Vortex Cloak

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Vortex Cloak

Postby Gormal » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:52 pm

This fight is one of the most risky encounters in the game, but the cloak was downgraded quite a while ago. I think last night was the third or fourth time that it'd been down ever. This fight has serious potential for equipment loss, and could be an impossible CR. I think that a boost in stats wouldn't go amiss.
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Postby Kegor » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:23 am

Couldn't agree more.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:45 pm

Never gonna give you up
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Postby Kifle » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:53 pm

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Postby Jhorr » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:28 pm

Nasty zonelet. Useless cloak.
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Postby Yayaril » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:43 pm

8)

I did the challenge of the Vortex once, and it was probably the most dangerous event in Toril.
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Postby Pril » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:32 pm

Yayaril wrote:8)

I did the challenge of the Vortex once, and it was probably the most dangerous event in Toril.


I thought the most dangerous event on Toril was grouping with Mori?
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Postby Birile » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:54 pm

Pril wrote:
Yayaril wrote:8)

I did the challenge of the Vortex once, and it was probably the most dangerous event in Toril.


I thought the most dangerous event on Toril was grouping with Mori?


That Cofen would say this is TOO too funny. :lol:
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Postby Shaiith » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:12 pm

Pril wrote:
Yayaril wrote:8)

I did the challenge of the Vortex once, and it was probably the most dangerous event in Toril.


I thought the most dangerous event on Toril was grouping with Mori?


Mori is more dangerous than not having fire protection in Meilich?

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Postby Todrael » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:45 pm

It was epic doing it for the first time. I think it was Lurgo who tried soloing it, not knowing what was next... then bringing in 4 or 5 others to help CR him, and none of us knowing how to get out, or what was through the next portal. We spent several hours in there iirc due to how cautious we were being... good times. I keep one of the cloaks in my bag just for the memories.
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Postby Todrael » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:46 pm

Double post. Maybe I could use this one for something constructive... uh... fix the cloak stats, so I don't have to keep an epic, difficult zone item in my bags rather than on any of my chars?
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Shevarash » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:41 pm

I remember reviewing the Vortex fight many years ago when UM2 was in testing, and I remember how unique and difficult it was. I wasn't sure anyone would ever even beat it, to be honest. This item could definitely use some love.

I put in a pretty significant upgrade for the vortex cloak last night which will be in the next reboot. I'd be happy to hear your feedback on the change.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Gormal » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:43 pm

I like the upgrade but think its a bit much. Reduce to ac to 10 and the hp to 20 and you're still looking at the best damage cloak in the game unless you need stats from seelie cloak, or prots from silversaan.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Dalar » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:35 pm

Can you please review every other zone that actually deserves these kind of stats? FK/CM/GD please.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Gormal » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:40 pm

I would say that the proc needs to be 1/3days or 1/week too. Every half hour plus the stats makes this the best cloak in the game for every class hands down. Make sure that you have to wear the cloak to charge it and maybe consider making it lose its charge when removed.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Shevarash » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:43 pm

I'll take another pass at it, thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Dalar » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:54 pm

Shevarash wrote:I'll take another pass at it, thanks for the feedback.


Can you make a pass at FK/CM/GD quests too plz? The epic ones.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Malia » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:25 pm

dont change the duration of a proc charge. All the 1/week procs like icicle cloak and stuff cant even get used in 1 zone unless your charging it before hand. Leave proc as it is, decrease or remove the hp. If its a hitters cloak with damage then remove the hp. The ac is fine and in line with rest of cloaks in game too. My 2cents.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Thilindel » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:47 am

Given that vortex isn't done, and Shev admitted that he didn't think it could be done, shouldn't a few more runs of doing the vortex be tried before saying it's too good and that is that?
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby shalath » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:15 am

I think making it 1/week is a great idea. The cloak has good enough stats that folk will want to wear it all the time, so it will charge. The proc should exist as a life saver if things go wrong.

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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Gormal » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:46 am

The proc is what makes it so strong, mirror images is an incredibly strong ability to use every 30 minutes. Comparing it to Ymir's cloak is just silly, Ross. You'd use mirror images any chance you could, who cares about 3hit and ice storm garbage, its the complete invulnerability to attacks that makes this thing as good as a top tiamat item with its current stats.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Gormal » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:48 am

Thilindel wrote:Given that vortex isn't done, and Shev admitted that he didn't think it could be done, shouldn't a few more runs of doing the vortex be tried before saying it's too good and that is that?


Nope.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Thilindel » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:52 am

It was told to me wrong I guess. I was told it was invisibility, not mm. Woot
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Gormal » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:01 pm

As you invoke the power of the Vortex, several shadowy images coalesce around you. The forms begin slowly assuming your exact visage untilfinally solidifying into your perfect copies.

As Lase invokes the power of the Vortex, several shadowy images coalesce around her. The forms begin slowly assuming her exact visage untilfinally solidifying into her perfect copies.

There's also no "Nothing seems to happen as you whisper 'keyword' to your shimmering cloak of the vortex"... which isn't a big deal but an easy addition.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Shevarash » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:10 pm

Oops, thanks for catching that.

I'm leaning towards extending the proc recharge time slightly (1.5 - 2 game days) and shaving some hp off. Also, it's not that big of a deal, but the mirror image on the cloak caps out at 40th level.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Gormal » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:36 pm

I think that the reason its so powerful is because its !bits. Ignoring everything but 3dam and a mirror images proc its still a top notch item for hitters. The ac and hp alongside the proc make it the best caster cloak around too and no one is stopped from wearing it.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Corth » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:07 pm

Wow.. mirror images for a tank is really powerful. Its amazing for the guy running into the invasion gatehouse.. or BC gates, etc. Mirror images basically means that 10 attacks that would have otherwise hit you, don't. I would definitely not allow use of the proc very often at all. And that cloak better be seriously difficult to get.. with possible corpse loss.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Gormal » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:10 pm

It is tough to get with possible corpse loss, but I think that organizing 30 people for 6+ hours should merit stronger rewards than what could possibly be done by 5 in 1 hour, (though 10 is a good safe number I expect to see do it typically).
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Yasden » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:50 pm

I love having 2 volances for this reason. When I was loaned a valhalla and stability boots, I was outliving the entire group constantly the last time I did Magma. Mirror images is powerful on a tank, but only if you're spelled up and have great AC. It doesn't last for dick on a fight like say, Izan's entry if your AC is barely at -110 and you've only got dscales and blur up.

Volance recharge time is 24 minutes, and I've no clue what level the spell is.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Gormal » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:32 am

The thing with mirror images is that its a class-only spell being given to others on top of the buffs that they are getting. Making the vortex cloak displace every 24 minutes would be reasonable too I think.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Todrael » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:21 pm

Just did the zonelet again a few minutes ago. Not quite as hard as I remember it... but looking back at my logs, I see that we had a level 42 enchanter, Gura was level 45, I was wearing some pure trash eq, etc. So times have definitely changed.

My suggestions would be to lower the proc rate as stated above, and to raise the HPs or Magic Resistance of the mobs inside the vortex. They don't last long enough to challenge the kind of damroll and spell damage we've got now - particularly the shadows. (though if they had lasted just another couple rounds and started getting spells off... nah, need more HP/MR)

Thank you for looking into the zone, Shev.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Pril » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:43 pm

Todrael wrote:Just did the zonelet again a few minutes ago. Not quite as hard as I remember it... but looking back at my logs, I see that we had a level 42 enchanter, Gura was level 45, I was wearing some pure trash eq, etc. So times have definitely changed.

My suggestions would be to lower the proc rate as stated above, and to raise the HPs or Magic Resistance of the mobs inside the vortex. They don't last long enough to challenge the kind of damroll and spell damage we've got now - particularly the shadows. (though if they had lasted just another couple rounds and started getting spells off... nah, need more HP/MR)

Thank you for looking into the zone, Shev.



I agree we just rolled the zone in about 20ish minutes. Definately need to upgrade mobs. It wasn't an issue of how long it took was the fact that we just steam rolled it. Thanks again shev for looking into it.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby shalath » Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:48 pm

Gormal wrote:The thing with mirror images is that its a class-only spell being given to others on top of the buffs that they are getting. Making the vortex cloak displace every 24 minutes would be reasonable too I think.


Actually I really like Mirror Image as the proc for this cloak, because of what the Vortex fight is. I remember doing this fight yonks ago and having it take absolutely ages - the fight should be harder for today's groups, sure. But the vortex fight is all about copies of you - it's *so* nice to have a fitting proc!

Totally needs knocking down so it can't be used that often tho :)
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:33 am

I think maybe to change the fight up some make a 'master of the vortex' mob to go along with the shadows something to give them an edge. As it is its definetly a kewl fight but it needs to be harder the 3rd fight (the platinum knights) is the hardest. Throwing in the 'master of the vortex' mob in there would make it an interesting challenge.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Dalar » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:13 am

How about some chp love as well? Interesting concept but liches = random wipes.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Gormal » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:36 am

Gonna chime in again to say that the final fight mobs could use something to make it a bit scarier. It did get rolled pretty easily this last weekend when Pril did it, but for those who went with him and are reading this thread, he made a very big mistake by not waiting for the zone to pop before starting the run. If it pops while you're entering a portal, you're so incredibly boned so while it sucks, you need to wait it out and that makes the run longer.

A hp boost is an obvious change that wouldn't hurt it much, but the MR suggestions might be okay, however its already advantageous to bring physical damage since its easier to control them than an invoker for instance. MR is a lame mechanic anyway as I see it. Something could be added to the room to keep people guessing. Maybe a room proc where the player is distracted or confused by the mirrors of people and stops doing whatever they're doing... or what if you made a proc that would make you randomly target a member of your own party, or pkill is enabled all the time in that fight except for areas.. I dunno options are open.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Pril » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:30 pm

Gormal wrote:Gonna chime in again to say that the final fight mobs could use something to make it a bit scarier. It did get rolled pretty easily this last weekend when Pril did it, but for those who went with him and are reading this thread, he made a very big mistake by not waiting for the zone to pop before starting the run. If it pops while you're entering a portal, you're so incredibly boned so while it sucks, you need to wait it out and that makes the run longer.

A hp boost is an obvious change that wouldn't hurt it much, but the MR suggestions might be okay, however its already advantageous to bring physical damage since its easier to control them than an invoker for instance. MR is a lame mechanic anyway as I see it. Something could be added to the room to keep people guessing. Maybe a room proc where the player is distracted or confused by the mirrors of people and stops doing whatever they're doing... or what if you made a proc that would make you randomly target a member of your own party, or pkill is enabled all the time in that fight except for areas.. I dunno options are open.



Definitely interesting idea Gormal, i agree that MR wouldn't really do too much. i'd say raise the hps. and yeah some sort of proc would be cool. i don't think making people be targeted would work because you could just target shadow. However maybe some proc could be cool if it were something like:

The shadow of Asda glides through Asda creating confusion.
This causes everyone who was targeting that shadow to target Asda instead.

shrug not sure but needs to be beefed up.

or maybe something like:
The shadow of Asda glides through Asda drawing on his life force.
Asda loses half of his current hps.

shrug just some suggestions
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Cordan » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:08 pm

Yeah, i do have to say that after all the talk, going with pril this past weekend on that run was kinda interesting. When we go the cloak, I was figuring there was another major fight or something to get out... considering how easy it seemed.

I'm not sure what the mistake pril made was, could you explain that? We started it, mud crashed, and we started it again soon after reboot... not sure... or were you just being sarcastic? lol
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Birile » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:35 pm

Gormal wrote:I think that a boost in stats wouldn't go amiss.


I'm still LOL'ing at your noob factor.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Gormal » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:36 pm

Pril made the mistake of not waiting for the pop before starting. It adds a significant amount of time where you just sit there doing nothing. But taking the chance that it will pop while you're entering a portal is too risky. He also probably took a fairly well stacked group in which makes it significantly easier. I agree that it could be a little more difficult, but its got a high risk factor which makes it tough. I wouldn't mind seeing the portals vanish after like 8-10 people enter so you can't steamroll it with a full group.
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Re: Vortex Cloak

Postby Cordan » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:43 pm

We had 9 people... two warriors, cleric, couple of rogues, think a ranger, my shaman, enchanter... not sure what else. I see what you're saying though.

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