Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

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Dalar
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Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Dalar » Tue May 19, 2009 5:19 pm

What is the point of having such difficult exp when the only fun in this game left is to zone? Why do I have to spend 2-6 days of straight exp, then do all the quest spells, just so I can play a different class? Let's also not forget that the pbase is at its lowest and exp is incredibly boring as is.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Thilindel » Tue May 19, 2009 8:37 pm

I've come to the conclusion that xp'g actually hurts game interest. It only takes a few times to learn how to cast. You don't even learn mislead, sneak/hide, and what not from xp'g, but rather zoning.

A+ for Brian!

Plus, how many players who are new would zone if given the chance, but they haven't *laugh* "Earned their stripes" yet? not just days, but weeks worth of xp'g..mindless, stupid, redundant killing of mobs, waiting on pops, and for what? What have you, as a player, possible learned new from the 453rd time of killing the same mob, over the 212th time of killing said mob?
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Corth » Wed May 20, 2009 2:47 am

I suggested years ago that they just let you roll characters at level 50. It might not be ideal but the way the game evolved its all about zoning. The exp aspect is mindless. We get very few new players and we lose them all because the game is almost impossible when you are a lone newbie. Perhaps you can make the skills more important. Shrug.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Thilindel » Wed May 20, 2009 3:29 am

Hot and cold on the skills as much as I am the xp. Skills that are INSANELY difficult to notch, like assassinate - holy f*ck it is a nightmare.. WHY!? *sigh*

I quote the insanely addictive Diablo II system. You only needed to be lvl 70ish to defeat hell. Levels 71-99 were just bonuses for having been more experienced. PvP, a 70 could just as easily rip the highers up..was tactics, cheese, squirrels.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby ssar » Wed May 20, 2009 7:17 am

grundar wrote:i agree with this idea
i also agree with eliminating exp, making everyone 50 as soon as they enter the game with all quest spells and tiamat gear
actually i have a better one, why dont we just close the game remove all zones and just keep the roller on, as soon as they finish rolling and enter the game tiamat tells them "You win!"
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Dalar » Wed May 20, 2009 4:21 pm

Good arguments. Except the pbase is so small now that we don't the pbase rolling the needed classes to zone at all times. So if I wanted to start evils up again, I would need to tell people to roll specific classes and at least 2 classes so we could fill out a small group or zone group with the amount of PCs available. Before, with 50+ players, there would b4 something like:
4 enchanters
4 shamans
4 clerics
20 warriors
10 rogues
4 bards
etc.

Now it's something like:

2 enchanters
1 shaman
2 clerics
7 warriors
2 bards

So the odds of me getting an enchanter suck b/c he's in a different time zone.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Thilindel » Wed May 20, 2009 7:22 pm

ssar wrote:
grundar wrote:i agree with this idea
i also agree with eliminating exp, making everyone 50 as soon as they enter the game with all quest spells and tiamat gear
actually i have a better one, why dont we just close the game remove all zones and just keep the roller on, as soon as they finish rolling and enter the game tiamat tells them "You win!"


But what's the difference between this misquote and anything having to do with what xp'g serves, except to utterly waste a player's time.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Thilindel » Wed May 20, 2009 8:09 pm

ssar wrote:
grundar wrote:i agree with this idea
i also agree with eliminating exp, making everyone 50 as soon as they enter the game with all quest spells and tiamat gear
actually i have a better one, why dont we just close the game remove all zones and just keep the roller on, as soon as they finish rolling and enter the game tiamat tells them "You win!"


Oh, also as per the 'useful nature' of this quote, what's the point? Instead of quoting that jibberish, someone should take the time to say 'here's why I believe people should be forced to xp over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over....(2 days later) and over again. What's it supposed to do? Show how well each player can jump through hoops? Show some get away with botting for xp? Make us like college where we have to take worthless electives like classical music appreciation in a law, medical, criminal justice program setup? I don't get why the system is as it is.

I'd be absolutely fine with xp'g if it were even 20 mobs or so that were 6+ above a player's level. But at lvl 40+, xp just gets insane. Bards/bchanters have cleric xp tables. That makes no sense. Enchanters get stone/dscale xp supposedly. Too bad they're OUT OF THE ROOM half the time mem'g.. Just goes on and on.

Push comes to shove, my time is more valuable than for someone 15 yrs ago's vision that the game were worth being a mindless puppet, spamming enter and aliases (unless telnetting, which is even harsher). The game and it's lack of a visible, active forger does NOT warrant such tedious hoop hacking.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby fobble » Wed May 20, 2009 9:07 pm

Regardless of all the discussions on what to do about exp, the bottom-line reasoning is very simple. It's fun when you play with other players while doing something challenging.

In the past, exping used to be very enjoyable experience for players when pbase was large, forming exp group was pretty easy, and exping itself being challenging. You meet other players, played together, and exping was challenging back in the day & fun.

In present day, pbase is small and it's very difficult to form an exp group. Exping for established players is so mind numbingly boring that it puts you to stupor and makes you aggreviated. On the other hand, if you are brand new beginner you won't find anyone to exp with and soon find that exping is too much of a challenge that its near impossible to get the needed level (without putting in weeks of solo exp).

Right now sole opportunity for players to play together proactively while facing a challenge is almost exclusively during zoning. And very very few noobs get to this level.

On side-note I ran into at least 3-4 brand new players in past 2 months that stopped or gave up playing Toril because it was impossible for them to exp and found it 'unfriendly to noob'.

I don't have any solution I can put forward, just adding in complaints of myself and buncha others.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Wed May 20, 2009 9:15 pm

I had a level 50 player the other day ask me why he had to remove all worn eq to get ressed. I had another level 50 player ask me what I meant by 'consent'. I usually explain this to the newer players so that they learn how the process works. I refuse to do this to a level 50 player. (and hopefully we all know I'm SUPER nice and gracious offering to ress people in VT daily)

I agree that xp should be rewarded better. Killing Tiamat and getting 1% for the kill is stupid. Killing a level 55 mob at level 40 solo and getting 2% is stupid. But you have to ensure that each player is able to know not only how to play his class, but also how to PLAY period. But, at the same time, forcing someone, who has been here for years and years and wants to just level up a Cleric to help the greater good, to go through the horrid experience of speedkilling scouts for 0.5% is not acceptable.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Corth » Wed May 20, 2009 11:30 pm

Level 50 noobs is not a new phenomenon. It shows how useless exp'ing really is. It never did convey any knowledge of the game. Any -real- experience. Hell, I played this game for years and never once reached level 50. As soon as I was high enough level to zone there was no need to exp.. even to get a few more hp's and spells wasn't worth the mindnumbing boredom of it. Nowadays all that exp accomplishes is that it drives away potential new players. Its a complete waste.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Thilindel » Thu May 21, 2009 12:00 am

Corth wrote:Level 50 noobs is not a new phenomenon. It shows how useless exp'ing really is.
When I first started playing, the player TOUK told me to not gauge people by their level, but by their eq. Because the numbers meant nothing, as there were noobs running around everywhere. It was my first trip to any zone, which was good 'ol Vault. Hrm, I still miss poopil!



Corth wrote: Nowadays all that exp accomplishes is that it drives away potential new players. Its a complete waste.


100% right on the money
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Delmair Aamoren » Thu May 21, 2009 12:46 am

I am completely down with making exp easier. Lots easier. Coming in at L50 would be stupid tho. You need some time to learn how the game works, and to practice skills. Yes, raise skill increase a little, but don't make the levels the hardest part of becoming "zoneable". I think this change would bring life to the game. In addition, for those who are 50, and want "epic" skills/spells/etc, put in a system similar to old duris where you could get a potion to bring you from 50 to 51, and so on, making the max pc level 55. Make those increases totally unnecessary, and difficult, but achievable
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Dugmaren » Thu May 21, 2009 1:37 am

Know what'd be neat is if XP past say.. 41, was ONLY available from zoning.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Thilindel » Thu May 21, 2009 2:33 am

that'd be ok if 9th circle besides shaman were useful. Not so sure cuz no resurrection, no inferno, no tendrils, no rot.. However, if the mindless route to lvl 41, and the zoning xp was considerably better, I'd be all for it!

I've not heard any single person have a valid argument as to what you gain from mindless xp'g. Someone cited talking to friends. Well, technology and IM'g have eradicated that fully now. You do _not_ learn anything from the current system of xp'g.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby aeohir » Thu May 21, 2009 3:06 am

What about allowing multiplaying with a total level cap of 50?

This would:
a) yield much faster leveling at least until the characters hit 25th (or 30/20 or whatever the split you wind up with is).
b) help people level hard to solo at low level classes like mages w/o spanky eq.
c) let people practice skills useful in groups while they level up.
d) help people understand the interplay between different classes which is more translatable to zoning.
e) help people do harder things at low level, which adds interest for new people.
f) naturally phase out as people approach 50. getting from 46th to 50 would still be done largely without multiplay as a very low level alt wouldn't be all that much help. However, at least people would be zoneable faster.

With a low pbase, multiplaying is one way to increase mud population. If you don't want multiplaying to be allowed for zones you need to find some way to distinguish zoning vs. exping. Well, one way is the level of chars involved - hence a level cap.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Botef » Thu May 21, 2009 3:26 am

XP groups are out, power leveling alts during multi holidays is in.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Thu May 21, 2009 10:13 am

I hate to say it, but this sounds more like a half attempt to resurrect a dying game, than changing exp. It wouldn't be dying, if the powers that be didn't drive it into the ground, but it is what it is. I like the OP's idea, but this post is going to see the same amount of attention by the people who can do something about it as the rest of the useful ideas posted here. Which isn't much, though I guess I don't need to point that out.

To touch on the original point, I've leveled difficult classes, and back when there was a pbase it wasn't that hard. Could usually hit level 50 (or damn close) in about 8-10 days ptime. I've never personally played WoW but from what I've heard that's a comparable amount of time to the leveling system it has in place. Exp system broke? No, mud is broke.

This mud wasn't designed to be a solo game, and this idea may be a good step to adapt the game mechanics into what it has become. Personally I don't think it will fix anything other than making it easier for those who want to level their umpteen alts able to do so.

As I said before, I like this idea, but it seems to be a mask for a far greater problem.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Dalar » Thu May 21, 2009 6:12 pm

Botef wrote:Daggers groups are out, power leveling alts during multi holidays is in.


Fixed
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Dalar » Thu May 21, 2009 6:13 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:I hate to say it, but this sounds more like a half attempt to resurrect a dying game, than changing exp. It wouldn't be dying, if the powers that be didn't drive it into the ground, but it is what it is. I like the OP's idea, but this post is going to see the same amount of attention by the people who can do something about it as the rest of the useful ideas posted here. Which isn't much, though I guess I don't need to point that out.

To touch on the original point, I've leveled difficult classes, and back when there was a pbase it wasn't that hard. Could usually hit level 50 (or damn close) in about 8-10 days ptime. I've never personally played WoW but from what I've heard that's a comparable amount of time to the leveling system it has in place. Exp system broke? No, mud is broke.

This mud wasn't designed to be a solo game, and this idea may be a good step to adapt the game mechanics into what it has become. Personally I don't think it will fix anything other than making it easier for those who want to level their umpteen alts able to do so.

As I said before, I like this idea, but it seems to be a mask for a far greater problem.



You have MUCH more fun exping in WoW than here. Not many grind exp mobs all day.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon May 25, 2009 6:55 pm

Dalar wrote:Let's also not forget that the pbase is at its lowest and exp is incredibly boring as is.


I'm sure the players that are left had nothing to do with this :D
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby dem » Tue May 26, 2009 8:13 am

If we all sat down and wrote up one exp quest for lvl 1-10, 1 for 1-20, 1 for 20-30 1 for 30-40 and one for 40-50 and actually make the exp gained through that quest GOOD! mebbe the exp wouldn't be so boring... There would be alot of different quests throughout the levels... I did one of the steps of a huge quest in cm a couple of weeks ago that had an exp bonus to it. I turned it in with my lvl 30 something enchanter and it rewarded me 0% exp hehe..
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby grundar » Tue May 26, 2009 9:30 am

as far as i know the exp bonuses from cm quests dont work at all.. that zone sucks in every possible way anyhow.

let me ask you this question. what will you do once you have already leveled 1 char of each class? afk some more? thought so. there is a reason exp is slow and that is to give the illusion of a varied playerbase. there is nothing worse as a newbie than logging on and seeing you're the only one under lvl 20 and all the rest are lvl 46+ and readily ignoring your lfgc flag
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:04 am

grundar wrote:as far as i know the exp bonuses from cm quests dont work at all.. that zone sucks in every possible way anyhow.

let me ask you this question. what will you do once you have already leveled 1 char of each class? afk some more? thought so. there is a reason exp is slow and that is to give the illusion of a varied playerbase. there is nothing worse as a newbie than logging on and seeing you're the only one under lvl 20 and all the rest are lvl 46+ and readily ignoring your lfgc flag


Umm, hasn't it been like this for...years?
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Thilindel » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:44 am

grundar wrote:as far as i know the exp bonuses from cm quests dont work at all.. that zone sucks in every possible way anyhow.

let me ask you this question. what will you do once you have already leveled 1 char of each class? afk some more? thought so. there is a reason exp is slow and that is to give the illusion of a varied playerbase. there is nothing worse as a newbie than logging on and seeing you're the only one under lvl 20 and all the rest are lvl 46+ and readily ignoring your lfgc flag


That's a huge crock of crap. XP has sucked balls forever. You're trying to say that xp sucks more than a porn queen so it'll give the illusion that there's a player base? XP sucks here cuz some idiot thought that to hit level 50, that the average fool must leave their nuts in a vice for *tick tick tick* this long...
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:57 pm

Thilindel wrote:
grundar wrote:as far as i know the exp bonuses from cm quests dont work at all.. that zone sucks in every possible way anyhow.

let me ask you this question. what will you do once you have already leveled 1 char of each class? afk some more? thought so. there is a reason exp is slow and that is to give the illusion of a varied playerbase. there is nothing worse as a newbie than logging on and seeing you're the only one under lvl 20 and all the rest are lvl 46+ and readily ignoring your lfgc flag


That's a huge crock of crap. XP has sucked balls forever. You're trying to say that xp sucks more than a porn queen so it'll give the illusion that there's a player base? XP sucks here cuz some idiot thought that to hit level 50, that the average fool must leave their nuts in a vice for *tick tick tick* this long...


Xp used to be fun, when you have someone to xp with.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Sarell » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:45 am

I think I have posted this around 400 times now but I couldn't possibly not chime in on my favourite old topic; you could....

Downgrade exp, upgrade trophy!!!

So you get heaps more exp from killing something, but only once or twice. Then people would do different things to exp, learn stuff, and possibly have fun doing it.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Corth » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:33 pm

Sarell is right. The incentive system on the mud has been geared towards people 'farming' exp. It should be set to encourage people to goto different places and explore. It should take a fraction of the amount of kills that it currently takes to level - BUT - you should need to visit a lot of different places in the mean time.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Thilindel » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:27 am

Well, if you fight a lot, which I had as a kid, you learn each fight. They change from your style, and visa versa. Definitely shouldn't force that trophy crap on players. Also shouldn't force XP'g in general upon players. Diablo - playable once you get skillz. You don't have to rush for xp cuz you gain it while playing. This mud is way behind in the times. And its forger isn't ever on visibly.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby grundar » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:46 am

Thilindel wrote:Well, if you fight a lot, which I had as a kid, you learn each fight. They change from your style, and visa versa. Definitely shouldn't force that trophy crap on players. Also shouldn't force XP'g in general upon players. Diablo - playable once you get skillz. You don't have to rush for xp cuz you gain it while playing. This mud is way behind in the times. And its forger isn't ever on visibly.

thilindel = bas rutten of gaming

i dont get it, why do you insist in comparing this game to what is essentially a single player game?
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby fobble » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:01 pm

Thilindel wrote:Well, if you fight a lot, which I had as a kid, you learn each fight. They change from your style, and visa versa.


This is just bad comparison and misleading. I don't know what you mean by 'fight'. Is that in terms of street fight, sparring, schoolyard fight between couple guys whose not trained? Also I'm not sure what age you consider to be kid. Personally I consider myself to be a kid till I was few years out of college.

Past age of 16, I never had a street fight or schoolyard brawl so I'm not commenting based upon that experience. However I did spend 6 years of my life training, competing, and sparring a bit in Yudo, Kick Boxing, and Karate. To further clarify, I trained 2-3 times a week for 1.5 hours per session on average.

While I'm certainly not at the level of amateur or pro fighters, I certainly consider myself to be knowledgeable hobbyist. Also been lucky enough and had the pleasure to train and spar with small number of ama and pro fighters. Needless to say I got my ass handed to me. I'm saying all this to backup the things I am about to say and provide context.

While you do learn from each fight, when you fight same individual over and over again...you learn a helluva lot less and experience slower growth. This is why people find different partners to train with and spar with. Yes, you do try new techniques and different approach as you fight same individuals however that's only up to certain point because it's extremely difficult to change your overall fighting 'style' in matter of months. Especially as you get higher in your skill level due to muscle memory.

If you seriously want to put that in terms of toril...which I think is a very bad idea... You could say that Lazy Orc you fight in CM is same individual you are fighting over and over again. You're going to learn a lot by fighting em the first time up, little bit less second time up...but by the hundredth time you'll be learning a helluva lot less. You know generally how they are going to react, what their physical capabilities are, and how to go about defeating them. In a way it'll become a routine and eventually not that much challenging and hence you experience less growth.

Edit: Personally I think this is best solution
Sarell wrote:Downgrade exp, upgrade trophy!!!

So you get heaps more exp from killing something, but only once or twice. Then people would do different things to exp, learn stuff, and possibly have fun doing it.
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Botef » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:03 am

The best and most enjoyable xp I have ever gotten has been from mobs I've smote for reasons other than xp. I probably milked Rordai for 800% of buffer on my illusionist and had a hell of a good time doing it. I wish more mobs were like that, or rather that trophy made all big mobs like that.


Oh, and XP used to be fun because you didn't need alts and xp was a much more leisure process. Now days it is essential to have alts, not just for your own sake but for the sake of the pbase. Only a few core classes can get away without having alts and still zone regularly, and even those are becoming more and more competitive (see warriors).
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Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Lilira » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:42 am

I've been playing LOTRO. I have some xp playing EQ2 as well. Mud is boring. There is no story behind the XPing. At least on LOTRO there is a REASON to go out and kill all the wolves/boars/spiders/bandits over and over and over. Little stories wrapped up in the big story. In EQ2 you gain experience for locating a new place, which encourages exploration, and again you have quests that grant XP bonus in addition to the XP from killing mobs. "Hey Lil, those wolves are pestering travelers, can you go kill ten to thin them out and bring me the hides for blankets?" Wow... look... a reason. Ohhh.. extra body parts I can use in crafting or sell for cash. And most of the time, I can walk away when I need to.
~\o--Lilira Shadowlyre--o/~

You group-say 'my chars will carry the component on them if I can.'
Inama group-says 'hopefully they'll have some sort of volume discounts on ress items for people like you'
You group-say 'oh? Ya think? *giggle*'
Inama group-says 'they could at least implement frequent dier miles'

Suzalize group-says 'oh, eya's over weight i bet'
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Re: Permanently turn on double exp, remove exp caps

Postby Dalar » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:50 pm

Dug, hire me to do this!
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'

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