Upgrade Rangers

Submit and discuss your ideas for the MUD.
Ragorn
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Upgrade Rangers

Postby Ragorn » Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:30 am

First ranger upgrade thread!
- Ragorn
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Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:55 am

Rangers are still in the game? I couldda swore those things were statues at 1w !
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Postby Nilan » Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:57 am

Yup give em two daggers in the back and a cross and a shovel, and lets not forget the anti whine gag. *duck* :)

hell of a nice upgrade dont ya think ragorn?

HEHEH just like ol' times my ranger friend

Nilan :)
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Postby Gura » Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:18 pm

pwned by nilan
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Postby amolol » Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:38 am

not to kill your fun nilan but lets try being productave... 2 daggers are a waste it will only take 1 dagger and do it in the front thats where were most vonerable beingse that the wall we lean against is better defence than any skill we have.... humm what else ahhh cross and shovel well shovel might as well we might as well dig our own graves if we leave 1w... even to go to the inn.... as with the cross...not much good there by the time we try to cast a spell using it as a holy symbol the fight or person were casting it at is over/ dead and if we are casting it at ourself its only cause we are bored

lets try for some constructivve comments...
howabout at lvl 50 give us a quest skill called quick shot

for every regular shot we make with a bow give us a chance to (quickly) pull another arrow out and shoot it this would allow us to have up to 6 shots per round (if all saves were made)

to compensate for faster shooting make bigger quivers more available

also as stated quivers with some semi decent stats

umm... yea mebbe some new spells.. i cant think of any but prolly wont happen... dunno what else ill come up with more eventually
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Malia
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Postby Malia » Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:02 am

Atualy that quick shot idea has some merrit. Really creative thoughts kudos to you amolol.
Rangers def need a nitch to get into group. For the most part unless your equiped like weywey (and even then he has to ask to get invited) you dont get invited to zone cuz they are useless. Why bring a ranger? When we can answer that question in most zones then we might be steping in the right direction, untill then I enjoy having rangers are wd relocate targets since corth is on his evil at tp most of the time now.
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Postby Orku » Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:40 am

I like the idea of quick shot and bigger quivers, maybe even cool quivers with stats like a +1hit or +1 dam quiver for ranger/dire only.

And with quick shot for dires, maybe make it not as good for dires, sense they not better at archery than rangers, maybe give them a chance to fire an arrow(one) between rounds or an extra per round. Even with rangers i wouldn't go to six. or make it a spell that 9th or 10th circle that has to be quested for, and is self only.

Thats my thoughts.
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Postby amolol » Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:04 am

my point in saying making it 6 (if all saves met) its like getting a tripple proc on ofhand in a fight doesnt happen alot but still does ell mebbe not a tripple but most definitly a double this would give rangers a chance in groups if they ever fix missile shield... mebbe they could also get a called shot (start combat only) this was mentioned in a previous thread ...

ithink that they should also get some more melee related skills like double tap
any swordsman that knws what they are doing in a fight will use double tap basicly its where they swing once then a second time in the same swing using the wrist only... could make the second swing half the damage of the first?
this could be added ontop of double swing... making it possible to have up to 7 swings in a round.

could add other things for warrior classes in general like elbow (like kick only more accurate with less damage) think about it a skilled fighter will use what they can... elbows hurt to get hit with... so in a fight even if i am wielding a weapon im gonna elbow someone if i can...

possibly for rangers only add hilt wich is like shield punch only without the shiled.. (hilting is slamming the hilt of a sword into someones face)

as a skilled martial artist i think of things like this... i have fought enbough to know that one uses what they can and that the most dangerous part of a sword is not necicarily the blade... often times one is not expecting to be hilted in the face so this is a good thought to add in.

mebbe these ideas are just plain stupid but i think it was stupid not to add them i will try to come up with more of these stupid ideas as i go along.
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Orku
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Postby Orku » Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:32 am

I think they are some good ideas, maybe not just for rangers, but giving the whole fighting classes a lil upgrade.

maybe as a ranger/dire spell a form of haste that is self only last longer, but doesn't give as many attacks and is not stackable, for when your by yourself.

But if it upsets the balance of the game, it doesn't need to be in. I have learned that i might not get to go zoning all that much, and i'm ok with that, i'm going to play what class i want to play, and thats all there is to it.
but i like it when any class gets an upgrade
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amolol
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Postby amolol » Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:03 am

just a thought.. again

howabout we give rangers a skill that would let them crit more could call it um.. concentration or somthing

mebbe a skill that would let them gain yet another attack like im thinkin call it quick strike this would only hit for 3/4 the damage of the last connecting hit make it 1 per round automatic or could have it have a chance on critical hits only (the first skill would not be aplied if this were implemented)

howabout let us kick while shooting... just seems like i need somthing to type while watching battle spam

now lets talk bow skills

as i mentiond quick shot would be cool... howabout multi shot...when fighting multiple mobs let us be able to shoot 2 arrows and hit random targets (area damage for bows) this would be somthing typed not auto matic the chances of hitting the secondary (mebbe third?) would drop by 1/4 (thats 1/4 for each extra target) but would still be fun

humm howa bout somthing that would let you stun with a bow? i know someone is gonna say that there are enough ways to stun an opponent but it still would be kinda cool.. heres the idea

you trade 2 shots for one call it power shot or somthing what happens is the shooter pulls back on the bow just a little bit more dropping the accuracy but increasing the power of the shot have the shot do a little less damage than 2 normal shots but have the power to stun the enemy also this would double the chances of breaking an arrow (!break arrows are immune of course)

next idea fix missile shield

i dunno if this next idea is possible but howabout somthing that would increse the damage of the arrow its self.. a spell or skill or somthing or just make arrows enchantable so we can have all those bored chanters do something (not likly)

i think i will stop now and leave what little brain matter that i havent taken so until next time signing off this is amolol the iq obliterator
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Ihazim
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Postby Ihazim » Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:31 pm

change archery to a concentration skill :p, (idea taken from ythera's concentration spell). 1 shot, mega damage! like in the movies!
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Postby moritheil » Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:40 pm

Ihazim wrote:change archery to a concentration skill :p, (idea taken from ythera's concentration spell). 1 shot, mega damage! like in the movies!


oh great, cinematic combat :P
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Postby amolol » Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:13 pm

was being serious here guys lemme take this oportunity to post yet ANOTHER idea

thrust (aplied skill)

doesnt stun 1 round lag simply a thrust with the sword... why not mebbe a little extra damage if not its an extra swing

now for somthing a little more warrior oriented... shoulder bash (or somthing)
person A being the warrior slams his shoulder into person B's (the enemy) rib cage (possibly snaping a rib or two) making it hard to breath(cast) now make it a starting combat skill for dwarves
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Ashod
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Postby Ashod » Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:33 am

what happened to the traditional different arrow types

Flaming arrows.
acid arrows
arrows of mageslaying
arrows of dragonslaying
arrows of the vampire
lightning arrows
arrows of stunning
arrows of ice



everyone of these items would give rangers something to do..
and make them more useful in certain areas..
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Postby Yayaril » Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:25 am

8)

Here's some ideas I thought of to give the Rangers a little 'edge' to their skills:

Super slapshot: this skill allows the Ranger player to charge up a more effective goal scoring strike and send the puck past the goalie with a higher effectiveness.

Yogi Radar: With this higher powered skill, the ranger may successfully detect whether Yogi is harassing a camper for a picnic basket.

Summon Smokey: The ultimate power of a ranger is to summon up Smokey the Bear, who does extra damage against fire type enemies. You can only summon smokey if you are in a forest.
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Postby amolol » Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:59 am

i think thats the lamest post ive ever seen yayaril
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Malia
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Postby Malia » Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:10 am

Bhahahahahha! SMOKEY! Yaya once again you are the man! Nuff said!

Amolol, quit taking the jokes serious, you got some good ideas. Wouldnt mind seeing some coders thoughts on some of these.. rangers have been guarding 1w long enough! (and Corth is back in WD so i will still have my relocate target)
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Postby Treladian » Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:56 pm

Ashod wrote:what happened to the traditional different arrow types

Flaming arrows.
acid arrows
arrows of mageslaying
arrows of dragonslaying
arrows of the vampire
lightning arrows
arrows of stunning
arrows of ice

everyone of these items would give rangers something to do..
and make them more useful in certain areas..


Quite simply, we have no frickin clue. A number of things in the finalized draft for ranged combat never made it in, proc arrows being one of the more noticeable things that got lost along the way. Responsibility over the ranged engine switched hands two or three times back on Sojourn, and now another time with the move to Torilmud. If I find signs of a coder taking up development over ranged combat/rangers/dires, it's one of the issues I'm sure will be brought up.

Oh, and Malia: Amolol does have a right to be annoyed. The staff has previously said that one reason they don't bother looking at a lot of posts is because of nonconstructive junk that winds up filling them up and making it take too long to find ideas and feedback. Since this whole thread started out as a joke, it's not exactly the best place for ideas but the point still stands.
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Postby Orku » Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:28 pm

Well Amolol I don't think we should be able to kick during ranged combat.
Number one reason is we aren't close enough to kick, and it is kinda hard to fire a bow, using both your hands, and aiming. Your legs have to planted so your aim is still good.

All though i'm still a fan of the quick shot idea. Nod Nod.

Maybe a high level 10th circle spell, that lets your arrows break through missile shield. It would be cast on self, and make your arrows be able to go through missile shield, and maybe it starts at 75% then drops to 0% over time. Or give it a randomness of how much goes through.

Keep the ideas flowin amolol
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Postby old depok » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:27 pm

No offense here but until mellee as a whole is addressed how can we look at Rangers and balance them?

Until mellee is balanced against casting no amount of increase in Ranger power is going to get them to replace an invoker. The main issue here is that mellee is single target while casting is not.

All you have to do is think about Jot Gate house. What do you need to do this? Lots of area spells, an enchanter, a healer (preferably 1+ cleric 1 shaman) and enough warriors to tank and rescue the casters.

This is the fundamental issue with the way that the mud is set up today. Why bring a Ranger/Rogue when I can bring an invoker? Rogues are getting zone groups because of sneak/hide and pick lock.

No one gets in a zone group because of the mellee damage they bring.

As we wait for this balance to be addressed give Rangers a remort quest at 50 to become rogues :>)
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:57 pm

[quote="old depok"]As we wait for this balance to be addressed give Rangers a remort quest at 50 to become rogues :>)[/quote]

::swat::
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Postby amolol » Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:56 am

incase you didnt notice i have been posting these ideas as a way to balance the difference between caster/melee sure the archery ideas dont help the melee culture as a whole but they help a little...

second dont like rangers? dont post! nuff said there.

i understand where the gods r commin from with the magic should be stronger thabn melee in a sense. its not like im saying bring back monks so we can have invoker power in a hitter... what im trying to do is give us melee classes a chance. rogues are used for cr's warriors r the prime tank classes anti is mostly used as a hitter but r better than rangers in the sense that if sh*t goes down they can bail a few ppl out pali's r nice cause they can heal themselves in a pinch... rangers... um they can uh... do nothing efficiently

the ideas that i have been posting were directed towards rangers but as a whole was an attempts to give melee a boost. the quick shot idea and the multi shot idea were piss poor attempts to give rangers that dont have uber eq like wey a chance at groups.... as stated b4 even weylarii hasto ask most of the time to get into groups... what rangers need is somthing that will set them appart from the rest of the classes... archery was brought in as this attempts and it faild rogues lure better and do more damage... the idea as a ranger backup tank not gonna happen rangers have poor defence skill as a whole and because they are concidered a primary hitter class they drop all that spiffy hp gear because they need the extra hit/dam to keep up with rogues...

(long post but please bare with me)

the general consensus of those qwwho play melee classes is hupgrade melee whereas all of these new posts and spell ideas to advance the caster aspect of the mud is goin on compleetly negating all of the things that the admin as a whole have told us they were trying to do for at least a year if not longer. there are posts on the bbs about upgrading casters... what i say to that is take one for the team let those who cant solo for xp or solo certain quests have a chance at an upgrade.

rangers need an upgrade melee needs an upgrade rogues palis and antis need upgrades aswell right now the only melee class that will never be replaced or outclassed is the warrior. now that i have the attention of all you warrior types... when was the last time you asked for a spot in a group and they said we dont need any warriors? warriors are the only class that have a seccure spot.

the ideas ive posted are attempts at fixing some of this problem. mebbe we should downgrade casters a bit (insert flame here) mebbe not but we should at least attempt to reach a balance.

now that ive pissed every one off (including admin) i think i will sit back and wait for the stupid/lame/idiotic posts flaming me

P.S. for all of you whom are about to say dont like it dont play it or if you dont like it dont mud *bird*
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moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:07 am

Amolol group-says 'honestly mori i dont think haste items will help a hole hell of alot'
Amolol group-says 'not unless i can dual wield haste items and stack it with a haste spell for an extra 3-4 attack a round'

Let me just point something out.

I cannot roll up a level 1 invoker, eq him, and toss off some infernos.

I cannot roll up a level 1 enchanter and stone myself.

I can, however, roll up a level 1 ranger and get 35+/35+ hit/dam. Well, I could if I traded for the eq. It's very easy.

Now, it's true that that still won't let him hit level 50 mobs, or hit as well as a highlevel ranger.

But it's also true that the melee classes are easier to level and stay leveled than casters. They're supposed to be. So why are they weaker for damage? They're also supposed to be.

I like rangers, but I don't agree with the 'ranger uselessness' whines I keep hearing. Most of the decent rangers around get groups. Many of the non decent ones do not. Rangers are a tricky class because they are FAR TOO SIMPLE TO PLAY.

90% of a ranger's work is:
afire mobname. collect arrows. repeat.

Because of this, I personally suspect that those players who can't cut it as a mage or some such wind up playing rangers. I do NOT say that most rangers fall into this category, but honestly, I have seen some that I suspect would not cut it as stoners or fhealers get by as rangers.

That being said, I'm all for upgrading rangers, as long as playing one becomes a little more involved.
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Postby moritheil » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:21 am

Oh and PS - some zones you are MUCH better off with rogues/rangers than more vokers.

Trouble is, not everyone may realize that.
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Postby Lilithelle » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:50 am

Dugmaren's eq restatting will result in better hit/dam for hitters from what i've heard and less hps for casters. That should balance things some. and there are situations where rogue lure doesn't work and you need archery, like in SF. And I've used groups heavy in rogues/rangers in zones like MD, really rocks vs demon/dragons etc. Casters do nothing while buffeted, hitters keep damaging. And rangers may not be the tanks warriors are but they sure as heck tank better than the casters, I've been in groups where rangers have saved peoples lives by rescuing them while the tanks been busy bashing/shield punching and tanking long enough to get rescued themselves.

But thats not the main problem with your argument, you expect rangers to be useful/necessary to groups. Elementalists aren't, necros aren't, even druids aren't. Its not a core class, its a class with a diverse set of spells and skills that makes it very versatile. If something goes wrong all a warrior can do is run away or die, rangers have a spell that makes them no track, they have invisiblility, minor healing, vigs to help them run away :P (or travel around the mud with ease). In outdoor zones they rock, innate sneak, pass without trace, transport via plant. I've seen good rangers (and i don't mean good because of eq) solo in zones like trollbark where any other class would be a fool to try. Even a spell like sleep can be godly, one sleep spell can take a level 50 mob out of a fight. I play a druid and an elementalist not because they're necessary to a group but because they're versatile, much more fun to play than some one trick pony class. The only serious hitter alt I have is a ranger and its because they have that diversity to them. Just having vigs is really nice, great for running around the mud looking for quest mobs and the like, you have vigorize to get moves and tracking to help you find them. So personally I don't think they need much changing, just that people who want group invites shouldn't play them as their prime.
Lil
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Postby amolol » Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:05 am

my intent was not to propose rangers as a core class it was to try and get them in groups... there is no point in comparing elementalists to rangers elementalists are far more used... tho they are not a core class just about ever zone group i see has an elementalist in it. ill give you necro's tho they dont get the respect they diserve. but then again those two classes can solo extreemly well lili.

i have been waiting for the eq changes but i still doubt they will help rangers much unless i can mix hit/dam gear with hp gear. granted rangers have saved a few asses... i myself have saved a few but we still are not looked upon most of the time as a usefull class. why run somewhere with vigs when you can cast fly on yourself and move farther with using less moves or move yourself from one point in the world to another with a few spells. point = moot sorry likl tho im sure you will have somthing that will shutr me up should you decide to post again.
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Postby Lilithelle » Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:23 am

Its a neat class, i think you should appreciate it for its strengths. If you want groups, best way is to form them yourself. Can't have a group without a leader ;)
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Postby Lilithelle » Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:34 am

Actually now that i think of it, the reason i'd rather fill a group in with necromancers, elementalists, or anything other than a ranger is I don't like overworking the enchanters. I only bring as many tanks as are necessary. Which is usually 2 or 3, I only ever invite one rogue for the same reason. So maybe there in lies part of the problem.
Lil
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Postby amolol » Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:37 am

so in essence if haste items were introduced and missile shield fixed that would mean alot of rangers would get more groups with other ppl


also i cant lead zones if i cant do them
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Postby Ambar » Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:19 am

I guess I'm just used to hasting 4 and 5 hitter types, but I never felt overworked as an enchanter, in fact I revelled in it, and enjoyed being in the middle of all the fun ...

From what i have seen in my limited tenure as a goodie this wipe, Rangers are a severely under-rated class. A hasted ranger EATS mobs, so in my xp groups I always try to haste them ... from the feedback I have gotten, they like this, they like to feel useful ...

Are they tanks, naw .. they are powerful HITTERS with some spell-casting ability ... Do they need upgraded? Hell no :P perm haste items will make them the uber utility class they used to be years ago ...

Would I take them on zones?? Hell yes I would ... a hasted, blurring, 11 hit per round elven blender ...

-just my .02

-Jen
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Postby amolol » Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:58 am

rangers get 11 hits a round?...

r we a tank class? kinda

r we a hitter class? mostly

r rogues better hitters? yes

do they get the same attacks we do? yes

do they do more melee damage than rangers? yes

do rangers need an upgrade ? HELL YES!!!!

will hasted items help?...marginaly

if rangers can get haste items so can rogues givin the same abilities... sofar the only zone i know if that a ranger is preffereed to a rogue is SF im sure there are others but they either are never done or there are some invisable rangers out there that r never at 1w....
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Postby Orku » Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:05 am

Amolol for awhile I agreed that Rangers need an Upgrade, but tonight was the first night I ever zoned, and maybe its because i'm a Dire Raider and Evil, but I don't see that big of a diff between Rangers and dires, but i felt pretty darn useful. Sure they could picked someone higher in level than me, someone who can do more damage, or get something alot better. But I believe maybe they chose me becuase they see me exping, helping people out with xp or crs or anything i can, and just doing stuff, instead of sitting around. Maybe all the rangers at 1w should get up off their ass and just do something, prove that they are usefull. Sure I didn't do much besides afire <tank> or afire <mob> collect and repeat, but I also barked, witch isn't that much. But I felt useful. My point is, maybe all the rangers should stop complaining about their great 1w sitting skills, and show off their other skills in other areas of the mud. AS allways no flaming intended, and i wish no offense to anyone.

Orku
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Postby Nilan » Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:41 am

You did a nice job too Orku :)

I hope you had fun. Sure looked like ya did.

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Postby Sylvos » Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:37 pm

Rangers do not need an upgrade. Melee needs an upgrade, rangers need a clearer defined focus. Most people who have a ranger character do not play them to the extent of their abilities.

I zone, somewhat regularly when I have time to play Sylvos. You don't see me at one west unless I happen to be glancing at the board; instead if I'm not zoning I'm roaming, doing, learning, roleplaying and having fun. Complaining that rangers need an upgrade is ridiculous because the core fault of the class is the fact that melee is not balanced, and there isn't much other role for a ranger other than providing melee damage and some luring.

Eleven hits a round is a bit extreme Ambar though it is numerically possible to happen even without a Valhalla, it's highly unlikely :P. But nobody can argue that melee <<<< spell damage either single target or area. The other hitter class gets by because they have a slew of other utility abilities to compensate for the poor output of melee. Should rangers get this stuff?

No. There are already so many ways to disable or incapacitate a mob's abilities that throwing yet another one into the mix would be unbalancing. This isn't to say that I wouldn't LIKE to be able to walk through an entire zone untouched due to hide, instant kill that level 54 mob with equipment, and traipse back out again. Or be able to silence a mob or effectively bash while still wielding two weapons. But the inclusion of such on another class would be broken, even more so than imho those abilities already are.

But that's a rant for another day :P I've seen some neat ideas, some goofy ideas but ultimately it boils down to the fact that the melee cobmat and damage engine needs to be overhauled, because right now magic is way too much in another league.

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Postby Ambar » Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:47 pm

yes I have seen the 11 hits .. I guess maybe my ranger needs to post here ... is it typical? Not sure what his average hits per round are ...

Arilin leveled my elementalist to 41'ish with his ranger ... hasted he can get 11 hits .. he looks like an elven blender .. no it is not my character, I have just seen it in action the last month or two ...

as I said rangers are an untapped resource .. keep in mind this comes form an evil who is used to zoning with dires ... the whole ranger thing is new to me ... as an evil i see them as a great hitter class ..


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Postby Sylvos » Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:38 pm

All !considering valhalla and theoretical maximums, no dopplegangers as their hits get added into condensed counts.

Human ranger, dualing bec de corbin's can get

5 regular from haste
5 possible bec procs, each max 3 hits, min 1 for + 5-15

Total 20 attacks possible

Half-elf ranger, dualing windsong & bec de corbin.

5 regular from haste
3 possible windsong procs, each max 3 bonus hits, min 1 for +3-9 hits
2 possible bec procs, each max 3 bonus hits, yielding another +3-9 hits.

Total 23 attacks possible.

Grey-elf ranger, dualign windsong & bec de corbin.

5 regular from haste.
1/2 bonus from elfdom (1/2 cause it doesn't always happen)
3 possible windsong procs, each max bonus 5 hits, min 2 for +6-15 hits
2 possible bec procs, each max 3 bonus hits, yielding another +3-9 hits.

Total 29-30 attacks possible.

On paper looks pretty good till you factor in misses, mob defense negating a lot of those attacks, and of course the absolute improbability of all those numbers happening to fall together correctly. 11 hits tends to happen with a GOOD dual windsong proc or decent triple, plus no misses.
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Postby Ambar » Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:25 pm

Haste the ranger .. that's all i will say ... and no those arent the weapons he typically uses ...

Remeber, on paper, airplanes simply cannot fly .... but they do ...
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Postby Sylvos » Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:59 pm

Well, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about newer ranger weapons, but the ones I listed are the most common ones, and haste was included :)

Rangers don't need an upgrade, melee does.
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Postby Hyldryn » Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:40 pm

Ambar wrote:Remeber, on paper, airplanes simply cannot fly .... but they do ...


Uh... who told you that?
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Postby Caedym » Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:09 pm

Hey Rangers,
What's the skill cap on Riposte & Parry for you?

Hey Rogues,
What's the skill cap on Riposte & Parry for you?

Hey Warriors,
What's the skill cap on Riposte & Parry for you?

Hey Paladins and Antis,
What's the skill cap on Riposte & Parry for you?


Wondering where everyone stands on these two skills before I say anything else.

-Caedym Shadowhock
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Postby thanuk » Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:13 pm

F**k Rangers.


That is all.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'
You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'
Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'
You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'
Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Adana » Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:38 pm

Hyldryn wrote:
Ambar wrote:Remeber, on paper, airplanes simply cannot fly .... but they do ...


Uh... who told you that?


I think it's the Chinook Helicopter that can't fly on paper. :)
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Postby amolol » Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:51 pm

mebbe i dont see it because i dont get all the spanky eq.

and just for refrance i dont sit at 1w inless im idle. i usually tend to do xp or wander about attemtping to find somthing to do. dire raider are almost the same as rangers they are kinda like a pali/ranger besides evils have alot less players so tend to find the values of classes alot better. mebbe its just that i suck at mudding so much or mebbe its that i shoud play a different mud. i dunno i just know that rangers need a boost. some of the ideas i posted were in hopes of getting aboots for rangers but only a few people managed to take them seriously. so i think im gonna stop posting for a while again.
i dont know what your problem is, but i bet its hard to pronounce



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Postby Orku » Thu Oct 23, 2003 3:19 am

I have an idea that isn't an upgrade nessaccrily.

Afire area and Fire area
randomlly firing the 1 to 3 shots at random targets in the same room. Kinda like a hitall for archery if ya get what i'm saying,
taht is all

Orku
Zissa OOC: 'orku i will go to class for you if you go to work for me'

You OOC: 'if you don't mind me going naked'

Zissa OOC: 'sure its a bunch of sailors'

You OOC: 'got screwed on that one'



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Postby Nilan » Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:31 am

I have no riposte skill
I have no parry skill

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Postby Treladian » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:37 am

Sylvos wrote:rangers need a clearer defined focus.


This says it all really. We originally had a robust proposal from Miax that would have added both functionality and flavor to the class, but many of those ideas got neglected or otherwise forgotten due to various factors, responsibility for various aspects of the game shifting among the gods being no small part of this.

As is, I've found the various flexibilities of the class to only really come into play when the group is doing POORLY. Typically my rescuing and tanking has only really mattered when the primary tanks have just been chewed up and the mobs are eyeing the casters for dessert while the bashing only really enters into things for the times we decide to do CC with only 2 or three warriors/palis/antis. In a typical Imphras group (or any other group where the warriors are on the ball and the casters are doing their job), I wind up doing relatively little aside from switching around weapons, acting as an encyclopedia, and making fun of Rylan and Kifle. It's typically been in one of Touk or Trogar's 1 am "let's see who's above level 40 and still awake" groups that I really can utilize the functionality of the class. Once melee is balanced, all I think the class could REALLY use is something that can be used to keep things from going bad in the first place instead of only really coming into its own when things are halfway down the crapper.
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Postby Yayaril » Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:03 pm

8)

I think what the hybrids need is to lose a lot of the spells that the main casters have and gain a new list of spells that are unique to them.

For instance, if you gave the paladin a 'shield other' spell that lets them take half the damage for whoever they cast it on, they would probably feel a whole lot more like a paladin and less like a weaker warrior with pathetic cleric spells.

For antipaladins, you can perhaps add in a 'hatred' spell that nullifies the target's ability to switch opponents.

For rangers, you can add in a 'freedom of movement' spell that would last a short period of time, but would give the ranger immunity to slow and paralysis effects.

I'm sure if you think about it for awhile longer than me, you could come up with an entire list of unique spell abilities that would add a lot of individuality to these classes.
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Postby Lilithelle » Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:01 pm

Well Treladian, I really don't think you can under-estimate the importance of having someone in the group to insult Rylan and Kifle. I would do it myself but I get distracted by leading :(

To go on a tangent paladins should have some kinda of spell or skill that makes them better tanks of evil mobs, or undead. Paladins were born and raised to fight evil, they should be the best tanks of evil mobs. Where as warriors could be utilitized in zones for other things like bashing, shield punch, tanking non-evil mobs, etc. And in general would tank decently well. But when I form a zone group no matter what mobs i'm going up against i never say lets get a paladin, its more like there aren't enough warriors i guess a paladin might do.

I had an idea for a paladin skill or spell, you could call it something like supreme sacrifice. It would let a paladin tank evil mobs below 0 hps, kinda like a negative vit, but if they stopped tanking evil aligned mobs while below 0 hps they'd die instantly. If you read fantasy literature paladins are supposed to be the ultimate heros, if they have to hold off 8 ogres single handedly while their group gets away, they'll do it, somehow by their god they'll do it, but likely die in the process.

Antipaladins need an anti-rescue skill if you ask me, they're not dumb enough to stick their necks out for someone else. Let the poor dumb barbarian warrior die instead. It would make the target of their skill the new tank (must be someone in their group). Casin deftly side steps a green dragons attacks and push Mogr in front of him. It would actually be a useful skill for balancing the number of attackers on each tank, or if one tank is in good condition but the anti is about to die it could help.
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Postby old depok » Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:30 pm

How about a skill with the same name for both pali and Anti -

Sacrifice-
Pali - Instantly rescues all players but sets defensive skills to 0 for 2-4 rounds.

Anti - Shoves the person closest on the group list in front of the Anti and switches the mob from the anti to them.

I would say make the Anti a target skill like Sacrifice bob. But I would imagine that the entire mud would roll anti's for nothing else but to use the new skill for this...

Sacrifice Kifle

Nidus Cackles as he deftly shoves Kifle in front of him to use as a shield.


Oh and, Amolol, I think Sylvos and Treladian said it best. Wait for the Melee changes. After those changes post again or revive this thread. I think a lot of people would like to see Rangers be a useful, colorful class. It is just hard to try to do that without addressing the other melee classes as well.
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Postby Caedym » Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:35 pm

Well since noone has bothered to answer other then Nilan, I'm still uncertain where Rangers sit in comparison to the other classes I asked about in terms of Riposte/Parry.

So Rangers do less damage then rogues, yet they have Riposte and Parry and Rogues do not. I suppose this allows them to tank just a smidgeon better then a rogue (I'm guessing here because you rangers have YET to respond to my question, so I have no idea if parry and riposte are any good for them)?

But anyways, my idea I was trying to head towards was - What if Rangers Riposte became noticeably better then any other class that had this skill? Even riposting in 2ndary like crazy. So a ranger becomes the best riposter in the game by far. Their Riposte becomes so good in fact it is just under the damage of a rogue's vital strike. So difference in damage output between a ranger and a rogue, would be about the same different on the reverse in terms of tanking skills. Well minus a little more on the rangers damage since they also have archery. But you get my point.

Would this help the Rangers out any? I do agree with Yaya that it would be more interesting if they had their own series of spells and skills, but I too can't think of any atm. Maybe we should give Necasio an orgasm and give rangers a Bladesinger dance or something. I dunno.

Btw, I like that Anti idea Lilithelle. Very appropriate! (I do see a way for it to be easily abused and a pkill tactic tho. Perhaps if the person you do this to has to consent you or the skill doesn't work?)

-Caedym Shadowhock

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