Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
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Re: Direction

Postby Gormal » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:03 am

Make Silverymoon the hometown for new players since it blows Scardale away. If that doesn't work for evil races then that's fine but SM is what you want. Casters need dramatic cast/mem time reductions at lower levels and all classes need a way to heal (first aid or food) while out of combat. Ensure that low level spells are actually worth casting vs comparable level mobs' hp (cleric damage is the worst and makes it unplayable without hitter gear).

These are just easy newbie fixes.
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Re: Direction

Postby Dalar » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:47 pm

Been saying this since Homeland
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Re: Direction

Postby Desirsar » Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:32 am

How many people actually played long enough ago to have experienced a wipe? It's not the equipment that is the problem, it's the levels. The equipment serves to exacerbate this problem by trivializing the lower levels, sure. Do you know what happens after pwipes? You get one or two mavericks who spend 20 hours a day logged in trying to be the first to solo to 50 (only to be stuck doing nothing until everyone catches up to them to group), and everyone else goes out in groups doing zones that mostly sit untouched for months at a time in the current state of the game, leveling, doing epic battles, and slowly gearing up everyone. (Maybe the epic battles was just me - I'd lead groups of 10 or more players despite one handful of whiners saying the XP got split too many ways, and another handful of whiners saying the areas we were trying were too hard for the levels of our groups. A dozen characters 12-18 can go kill sand giants, even when using crap gear, and it actually benefits everyone.)

On top of this, it helps new player retention, because they find someone to actually group with and play the game with, rather than someone who will stand around and power level them and hand them gear that trivializes anything they may be able to go explore and solo (or small group), but there's a sharp cutoff between what becomes too easy with twink gear and what is impossible, where using gear your level makes it a smoother slope.

1) Removing the last 10 years of "anti-twink" junk that has been put in. One example: Citadel used to be fun to do in your 30s.....then people started small grouping/twinking and now we have level 53 blocking caster elementals.....which completely destroys it for new players learning the game and IN their 30s, where the zone was designed for. Also, IF you ever pwipe anyone ever going to enjoy 16 hour Vault runs because the remos swallow half the group before you get 1 to small wounds? I doubt it and it brings up point 2...


example: I had 1 friend start a cleric about 3 years ago. I gave him a crypt mace, a few other decent items, and leveled with him to 18 with his gf, Jess, and I in a group. He's raided the top end on WoW, so he has no trouble learning a game and will grind up in levels/fights. He logged on alone and went to bgr to fool around the day after. He said he spent 3 hours solo killing.....1 mob per 10 minutes to heal back up, get spells, and repeat. That was the last I got him to log on because it was so slow and so much recovery time he said it felt worse than sitting there programming. You should be blowing up mobs when you start with gear at that level, then need to really "group" about level 35 or so.

The zone list is definitely off, and it should be updated to include reasonable soloability. On top of that, it needs to include at least one relative direction (north of Scornubel, east of Calimport, under Waterdeep) if it's not a location that can be easily found in common maps of Faerun. Sounds like the problem is the friend was going to zones too powerful, instead of using the twink gear to decimate things appropriate to his level. (That whole sharp cutoff thing I mention above.)

Grouping should start around level 5, 10 at the latest. If it isn't, code changes to encourage it. I don't know what changes, but find something.

I also agree that a pwipe is necessary. I think it's a matter of perspective. Someone who plays regularly might object to losing their 10 alts and accumulated wealth. On the other hand, a lot of people left the game... because it has gotten to the point that there is so much wealth and alts in the game that it has gotten stagnant.

Precisely why I keep coming back and keep leaving. Even if I make an alt or give back all the gear on the character I tried to actively play (or don't give it back, even), I can't find anyone to actually group with. Not someone 20 levels higher than me "lazy tanking", actually actively grouping and exploring zones we haven't seen, even if we don't know before going there that they have any great equipment or coin dropping monsters.

3 - the RPQ sphere has been holding events every weekend for at least the last month, maybe longer. From what i hear they're doing a good job of keeping people engaged with their campaigns.

Level 50, or level 10? If someone completely new to the game rolls a level 1 character now, can they safely and effectively join in, or are they just a month too late and a new player we aren't going to retain?

I wanted to chime in on one thing in particular, having been part of several successful games in the past as a coordinator type and an admin type. A pwipe would not be the worst thing that ever happened to Toril. In fact, if it was done right and marketed correctly for a period of time before and after it happened, it could be very beneficial. Something like the following might work:

Done right and marketed correctly? You mean how, after pwiping in, say, two weeks, advertise in advance that the next one will be in precisely two years and one day? (To give an oddly uneven number. :) )

also, ive said it before, i really dislike scaredale
you segregate the newbies, most are not even aware theyre not in the mud proper
if i would have started in scaredale when i started playing i dont think i would have stuck around
its not a bad idea, its just poorly executed imo

Never understood why EACH starting town couldn't be as effective for new characters AND actually have people around. One minor fix, though - characters who are not outcast from EVERYWHERE ELSE should be "outcast" from VT... and then remove the grouping restrictions. If they can find each other to organize, let them group! (And if everyone starts hanging around somewhere like One-Eyed Orc, start making some races aggro at each.)

4. The character..the actual unique individuals..when you had one char that people might know..come to recognise... rather than... can you bring either the damage, the healing, the tank or maybe the ranger... We actually had to try and think of ways to deal with just what we had.

Thank the gods, someone who remembers what actually playing the game was like.

5. As much as this is an eq-based many ways it is the eq which had contributed to it's downfall. As wonderful as the toys have continued to be... the escalation and and increased utility of item after item en masse has belittled the amazing efforts of zonemakers over the years. With each new wave of items, another zone died. I'm sorry to put this in such bleak terms..but this is how i see it. At least when we had those wipes...and the downtime... we came back hungrier than ever...and we even knew some of the shortcuts and tricks to regain those heights..... god i wanted troll-hide sleeves for the longest time when we first came back up...

You know, I hate to say it, but Aradune did something right in this line of thinking - good equipment should be rare, and should rarely drop even when its usual holder spawns. RP it that the fight was too intense and the gear broke, or something.

the eq is the problem botef. everyone has it and if say amazingly some new guys shows up and levels to 50 he won't be grouped because he has inferior eq.. good luck leveling and playing a tank or rogue for that matter with crap eq. and stfu with your it's the skill not the player.. if that was the case. pls throw away all yer red dragon fanged/khanj daggers and play with straight back dirk's or something heh. everyone has all the eq. the challenge is gone. the new guy is completely forgotten if there actually are any..

Nothing I can say to that, quoted just to be quoted. :)

MMO industry aside, you can't deny that the major decline in the playerbase started AFTER PWIPES STOPPED. The insect trapped inside the house can only fly into the window looking out so many times before it starves and dies, so open the damn window!
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Re: Direction

Postby Jhorr » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:20 am

Desirsar wrote:MMO industry aside, you can't deny that the major decline in the playerbase started AFTER PWIPES STOPPED. The insect trapped inside the house can only fly into the window looking out so many times before it starves and dies, so open the damn window!

Actually, the last time we pwiped, the result was fewer players. Some of the other older players may remember exactly but my recollection is that we had about 100 players or so, and after we pwiped we settled out with about 50. I believe that was about the time that Everquest came out and then we lost more people (and then gained some back) to WOW.

I think any ad campaign has to highlight how the more popular graphic MMORPGs are based on our (free!) MUD.
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Re: Direction

Postby Corth » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:16 am

You had around 150 or so players on in the evenings after the last pwipe. After a few months that number started to slowly dwindle. As far as I can tell, over the past year or two it's kind of leveled off to a much smaller number.

I kind of agree and disagree with Jhorr concerning an ad campaign for the mud. I think it's marketable that Aradune played our mud and was in some way inspired by it when he produced Everquest. On the other hand, Everquest at this point is kind of old hat, no? And besides, advertising this mud never seemed to work very well. I think people usually start playing a mud because of word of mouth. They're friends are playing it so they start playing it. And face it, there hasn't been much of a buzz about Toril for a very long time.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
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Re: Direction

Postby kwirl » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:13 am

for the record, a pwipe would bring me back (not that i matter), i'm starting to get tired of my current stable of games (Need for Speed Hot Pursuit, Burnout Paradise, Sims 3, League of Legends, Entropia, Perfect World, Borderlands, Fallout New Vegas, Fallout 3, Oblivion, Dragon Age Origins, Team Fortress 2, CoD World at War, CoD Modern Warfare 2, CoD Black Ops, Battlefield 2, Battlefield 2142, Battlefield Bad Company 2, Left for Dead 2, Medal of Honor, and Dead Space 2 are currently installed on my work laptop) - and I really wish my zmud license extended to cmud, but oh well

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