A whole new dead horse, er, thread

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Thilindel
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A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Thilindel » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:15 pm

Shev says he's open to suggestions, despite years of detailed threads from kiryan, llaldara, and the like, regarding rangers, paladins, etc.

While the new clerical spells will help, I think the three main classes to be made fun of, shamed, and found 2nd rate to warriors/rogues would be Paladin/Antipaladin, and Rangers. Hell, Dalar GCC's that paladins/anti's are the worst class outright. Then archery is iffy especially when there's a crash or mob word's with your arrows.

When it comes to Rangers vs. Rogues, I truly don't understand how a rogue, that is so (and shouldn't be) vital to a group, outshines a ranger in virtually every category. Assassinate, poison, sneak/hide, blah blah. Rangers don't even get remove poison. WTF?

There's no balance for paladins, since they for YEARS can't tog vic, kill good aligned unless hostile (and then they get garbage for xp)..just almost . . pointless.


Any input Shev? I'm paraphrasing a lot of other threads, but some very detailed threads from Kiryan and especially Llaldara, laid out some really good thoughts on new skills and the 'Coming Soon' trap that you joked about last night. Define -relative- I would think over 10% of an average person's lifespan is not "soon."
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:56 pm

Rangers: remove poison spell or skill, add trip and remove bash, slightly higher defensive skills/riposte. Especially riposte. A 'flurry' type skill at 46?

Rogues: lower dodge, lower dual wield or double attack. Rogue skills should be based around 'sneaky' not on 'swordplay'. Rogue backstab should do more damage, as should circle.

Anti/Paladin: mounted combat blows. Compare it to shieldblock, which does not. Why is guard useless? Current tog vic makes no sense on Paladin. Anti's can't heal because their gods want them to die?

All tanks: higher natural hitpoints. The difference between a well equipped tank and a well equipped caster is insignificant. Why? :

The reason clerics barely heal in zones sometimes is because defensive spells on tanks are too good. Blur/displace particularly. Without those spells you begin to notice how tanks aren't NATURALLY tanking as well as they should. Well, except grey-elves...
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Karae » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:24 pm

Paladins have become useless thats why I quit playing four years ago. I don't blame a group for taking a warrior of a paladin, but it gets boring just sitting there, you can say go roll a different char w/ a dif class but I love paladins.

Hopefully some of these issues can be addressed in 2.0. I'm not hoping for a miracle, i would just like to be useful to a group, rather than sitting in a room to stop a respawn.
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Disoputlip » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:47 pm

I have one input about rangers.

I have seen ranger moving back to melee, that needs to go away.

I am assuming it is the latest downgrade that did it, and just want to stress that rangers should pr. default not melee. But when game mechanics motivates it, then it will ofcourse happen.
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Botef » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:19 pm

A flurry skill for rangers would be pretty cool. Make it consume 20-30 moves like EW, give priests a reason to use vigs in situations other than rogues moving corpse piles.
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Dalar
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Dalar » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:17 pm

Botef wrote:A flurry skill for rangers would be pretty cool. Make it consume 20-30 moves like EW, give priests a reason to use vigs in situations other than rogues moving corpse piles.


Holy fuck yes. I suggested this years ago when I was playing Ewar and I'm sure this is where you got the idea too.
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Teej » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:25 pm

I have some thoughts about why anti-paladins don't get healing spells. There's only so much one mortal can do, and our calling is to inflict pain upon others, whether directly through combat or by accessing the dark powers of our deity. Like paladins, we set forth to protect our deity's faithful, but we do it aggressively, painfully, and with luck the lesson won't be learned the first time so we can torture our targets yet again.

Healing myself - yes, it's handy to stand longer. It's far more delicious to rip a portion of another's soul out, to feed mine directly. For a while, I can hear their screams, can hear the soul fragment begging to be returned to its rent origins. I love the feeling, the knowledge that now my target understands the price to be paid when they finally fall beneath my blade.

Ah, but that's just roleplay. Fine, whatever; I like the class, but it's not going to suit the min/max number-crunchers.
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Thilindel » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:50 pm

The trouble is the damage spells that antipaladins have is not on par with what they lose during casting, that being melee. Hounds can be fun but it's rather long casting. The other damage spells are utterly stupid. Harm? Are you kiddin' me?

Let's take a look, shall we?


1st circle: cause light -lol whut? y would you waste the 20+ sec praying this?

2nd circle: armor - only useful spell in this circle

3rd circle: pain touch - pretty crappy

4th circle: curse -finally a useful spell..if a cleric's not around

5th circle: poison - this spell needs to be removed from the game

6th circle: blindness - What's the point, given they have poisons.

7th circle: minor paralysis - As useful as going to the mall with 8 cents in your pocket

8th circle: wither - nice if it'd land and last longer

9th circle: harm - Why the hell is this 9th circle? It does less than spectral hand.
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Teej » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:31 pm

I'd cast those for the fun of it. :) Cause light was handy when I was just a child, easily ignored by the riffraff around me. Well, they sure noticed when my 'pointless sermon' sent an arc of pain through their bodies! Yes, I'd abort the spell if they noticed my intentions, because you're right. Chopping into their flesh is certainly more effective when my prey has decided to kill me.

Also, when I was low enough level to be seriously looking at the lower circle spells, I had lower level gear. Casting matters more when you aren't just another alt wearing lvl 50 gear.

Curse does matter, as you pointed out, when you're the only clergy in the group - which brings me to another comment. Perhaps an anti-paladin is not effective enough for a large gathering, where people are told which top-level class to bring to maximize the damage output and speed the trip through the big zones. I was content enough, with my husband the necromancer and my lover the bard, back in the days when we'd go terrorize the littler places that the power groups didn't deign to notice. It was fun, and that's why I played. The challenge of doing Blip with just Lintral, not having optimal spells, pleases me more than wielding the fury of an invoker in a zone where my value is reduced to a dps. :)
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Thilindel » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:43 pm

You lost me once you spoke of marriage and a lover on the side! *gah* Menage a yuck.
Grundar tells you 'I took on the entire football team once. The only reason my mom knew later was because I had a runny nose'
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Teej » Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:51 am

I'll remember that tool for the future...
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Lilira » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:33 am

ROFLMAO Teej!
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You group-say 'my chars will carry the component on them if I can.'
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Thilindel
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Thilindel » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:37 pm

good god, lilira, post something useful

and teej, I find it dark and disturbing for anybody to even fathom the notion of adultery or anything else outside the bounds of marriage. That RP crap doesn't justify stupidity.
Grundar tells you 'I took on the entire football team once. The only reason my mom knew later was because I had a runny nose'
Teej
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Teej » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:53 pm

Well dear, I've had some questions about your choices and haven't decided to challenge your morals. I'll just stop looking at what you have to say, so I won't speak in your direction, and it may be a good idea for you to do the same. So my 'rp crap' won't stink up your world.
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Pril » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:58 pm

Thilindel wrote:good god, lilira, post something useful


Really? You're gonna yell at someone for finding something funny and posting as much? Don't make Sarvis go through all your posts and quote all the useless crap you've posted over the years!
The best of WTF statments of '06
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Danila group-says 'afk, machine gun in backyard started shooting cats'
Danila group-says 'afk a sec, 3 horned monkeys trying to steal hose'
Danila group-says 'afk, koala bear trying to mount my car'
Thilindel
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Thilindel » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:01 pm

Pril I don't post useless crap. I just think a lot. Silence, insect! Rar!
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Pril » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:07 pm

Thilindel wrote:Pril I don't post useless crap. I just think a lot. Silence, insect! Rar!


Thilindel,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBDxnItsCoI

Thank you for your time.
The best of WTF statments of '06

--------------------------------------------------------

Danila group-says 'afk, machine gun in backyard started shooting cats'

Danila group-says 'afk a sec, 3 horned monkeys trying to steal hose'

Danila group-says 'afk, koala bear trying to mount my car'
Thilindel
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Thilindel » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:14 pm

lots of touchy nerds on today! Just stay out of it unless you've got a reason for trying to be a dick specifically to me.
Grundar tells you 'I took on the entire football team once. The only reason my mom knew later was because I had a runny nose'
Pril
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Pril » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:27 pm

Thilindel wrote:lots of touchy nerds on today! Just stay out of it unless you've got a reason for trying to be a dick specifically to me.


Well you're preaching to one person and yelling at another person. While I don't condone cheating you won't find me on a soap box. So get off yours and go back to posting your ideas.
The best of WTF statments of '06

--------------------------------------------------------

Danila group-says 'afk, machine gun in backyard started shooting cats'

Danila group-says 'afk a sec, 3 horned monkeys trying to steal hose'

Danila group-says 'afk, koala bear trying to mount my car'
Dalar
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Dalar » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Dude, one time I went to the dentist and there was this Russian lady cleaning my teeth. She asked me if I was Chinese and I said yea. Then, she said hey I'm Russian. We are comrades! So does this mean we're comrades too Pril?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Thilindel
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Thilindel » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:04 pm

Pril wrote:blah blah blah.


And who made you referee? And what the hell does cheating have to do with anything? This thread clearly has the intent of making rangers and the like better involved for the player, yet you come and cofen it all up..gee thanks
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Re: A whole new dead horse, er, thread

Postby Shevarash » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:45 pm

Locked.
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