Remove rareloads

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Thilindel
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Remove rareloads

Postby Thilindel » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:26 pm

More out of curiosity, but wouldn't the game be more fun if there weren't rareloads? Just make the items needed more heavily guarded, or at worst, just semi-rare. Rareloads do nothing. There's no skill in hurry up and waiting. There's certainly no fun in it either. Typically, I see at least a couple people rush around after reboot/crash, and if nothing's there of interest, there they log.

If I understand it right, rareload quests really reward the frequency of your being disappointed numerous times prior to the item(s) finally having loaded...am I right?
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Dalar
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Dalar » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:41 pm

Yup
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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loshaenar
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby loshaenar » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:15 am

[quote="If I understand it right, rareload quests really reward the frequency of your being disappointed numerous times prior to the item(s) finally having loaded...am I right?[/quote]

Actually i thought it was the other way round? Most people who finally get the rare and finish the quest are disappointed with the end result, or more particularly with the time they've wasted trying to be here when the mud is booted. Maybe a glass half-empty analogy.
Adriorn Darkcloak
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:09 am

This is harder than it looks I think, although I tend to agree that rareloads are, and always have been, a horrible idea. If you're the only one looking for a particular rareload, it's much less frustrating than having to compete each and every boot against 4-5 others (see ZK 2+). If you happen to be the only one questing that particular rareload at a given time, the frustration is less. But as Losh put it, then it becomes a question of how many times must it NOT load to compensate for the reward. Typically half the rewards end up not compensating for the time spent each and every boot checking for it (see ZK 1, Airship, CM (haha CM)).

Make rares load over time, and you make it less frustrating somewhat, and lower the chances of the post-crash rush. But then you'll be fighting with campers (see Ashgorrock, Lurkwood, etc.) who value the item more than other players. Regardless, in the end I think load over time makes things better off.

But I think Losh brought up the bigger picture: is the quest worth searching/looking each boot for 25 boots? I can think of one rare/quest reward in MD that is purely laughable. Same goes with ZK. Same goes with 98% of CM quests. Same goes with 80% of Airship quests. And there are more, these are just a few that came to mind cause I've been involved with them lately for various reasons.

But yes, for 80%(?) of all the rareloads, making them load over time would fix the frustration and waste of time. Maybe add a way to know that x rareload won't be loading at all?

I hope I wasn't too convoluted.
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dem
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby dem » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:36 pm

Hi again!

I strongly recommend against removing rareloads. All the rareloads on toril and it's many epic quests is what finally made me give up on Duris and start playing here again. Running around killing the same players and doing the same zones over and over grew really boring after all. Sure they had a couple of quests and a few rareloads. But at the end of my days on Duris I kept dreaming back to my days of hunting GC and the thrill of trying to finish Erlan...

I see the problem with involving alot of rareloads in the quests tho. Especially since alot of rares are used in many quests (atleast this is what I heard). I think if quests would be more oriented around normal loaded eq people can accept to give up alot of normal eq for a small improvement.

Then you can can also justifying giving rareloaded eq better stats because people will actually use them on their characters.

/Koxa
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Dalar » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:30 am

Really? Because doing FK over and over again as well as CM farming made me quit this game. That's pretty boring too.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Gormal » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:49 am

All things in moderation.
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Dugmaren » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:37 am

Agreeing with Gormal on this one.. I like rareloads, who doesn't get excited when they find Kostchtchie or Invasion. You get excited BECAUSE it's rare. On the other hand I was never a fan of ridiculous rare hunting for quests.

Dug
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:16 am

Those are awesome rareloads Dug, because they aren't things you expect to find there, and aren't (for the most part) part of any quests. Same thing with many Izan rareload mobs. Rareloads in SPOB with an extra crystal would be awesome. Etc. But rares as part of quests is the issue at hand I think.
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Thilindel
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Thilindel » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:53 am

I should have specified I think.

I love rareload mobs that don't involve their drops with anything to do in further quest, such as khanji's or other gargantuan quests. I like rare mobs that have eq that's nice, most definitely. But rare mob hunting to further longer quests..that's maximum suckage. I'm fully with Dalar in repeated disappointment in rare hunts. And I also like the rares over time type that are in greydawn to a certain extent. some take months to load despite a chance per repop. Bleh, and as w/o saying, they're part of a bigger quest, of course!
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Tasan » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:47 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Typically half the rewards end up not compensating for the time spent each and every boot checking for it (see ZK 1, Airship, CM (haha CM)).


Problem is, most quests WERE balanced years ago before the influx of easily obtained zone equipment. Now they suck, the rewards suck and they aren't worth doing, kind of like most of the really old zones. Inflation is a bitch.
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:13 pm

Oh I know Tas, but it's like wanting new computers to still come with a 3.5 drive just because years ago they were the bomb. New things come around, and some are better than the last ones. With growth also comes inflation of this kind, that's fine, as long as it is somewhat controlled.

But hey, people still do Erlan's. People still do your moccs. People still do old zones that have rewards that can still have a use today. I'll go back to Airship: the hitter/gret gear that comes from there is still awesome.

BUT, the staves from there blow (and prolly did back then) compared to the time/items invested. The robes from there are mega poop. The helm has a stat that doesn't even apply to psis, thus rendering it poop. CM has 2 quests that are worth doing, out of 50+.

I gotta go, my break is over.
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Botef » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:01 pm

A big distinction is rares that are easy to check vs ones that are not. I have no qualms with rares that require a little effort to check for the most part. Whats bothersome are easy to check, at-boot rares that everybody wants, particularly if they are locatable. A good example are the IC rares which for the most part are camped and checked within a few moments of rebooting. Those kind of rares present little challenge and detract from the overall experience of doing a quest. It is especially disheartening to see the same handful of people nab these rares consistently.

I'd much rather see rares like these load over the course of the boot so anyone, at any given moment, can go check a rare they need. The alternative, waiting for reboots and crashes, is boring and prompts people to give up and leave.
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Raiwen » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:33 pm

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amena wolfsnarl
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:09 pm

Rares are a huge pita. I spent 3 months looking for an eye tyrant in ashgrock and that was pretty much every boot for a while there i think i was the only one doing it. There is a kewl feeling you get when you are competing with a couple people to find 1 rare and theres is a huge race to find them. When you beat the other people to it, it kinda does make the months waiting for it seem almost worthwhile, almost.

I personally think that rare checking should not be done with a spell, make the people run around trying to check those locations, It will force people to prioritze what items they want and some of those campers at IC will probably wonder onto something they need more or is more likely to load. Thats just my 2 cents
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Corth » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:35 am

Yeah I think I'm with Dug on this one. Rareloads like kostchtchie that dropped useable eq were always exciting. Rareloads for quests just sucked. Its not at all fun to wait for a stupid rare to load so you can get to the next step of your quest. Its just a lot of disapointment and lost time.
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby kanenan » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:05 am

I think rareloads are killing the small pbase we have.
If there was less rarity, people could quest their gear faster freeing them up and giving them more incentive to do more zoning.
There is ever really only one *visible* zone group at any given time, the other 20 or so people are hunting rares or perma afk..
Looking at and modifying or removing rarity % on a lot of mobs could even create more time to do things like.. Tiamat, and a plethora of zones that aren't done b/c of how rares are killing player availability. Of course the top tier items should retain rarity, i just think there's too much of it.
stuff.
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Delmair Aamoren » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:55 pm

kanenan wrote:I think rareloads are killing the small pbase we have.
If there was less rarity, people could quest their gear faster freeing them up and giving them more incentive to do more zoning.

Of course the top tier items should retain rarity, i just think there's too much of it.


You're contradicting yourself a bit here. I think rareloads are one of the few things keeping people here. Quests take time. That is their point. You don't need to have all the greatest quest gear to get a zoneable eq set. There is a lot of incentinve to do quests as a lot of the ingredients come from different zones.

Therefore, keep rareloads. Perhaps adjust frequency on a few of the ultra rare ones, and problem solved.

Del
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Dalar » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:41 pm

Can someone tell me why the hell I spent a year questing 26 rares into a shield from FK when there's a 2-3 step Klauthen Vale quest that has 7 less hp? Really? 7 HP? does that make a difference when dragons proc 500 hp hits?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Thilindel
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Thilindel » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:22 pm

That pretty much sums up why I hate rares! Thanks brian :)
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Dalar » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:39 am

I don't mind if the time actually matched the rewards. There are a few quests that are made completely worthless by new zone makers.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby spunionring » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:07 pm

i know it sucks for you brian.. but seriously, you knew what you were in for when you got into fk epic, dont act so surprised :P

I dont think you can really say the klauth shield is what killed the fk shield. If a quest that has been ingame for.. how many years? has only been done, what once? twice?

I for one am glad that new quests for priest shields are not being expected to have the equivalent time investment as the fk quest.

k thats my 2cents, continue begging for upgrade on your new item :)
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Gormal » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:27 pm

FK is not the only zone/quest with significant problems. He's just using it as a prime example.
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Re: Remove rareloads

Postby Dalar » Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:35 am

spunionring wrote:i know it sucks for you brian.. but seriously, you knew what you were in for when you got into fk epic, dont act so surprised :P

I dont think you can really say the klauth shield is what killed the fk shield. If a quest that has been ingame for.. how many years? has only been done, what once? twice?

I for one am glad that new quests for priest shields are not being expected to have the equivalent time investment as the fk quest.

k thats my 2cents, continue begging for upgrade on your new item :)


I've been "begging" for an upgrade since I was half-way done with the quest FYI.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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