Direction

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Dugmaren
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Re: Direction

Postby Dugmaren » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:17 am

Pwipe - ok I pretty sure that although under certain circumstances this might be a great idea, we're not there right now.

God Favoritism doesn't mean the God's buddies, it means people who are going to cause some trouble or otherwise do something with the gift.

Just because Tiamat takes 20-30 people a couple hours and a bunch of corpses does NOT mean it's valid that it breaks all rules of equipment balance. Which it does don't kid yourself. There is NOTHING out there that touches it, and if we start putting competition in other zones then balance is snafu'd completely. However I agree with the thought that some of it just makes playing more fun. The spell re-mem is great if over powered.. so if there was a downgrade, I'd probably leave most procs in but maybe push the direction of +offense -defense.. ie remove the crazy ac or what not. But it brings up a question -

How does everyone feel about NON-class abilities on equipment. Personally I hate it, buuut just because I can do something about it doesn't mean your opinions aren't as important as mine - so.. lets hear thoughts.

Great idea on group-spells for spellups.

Artifacts would definitely involve something abnormal - first completion of a zone / rpq quest etc. Feeding them seems like a pretty reasonable idea.

Good idea on "Politics" forum. Maybe "Politics & Religion" or something? :P

Lilithelle is definitely going to be deleted and forced to play a dwarf.

Equipment degrading / maintenance does not mean you'd have to re-quest. Ok maybe if you let it completely disintegrate but.. man if you go to all the work of completing a huge quest then let it degrade because you're not paying any attention over repeated use? You're DUMB... flippin repair it already. It's an idea for a plat sink, which wouldn't even be a time sink if the "repairs" were available in VT and major cities.. or even via spell + component etc. And i'd think it would be degrade on USE, not just from sitting in the inn.

Agree on XP / Trophy upgrades to make people check out more areas and maybe decrease the difficulty in level. Though personally I'd rather decrease the NEED to level.. so level 40's were almost as viable as level 50's etc. Zone groups should never need to be 48+.. flippin ridiculous.

Good idea for newbie quests asking for help rather then waiting to be asked.

Which brings me to a gripe. There are LOTS of zones that can be small grouped or done low level.. some are designed as such, some are just old and we have better equipment and skills now. These zones give out middle level gear that focuses on middle level requirements - ie AC etc. Hell scardale has an invasion you can do. Honestly what I'm really reading in all of those comments is that you haven't looked around for anything new in the last 5 years and don't know about all the cool stuff you COULD do at level 25. If I'm wrong and you have specific examples of areas that aren't worth it or can only name 2 places to go from level X -> X+5.. please correct me because I agree with you 110% on that idea.

Dug
Malia
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Re: Direction

Postby Malia » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:27 am

I personal like non-classed spells, gives those classes options.

A druid with a blur proc is unique and opens up more possibilities.

A mage with sleeves that proc full heal is fun, its unique and can save the day in a pinch.

Putting a same class proc on an item, just seems silly. like having a druid with an armor that procs bark. They can cast bark woopie... so it procs. Put a bark proc on some mage armor and now thats useful.

just my opinion, i like the possibilites of strategizing with new options.
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Re: Direction

Postby Roklam » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 am

Pwipe - I will concede that if we'll lose 10 people with a pwipe, then yeah, right now, that's a bad thing. It's rather sad in my opinion, but hey, that's just my opinion. I just hate it when someone throws out the "if you pwipe I won't come back" comment. Irks me.

I read all these suggestions though and I gotta say I don't think most of this stuff is in the right direction.

I started in 95. 150+ pbase. Great game, was awesome. Now we're down to 30 people that play regularly? 40 on a good day? Seems to me the number one concern should be to find the answer to the question "how do we get more players, and keep them?" Everything else should be secondary. Otherwise RL and other games will continue to eat away at this one. And eventually it won't matter about pwipes anyway!

When I use wow examples, I know this game is not wow. But I've been playing video games for 20 years and I can tell you what interests me, my friends, and their friends. I'm not saying make this into txtWOW(tm). I'm saying lets look at what makes games like that successful and try and pull in some ideas. Trying to think outside the Toril Box for a change. And I say this because I've always had a soft spot in my heart for this game and have wanted to see it be great. That's why I keep coming back.

My point is this, focus on getting new players in here. Get em hooked. Worry about the high stuff later. If the gods focus on fixing high level stuff now, we're gonna have the same problem snagging new players that we've been having for a while. And the mud will continue to dwindle.
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Re: Direction

Postby Gagrag » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:57 am

I'll be honest. I haven't seen new xp zones or lower level stuff. I think that Lil made a good point... if you run around with brief off, sometimes you have no idea that you're moving into a zone and there's no standard object in the room that says "hey, little dude, don't go in there... that crap will kill you without even thinking twice". Here's where I'd start with it... thinking from base level up.

1) I like the idea of being approached. The quest interaction system isn't the easiest to get a handle on. I can understand that for epic quests it should really test you... but scardale quests, not so much. The interaction should be simpler. Maybe stuff like "Would you like to help me? Just ask me yes or no." and prompt the player for a response. Then if the answer is yes, something like "Great! I knew I could count on you! Go gather a few more adventurers and I'll meet you outside the gates." etc etc... I know it sounds campy and shit, but at least it's somewhat directive.

2) Mark the higher level zones. Different color gradients of marker objects or something like that. Or even restricting zones to specific level ranges. I.e. - it kinda defeats the purpose of having AQV if it can be run by 50's, bring someone lower than the level restriction in just to search the stuff out, then bail. Izans has a minimum level restriction and Cemetary has a maximum level restriction. This could discourage higher level characters from swooping in and slaughtering the zone, saving it for the newer players. If a new player came across a lvl 50 zone, they either wouldn't be able to get in (eliminating the need for begging for CR's on gcc) or there would be a fair warning that if they continue, they're gonna get waxed.

I'd disagree that exp is a bad thing and should be shortened. The quests for exp are awesome and completely viable for players that know their stuff and can find their asses with two hands and a map. On the other hand, when it comes to power leveling, if you don't understand the class and just BLAM now I have a lvl 50 and I'm gonna go zone, wait... how do I look at all of the adjacent rooms around me. You'll end up getting some people who severely disrupt the harmony of highly skilled groups and become a burden, ultimately ending in people who are pissed at the newbs and newbs who think that all higher level ppl are jerks because they yelled at them. We already have plenty of people that are 50 and don't know/play their classes well. Their characters (exp wise) are at end game, but as players themselves, they're still level 26. I'd like to see some "practice" zones designated to grow the player (not just the character).

If I had the time, I'd work on the things that I've mentioned as far as developing zone ideas for implementation and start building some progression to the game. The grind to 50 then zone, maybe, if someone's taken enough pity on you and has given you gear that they don't want...sucks.

Anyways, those are my thoughts.
grundar
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Re: Direction

Postby grundar » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:58 am

a practice zone? it's a great idea, except people dont care to learn or read. the newbie guides have been around for ages, some are very accurate to this day yet ask any of those lvl 50 people who are 26 in reality if they've ever read it.
a great example of this is this: some time ago someone said enchanters should have pets, when charm person spell was pointed out to them it became blatantly obvious that the person does not even bother to read the help files associated with their spells.
sadly this is an epidemic these days.

also, unless that practice zone is placed 1n of the sm inn i guarantee that they wont be able to find it. there's so many people that cant even walk from waterdeep to calimport; its sad.
Naled
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Re: Direction

Postby Naled » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:00 am

I guess you could solve the newbie problem with a sort of xp campaign. A number of small zones that you can do either with a small group, or with pets if you aren't able to find anyone. Each campaign zone gives you a token that levels you. Set it up so people learn their class, learn the most important things of the game, and learn to nagivate around toril. Someone would have to write a bunch of small zones, can even perhaps convert some existing ones.

It would provide a natural, non-boring, path for a newbie, it removes the grinds, and can actually be even fun for us old timers.
dem
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Re: Direction

Postby dem » Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:49 pm

You can also make quests that awards exp for new players if they move from one place to another. example: Go visit my fellow warrior instructor in Waterdeep. Newbie runs from point a to waterdeep warrior guild and gets rewarded one level of exp. Then the instructor there tells him to run to SM and newbie does that and is rewarded another. Experience doesnt have to include killing.
Corth
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Re: Direction

Postby Corth » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:12 pm

As for pwipe - you lose some people but you also gain some.

The low end game - you need to force people who are leveling an alt to play it with the same advantages or disadvantages as a newbie. This means level minimums on eq and some way to prevent power leveling. The point being to create people for true noobs to group with. The game hasn't changed substantially in more than 15 years. If anything, it's a lot easier to level up a character now from scratch. The reason we can't keep true noobs is that there isn't anyone for them to play with. It's a social game. Nobody actually levels up from nothing on their own.

Honestly - I would do something a little drastic. Start everyone at level 50. That way if you are lacking an invoker in your group or something you just have the noob come around and tell him what to do. He'll learn fast. The experience part of the game is bullshit anyway. Nobody gets anything out of it. It isn't fun. It's basically unnecessary. You can find other ways to distinguish more experienced level 50 invokers from noob level 50 invokers. Epic spell and skill quests, etc.
dekat
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Re: Direction

Postby dekat » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:20 pm

On a completely different note, Would like to see, thrown weapons, trap, languages enabled/reimplemented
Malia
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Re: Direction

Postby Malia » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:20 pm

I will agree that we need to get new players and KEEP new and current players. Making the front end a little easier since no one is lvl 1 anymore or at least when you roll an alt your not lvl 1 for long. Maybe make some really fun eq to get at lvl 1-20 that really hooks people.

Fang dagger from drulak was always fun, crapy as hell dice and stuff but proc is what made it fun. Spify ansi up on newew eq so its not all ugly yellow too maybe. So when they type eq they can see ugly yellow on starter stuff but they are starting to look better as they pick up pieces. Scardale is really easy for people that know how to play. I dunno how easy it is for people who dont know how to play. I think seeing people and interacting would be better... I think connect it to main mud and make VT or SM entrance points for new players. At least they get some interaction then with actual pbase.
Naled
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Re: Direction

Postby Naled » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:39 pm

Personally i think scardale soon becomes the same grinds as all eq. It gets worse for a newbie when there is some decked oldie running around killing everything in sight. Then it's kill...wait...wait more...kill...repeat. Also it's damn hard getting those kills with newbie eq. It's hardly easy to figure out the quests if you're al real newbie. The learning curve seems rather steep, and might be disheartening for a lot of people. I'd say the first 10 levels should be realy easy to get. I almost agree with Corth that levelling has become rather pointless. It's more or less a timesink before you can get to the real game, with other players. I think the challenge is to make the time to get there as fun as possible, and enough to learn the game. And as short as possible. We don't really need level 23 players, we need level 50 players who at least can function in a group.
Dalar
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Re: Direction

Postby Dalar » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:42 pm

Downgrade circlets so it's only 1-2 spells/attacks. 5 is overboard.

As for gear, I'm not saying 0 durability = destroyed. Just make it unusable until repaired.
dem
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Re: Direction

Postby dem » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:07 am

I strongly disagree against downgrading topend eq like tia gear if its not done to make room for new and better stuff. We wanna feel special and collect incredible eq that makes us powerful. Maybe newbies needs more help then we think. lvl 1-10 could be achieved through quests that teaches u basic stuff like asking mobs things for quests, searching out hidden items, pushing rocks etc.

/Koxa
Kindi
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Re: Direction

Postby Kindi » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:35 pm

Dalar wrote:Relook at each zone. Target the zones for 1.5 hour maximum.

this.

also everything Inama said.
flib
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Re: Direction

Postby flib » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:10 pm

game get's stale. no pwipes means staleness.. it's unavoidable.
Yayaril
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Re: Direction

Postby Yayaril » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:21 am

Remove the stat cap and max_stat equipment. This will open up a lot of equipment options. Rebalance all stat equipment to be more median instead of having gear with +22 to a stat.

Remove the power stat and let psions use intelligence for their powers.

Let every race play as every class.

Get rid of alignment and alignment based restrictions on equipment.

Remove class restrictions on equipment and just make it less effective if you lack the proficiency (the mage can wield a greatsword, but won't gain full benefit from it)

Re-align all race stats so that every race has the same scale but some races have bonuses and negatives. Thus, a 100 strength gnome is as strong as a 100 strength ogre. This is a magical world where a gnome can use magic to become as strong as an ogre, or even a giant.

Get rid of the endurance stat. It's pretty annoying. Who cares if someone just spams their way across the world.

Get rid of rolling stats for new and older characters: give them the point buy option and if they want, they can 'reset' their character and change it around if they don't like it. This will get rid of hours of rolling for 'perfect' stats, you'll have to actually make a decision and have options to decide.

Give character growth more options by adding feats and feat trees with interest abiilties. Again, give the players the ability to 'reset' these if they don't like them.

Increase the duration of buffs and make them more subtle.

Get rid of auto attacks and everyone can just use attacking abilities during combat. Add a bunch of new attack powers to each class that can be used repeatedly and others that have cool downs.

Show the numbers for damage. It doesn't destroy the suspension of disbelief, or else I wouldn't play Dungeons and Dragons. It's also more rewarding to know if what you're doing to shape your character effects their ability to do their job.

-Yayaril
Malia
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Re: Direction

Postby Malia » Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:53 am

Might want to look at anon too. We want to promote a pbase, but loggin in and seeing 21 players with only 15 vis doesnt promote pbase. Anon players should be seen on who list, hide the lvl/class but at least show the player so we can look like a better pbase.
Disoputlip
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Re: Direction

Postby Disoputlip » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:54 pm

I am unsure about how much this will bring players back, but I agree a lot with making restat part of the game.

The most obvious thing would be to implement the train and untrain commands with your guildmaster.
relod
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Re: Direction

Postby relod » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:18 pm

Dugmaren wrote:how do you propose making zones 1.5h's long? I think SOME zones should be longer, but agree that I have the most fun in the shorter ones.. remember doing 3-4 zones in a row? Good times.


Actually there might be an easy way of having huge epic zones of 4 to 5 hours in length by splitting them up using some sort of marker system. For example a zone could be broken up into several sub-zones and when a group completes a sub-zone a "save stone" appears. The leader of the group can activate the save stone and all the group members have some sort of inventory item created that allows them to be teleported to the save stone at a later time. Obviously the item will decay within a week or two. You could always hard code save IDs to each character and skip the inventory item (probably sounds like a better implementation).

This will encourage groups to actually kill all the "bosses" in each sub-zone to gain access to the save points and create a natural progression within the zone. Of course you can allow access to the whole zone from the outset and those groups that just want to kill a specific boss can do so by circumventing around challenges.

Also when a save stone is activated it will disable trash respawn in that sub-zone until the zone reset.

I just realized that every zone would have to be teleported into and have some sort of instance ID associated with it. I'm not sure if this is even possible.

Just some thoughts. :)
dem
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Re: Direction

Postby dem » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:25 pm

Easiest way is just to make the zone !pop and use keys that breaks on use.
flib
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Re: Direction

Postby flib » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:07 pm

All these ideas serve a great purpose.. but if you're just pasting them onto a game that's already completely inflated with eq it just won't add up to that much.

pwipe is the only real answer if you're looking for a way to fix issues with eq inflation.. it wipes it. It makes stuff from jot actually useful again.. it makes stuff from all the lowbie zones actually useful again. I honestly don't get why people are so anti to the idea of a fresh start. It's been like 10 years :P

Until then, I'll be on my merry way playing another mud that actually wipes every other year.
Dalar
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Re: Direction

Postby Dalar » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:46 pm

Find an alternative to pwipe. Make gear rot after X months and somewhat easier to get (such as up rare rates, move away from rare gear = best gear).
Make more epic weapons for each class. Currently we have seelie staves for all casters, khanjaris, pril gay dagger.
Botef
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Re: Direction

Postby Botef » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:40 pm

The problem I see with pwipe and eq sinks like these is that it contributes to the 'treading water' feeling we already have, doing the same things we've done a million times over again not really progressing towards anything new and unseen.

As others have said there is nothing preventing me from enjoying old zones, or leveling an alt without decking him out in your best loot, or doing a zone the old fashioned way. I'm personally more interested in new fights and new challenges, new quests that let me revisit or remind me of old quests along the way. Pwiping, while putting everyone on even ground, would just be more of the same linear progression we have now. Same zones, same eq combos, same grinding...but longer. Why force the pbase in this direction without something 'new' for them along the way? There are better ways to go about making old content useful again.

We need new forms of progression and achievements that are independent of EQ acquisition...Things that require playing your class and playing it well. Prestige classes, epic spells, epic skills, etc. Something new to progress towards.
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Re: Direction

Postby flib » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:28 pm

the eq is the problem botef. everyone has it and if say amazingly some new guys shows up and levels to 50 he won't be grouped because he has inferior eq.. good luck leveling and playing a tank or rogue for that matter with crap eq. and stfu with your it's the skill not the player.. if that was the case. pls throw away all yer red dragon fanged/khanj daggers and play with straight back dirk's or something heh. everyone has all the eq. the challenge is gone. the new guy is completely forgotten if there actually are any..
Malia
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Re: Direction

Postby Malia » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:52 am

Wow...

1) Botef doesnt have red fanged dagger and i dont think he even has 2 khanjari, he might have 1.

2) it is the skill of the player not the eq they use. Eq helps sure but there are several players that had all the eq in world and still cant play their way out of a paper bag.

3) Botef is right, people need goals and something to work at, starts off being equipment goals, then leads to other things some people have leading goals, others have rpq goals, but we do need some new form of progression apply prestige or more zones like Rainbow Curtain that are really skill based zones.

something that might be fun, is more morph quests at 50 like necro to lich. Rogue splits to either assassin or thief. Cleric might morph to battle cleric or priest.
flib
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Re: Direction

Postby flib » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:22 am

speccing you mean. ya that'd be tight. agreed. it shouldnt be insanely hard though.. and it shouldnt take in game items to do it.. like lich takes dagger? or something.. i forget.. been awhile. it should either just be auto once hitting a certain level or a simple quest just to introduce you to the new class specialization.. but those would all have to be written up and that'd be a ton of work. it could be interesting and fun though. but if it's just your average hand in 10 awesome things to get 1 awesome result then shrug.. mud's been there/done that. I think at least heh.

But I wasn't implying botef had said things just used it in a general sense.. because freaking alot of people have khanj's on loan or quested.
Malia
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Re: Direction

Postby Malia » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:04 pm

If someone spends the time to do speicializing like necro to lich. I think the quest should be on par with doing lich quest. Possibly have multiple options in some classes too.

Cleric might be come either a Battle cleric OR a Priest. Quests for both and it would give varriety too. So you could play straight cleric, or priest or battle cleric. so instead of just 1 class option you get 3 diffrent kits to play cleric as.
Dugmaren
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Re: Direction

Postby Dugmaren » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:28 pm

Remember that in general people were calling for sorcerers being better then invokers & enchanters. So if there's an option to remort / spec. how can it be done such that we don't end up with the same issue? In fact, what IS the issue that we're trying to avoid.

ps - work has been super hectic for me and haven't had time to do more then read this thread. sorries
Dug
Vhaeraun
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Re: Direction

Postby Vhaeraun » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:10 am

Hi everyone..

Been ages since I was around, and I doubt I'll be back here doing anything anytime soon. Way too busy with work & real-life. Back 2-3 years ago when I was active last, I had a few stuff "semi-finished" that could help with some of this.

There's the "tower of kenjin"?, can't remember the name of it, but we had it at Homeland. I'm not sure if it was ever put to live, but it was finished in my code repository and on the testmud before I went awol. Its tweaked to be a bit challenging.

Also, there was code in progress for other ways of experience, like "exploration experience" and "adventures", which were basically supposed to be quests you could only do once. Not 100% sure if its in the core-codebase or if it was just in my repositiory.

For "low-mid level", spreading of fun, I'd recommend three things.

a) Make all high-level gear 'soulbound', only usable by the character binding it.
This makes so that when experienced people play alts, they have to do lowlevel quests, move around, gear up, cooperate with newbies.

b) Rebalance a bunch of zones on prime plane to be 20-25, 25-30 etc, and balanced for 3-5 people.
Spreads traffic around the world, and makes sure more gets visited. This may need to just reduce the levels of mobs and quality a bit of the gear, but in the end, its worth it.

c) Give "endbosses" for midlevel zones grant more experience.
And only if a small group, and so on.. Makes a great incentive for going out to do.. lets say "Lizard Marsh" as a level 30-35 zone, if you get 1/2 extra level from killing the lich there if you are <35.

feh, ran out of time at lunch.. good luck old friends etc..

- Vhaeraun, the true master of the drow!
Dalar
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Re: Direction

Postby Dalar » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:35 pm

The whole exp thing can easily be done with exp tokens and gates to prevent players of higher level to go in.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
loshaenar
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Re: Direction

Postby loshaenar » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:00 am

I thought i would throw my 2c in here, as toril has been a part of my life for such a long time. I love it still, but in it's present form and my lifestyle, there is very little middle ground. So i'll make a few points:

1. The australians who play this game..still.. currently have essentially very little reason to do so during our evenings. We all have so many alts at high levels (like most of those who remain), a vast cache of eq and not enough people logging on to do much with. There is no reason to exp when you have a level 50 of almost every class available.


2. I can't devote more than an hour or 2 at any given time, if i was inclined to do so... and this is especially the case on weekends during the day when those who remain would zone.

3. I never minded doing exp when there was a reason to do it, something to strive towards. Do you remember how we all strove once upon a time to attain the giddy heights of the 40's.... that first scale, the epicness of fembod battle, the first deathknell to enter the game... those insane jotvasion CRs (old vers... screw the new one..) . Those clicky exp trains we all used to bitch about after the event...but which were such great fun if you managed to get in on it...

4. The character..the actual unique individuals..when you had one char that people might know..come to recognise... rather than... can you bring either the damage, the healing, the tank or maybe the ranger... We actually had to try and think of ways to deal with just what we had.

5. As much as this is an eq-based mud...in many ways it is the eq which had contributed to it's downfall. As wonderful as the toys have continued to be... the escalation and and increased utility of item after item en masse has belittled the amazing efforts of zonemakers over the years. With each new wave of items, another zone died. I'm sorry to put this in such bleak terms..but this is how i see it. At least when we had those wipes...and the downtime... we came back hungrier than ever...and we even knew some of the shortcuts and tricks to regain those heights..... god i wanted troll-hide sleeves for the longest time when we first came back up...


I think it's fairly obvious where i am going with this.... Shev, you have asserted that now is not that time. I hear you, but apart from popping in to say hi now and again, i have nothing I can bring to the toril table until it is. I can't wait for that day to come and being able to be a part of this world again.

Lachlan (AKA alvathair, taishanos and a whole crapload of others...)






5.
kiryan 2.0
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Re: Direction

Postby kiryan 2.0 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:19 pm

This thread is funny because none of this shit happened.
Dugmaren
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Re: Direction

Postby Dugmaren » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:58 am

Yet.
Kindi
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Re: Direction

Postby Kindi » Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:58 pm

a lot of the stuff from the last thread like this got implemented

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11286
muxxissinix
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Re: Direction

Postby muxxissinix » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:04 am

Nice thread, lots of interesting things.

I'd have to agree with Disoputlip about the homepage, the major issue of Torilmud is not the equip or zones or if 2.0 is in or not, right now the problem is the really low pbase we actually have, you wont get more pbase just fixing the mud, that only works for the people whos actually playing it (included the people who check from time in time whats going on here).

Does Torilmud have an official mud client or a way for posible new players to play and check it ?
Is it really prepared to get new players ?

The official page should have a visible link with this kind of help.

I'd love to see a link with the History of Torilmud, when I check the page.
Is boring that the actual homepage have only News that are updated twice a month or so.

Make the page more friendly or find a way to catch people attention, the old page had really interesting links for new players, I remember checking Todrael's lair to check how to play a class or Yarash's Mages' Sanctuary to check equip stats and quick paths when I was new here.

http://www.grokh.com/twiki/index.php/Main_Page

Torilmud
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Disoputlip
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Re: Direction

Postby Disoputlip » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:38 am

Yes, about the homepage, then I ofcourse also would like to se a client.

Remember we live in a world where telnet isn't even part of the default operating system. A small online alias system would help a lot for those that choose to start with the online client, and mabye the speedwalk dot that you know from zmud, no triggers.
flib
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Re: Direction

Postby flib » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:57 pm

I know mudconnector has sponsored links on their site.. and those games have a good pbase.. it's probably really expensive.. though idk.. this could definitely be an option. I was reading an article about the guy who created the site and he said something to the effect that they get like 100 k hits a month.. if we weren't number 1412 :P or something in rank that could definitely help. But that would take more people voting.. and a higher pbase to get the votes needed to raise us.. the sponsored link would work I think. Not sure the cost though. people are right, if the game had 100 people logging on daily or shoot.. 75 it would definitely help i'd think.
Turxx
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Re: Direction

Postby Turxx » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:09 am

retire or suspend admin sphere, we few do not need a cop calling us on petty crap
no reason regular staff cant quash gross/blatant violations
now im afraid to lazy tank exp, i hate exp, i play to zone
i will however happy turn a rescue and a bash trigger on and follow people around while i watch tv or do crap around the house, do homework or even immerse myself in the zone i want to finish
Turxx
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Re: Direction

Postby Turxx » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:37 am

how bout a quest to lock 50? say at 500% you can quest to lock 50, save people the whole press/ress hassle?
Turxx
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Re: Direction

Postby Turxx » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:42 am

also, ive said it before, i really dislike scaredale
you segregate the newbies, most are not even aware theyre not in the mud proper
if i would have started in scaredale when i started playing i dont think i would have stuck around
its not a bad idea, its just poorly executed imo
would be alot farther ahead to let newbies recall to vt or sm where they would actually find interaction and see people congregate
its sad to me when i see a newbie and no i cant just go and see them
Turxx
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Re: Direction

Postby Turxx » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:49 am

remove grouping restrictions
seems the only restrictions should be for those who pray to a god for their spells, and those restrictions should be on who they cast then on
Jhorr
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Re: Direction

Postby Jhorr » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:22 am

The top priority right now should be to expand the pbase. That means attracting and keeping both new and old players.

I never played WoW because I didn't want to pay for it. I bought Diablo and sacked it but never went back. I played Duris while Toril was offline.

The thing that has kept me playing here for so long is that the MUD has a dynamic quality - I love rare mobs and quests, there should be even more of them. Building a cool set of EQ is basically the reward for playing the game. This could be expanded into acquiring and questing for skills, etc. Allow multiclassing by questing for skills, etc. Allow limited multiplay while the pbase is low so new players can group with themselves and learn how classes interact and support each other. Develop the soloing aspect of the game so that the ultimate goal of the game doesn't have to be going to Tiamat with 29 other people. Maybe it can be to build a castle, own a store to earn income, build an army of NPCs to solo a zone, etc. This was implemented a while back with trading, etc. but it never really worked. I agree shorter zones should be the focus. Smaller groups, etc.

I don't think installing ways to lose the work that people put into their characters will encourage them to stay. The EXP grind should be seriously looked at. The only reason it's important is to go zoning at level 40 and beyond. We should refocus the game towards the lower levels to make it fun at ALL levels. I agree that a pwipe might be useful later but right now it will only result in a lower pbase.
digov
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Re: Direction

Postby digov » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:54 pm

I realize I haven't played much in the last few years (mainly playing wow these days) but I have kept up with some folks that do still play and I can also tell you that a good part of the reason I stopped playing was simply a lack of anything exciting to do. A pwipe would certainly give me pause to consider returning to the game and I know a few others who are in the same boat.

I wanted to chime in on one thing in particular, having been part of several successful games in the past as a coordinator type and an admin type. A pwipe would not be the worst thing that ever happened to Toril. In fact, if it was done right and marketed correctly for a period of time before and after it happened, it could be very beneficial. Something like the following might work:

This would require approval from the higher up folks obviously but I would bet it would be very successful.

1) Initiate an ad campaign on the main mud sites about 3-4 weeks prior to the pwipe taking place that Toril will be undergoing a playerbase wipe in order to reinvigorate the game but prior to that wipe, they would like to encourage new players to visit the game and experience a high level gaming experience to see what the future holds.

2) Make a change that allows new characters created during this 3-4 week period to be created at a higher level (i.e. maybe let them be level 48 out of the gate) with some basic but sustainable gear. The purpose of this would be to allow them to see how leveling works, how zoning works etc, it would allow existing players to experience playing some other classes.

3) Have some events planned just to show new players that the game is active and that the staff is involved (stop laughing)

4) After the 3-4 week period is expired, initiate the pwipe.

5) implement a system similar to wow where referrals of friends that make it to level 20 or higher after the pwipe results in a 10 percent experience 'boost' that lasts 2 weeks per friend referred.

6) continue with the 'marketing' on major mud sites for 2-3 months following the pwipe to ensure the name is out there and at the front of people's minds.

My opinion is that if these steps were properly taken, the pbase would indeed grow in a sustainable fashion for a while and that would lead to an influx of new blood which is wht I think everyone wants at the end of the day....

Thanks
Digov
flib
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Re: Direction

Postby flib » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:32 pm

I couldn't agree more with digov's post.
grundar
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Re: Direction

Postby grundar » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:30 pm

digov wrote:
3) Have some events planned just to show new players that the game is active and that the staff is involved (stop laughing)

5) implement a system similar to wow where referrals of friends that make it to level 20 or higher after the pwipe results in a 10 percent experience 'boost' that lasts 2 weeks per friend referred.


3 - the RPQ sphere has been holding events every weekend for at least the last month, maybe longer. From what i hear they're doing a good job of keeping people engaged with their campaigns.

5- i personally hate this step. it forces you to become what for all intents and purposes could be referred to as a damn telemarketer calling you during dinner to sell you something you might or might not want all for the chance to gain a benefit you couldnt gain otherwise. it brings a bad taste to mouth when i think of it cause it sorta reminds me of the free games that give you otherwise unobtainable benefits if you answer several surveys and click on adds. also, it would breed cheating.. know that there is no "account system" in place in this game thus you could use yourself as a referral while logging on from a different IP address and exping a char up to lvl 20.
Thilindel on Irony: Glibble GCC: 'stupid assed whiners'
grundar
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Re: Direction

Postby grundar » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:49 pm

1 - Wipe all bank accounts and set every mob to yield 0 coins upon death,
2a -take the random loot potion code and make random drop gemstones
of varied types and values, all graded by the level of the mob. These gems
can be sold at any gem merchant in the game for an appropriately balanced
amount of coins.
2b - Make small loot bags (junk bag item, no stats) with random amounts of gemstones
to be loaded at zone bosses.
3 - re-implement the trade system
4 - remove the cost of practicing skills and scribing spells from the game.

this removes the obscene amount of cash in the game and provides a sustainable environment
if you couple it with the Trade system. It leaves players with 4 viable ways to earn:
- gemfarming (which is similar to the platfarming of now but at a much lesser rate)
- the trade system
- auctioning/selling zone equipment
- the junk trade: (looting and selling all that garbage mob equipment like trollbark clubs)
as well as questing for coins.

Economy fixes = fresh value to old zone eq
Thilindel on Irony: Glibble GCC: 'stupid assed whiners'
flib
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Re: Direction

Postby flib » Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:43 pm

pretty much just a bump. No ones posted on this in over a week.
Corth
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Re: Direction

Postby Corth » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:24 pm

I like Digov's idea of creating an incentive for people to refer friends.

I also agree that a pwipe is necessary. I think it's a matter of perspective. Someone who plays regularly might object to losing their 10 alts and accumulated wealth. On the other hand, a lot of people left the game... because it has gotten to the point that there is so much wealth and alts in the game that it has gotten stagnant.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
Thilindel
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Re: Direction

Postby Thilindel » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:36 pm

Quit making +stat and +max_stat relative to wearer's race. Girdle of Giant Strength is just that - not Halfling wearing Girdle of Giant Strength, making Halfling Now Has Gnome Strength Girdle.

+items should be a notch (@ relative), not stacked to be a single notch. I know of no D&D items that need to stack.
Grundar tells you 'I took on the entire football team once. The only reason my mom knew later was because I had a runny nose'
torkur
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Re: Direction

Postby torkur » Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:38 am

Hey,

Jess and I just started playing again for fun after a couple years off here. Honestly that has only happened because we can jump back into the zoning/questing/rarehunting fun, so I do doubt that anyone who has quit will look forward to coming back post wipe to being 1-shotted by dockies for 6 months re-leveling for the (literally) 15th time.


Overall reading, good suggestions. 2 easy changes not to ignore though....

1) Removing the last 10 years of "anti-twink" junk that has been put in. One example: Citadel used to be fun to do in your 30s.....then people started small grouping/twinking and now we have level 53 blocking caster elementals.....which completely destroys it for new players learning the game and IN their 30s, where the zone was designed for. Also, IF you ever pwipe later.....is anyone ever going to enjoy 16 hour Vault runs because the remos swallow half the group before you get 1 to small wounds? I doubt it and it brings up point 2...

2) Zones/Mobs UNDER level 50 need their damage/hitpoints/ac/"difficulty" skills reduced on a sliding scale: 50% at level 1, up to 0% at level 50. Zones in the Credits list need all their mobs adjusted accordingly. I've tried to get 4-5 friends to start here with all the cool stories, watching zoning runs, etc......they all lasted under 1 week. You need to be able to SOLO to hook people on a game and you need to be able to do these zones, even if it allows 1-3 decked level 50s running them through. Noone starts a game with 15 friends anymore. Most of us are out of college, which is the group this mud caters to. If you are going to hook someone, they have to be able to do something, not feel like they're underpowered to a sparrow.

example: I had 1 friend start a cleric about 3 years ago. I gave him a crypt mace, a few other decent items, and leveled with him to 18 with his gf, Jess, and I in a group. He's raided the top end on WoW, so he has no trouble learning a game and will grind up in levels/fights. He logged on alone and went to bgr to fool around the day after. He said he spent 3 hours solo killing.....1 mob per 10 minutes to heal back up, get spells, and repeat. That was the last I got him to log on because it was so slow and so much recovery time he said it felt worse than sitting there programming. You should be blowing up mobs when you start with gear at that level, then need to really "group" about level 35 or so.

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