Rangers

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Zukal
Sojourner
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:01 am

Rangers

Postby Zukal » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:25 pm

Been talking with a few other people and we have some ideas to improve the ranger class. Please don't bash rangers on this thread, if you don't like the ideas just point out why and we'll see if we can have another idea.

First: Melee combat, Ranger's are supposed to be masters of melee combat, but their 1h melee skills in everything but slashing caps at 90 max.

Second: Bash, bash is a nice ability, but it caps low and has heavy preference to a shield which rangers nearly never use. Rangers are a lot more stealthy than the basic warrior and having trip instead of bash would make perfect sense. Perhaps another option in this regard would be to reduce the need for a shield while bashing and also improve the cap on the bash skill for a ranger.

Third: Entering combat, Rangers enter combat with assist or afire, they don't get any bonus damage for these abilities, perhaps a sniperlike shot or a specific melee attack for opening combat would be warranted. I would say damage similar to a single backstab, not perhaps the same.

Fourth: In combat abilities, kick... is the worst in combat skill, give rangers something else to do, it's boring enough to afire/assist and then wait for combat to be over. Give rangers an improved damage ability or I may suggest a bleed-type damage ability, perhaps a way to create a terrible gash that causes additional damage every round of combat but you could only have 1 per ranger up on a single mob. Another idea for this is to make kick more reliable and do considerably more damage, but I like the idea of a bleed ability.

These are just my thoughts for improving the ranger class. More ideas would be welcome!
User avatar
Shevarash
FORGER CODER
Posts: 2943
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 6:01 am

Re: Rangers

Postby Shevarash » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:58 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I like the idea of giving them something else to enter combat with especially.
Shevarash -- Code Forger of TorilMUD
Botef
Sojourner
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri May 10, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Eastern Washington
Contact:

Re: Rangers

Postby Botef » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:39 pm

I always liked the Called Shots on EW for entering combat. Different called shots became available as you leveled up, and each shot had a different potential effect, i.e. head shot stunned, eye shot blinded, heart shot did triple damage, leg shot reduced mobs movement points, arm shot disarmed weapon, etc. The called shots took a bit longer to get off, kind of like casting a spell.
Adriorn Darkcloak
Sojourner
Posts: 1294
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:11 pm
Location: Miami, FL

Re: Rangers

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:54 pm

Zukal wrote:First: Melee combat, Ranger's are supposed to be masters of melee combat, but their 1h melee skills in everything but slashing caps at 90 max.


Specifically:

1h bludgeon (very good) (90)
1h slashing (master) (99)
1h piercing (very good) (85)
1h misc (very good) (80)

I didn't bother posting the 2h skills...

Zukal wrote:Second: Bash, bash is a nice ability, but it caps low and has heavy preference to a shield which rangers nearly never use. Rangers are a lot more stealthy than the basic warrior and having trip instead of bash would make perfect sense. Perhaps another option in this regard would be to reduce the need for a shield while bashing and also improve the cap on the bash skill for a ranger.


I like the idea of Warriors and Anti/Paladins having bash, as it relates to shield use or big 2-handed weapon use. I wouldn't go changing bash around...but, more later on that.

Zukal wrote:Third: Entering combat, Rangers enter combat with assist or afire, they don't get any bonus damage for these abilities, perhaps a sniperlike shot or a specific melee attack for opening combat would be warranted. I would say damage similar to a single backstab, not perhaps the same.


Very nice idea Zuk. Three suggestions:

surprise (average) (48) (can't practice)

#1 Utilize it.

#2 Give Rangers their damn racial hatred bonuses.

#3 Make 101 strength on humans actually give the damn +1 damage we should get. We get int bonus, wis bonus, cha bonus, dex bonus, agi bonus, con bonus at 101. And not just a "oh cool I can search better" bonus, but a real fucking bonus like memtime change, hps, etc. Same shit should apply to strength. Period.

Zukal wrote:Fourth: In combat abilities, kick... is the worst in combat skill, give rangers something else to do, it's boring enough to afire/assist and then wait for combat to be over. Give rangers an improved damage ability


Again, very well said. Wtf is the point of kick? It is completely useless. Either give it more damage, or make KICK be more like bash/trip. I don't like the idea of Rangers tripping their foes. It seems cowardly and Rogue-ish. Nor do I like bash either, as it seems too thug Warrior-ish. But what if kick were to be a good in-the-middle between bash and trip? The ability to damage an opponent but also a chance to send them to the ground. Having said that, remove kick from Warriors and Anti/Paladins. Headbutt/charge ftw.

Zukal wrote:or I may suggest a bleed-type damage ability, perhaps a way to create a terrible gash that causes additional damage every round of combat but you could only have 1 per ranger up on a single mob. Another idea for this is to make kick more reliable and do considerably more damage, but I like the idea of a bleed ability.


I don't like the idea of us making people bleed to death, might just be me. Seems to evil-ish for my tastes.


A couple of other points:

Rangers in ADND got followers at level 10 I think. Why not give Rangers ONE follower at level 50? A random mob like the shaman totem quest, and mob assists Rangers in combat, or is a good mount, or casts, or whatever. Up to you guys.

Why does it seem Rogues hit more often than Rangers do? I'm not talking extra attacks, I'm talking consistently hitting more than Rangers. I'm talking Rogues hitting 4-5 a round and I'm seeing me hitting 1-3 a round with both of us at 31 hitroll. I noticed whenever a bard was singing haste that I would still be getting 1-2 attacks on rounds when I had 42 hitroll (and the mobs weren't dragons). That too me just smells fishy.

Does 90 1h blud vs 99 1h pierce really matter that much? Or is it some internal THAC0 thingie between the classes?

Why does Ranger dodge max at 60 and Rogue dodge max at 99 (like tanks...)? I think Rogues SHOULD have a high dodge, even higher than a Ranger's, mind you. But 99? dunno...

Maybe the reasons behind Zukal's post, and the posts going way back, have also to do with Rogues and melee and not just Rangers. Just a thought...
Kral
Sojourner
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:26 pm

Re: Rangers

Postby Kral » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:13 pm

Another possible suggestion, could make archery better offense in general.

Give a little more damage or more shots per round based on skill.

The called shots is an interesting idea.

Racial bonus would be a very nice thing as long as it actually was worth it and not just a tiny bonus.

Hope to see some progress with this class and others (Pal/AP/Psi), be nice to see each class in game have a good use for zones.
ssar
Sojourner
Posts: 1446
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Contact:

Re: Rangers

Postby ssar » Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:42 pm

Rangers afire reporting "switches targets.." on repeated afire commands when there is just 1 mob in the room seems silly.

---

The Officer's Quarters
Exits: -S -W#
Damol (Barbarian) stands here.(Red Aura)
The first officer paces here, cursing angrily.(Red Aura)
Ewiril enters from the south.
Setherot enters from the south.
Anya enters from the south.
A zealous griffon flies in from the south.

< 865h/881H 145v/147V P: std >
Damol looks at the first officer.

< 866h/881H 145v/147V P: std >
Damol group-says 'target = officer'

< 866h/881H 145v/147V P: std >
st
ass anya
Anya climbs on and rides a zealous griffon.

< 866h/881H 145v/147V P: std >
Anya's mount charges the first officer and knocks him off balance!
The first officer is stunned!
As a zealous griffon charges into the first officer, her talons sink
into her prey's body. As the claws dig into the first officer,
a zealous griffon emits a shrill and primal shriek!

< 866h/881H 145v/147V P: std >
Ewiril leaves south.

< 866h/881H 145v/147V P: std > You are already standing.
Damol assists Anya heroically.
Damol barely wounds the first officer with his strong slash.

< 866h/881H 146v/147V P: std > You assist Anya heroically.
You miss the first officer with your bludgeon.

< 866h/881H 146v/147V T: Anya TC: excellent E: first EC: few scratches P: std >

< 866h/881H 146v/147V T: Anya TC: excellent E: first EC: few scratches P: std >
The first officer's senses seem to clear again!

< 866h/881H 146v/147V T: Anya TC: excellent E: first EC: few scratches P: std >
Setherot takes aim and begins frantically firing his rune-covered fiery warbow of hellish fury!
Setherot fires an elven flight arrow at the first officer 4 times with 3 hits doing little damage!

< 867h/881H 146v/147V T: Anya TC: excellent E: first EC: few scratches P: std >
Setherot fires an elven flight arrow at the first officer 4 times with 3 hits doing little damage!
You score a CRITICAL HIT!
You attack the first officer, landing a single hit.
Damol attacks the first officer, landing two hits.

< 867h/881H 146v/147V T: Anya TC: excellent E: first EC: few scratches P: std >
A zealous griffon growls at the first officer.

< 867h/881H 147v/147V T: Anya TC: excellent E: first EC: few scratches P: std >
Setherot fires an elven flight arrow at the first officer 4 times with 3 hits doing little damage!
Damol attacks the first officer, landing three hits.
Anya attacks the first officer, landing a single hit.

< 868h/881H 147v/147V T: Anya TC: excellent E: first EC: few scratches P: std >
Setherot switches targets..

< 868h/881H 147v/147V T: Anya TC: excellent E: first EC: few scratches P: std >

---

Apparently it's due to some recent-ish tweaks to afire to incorporate switch into it instead of manually trying to target a 2nd mob and then afiring again or something.

Perhaps it should say something else when the ranger does not actually switch targets?
Kindi
Sojourner
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:42 am

Re: Rangers

Postby Kindi » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:01 am

make a better assist bot
Gormal
Sojourner
Posts: 3914
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:01 am
Location: A Whale's Vagina
Contact:

Re: Rangers

Postby Gormal » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:46 pm

Rangers are the most boring class in a game where the owner is a ranger god. afire and forget (that you're even playing) is not engaging, challenging, or even remotely fun.

- Make all offensive spells instant cast for use between rounds and reduce pray times substantially. Buff call lightning damage as well.
- This isn't really feasible until the powers framework goes in, but give rangers 3 special shots while using a bow. One that does pure damage, one that blinds and/or slows, and one that hits multiple targets. Maybe make it like bash where the cooldown is longer than the lag.
- Springleap over bash
- Improve Kick damage, add chance to stun/knockdown like a weaker headbutt. A cool DoT/Bleed ability could be neat if rangers had to make sure and keep it up to max their damage.


Edit: I tried to think up easy fixes/changes that don't involve completely revamping the class.
jadelicosner89
Sojourner
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:08 am

Re: Rangers

Postby jadelicosner89 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:10 am

thanks for the information.. hope we would greatly appreciate the rangers after your effort..
Gormal
Sojourner
Posts: 3914
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:01 am
Location: A Whale's Vagina
Contact:

Re: Rangers

Postby Gormal » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:58 pm

Its nice to be appreciated at least.

Return to “T2 Gameplay Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests