Illithid Psi upgrade request

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
fobble
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Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby fobble » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:43 am

Psi as of now needs some help. Below are some suggestions, ones in minor upgrade are not overpowering in my opinion or game changing and just makes life of squid a little easier and less dependent on others for basic things as well as making use of psi skill that rarely get used. Major upgrade will definitely need closer look at.

Minor Upgrade
1. Body Control: At higher level skill, grant greater realm spell on self only (prot all)

2. Danger Sense or New skill: At higher lvl skill, it grants Detect Invis and Sense life on self only

3. Equalibrium: At high lvl skill, remove additional effects such as Ice blood

4. New skill Clairvoyance: This skill grants clairvoyance skill that work just like spell.

5. New skill Dispel Magic self: This skill grants Dispel magic effect on self only.

6. Cannibalize: Increase the conversion ratio of MV to PSP.

7. Cannibalize: Give option to convert MV or PSP to HP.

8. Mass Combatmind: Same effect as combatmind but applies to all followers

9. Clarify to players what and how stats affect Psi because wearing lot o Max Pow and Int gear doesn't seem to do anything...

Major Upgrade

Dominate/Mass domniate:
Improve the level of mobs that can be dominated and class. Right now its half of your level and that means level 25 npc max which is frigging gimp and at best is just brain food or to be thrown at bigger mob (ie lazy orc) for you to nuke for solo xp. Group of dominated lvl 25 npcs is more headache than they are worth in zoning and they die very quickly for squid to feed on anyway during zoning. Also casters cannot be dominated which is understandable because having 6+ casters (even though lvl 25) could be game breaking.

So about how about, we limit domination of caster class to 1 npc and increase the dominatable level by (50% + x%) times your level?

I'm not suggesting that domniate be upgraded to break the game or to make squid solo class. I'm just suggesting just enough tweak for squids to be solo bit easier at low level and bit more choices on what could be domniated for brain food.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Gormal » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:39 am

Re: Your minor suggestions - Except for the cannibalize/combatmind suggestions they don't make sense and can be easily done with eq anyway. Illithids are not spellcasters and don't need spellcaster abilities. As for can/cbm, I think that those are good suggestions for the reasons you've said and others before you.

As for changing dominate and how Psi's regenerate PsP, you're talking about a fundamental component of the class and it has to be tweaked pretty carefully. You have to balance classes around level 50 before anything else, so making a big class change like you're suggesting is a lot of changing. Psi's are obviously a class that's lacking, but they do have their upsides (soloability vs invoker, !feedback, burst potential).

I'd like to see some of the psi abilities changed to be on a short cooldown of equivalent time rather than insta-cast + lag. This is the biggest complaint of most psis, and is a relatively simple coding change yet makes the class hugely more playable and powerful. Combined with a slightly improved means of regenerating psp like your cannibalize suggestions, it could really put psi's where they need to be. Plus forcing some kind of spell rotation would be neat.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Botef » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:56 pm

Im with gormal on this, they don't need much changing. I also agree with the cool down idea as it adds a more dynamic element to game play than the lag currently associated with it. If dominate was going to be modified, maybe it could be changed to work on a point based system like undead points so that you could swing between a lot of small mobs, or one or two big ones. I don't know, Im just not sure. I second the request for clarification on how stats correlate with psi skills. If Max_pow really has no impact, then fix it or change max_pow eq stats to something else.
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fobble
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby fobble » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:41 pm

Insta cast + cool down would be so much better than insta cast + lag. Cool down time need to be just right so its not too powerful but enough so Psi can cycle some abilities while keeping the unique perk of instant ability of Psi (ie: deathfield and ultra for area cycle, telekinetic thrust, mindblast, projectforce, detonate for single target cycle).

Dominate/Mass Domniate is tricky but needed in my opinion. I think Botef's idea of point system like Necro may be great idea. I'd like to also add that why not change up the Dominate and Mass Dominate bit more so if you want to get two stronger npc you use dominate but to get lot of weak ones, you use mass dominate.

If nothing at all, at least clarification or explanation of stats affecting Psi. Is it Pow, is it Int, is it Con? or is it combination of stat like Psi in DnD (ie: Flesharmor is Con + Pow or purely skill? telekinetic thrust damage influenced by Pow or just pure skill level?).
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Ardessa Moonblade » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:57 pm

I think upgrades on this class would be the correct thing to do. I am not sure how to upgrade dominate without breaking it, as I do remember the days when you could control a horde of casters. Allowing for one spell caster would be a nice flavor upgrade, and would allow an easy way to get around the lack of detect invisibility. As for the balance of a cooldown period for a skill before it fires vs. instant skill + lag, I'm not sure. Certainly good to discuss though.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Botef » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:00 pm

The only flip to the cool down I see is that it would allow Psi's do runs faster than just about any class.
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muxxissinix
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby muxxissinix » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:20 pm

Edited.
Thanks gormal.
Last edited by muxxissinix on Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Gormal » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:23 pm

So because there's a problem with agility, you think that a class should be adjusted to compensate for it?

Isn't that a bit like buying a bigger hat because the giant tumor growing out of your head is giving you wardrobe issues?
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby fobble » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:57 pm

As for adding more self-only spell like abilities for Psi. I don't think it'd be so overpowering for a squid to be bit more self reliant? In current form Psi would have to be fairly wealthy, knowledgeable, and experienced enough to have no need to ask a caster to DI, prot, etc. them.

While Psionicists are no mage, Psionics class is supposed to be master of body and mind so having magic like abilities I don't think too far off. In terms of Illithid Psiconicists, a powerful being such as Psi shouldn't need to rely on a gear to have ability to see invisible things or gears to be able to protect themselves from extreme elements.

Biggest plus is for those psi that are starting out that doesn't have the gear for basic functions like DI, prots. For high levelers, it makes thing slightly easier when you are dead and nude. Even rangers can DI, DM self and rangers aren't even fully casting class. In that sense, Psi is gimpier than ranger in terms of non-physical power...pretty sad =(

I'm not even asking Psi to be dominating damage class, I'm just asking take a look at Psi and try to make the niche little better for Psi. I mean what kind of support utility class can't even DI, DM self without help of gear?
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby fobble » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:28 pm

Consolidate Skill for Psi

Right now each skill of Psi is its own skill level. Could we change that so its based as type of Skill rather than individual skill?

For exmaple

Psychokinetics (master) (93)
project force
detonate
telekineticthrust

No other class need to practice individual spell to skill them up. ie: invoker doesn't have to practice ball lightning, inferno, force missile, all separately to skill them up. Just invocation.

It takes a ton of time for Psi to skill up some usefull skills like Enlarge, reduce, flesharmor, simply because we can't dispel magic ourselves (unless we spent a ton of time or ton of pot on dispel magic) and because we need to skill up each individual ability.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Gormal » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:27 pm

I'll try one more time: psi's are not casters.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby fobble » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:56 pm

Gormal wrote:I'll try one more time: psi's are not casters.


This is true. Let me rephrase the request then, could we have Psi skill consolidated such as Bard, Cleric, and Mage. Bard song of regen and heal both fall under Healing Songs. Bard don't have to skill up Song of Regen and Song of Heal separately. Why can't Psi have skill up a branch of Psi like Psychokinetics instead?

Why is Psi the only class that must skill up each spell like skill separately?
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Gormal » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:23 pm

They aren't, because they aren't spells. They are skills/abilities, and in that respect they are just like melee classes who have to practice up every skill. That said, how difficult is it really to practice these skills?
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Ardessa Moonblade » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:14 pm

Flesh armor is the most painful one I've found so far. Took me about 2-3 weeks of idling to be able to practice it up to where it stone skins.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby fobble » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:37 am

Gormal wrote:That said, how difficult is it really to practice these skills?


It's really difficult and major pain in the butt. I have to say most difficult than any other class I played. Granted I'm not good at any of them but I did spend the time practicing the necessary core skills. Psi can't dispel magic (self or anyone) so we have to wait till buffs such as flesharmor, reduce, enlarge, tower of iron will drop just to do it again. Unless Psi is super rich and able to quaff dispel magic pot like madman instead of waiting for buff to drop.

Some buffs such as flesharmor lasts quite some time too. Also skill level of abilities like reduce/enlarge affects how small/big we can get. Plus you can't be reduced and enlarged at same time so you have to pick one or the other to practice. Most Psi will pick reduce so enlarge will remain unpracticed for very long time or not practiced at all.

FYI: I'm not complaining or whining because I don't have the skills leveled. It's for noobs and others whose going to embark on playing Psi. Things like extra bitching skill practice just piles on and makes the class gimpier than it shouldn't be.

Once again some reasonable items we requested would help in short run.
1. Clarification on how Psi skills are affected. Which stat(s) and what does POW exactly do? INT or CON do anything? Max POW help?
2. Upgrade some of the minor recommendations people can agree on like cannbalize and/or combatmind.
3. Take into consideration of converting Psi skills to have cool down time instead of lag.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby spunionring » Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:42 pm

I would like to see a little loving for squids. I think however, that most of these ideas are just fluff. While I agree that it would make sense, and not be overpowering for squids to have lots of the little adjustments mentioned. I think that they are minor changes that should wait until major issues are addressed.

Here's the things that I would want to be considered first:

Project Force/Mind Blast: on high level mobs (ie filler battles in zones) they almost never bash / stun. making this a little less rare would rock, and add an interesting and useful dynamic to psi in battles.

Synaptic Static: this skill is a very cool idea, but is completely ineffective atm. Increase the chances of para landing, change it to major para, add a chance for an effect like feeblemind...or something like this. More offensive utility plz!

Magic resistance: Why does this affect psi abilities?

Equalibrium: Making this a little more useful, ie cure paralysis, would be cool, tho minor


Now for more general things that I think would be cool, but are not needed necessarily:

Mana regen: the rate of mana regen sucks. if you find yourself stuck without food, your in trouble. Either increasing the regen of mana or magnifying the bonus from meditate or add a skill to vamp mana from mobs (like in homeland)

PSP crystal: i dont like the way these function atm, but overhauling them would take a lot of consideration.

Skill Prac: Yes, skill prac is worse on psi than on any char i have leveled. While it is easy to trig, my squid has pracced for tons of ptime and still has plenty of skills to prac.

Dispel Psionics: some ability to dispel psionics on self would help skill prac immensely.

TK thrust: id like to see this useable on doors for a chance of doorbashing

Danger sense: while i do think psis should get some di/senselife power, imo this skill should just proc awareness at high skill levels, and handle di/sense separately

Adrenalize: as far as i can tell this power is useless, since only warriors get those high hp notches. either completely redisgn this, or just remove it. imo this can go this same place that body weaponry went :P

Aura sight: make this useable on items to id. just another fluff enhancement, but little things like this would increase the enjoyment for ppl getting into the class. As is, you may as well remove this ability too.


As far as the rest...

Prots should just be worn, ppl who rely on GRP even when playing cleric, are fools. Not sure what prots arent currently covered by body control, but it does PFG and WB which are nice and useful to me.

Making a cannibal style skill to burn mana for healing would be cool. Or alternatively just straight up an alternate form of braindrain that goes straight to hps. {si are extremely squishable, and if you dont die, being able to heal back up is nice. (though realistically, you ARE going to die before you get the chance to use a heal power :P)

Cool down: interesting idea, but scared of such a fundamental change :P
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Xisiqomelir » Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:43 am

I just want Synaptic Static to work.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Disoputlip » Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:39 pm

I think it is fine magic and psi don't mix. This means that MR don't affect psi, but it also means illithids never should get di.

When it comes to skills I would rather have some new skills, instead of smallish tweaks.

I would also like to have some from ADnD, like dream travel. (Only work while sleeping, small 1hp version of you is created that you can walk around). if 1hp version of you die you wake up and take 50hp damage.

Mabye danger sense could be made powerful in some exotic way.

Mabye there could be some kind of hide spell where you did something that was a mix of non-detect, repulsion and disguise. Or some other Jedi mindtrick.

I don't know, but I would just prefer that it comes far away from mage stuff.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby spunionring » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:52 am

Disoputlip wrote:I think it is fine magic and psi don't mix. This means that MR don't affect psi, but it also means illithids never should get di.


Currently psionics is fully affected by MR.

Also, what you call Dream Travel, was a power in Homeland called Astral Projection. And yes, allowing a class other than rogue to have some scouting ability is cool. :)

If I had to pick a major overhaul to the psi skill set at this point, it would have to be to have some illus-type skills. Change self being the main one, but many of them would fit thematically and finally introduce some interesting utility into the skill set.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Dalar » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:30 pm

Also, fix mana issues during zones!
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby fobble » Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:27 am

Any upgrade for Psi by anychance or is Psi work priority is all in the backseat for Toril 2.0 due to lack of players that play this class as main?

fobble wrote:Clarify to players what and how stats affect Psi because wearing lot o Max Pow and Int gear doesn't seem to do anything...


If no upgrade, would it be possible to get explanation or clarification on how Psi ability works and what stat affects/affected by Psi?
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Kegor » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:29 am

Xisiqomelir wrote:I just want Synaptic Static to work.


It is not completely useless as is. Only thing I have found it to do is make mobs forget you attacked them. This has gotten me out of a few jams, even on agro mobs. For agro mobs you gotta tog wimpy max then use the skill in a very quick move, moving into the room the mob is in. The skill forces the mob to hit you upon using it, you flee, they stop tracking you, viola. But, it can only be used effectively on stupider races. Ice trolls in Jot is one of my favorite examples of making this skill useful.

It would be nice if it worked as advertised to have mobs forget spells, but most mobs that know spells are not quite stupid enough for any part of this skill in the first place. So that could be the problem.
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Re: Illithid Psi upgrade request

Postby Kegor » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:35 am

Dalar wrote:Also, fix mana issues during zones!


Not sure what you mean by this.

With Izan's PSP crystals given away readily due to the specialized nature and lack of demand of the item, it gives you an extra 635 PSP. Even without that, if you have your age tuned right you can get PSP back faster than casters can mem their spells. Then on top of that, there is the Cannibilize and Drain skills.

So the only PSP regenerating problem I can possibly think of is that it might be a little too easy to regenerate it.

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