't online to farm exp mobs.
Last edited by Dalar on Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:21 pm

Dalar wrote:I'll be going to be playing MMOs where devs actually listen

Really?

Can you give me the names of some of those? I've only played twelve or thirteen MMOs, so I might have missed the ones you're talking about.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:07 pm

Ragorn wrote:
Dalar wrote:I'll be going to be playing MMOs where devs actually listen

Really?

Can you give me the names of some of those? I've only played twelve or thirteen MMOs, so I might have missed the ones you're talking about.


WoW? If you don't believe that, then you haven't played TBC. They've come a long way, but they completely caved in with the PvP system. I don't think people who make areas realize that nobody enjoys doing quests that require waiting months to find bottlenecks. What is the point of making all of that quest text and "coding" the .zon when it only really affects a few people? In FK's case, it affects Morena/Ashiwi, Uxur's group, and me.
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Postby shalath » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:51 pm

Making Finn's head rentable is a good idea. As an aside, for the thief like amongst us, could you please make it load hidden on him? It's somewhat disconcerting to peek into his inventory and see him holding his own severed head... ;-)

-thalash
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Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:17 pm

Taking bets on them not making it rentable since it's a summon item. If shield didn't take 2 Fianna armors and 2 Fianna boots, it would make the quest take only 14 rares. Up the sage and necromancer load, and the quest itself will still take 3-6 months since everything else is hella rare.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:44 am

It's gonna be another long 1-3 months guys.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:30 am

Any of you find balor or khanjari moonstone lately.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:06 am

shalath wrote:Making Finn's head rentable is a good idea. As an aside, for the thief like amongst us, could you please make it load hidden on him? It's somewhat disconcerting to peek into his inventory and see him holding his own severed head... ;-)

-thalash


I suppose it could be worse:

Finn turns his head and fiendishly grins at you, while saying, "Hey big boy, are you here for head?"

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