Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

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Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Inames » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:56 am

Healing Aura heals 50 hp every 4 seconds for 40 seconds, totaling 500 hp of health regeneration...
Full Heal heals about 450 hp on cast completion...

Healing Aura is an 8th circle spell, Full Heal is a 7th circle spell.

Healing Aura takes ***** to cast with a successful quick chant.
Full Heal takes **** to cast with a successful quick chant.

Healing Aura takes 11 seconds to mem with 100 wis
Full Heal takes 8 seconds to mem with 100 wis

the math would put healing aura as a more efficient way of healing, healing more hp for lest casting time, but its too difficult to use it effectively... as i see it you can use it in 2 ways, as a pre-fight buffer spell, or during fight as a healing spell.. theres problems with both of them though..

Because its a heal over time spell, it starts taking effect immediately after completing the spell. By the time you get another up, 2 of the 10 rounds of healing on the first are gone, by the time you get all 5 healing aura's off the first one has run out, and the second has 2 rounds left on it. This makes casting more than 2 or 3 before a fight pretty much useless because they dont have a chance to heal any damage otherwise and they just become wasted time in memorizing them back.

Because its cast time is longer than full heal, and because it takes 10 times as long to do slightly more healing, your targets in need will most likely be dead before the spell can finish its job in 40 seconds. This makes casting it in combat a VERY last resort and for the most part not worth using unless your out of full heals and can't mem out.

It was a fair attempt at making the cleric class more enjoyable to play, and a fine idea it was to make it the way it was made.. but as a circle higher, and utterly useless compared to full heal, I think it has ended up being a less-than-desirable addition to the game..

Now that I've explained my reasoning, I would like to suggest a few improvements that I think would make this spell a highly desirable thing to have.

First, the time it takes to recover only 50 more hp than a full heal is too long, i think healing 100 hp at a time every 5 seconds for 5 rounds of healing would be much more reasonable, and more functional. That would cut 15 seconds off the time it takes to heal, and actually do something to prevent death, because im sure many would agree, 50 hp recovery is easily outdone by one round of melee combat versus a single mob among the higher level mobs the players using the spell would likely be fighting.

Second, whether the spell is meant to be used as a combat spell, or a buffer spell, the time it takes to put up is way too long, as Shevarash has stated about the spell in the past he did not intend it to be used for buffering like vit or stone. As a higher circle spell i understand the thought of wanting it to take longer to cast than a similar spell of a lower circle, but taking into account that it doesnt do all of its healing instantly affects the usuability of it with long cast times and should have been considered more carefully before implementation.

My suggestion to this would be to drop it to *** cast time for successful quick chant so it will truely be superior to full heal but not fully overpowered as a clerical spell, as a higher circle spell should be...

Third, As the scroll of learning for this spell is at the end of a fairly difficult zone, that should have affected the spells implementation as well, and i dont think the method of obtaining it was accounted for when the spell was coded.. I suggest that the scroll be made rareload to help account for the changes and make it more rewarding to be able to get it
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Lorendel Ebonmist » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:02 am

how does it work with 2 clerics in group and a shaman?
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Inames » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:03 am

i dont see how adding more clerics is gonna fix the problem that healing aura is overpowered by full heal, yet its a higher circle and takes longer to cast

and shaman has nothing to do with cleric-only spells
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Lorendel Ebonmist » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:14 am

I meant how do these classes and their abilities complement one another in group?
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Inames » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:20 am

they dont, having a cleric doesnt increase the benefit of having a shaman, nor vice-versa... they each have their uses, and in no way benefit one another... the most you could use as an argument to this is shaman can take some of the vit load off of cleric.. as is, in many zones if you have a bard and a shaman cleric is utterly useless for healing and primarily does nothing but vitting
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Lorendel Ebonmist » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:26 am

that weird i thought the whole idea was having a bunch of different classes that had benefits for helping "the others" in the group...anyways 2 clerics each casting Healing Aura would have what effect? No benefit? Not Stacking? oh and though in gheals and ? Not sure I can see how they would have absolutely no benefit to one another or the group acting together.
I 'm rather stupid..perhaps you can explain it more clearly to me?
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Inames » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:59 am

your using the reasoning that a group is more functional with a rounded availability of skills and abilities so every class always benefits another, where your question was 'how do these 2 classes benefit each other'...

cleric and shaman dont "benefit" each other, they "benefit" the GROUP each in their own ways...

2 clerics casting healing aura would still be better off using full heal, because having 2 people casting an underpowered spell doesnt make it better than 2 people casting a better spell... having more of suck is still suck... healing aura doesnt stack, so you cant have 4 of them running on 1 person healing 200 hp every 4 seconds.. the only place healing aura is superior to full heal is when your casting it on a rogue thats running in to twink a dragon or some other such situation, because that rogue would be getting the full benefit of the spell and cast time wouldnt make a difference because its only 1 person likely not to be fighting anything at the time
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Thilindel » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:21 am

yeah, but seeing as you and several other clerics already have it makes it rather lame in the notion of it being rareload as you are seeking. I don't think the scroll should be at the end of the zone. Said zone crashes enough as it is. There are several relatively crash-happy zones in the mud. Tossing a scroll in the final fight sucketh mightily.
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby muxxissinix » Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:13 am

Didnt know you cant cast fullheal on a char who have healing aura affecting him.

I think healing aura give you an option to use another 8th circle spell with cleric, is that not enough ?
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Callarduran » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:08 am

My take on the spell has been that it is a niche spell, very useful in certain circumstances. Dragon fights have been mentioned. Lich fights it is useful for popping up a tank again that has it up when s/he's procced - the tic for the healing is faster than the casting time on any heal spell. Could be useful with things like barbazu bleed procs, etc. Keeping someone alive who's getting pummeled on a regular basis in a fight, to accent full heals on them as well.

What it boils down to is that it's an option, not as good as full heal in a lot of circumstances, but definitely has its uses. The higher level than full heal is for the change of effect - sure it could have been put into, say, 6th circle (curse, silence person), or 5th (stretching it, too powerful for 5th circle, but..do you really want to lose slots for vits?). 8th circle doesn't have a whole lot in it, unless you're REALLY counting on that full harm damage.
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Thilindel » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:12 am

some of what he said definitely has merit tho. I don't agree with making it rareload. But an 8th circle doing what it does currently isn't quite ideal. What'd be optimum to me is making it a contingency or controlled by person who had the spell cast upon them.

So make 'healing aura' turn into a !rent, transient, only one in inventory at one time. Make it where it can be recited, does its healing, then poof. Make it recite worthy during battle tho, since most scrolls ..hell, all? aren't read in battle :(
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Thilindel » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:13 am

Hey, I just made a spellcraft type notion woohoo. Probably something like that is already in WoW, which I've never played.
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Ragorn » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:58 pm

Disclaimer: I haven't played Toril in ten years. My opinion on game balance means nothing.

However, in theory, there are two useful types of heal over time (HoT) spells. The first is a low-yield, long-duration buff... say 5 hp/sec for ten minutes. This type of HoT isn't particularly useful in high-damage combat situations, because the hp yield isn't high enough to effectively keep a character alive through breath/area spells. However, the regeneration is helpful for keeping everyone topped off in situations where they take occasional damage (casters eating ripostes, people without prot fire in fire plane rooms, that sort of thing). It also provides SOME healing in combat, which is better than NO healing. I have no idea how useful this would be on Toril. On Duris, regen is a nice (but not essential) buff.

The other type of useful HoT is the one that is equivalent to full heal over a short amount of time... say 50 hp/sec for nine seconds. There are advantages and disadvantages to using an instant heal vs. a HoT, and they're relatively balanced against each other. It's probably even ok to let these heals stack with themselves... if Clerics overuse their HoTs, they'll pace themselves badly by wasting a lot of healing on healthy tanks (overhealing).

A heal that restores 12 hp/sec over 40 seconds falls right in the middle of these two options, and doesn't sound very useful to me. It's too weak to act as a viable in-combat healing spell, and it's too short-lived to be a practical adventuring buff.
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Botef » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:28 pm

Really now, clerics just got a grip of new spells and abilities and we are complaining about this?
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Thilindel » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:44 pm

Well..yeah. I don't play cleric cuz it's boring. D&D Clerics are 2nd to warriors for melee. Not here. The cooldown for 4th/9th scroll spells is too long. Here, clerics are heal bitches. Just a boring class imo.
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Shevarash » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:05 pm

I'm definitely open to updating this spell. It was a bit of a stab in the dark, as there isn't anything else similar to compare it to in the MUD. Boosting HP and lowering cast time a tad sounds reasonable. Can you elaborate on the issue of where the spell is located?
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Inames » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:55 am

Shevarash wrote:I'm definitely open to updating this spell. It was a bit of a stab in the dark, as there isn't anything else similar to compare it to in the MUD. Boosting HP and lowering cast time a tad sounds reasonable. Can you elaborate on the issue of where the spell is located?


if by where the spell is located you mean the zone, then theres not much to elaborate on, Seelie is fairly difficult and was a good choice of placement for the scroll in my oppinion.. i was just using the difficulty of obtaining the spell scroll as part of my argument for upgrading the spell

on another note, another possible idea for this spell would be to make it heal 150-200 hp on finishing casting and then start the heal over time effect, that way in using it your target wont die before any healing actually takes place

also while working with this spell i think it would be a good time to address the spam thats involved with it. the message showing every 4 seconds to everyone in the room is a bit much, making it show to just the person being affected by it and if possible to any clerics in the room would be nice, with more than 1(or even just 1) healing aura up at once the spam gets really annoying with everyone having to watch it
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Thilindel » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:40 am

My only gripe of where the scroll's located is that seelie crashes 'fairly' often when I tag along. Frustrating enough..
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Birile » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:56 pm

I have my thoughts on the spell but my main character is not a Cleric so I'll defer to the thoughts of true Clerics. That being said, can we focus on actually getting other new things into the game and fixing more important things rather than tweaking a spell that certainly didn't make Clerics' (or anyone's) lives more difficult as a result of its implementation? :)
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby fobble » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:04 pm

I question why this was even given to Clerics. Was this something needed for Clerics? What about Stasis Field, what purpose does Stasis Field serve? Yes, it is evilrace only since Illithid is only one that can use it.

Nevertheless, why tweak or even given such spellout in first place when an ability like this already exist.
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Shevarash » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:45 pm

It was an attempt to make clerics more interesting to play, and there are no other heal-over-time spells. Yes, there's always another class/skill/race/spell that needs fixing, but you have to start somewhere.
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby fobble » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:19 pm

Thanks for the answer Shev!
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Shevarash » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:19 pm

I've updated this spell in the following ways on test (not in the live MUD):

- Halved spell duration
- Doubled heal points
- Removed room healing message
- Reduced cast time to just under full heal.

So now, this spell will do 500hp over 5 rounds, cast faster, and display a lot less spam. Any thoughts on this before I push it into the live MUD?
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Thilindel » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:42 am

That definitely looks schweet now
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Inames » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:45 am

sounds great, thanks for taking the time to work with this a bit, hopefully it will be a good basis for future spells of similar nature
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Re: Healing Aura.. not worth it as is? (enter to discuss)

Postby Ragorn » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:13 pm

From a theorycrafting perspective, the new spell looks much better than the old.
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