black longsword of destruction

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fobble
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black longsword of destruction

Postby fobble » Mon May 12, 2008 8:53 pm

I don't think I've seen the rage proc last more than 3 round. Could we increase the duration on this to maybe 5 round? In three round, a warrior or anti-paladin get about 5 hits in total and that's not much at all (not counting haste).
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Gormal » Mon May 12, 2008 8:57 pm

But the proc rate is so high that you would essentially be perm-enraged making it a ridiculously strong weapon. Straightforward damage procs are a burst in damage, and getting an extra 50 damroll even for 3 rounds is quite a substantial burst. Either way, the gods addressed this one a long time ago when the sword was upgraded (yes it used to be worse) and tuned it to where its at now. I doubt they'd upgrade it now.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Yasden » Tue May 13, 2008 2:08 am

Make it 1h so warriors can compete with khanjari.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby flib » Tue May 13, 2008 9:35 am

Yasden wrote:Make it 1h so warriors can compete with khanjari.


good lord, no! how unbalanced would that be? We don't need abother class, a class that's actually pretty decently balanced, to get a class affirming weapon.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Sarell » Tue May 13, 2008 12:48 pm

I find doing anything solo as a warrior completely mindnumbing, and they only seem useful as tanks where rescues are needed. I'd like to see them do enough damage so that you can take out a mob 10 levels lower than you without stopping for a snack IRL.

Personally I've always thought weapons should be really cool. Most people get far more +hitdam from their items than from their weapons which seems a bit odd to me. "I'm going to stab you with this melting brie but my god these congealed blood earrings and toothy belt will make you pay when I do!"
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Teyaha » Wed May 14, 2008 12:39 am

i've had some painful brie
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Yasden » Wed May 14, 2008 2:09 am

flib wrote:good lord, no! how unbalanced would that be? We don't need abother class, a class that's actually pretty decently balanced, to get a class affirming weapon.


Umm...warriors are nothing more than hp-doped punching bags. They might have proficiency in every weapon type, bash, rescue, shieldpunch, but there is almost no worth in any skills they have other than defense/shieldblock/rescue, and once in a while bash/shieldpunch.

So yeah, a class-defining weapon doesn't seem out of place in comparison to a class that got one when they already had a ton of useful skills (rogues). Making twilight 1h wouldn't overpower the class at all. It just means they'd actually do some goddamned damage for a change.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby fobble » Wed May 14, 2008 4:13 am

8d6 5/8 rage proc to double hit/dam roll for 3 round duration and stackable seems pretty dang powerful on paper but in reality hardly get used by warriors and collects dusts.

I'd even go far as to say almost all of twilights in game are in people's bags/storage and hardly see light of day to be wielded. And when it does see light of day its most likely during exp group and even then...probably only after mob is blinded.

As for during zone, warriors are meat shield and basher so we almost always have shield strapped to our arms (as we should be) so we rarely wield 2h. Even if warriors do wield 2h during zone, most of time its for weapons that proc that affect status such as gytka para or mattock bash. On top of that warriors are loaded up on hp gear so doubling our hit/dam roll here doesn't do much.

To be honest even if proc duration is increased to five round, I don't think we'll see warriors suddenly wielding twilights instead of shield and silver ls or other 2handers. It's just that I always held twilight as class defining weapon since I was wee-newbie back in 1995? 96? and now that I actually have one...it was cool for while then I realized it'll probably collect dust in my inventory. Hence this post.

Note: Wasn't the original twilight back in the day while it was still named weapon...something crazy like 8d8 8/8 perm haste and rage proc? Current one is 8d6 5/8 rage proc/no drop and before the upgrade stat is 8d4 5/5 rage proc i believe.
Last edited by fobble on Wed May 14, 2008 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
loshaenar
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby loshaenar » Wed May 14, 2008 4:25 am

might want to think about making twilight +5max agi and elf only also to match the current strawberry flavour of the game.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Gormal » Wed May 14, 2008 7:02 am

I always have believed that warriors should be able to go damage and put out respectable amounts of hurt. Twilight is also usable by antis, and is their best pure damage weapon. Ogres, really have no business tanking and should be using 2hers and beating the crap out of people too. It makes more sense to make class/role changes before making a single weapon change to encourage people to use it. The ability to wear shields in combat, a bonus of some sort for 2h weapon damage, and maybe even an increased parry bonus would sort things out well I think.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Gormal » Wed May 14, 2008 7:04 am

loshaenar wrote:might want to think about making twilight +5max agi and elf only also to match the current strawberry flavour of the game.


Says the guy who main an efhr his main.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Delmair Aamoren » Wed May 14, 2008 8:33 pm

8d6 5/8 is where most 2h swords should be at that level. The 6d4 and 7d4 crap that is floating around right now isn't much better than a LOT of non-tiamat 1h weapons. I completely agree that making it 1h would make warriors actually do a little damage for once. Rogues truly do get the best skills and best melee damage. Lets have warriors and their subclasses capable of doing at least 75% of the effectiveness of a rogue in melee damage.

I'm not in complete agreeance of a 1h weapon having the dice listed above, as this would further my complaint about 1h weapons doing 90+% of the damage of most 2h weapons. I suggest a toned down 5d6 +4+4 and the proc. Lets increase the hit/dam on some of the warrior only hitter items, and add some hit/dam to the +hp items.

Just my .02
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Yasden » Thu May 15, 2008 3:22 am

Sweet, got Del in my corner.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Thilindel » Thu May 15, 2008 5:01 am

Why not just make this khanji crap actually reasonable? Rogues do stupid high damage here. I don't see why, given all their skills, AND physical damage to boot? They're the ultimate cheese whores, and one weapon is enough to make the twinkmaster6000 players drop their other rogues just to roll efhr. How the power in ONE weapon is still in the game and seen as acceptable still baffles me.

Warriors should personify physical damage. In Toril, they're like the red cape to a bull. It's pretty lame and boring.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby flib » Thu May 15, 2008 6:46 am

warriors in the real world are like that, but it'd be a total overhaul to make it like that here, not sure if 2.0 adresses this, I think it might.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Dalar » Thu May 15, 2008 5:33 pm

The easiest way to fix warrior damage is to fix their skills, not the gear. You seriously want to count on the Areas sphere to solve all your problems?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Gormal » Thu May 15, 2008 5:41 pm

flib wrote:warriors in the real world


quotin dis
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby fobble » Fri May 16, 2008 6:40 pm

Dalar wrote:The easiest way to fix warrior damage is to fix their skills, not the gear. You seriously want to count on the Areas sphere to solve all your problems?


Yes this would be the easiest and the best solution. However...every post leading to any significant skill change inevitably leads to 2.0 and will be in limbo for unknown amount of time. So where that leaves the option of asking for...

1. 2.0
2. Fix gear
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Teyaha » Fri May 16, 2008 11:41 pm

i remember when warriors dual wielding 3d5 +5+5 swords out of SF were the shit.

(i might be off on the dice, but i remember the +5+5. was only ever able to snag one on my warrior, Tesi had two)
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby ssar » Fri May 16, 2008 11:59 pm

Yea, upping the twilight rage proc duration a little wouldn't hurt.

Adding an ogre-only extra effect when wielding it would be cool too.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Yasden » Sat May 17, 2008 12:43 am

Just make it 1h and lower the dice on it to make it more comparable to other top end 1handers. Especially considering how much of a PITA invasion is now. 5d6 4/4 seems fine as suggested previously, and if you lower the weight on it (I haven't ID'd in ages, but I'm guessing it's got some weight for being a 2h), you have the option to dual wield. I'm sure everyone remembers the old days of Chaos with 1h setbit twilights being dual wielded by ogres.

Make it dualable only by the stronger races (wt 10? or so) and ensure it procs offhand (i.e. rage bonuses can come from either primary or secondary). Of course most warriors won't bother dualing them because a. they're damn hard to get now, and b. you're giving up your shield for a 50 cap dual wield skill.

Just my 1/50 of a dollar.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Gormal » Sat May 17, 2008 1:22 am

Why make it a 1h? That simply doesn't make any sense with the Ashstone swords in the game now.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Yasden » Sat May 17, 2008 10:22 pm

Ashstone swords were designed to be dual wielded by dire raiders and rangers.

Twilight is !ranger and !paladin, last I recall.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Gormal » Sat May 17, 2008 10:37 pm

Twilight is obviously a warrior and antipaladin weapon. Making it 1h ruins it for antipaladins, and makes it slightly less damage for warriors.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Yasden » Sun May 18, 2008 1:29 am

Real warriors don't 2h unless you're an ogre, you know that.

I don't know any anti that regularly uses twilight in combat situations. I prefer to use it when I'm xping or I'm doing group stuff where it isn't a major necessity to rely on healing to stay alive.

As for it being useless, I know some people are using valhalla on their pal/anti. So that's kind of an invalid argument. If you're just toning down the dice, the proc will still remain the same, so you're not losing a lot really.
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Re: black longsword of destruction

Postby Gormal » Sun May 18, 2008 1:37 am

2h weapon standards are the problem, not a single weapon. Twilight is the highest damage weapon you can get as a warrior unless you've got valhalla and a big pack of mobs. If 2h weapons were upgraded across the board, then it'd be fine. As far as using 1h weapons on pal/antis, I do it myself if I'm tanking if I can't get bark and armor. With valhalla, there's really no choice for pure tank utility since its supposed to be the end-all everyman 1h. If warriors could wear shields in combat, then swapping for a 2h would be MUCH more viable.

I think the way 2h weapons are a gameplay problem rather than a stat problem with the exception of the dice being a little low... but a blanket code change could fix that.

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