Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

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Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby fobble » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:12 pm

Hi, I was wondering if we're allowed to ask Gods for reimbursement of lost necro pet gear from a crash. Like arrows lost from crash for rangers
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Thilindel » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:31 pm

I do hope you get it back. To make it easier for admin to limit slots, like 5 and that's it. *shrug* If you fully equip 5 ghasts like llaldara did, omg that'd be hard to keep track of!
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Pril » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:14 pm

I swear all 5 ghasts had Valhalla Scepters and Tia armor and circlets!
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Yayaril » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:51 pm

It was fun doing the faerie queen fight with ghasts equipped with Tridents of the Undead when they still procced for your minions.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Ardessa Moonblade » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:18 am

Ranger get crash reimbursement on arrows? I've been waiting since July of last year for arrows lost in an epic Izan's spank/crash. It seems the staff is too busy to follow up on that.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Dugmaren » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:41 am

Rangers get arrow re-imbursement because to arch they HAVE to put their equipment in a situation that's vulnerable to loss by crash. My opinion is that necro's shouldn't receive re-imbursement.

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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby fobble » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:07 pm

Last time I lost necro pet gear was over 3~4 months ago. I was speaking with Kreznyk and he just lost 6 weapons for his pets. I had similar situation several months ago and I know Chany also lost buncha of gears further back. So it was a general question for Gods for all necro/lich players.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby fobble » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:27 pm

Dugmaren wrote:Rangers get arrow re-imbursement because to arch they HAVE to put their equipment in a situation that's vulnerable to loss by crash. My opinion is that necro's shouldn't receive re-imbursement.

Dug


You have a valid point that that rangers must use arrows to use archery and that makes arrows vulnerable. I disagree respectfully on point that rangers have to put their equipment in loss by crash situation. Rangers don't have to use archery and don't have to use good arrows if they wish to avoid that type of situation. But rangers do so to maximize damage output and reduce burden on casters for globe/ward/haste.

Necro/lich players don't have to put their equipment in loss by crash situation if they don't equip their pets. However necro/lich do equip their pets to maximize their damage output. I realize that ranger can't shoot bow without ammo and ammo is vulnerable to crash. However they don't have to archery to do damage and just means they'll be doing less damage.

I know I could sound like a whiny dumbass but I just wanted to raise the point. Once again, I haven't lost any equip on pet in months but just putting it out there for others who have recently.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Botef » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:25 pm

For one necros/lichs would probably have to be downgraded. I don't know if anyone has really done much testing but I suspect the damage output from a pet geared with a legitimate damage set is pretty intense. If your gear was reimbursable you'd see people like Ross and myself roaming around with wights decked out in full on hitter gear. Not only would this present a balance issue, but also an administration issue in that reimbursing so many pieces of gear would be quite cumbersome even before you take into account verifying each claim.

It stinks that you can lose several weeks of time and effort collecting eq because someone decided to 'test' a crash bug, or the mud just crashed on its own. But as much as I'd like to get gear lost in those situations back, I doubt the original scope of the class was dressing pets up in full sets of eq.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Callarduran » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:27 pm

The difference is not that rangers can choose to use archery or not. Necromancers can choose not to use undead or not either.

The usage of archery requires you to risk arrow loss. You can use undead without equipping them. Equipping undead is a choice, not a requirement of using them.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby fobble » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:51 pm

Got it, thanks for clarifications everyone.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Gormal » Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:28 pm

Honestly, I'm not a fan of that logic. "You don't have to play your class as effectively as you're able to." sounds like possibly the worst excuse since Gizep tried to justify his neckbeard. I don't think that the system of risking gear loss is an ideal way to handle necro pets, but if you treat it as a consumable that was coded poorly, then things feel at least a little more plausible.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby shalath » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:46 pm

Fundamentally the problem here isn't "you shouldn't use EQ on necro pets because they might die and some mob might loot it", which would be reasonable. It's rather "you shouldn't use EQ on necro pets because the mud might be bugged and crash and you will lose it".

I think that it should be reimbursed after a crash. It's not the necro's fault that the mud crashed (in most instances, certain people excluded). So why should he suffer the penalty?
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Thilindel » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:05 am

Given there are stables to keep track of pets, if there were a way to force autosave pets' equipment - basically a NPC PC, if you will..that'd solve this?

Fun alternative would be having quests for ghoul, wight, ghast.

Animate improved (ghoul, wight, ghast) ?

Add better skills/stats for these type pets, but only allow certain slots to be worn (shield?) or wielded. Dunno, just grabbin' straws
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Botef » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:45 am

I don't think the issue here is the crash itself as much as the scope of the class. I really doubt necros were allowed to eq pets with the intention of decking them out in 50+ dam rogue gear, and if reimbursement from crashes were allowed you can bet your balls that people would be doing that.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Yayaril » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:06 am

I played a necromancer type character in DnD and one of my favorite things was to think of gear to give my minions.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby muxxissinix » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:37 am

Callarduran wrote:The difference is not that rangers can choose to use archery or not. Necromancers can choose not to use undead or not either.

The usage of archery requires you to risk arrow loss. You can use undead without equipping them. Equipping undead is a choice, not a requirement of using them.


Callarduran have you played necro/lich ?

And is not requirement for a ranger use archery.

If you use archery you use your best arrows.
If you gear your pets why you cant give them the best gear you can?
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Pril » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:04 pm

muxxissinix wrote:
Callarduran wrote:The difference is not that rangers can choose to use archery or not. Necromancers can choose not to use undead or not either.

The usage of archery requires you to risk arrow loss. You can use undead without equipping them. Equipping undead is a choice, not a requirement of using them.


Callarduran have you played necro/lich ?

And is not requirement for a ranger use archery.

If you use archery you use your best arrows.
If you gear your pets why you cant give them the best gear you can?



Mux the point is having 5 wights decked in 30/60 gear is not the same as using better arrows.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby muxxissinix » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:53 pm

Never said anything about 30/60 damroll

Just make them wear some saves , ac , hps and wield some decent weapons.

If you played necro you should know there is a big difference of damage with wight wielding decent weapons or doing barehand damage.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Gormal » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:12 pm

You actually did say something about pets in 30/60 gear because if there was no risk of equipment loss, then that would be the norm. You're proposing an incredible boost in power to necros and liches without considering the side effects.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Pril » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:22 pm

Gormal wrote:You actually did say something about pets in 30/60 gear because if there was no risk of equipment loss, then that would be the norm. You're proposing an incredible boost in power to necros and liches without considering the side effects.


2nded. if i had no chance of eq loss you'd see 10 necro's doing tiamat w/o any help. think about it: 10 necro's = 1 spec 3 wights (lets say) = 10 tanks and 30 pure melee damage. Think that'll roll tiamat? Think about the other zones. (that's assuming they aren't liches i think liches can go 1 spec 4 wights maybe? not gonna figure out the details of the points at the moment since I'm at work.)

It'd be ok if you limit the slots they can wear or make eq lvl based or something or have a !undead flag on eq or blah blah blah but as it stands making necro pets not losing eq would be totally game altering.
The best of WTF statments of '06

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Danila group-says 'afk, machine gun in backyard started shooting cats'

Danila group-says 'afk a sec, 3 horned monkeys trying to steal hose'

Danila group-says 'afk, koala bear trying to mount my car'
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby muxxissinix » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:13 pm

You are missing the point here.

Pets actually can use gear, why I have to lost the gear on crashes ?

Game altering (balance ? HA !) is just a bad joke, few classes in game were totally fucked up using that way of thinking.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Pril » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:31 pm

muxxissinix wrote:You are missing the point here.

Pets actually can use gear, why I have to lost the gear on crashes ?

Game altering (balance ? HA !) is just a bad joke, few classes in game were totally fucked up using that way of thinking.


Really Muxx? You don't see how having a necro have 4-5 fully decked pets would break the game far beyond anything that Khanjari has done?
The best of WTF statments of '06

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Danila group-says 'afk, machine gun in backyard started shooting cats'

Danila group-says 'afk a sec, 3 horned monkeys trying to steal hose'

Danila group-says 'afk, koala bear trying to mount my car'
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby muxxissinix » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:57 pm

Can you stop reply if you cant understand the meaning of this tread?
Dont want to be offensive.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Pril » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:59 pm

The meaning of this thread is to stop necro pet gear loss on crash.

If necro pets don't lose gear at crash then necro's will deck out their pets out in the best gear they can.

This will alter the game more than khanjari has. Explain to me what I don't understand.
The best of WTF statments of '06

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Danila group-says 'afk, machine gun in backyard started shooting cats'

Danila group-says 'afk a sec, 3 horned monkeys trying to steal hose'

Danila group-says 'afk, koala bear trying to mount my car'
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby muxxissinix » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:01 pm

We are not discussing if this will unbalance the game or not.

Thats why I told before you are killing the game with that thing of balance/unbalance stuff.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Thilindel » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:50 pm

Pril: You mention necro then lich on lich having spec/4 wights. Necros of same level have same pet points as lich of same level. Every 5 levels you gain 6 undead points in either lich or necro.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Thilindel » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:52 pm

Oh, almost forgot. Pets have horrific saves in game. Mob's that raise pets don't have Player's restrictions. They don't need to soul bind to make wraithform, their pets don't have timers, etc. I do think if there were a PC/NPC (pet) autosave for a limited amount of items or at least upgrade..still - That'd be more variety!
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Dugmaren » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:24 pm

Wasn't Pril explaining why necro pet reimbursement is a bad idea? Or am I missing the point to.

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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby muxxissinix » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:58 pm

Dugmaren wrote:Wasn't Pril explaining why necro pet reimbursement is a bad idea? Or am I missing the point to.

Dug


Do you really think players will begin to play necromancer instead of other classes if the get reimburst for gear giving to his pets ?
Do you really think necromancers will be the more needed class to zone with that change ?
Do you know how long last a pet in a fight whit a dragon or spellcasters?
Do you really think all players can bear giving top end gear to his pets or just a few ppl can afford that ?
Do you think there is no other possible solution or options beside reimburst or not ?
And finally, If the mud is stable enough to not crash then we shouldnt be talking about the issue of reimburst.

Who is missing the point, just because you dont like me pointing your friends can be wrong?
Give a minut to think in this and not just trow away just because some player said something stupid like giving top end gear to pets.
I bet there are smart people who can think a way or two for prevent abuses or balance pets.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Pril » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:21 pm

Do you really think players will begin to play necromancer instead of other classes if the get reimburst for gear giving to his pets ?
Yes

Do you really think necromancers will be the more needed class to zone with that change ?
Yes

Do you know how long last a pet in a fight whit a dragon or spellcasters?
Not too sure but we can find out.

Do you really think all players can bear giving top end gear to his pets or just a few ppl can afford that ?
No not all players can, but top level players will be able to.

Do you think there is no other possible solution or options beside reimburst or not ?
There are probably other options i was just pointing out the flaw in straight reimbursement which is what was being discussed.

And finally, If the mud is stable enough to not crash then we shouldnt be talking about the issue of reimburst.
The mud is stable enough in general however I wouldn't risk a set of top tier items on "In general" If i knew I wouldn't lose it to crash then I would rock it.

Who is missing the point, just because you dont like me pointing your friends can be wrong?
Give a minut to think in this and not just trow away just because some player said something stupid like giving top end gear to pets.
I bet there are smart people who can think a way or two for prevent abuses or balance pets.
Look I don't understand why you're being so defensive and insulting. There was a proposition I gave my 2 cents on it you gave yours I countered. YOU decided to write "Can you stop reply if you cant understand the meaning of this tread?" I explained how I saw the thread and you decided to insult me again (even though the first time you wrote that you weren't trying to). Yes there are people who can think of ways to limit abuses and balance pets however THAT is not the point of this thread the point of THIS thread was to discuss pet eq reimbursement.
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Danila group-says 'afk, machine gun in backyard started shooting cats'

Danila group-says 'afk a sec, 3 horned monkeys trying to steal hose'

Danila group-says 'afk, koala bear trying to mount my car'
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby muxxissinix » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:31 pm

I give up, I guess what pril think is absolute.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:47 pm

Dugmaren wrote:Rangers get arrow re-imbursement because to arch they HAVE to put their equipment in a situation that's vulnerable to loss by crash. My opinion is that necro's shouldn't receive re-imbursement.

Dug


Yeah. How dare you try to play the game and use the in-game features?

hmmmm...
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:49 pm

Callarduran wrote:The usage of archery requires you to risk arrow loss.


So crashing is a legitimate game feature and part of the risk calculation?

So everything that happens when the game crashes is supposed to happen and people should have counted on that?

The use of cars requires that you risk car crashes that are not your fault! Therefore, no judicial compensation for the victims!
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:58 pm

Let's try to re-frame the dialogue:

No one should be losing equipment due to mud crashes.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby shalath » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:20 pm

Can you ask for a reimbursement if you had some EQ on the floor and the mud crashes? Or say a mob looted your weapon?
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Pril » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:51 pm

You can just won't be granted. I believe it was Oteb who lost a khanjari to silversaan proc/crash.
The best of WTF statments of '06

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Danila group-says 'afk, machine gun in backyard started shooting cats'

Danila group-says 'afk a sec, 3 horned monkeys trying to steal hose'

Danila group-says 'afk, koala bear trying to mount my car'
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby spunionring » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:24 pm

take away necro pets' gear slots if they are unbalancing and/or are not intended to be a feature of undead pets

or

limit them to wielded weapons only and allow necro pfile to keep track of gear on pets
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Pril » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:12 pm

Or another idea might be to make undead only eq that binds itself and is saved.
The best of WTF statments of '06

--------------------------------------------------------

Danila group-says 'afk, machine gun in backyard started shooting cats'

Danila group-says 'afk a sec, 3 horned monkeys trying to steal hose'

Danila group-says 'afk, koala bear trying to mount my car'
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Ambar » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:47 pm

Hmm, haven't played in a while ... Last I heard in order for a ranger to arch he NEEDS arrows, sure he doesn't have to arch but in order to arch he needs arrows!

When did it change that necro / lich NEED to equip their pets? Sure it makes things easier (I have one of those lich things) but rangers NEED their arrows, lich/necro pets do not NEED weapons/equipment.

I think one of the reason I haven't played in a while is it is not the better player who is more successful anymore it is the person who writes the best triggers / timers / macros .. Heck we don't even want rares or hard quests / zones anymore so that everyone can be the cookie cutter player! Gone is the sense of achievement for figuring out / doing something noone else has or has done! Noone stands out anymore except the leaders. Noone who puts in a lot of time is any better off than the casual player, why should I who plays less than causally have the same chances as the guy who plays every day :( .. Now even sub-standard players with good triggers are fully equipped with Tia gear ..

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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby spunionring » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:27 pm

Ambar,
Did you read the thread?
The answers to your questions are right there. Does a ranger need to use arrows to arch? yes.
Has this been considered worthy of reimbursement on crashes, in the past, until now? no.
Does a necro need to gear his pets to use pets? no.
Can he currently gear his pets? yes. Do people currently gear their pets? yes.

Whats this you are talking about triggers making the players? Is there an example or a reference i missed?

The only time trigs are making the players afaik is farming plat or exp, which never required skill anyways.


Seems to me, a better argument would be that gear is making the players these days, and ranger with a bunch of dragon arrows and some nice damroll gear can assist for an 8hr tia run and get top end gear, without much of a need for any fancy trigs.

Meanwhile, the best players are needed to do the hardest zones still.

And BTW, I guess you havent played here in a while, but FYI there has been lots of new zones and quests, and the clever players that work on figuring them out first are getting just the sense of achievement you seem to believe is lost now.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Ambar » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:51 pm

Noone has ever derailed or gotten off track when they made a comment, my bad :)

You're right :)

*hug*
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Ambar » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 pm

never mind, not worth it :)
Last edited by Ambar on Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Ambar » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:59 pm

Not worth it here either :)
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Thilindel » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:14 pm

Ambar wrote:When did it change that necro / lich NEED to equip their pets?


That happened when players starting wearing eq because they NEED to..oh wait they really don't! Just helps to wear eq to make yourself stronger, more able, etc. Why not be at full capacity if not possible. Just in necro/lich case, as things are, such pivotal loss is quite potential.

You don't need to DISARM. Yet if you do, say you fumble khanji, immediately you see 'autosaving...' then crash. You just lost the dagger and you didn't do anything reckless. It's part of the game to use a skill (or in the thread's case eq'g pets to make them more capable *since owner doesn't gain xp when pet gets kills*)

Pets' saves are horrific if people have never seen them. Prism always rapes them. So having them wear saves eq, even, is up for loss as it stands currently.

Pril wrote:Or another idea might be to make undead only eq that binds itself and is saved.


Isn't that what I've brought up at least 2x before already? *dream* you can stable pets, so doesn't seem so far fetched to add this. Either way, it's not a huge argument. But pets' save on the mud are just junk. I don't understand why.
Grundar tells you 'I took on the entire football team once. The only reason my mom knew later was because I had a runny nose'
inomah
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby inomah » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:57 am

i think it's problem of crash right?

the problem happen when we got crashed

i saw sometimes we get back to zone when crashed

and sometimes can't

can i ask about condition?

i think there is missing rule

and when pets has full set of gears if that's problem

admin will downgrade it or not like khanjari because that's hard to get

if my english was wrong sorry about it :)

i'd like to participation on this free discussion


on my opinion
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Gormal » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:14 pm

That is the worst post ever. Welcome to wespeakenglishmud, I hate to seem racist but try to man up.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby spunionring » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:56 pm

I think Inomah expressed some very interesting points.

What is the "policy" here? If mud crashes while you are in the middle of zone, sometimes you can get placed back where you were and sometimes not?

He points out the problem is the crashing, not the necro pets. And the crashing has already required god intervention on the side of fairness for various aspects of the game: interrupted zone groups, CRs, failing disarm, rangers and arrows...

And of course, if necro pets with high end gear were powerful... well why shouldnt they be? Just like Khanjari, it would require a person to work hard with alot of zoning and questing to be able to build such a spanky collection of gear. If it was unbalancing then in that case is would be downgraded as we have already discussed. But the point here is you work hard and yes you get a powerful reward.
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:05 pm

Wow, talk about some heated conversation! This is all a result of crashes right? Why don't we just eliminate those and all the problems go away?

Seriously tho, the concept of reimbursing lost equipment has always been a sore one here at sojourn/toril. There have been a MULTITUDE of lost pieces of equipment due to crash over the years. These losses have been from pets, rangers arrows, flung weapons, items dropped/zapped in pond rooms, even procs from mobs followed by crashes. In the past, reimbursements were pretty rare. Today, a few of these losses have been eliminated. What hasn't changed, or shouldn't change, from a policy standpoint is reimbursement. This game is already flooded with equipment. If you choose to eq your
pets, like i do to my earth elementals at times just for fun, then do it. If you loose that EQ, thats your problem. That is part of the risk. Summoned/created minions weren't designed to be equipped with full suits of armor short of possibly a shield or a weapon. As it stands, created minions have all the powers that they were designed to have when the classes were balanced (yes, i realize currently there is quite a bit of imbalance, but this is certainly not the way to solve it, as necros are actually one of the most powerful classes in the higher levels).

So, in short, reimbursement is away from the standard, and should be avoided at most costs.

I believe the ranger arrow reimbursement is a short term band-aid for archery and rangers. The fact that in order to use one of their designed skills that they have to not only risk breakage, but risk the loss of these items that come fairly slowly as the result of zones and quests, is a pretty harsh penalty for using said skill. IMHO the obvious solution to the entire problem is increase the number of arrows awarded for each quest to approx 50-100, and then follow the historical pattern.

NO REIMBS.

Just my .02

Del
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Re: Reimbursement of lost necro pet gear

Postby Thilindel » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:22 pm

Gormal wrote:That is the worst post ever. Welcome to wespeakenglishmud, I hate to seem racist but try to man up.


Yet another 100% useful thread from Gormal..get a life instead of jumping ppls asses all the time, dick
Grundar tells you 'I took on the entire football team once. The only reason my mom knew later was because I had a runny nose'

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