evils and goods!
Apparently people who play evil characters on muds and people who play good character on muds are genetically different.
Fortunately us neutrals hate you all :9
I think one of the problems atm is that with the small playerbase a couple of the more fiesty evil players stand out like tacks. Also lord of the rings makes everyone want to be a goodie so they can be part of the fellowship *comf*.
Perhaps could try leading an evil zone every week at a set time so that people who have evil characters know they will be able to zone regularly. That way as different people cycle through the group the players could increase rather than people sitting at fountain cos they can't find a shaman etc and moving to good characters?
Cordan I think if your posts were a little less abrasive people would want to read them more thoroughly
Fortunately us neutrals hate you all :9
I think one of the problems atm is that with the small playerbase a couple of the more fiesty evil players stand out like tacks. Also lord of the rings makes everyone want to be a goodie so they can be part of the fellowship *comf*.
Perhaps could try leading an evil zone every week at a set time so that people who have evil characters know they will be able to zone regularly. That way as different people cycle through the group the players could increase rather than people sitting at fountain cos they can't find a shaman etc and moving to good characters?
Cordan I think if your posts were a little less abrasive people would want to read them more thoroughly
lvl 49 and 46 orc shaman/battlechanter.
Leveling is hella easy as an evil! Most evils don't like me, and maybe 4 befriended me, 2 of which I never exp'd with. Hell Dizzin even told me he hated my guts the first week I was playing evil. None of that stopped me. If you can commit the time you can do it. I didn't use any tricks to level. I just got into exp groups or made my own. Eventually I was in the groups to do the first Hulburg and TTF runs (and no we didn't get any help from Cherzra). Don't give me that "oh nobody would group with me" excuse because it wasn't valid then and probably isn't now. If you can't find a group, roll a new char or go do something in real life until you feel like playing again.
Oh yea and about Sservis. I only talked to him a couple of times but the statements they said about him are correct. He's one of those nice guys who is trying to figure out everything about this game. It was VERY nice to finally talk to someone about tested observations about the MUD, rather than being told I'm wrong by a guy who hasn't tested anything (Corth :P).
Leveling is hella easy as an evil! Most evils don't like me, and maybe 4 befriended me, 2 of which I never exp'd with. Hell Dizzin even told me he hated my guts the first week I was playing evil. None of that stopped me. If you can commit the time you can do it. I didn't use any tricks to level. I just got into exp groups or made my own. Eventually I was in the groups to do the first Hulburg and TTF runs (and no we didn't get any help from Cherzra). Don't give me that "oh nobody would group with me" excuse because it wasn't valid then and probably isn't now. If you can't find a group, roll a new char or go do something in real life until you feel like playing again.
Oh yea and about Sservis. I only talked to him a couple of times but the statements they said about him are correct. He's one of those nice guys who is trying to figure out everything about this game. It was VERY nice to finally talk to someone about tested observations about the MUD, rather than being told I'm wrong by a guy who hasn't tested anything (Corth :P).
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
thanuk wrote:Zoldren wrote:this is how things have always been, and always will be. Evils are not MENT for true newbies unless they can puttheir hearts into it, blood sweet and tears into it. if you cant do that, and you want to be evil, dont whine the first 5000 times you are shuned. Zoning/exp/friends comes with knowledge of YOUR class/race and basicly effort on your side, dont expect everything handed to you.
The other thing i suggest is trying to convince a whole guild or a clique of people to all go evil together. If you can get like 5-10 people who all group together and go on at the same time to all become evil together, they won't get bored because they have nobody to group with, and they might actually stick with it. Just don't give them the famous ebil charm when they get there:)
Good luck.
can anyone say a former evil guild.....
came tryed, stuck to themselfs *ya evils are the only ones that are stuckup suuuree*... all quit
*from earlier*
point is, ya evils expect people to learn how to play their own class, and explore their own home town, if they cant do that how the hell they gona zone? the need to learn how to play first *ie roll a goodie* OR take the dam time and learn how to play and learn their hometown, if they take tha time they WILL be accepted as an evil they WILL go zoneing, they WILL become a good evil.
case in point, ME, I took the time, I learned, I TOOK all the critisizim to heart and corrected my playstyle to FITIN with the evils. not bitch and moan because they didnt like me, or i suxed *yes i still do :P*
I learned how to play it, there are other evils that are just like me, learned how to be an evil, and not some crybaby ass who wants everything his/her way. crybabys always quit, people who really want to be an evil learn.
point you wana be evil, do your homework. you wana be evil, when someone gives you advice *con mobs, walk around hometown* do it, learn it, then once you have, ask another question, dont just say where should i kill, and expect the fuggin mobs listed from 1-50
as for not getting groups.. do a who yourlvl -5your lvl +5 nobody on? hmm wonder why your not grouped.
if someone says i am solo.. so be it.. if someone says we are full. so be it.. dont even say goodies are different, because they arnt.
everything you guys are saying evils are soo dam bad about, you do on the good side, its fuggin halrious.
MoM-D
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
Zoldren's got a good point and I'd like to add on it.
You (the reader) may think you're a good player just because you've done the first Jot invasion back in Toril and have played this game for 8+ years. Nobody cares. 8 years of experience means squat to me. Accept peoples' advice. People give that kind of advice to help, not to make you look/feel like a retard.
You (the reader) may think you're a good player just because you've done the first Jot invasion back in Toril and have played this game for 8+ years. Nobody cares. 8 years of experience means squat to me. Accept peoples' advice. People give that kind of advice to help, not to make you look/feel like a retard.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Mitharx wrote:Cordan, there are many people who took the post the same way I did. I addressed it directly because I believe the statement you made is a perceived problem for the evil side.
Communication is about making your point in a clear and precise manor. Since several people saw the post the way I did, I would say you did not communicate clearly. Fine, no biggy. Grunting, as if you have such an excellent grasp on communicating points and the people who understood your comment differently do not, is counterproductive to making an argument. It's an attack and not necessary. Try to cut the flames and stick directly to your point. Thank you.
P.S. If you felt flamed on the post above, I apologize. I was feeling a bit insulted about the comments.
Heh. The statment I made IS a problem for the evil side. Look at their pbase. Look at the poll. Look at the responses. Look at what the majority of people have posted. It is a problem. It's been more than proven. And I believe my points are very valid. It makes sense if you think about it.
And no, I don't feel flamed. I debate things every day in rl as a job. I've heard worse, and given worse. Sure, it works you up, but that's the fun of a debate. A debate without emotion is boring! And I can see someone twisting this in their head saying 'but he can't take being evil'. Blah, flames and direct abuse are two different things, imho.
Anywho, I whipped out some of my evil chars the other day, just to play around. The only evils who even acknowledged my existance were alts of goodie players as well.
And yeah, I guess maybe it's to abrasive for this forum Sarell. Everything has to be sugar coated to be read well. Oh well. Sorry to offend.
Zoldren wrote:thanuk wrote:Zoldren wrote:this is how things have always been, and always will be. Evils are not MENT for true newbies unless they can puttheir hearts into it, blood sweet and tears into it. if you cant do that, and you want to be evil, dont whine the first 5000 times you are shuned. Zoning/exp/friends comes with knowledge of YOUR class/race and basicly effort on your side, dont expect everything handed to you.
The other thing i suggest is trying to convince a whole guild or a clique of people to all go evil together. If you can get like 5-10 people who all group together and go on at the same time to all become evil together, they won't get bored because they have nobody to group with, and they might actually stick with it. Just don't give them the famous ebil charm when they get there:)
Good luck.
can anyone say a former evil guild.....
came tryed, stuck to themselfs *ya evils are the only ones that are stuckup suuuree*... all quit
*from earlier*
point is, ya evils expect people to learn how to play their own class, and explore their own home town, if they cant do that how the hell they gona zone? the need to learn how to play first *ie roll a goodie* OR take the dam time and learn how to play and learn their hometown, if they take tha time they WILL be accepted as an evil they WILL go zoneing, they WILL become a good evil.
case in point, ME, I took the time, I learned, I TOOK all the critisizim to heart and corrected my playstyle to FITIN with the evils. not bitch and moan because they didnt like me, or i suxed *yes i still do :P*
I learned how to play it, there are other evils that are just like me, learned how to be an evil, and not some crybaby ass who wants everything his/her way. crybabys always quit, people who really want to be an evil learn.
point you wana be evil, do your homework. you wana be evil, when someone gives you advice *con mobs, walk around hometown* do it, learn it, then once you have, ask another question, dont just say where should i kill, and expect the fuggin mobs listed from 1-50
as for not getting groups.. do a who yourlvl -5your lvl +5 nobody on? hmm wonder why your not grouped.
if someone says i am solo.. so be it.. if someone says we are full. so be it.. dont even say goodies are different, because they arnt.
everything you guys are saying evils are soo dam bad about, you do on the good side, its fuggin halrious.
LOL. If I'm a noob, and i log on and see, "play goodie, evils hard" so ok, I'll roll a goodie. I learn, grow, learn who i like, who to avoid, start zoning, and make a place for myself. So why would I go evil? The only real reason is to see what it's like on the dark side, right? So I try it, meet that one player that has a badass attitude, and I say screw this, i got a perfectly good goodie, and friends on that side, i'm bolting, not only because I don't want to deal with it, because I don't have to.
Now, growing up as a goodie with the only other char I got, I run into some asses who make me feel like crap. Well, it's easier to hide there than it is on the evil side. Many more people to ask help from, etc. So they'll tend to stick with it because you can avoid the asses. In that case, they'll find a niche.
That's basically my story in a nutshell. Exactly what happened to me. I've seen it happen to others of my friends as well. Friends of mine I made back when I first started mudding. And to clear any other misconceptions up, I'm not elite, I'm still noob in many ways. I make mistakes all the time. My friends laugh, get resses, and move on. And usually they get me killed in return.
Anywho, I can see Zoldrens point clearly on the guild moving over like that. yeah, they probably would stick together, and that would cause headbanging. Good idea, doomed to fail in a lot of cases. I do agree though, that if the Evils had a massive influx of new players, it would help tons. I know a lot of you evils want the cream of the crop, but you don't always get it, sometimes you get people like me!
Anywho, those my last words, guess I'm not being very constructive with the present crowd, I apologize. Sorry I ruffled yer feathers Mitharx and anyone else. Good luck!
P.S. I'd like to see the evil pbase evolve, fyi. Better for the mud.
Dezzex wrote:Tasan wrote:You guys just don't seem to get it.
So clarify why you left -- if it was the fact that there was no activity/groups (as you seem to imply by mentioning fountain sitting), then that's the pbase issue, not attitudes. If you left because you were treated like crap as a newbie, then obviously I too consider that poor and unwarranted treament on our part.
I "left" because I don't have the patience or time to waste trying to solo a cleric to a level where I might get noticed. I knew a long time ago you needed some core classes, and I figured that everyone would see someone playing one of those classes and at least give them a chance to prove themselves. When I leveled to 15 or whatever, I put in solid time in doing it because there were a few people I knew that I spent a good portion of time with. I probably would have continued to play evil had I not run into a complete wall on getting anywhere.
Regardless of what most people think about my ranger, I don't spend a ton of time guarding 1w. I walk around the world checking rares, doing new quests, and helping people out. I used to lead a fair bit when I could get people to follow, but lately that hasn't happened since no one on goodie side wants to do my old favorite zones, and because of the shitty stability.
I said before, I respect the evils way of doing things, and I respect the time and effort involved. I just got bored because the time I tried to put in seemed to go to waste.
T
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'
Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'
Calladuran: There are other games to play if you want to play with yourself.
Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'
Calladuran: There are other games to play if you want to play with yourself.
everything you guys are saying evils are soo dam bad about, you do on the good side, its fuggin halrious.
Yes goods do this. But then again, we aren't the ones complaining about our player base. It sounds bad, but evils in general really have to drop the "attitudes" other players think they have. Are the attitudes fair in general to evils? No, of course not. Nobody is disagreeing with that. The real problem is if players feel evils have attitudes, whether or not they are justified, that is what is hurting the evil pbase. Michael Jackson isn't guilty yet, but how many of you are gonna let your children play with him?
Solutions? Many people have some real great ideas up there. Bottom line, evils gotta be sugar and spice now. Yes, we all have our days when we just wanna scream at other players. But I honestly think if the evils could really work at it, they could be a real tight knit family. The smaller pbase isn't a problem if you guys and gals are one big happy family. Group maximum is still 15, bring 4 dires for fun! If they all have fun zoning with y'all, maybe they will roll a "needed" class. Give some of those "outcasted" evils are second, third, fourth chance at zones and quests. Prodigal son anyone?
Also, if I was a hardcore evil..I'd stop posting threads of this nature. This can't be helping your cause. If you were a newbie reading this crap, would you honestly say you would roll an evil?
Yes goods do this. But then again, we aren't the ones complaining about our player base. It sounds bad, but evils in general really have to drop the "attitudes" other players think they have. Are the attitudes fair in general to evils? No, of course not. Nobody is disagreeing with that. The real problem is if players feel evils have attitudes, whether or not they are justified, that is what is hurting the evil pbase. Michael Jackson isn't guilty yet, but how many of you are gonna let your children play with him?
Solutions? Many people have some real great ideas up there. Bottom line, evils gotta be sugar and spice now. Yes, we all have our days when we just wanna scream at other players. But I honestly think if the evils could really work at it, they could be a real tight knit family. The smaller pbase isn't a problem if you guys and gals are one big happy family. Group maximum is still 15, bring 4 dires for fun! If they all have fun zoning with y'all, maybe they will roll a "needed" class. Give some of those "outcasted" evils are second, third, fourth chance at zones and quests. Prodigal son anyone?
Also, if I was a hardcore evil..I'd stop posting threads of this nature. This can't be helping your cause. If you were a newbie reading this crap, would you honestly say you would roll an evil?
Meatshield
2 ways of being evil:Evils are "supposed" to be harder:
1)Once you get bored with goodies think youre the best, come play evil and try to be the best in a different way, then play whichever side you liked better
2) start as evil, learn, learn, learn, be respectful, learn learn learn, exp, learn, be respectufl, exp, and ho and behold, your an evil with respect for others and others you.
*holds big sign up stating #2 works on both side the race "war"*
the people i see bitchin about evils are the people who 1) couldnt adjust to the differences and think its to hard for one reason or anohter *including people* 2) dont want to put the time in to learn on their own.
side not, if so many evils are such ass holes, how come they have so many goodie friends?
and fyi, i love newbies, help them out when ever i can, but help = teachin != handin to, leadin by hand
con mobs, explore home town, help %1, learn your class, learn your job in exp/zones, learn your requirements, try, try again, get help try yet again. who mylvl-5 mylvl +5 ungroup sort, t %1 hey wana group a bit? no? ok, who mylvletc group, t %1 got room for me? am new here and solo exp is hard
%1 tells you we full try back in min,
%1 tells you full will send tell when one leaves
%1 tells you sure come
%1 tells you fug off
the last one being what people are saying happens.... ya right..
t %1 need help diedneeda cr b4 leave for work got 5 min...
%1 tells you sure where at?
%1 tells you fugg off
again last one is how evils are portrayed on the boards, the first is how it is.
ive got alts nobody knows, save 1 oosh knows them all but prob forgets :)
and i have had problems and sent tells and always got help, no problem on the evil side.
on the good side there are also people willing to help. just gota find the unafk ranger or druid who guard 3w :p
1)Once you get bored with goodies think youre the best, come play evil and try to be the best in a different way, then play whichever side you liked better
2) start as evil, learn, learn, learn, be respectful, learn learn learn, exp, learn, be respectufl, exp, and ho and behold, your an evil with respect for others and others you.
*holds big sign up stating #2 works on both side the race "war"*
the people i see bitchin about evils are the people who 1) couldnt adjust to the differences and think its to hard for one reason or anohter *including people* 2) dont want to put the time in to learn on their own.
side not, if so many evils are such ass holes, how come they have so many goodie friends?
and fyi, i love newbies, help them out when ever i can, but help = teachin != handin to, leadin by hand
con mobs, explore home town, help %1, learn your class, learn your job in exp/zones, learn your requirements, try, try again, get help try yet again. who mylvl-5 mylvl +5 ungroup sort, t %1 hey wana group a bit? no? ok, who mylvletc group, t %1 got room for me? am new here and solo exp is hard
%1 tells you we full try back in min,
%1 tells you full will send tell when one leaves
%1 tells you sure come
%1 tells you fug off
the last one being what people are saying happens.... ya right..
t %1 need help diedneeda cr b4 leave for work got 5 min...
%1 tells you sure where at?
%1 tells you fugg off
again last one is how evils are portrayed on the boards, the first is how it is.
ive got alts nobody knows, save 1 oosh knows them all but prob forgets :)
and i have had problems and sent tells and always got help, no problem on the evil side.
on the good side there are also people willing to help. just gota find the unafk ranger or druid who guard 3w :p
MoM-D
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
"the people i see bitchin about evils are the people who 1) couldnt adjust to the differences and think its to hard for one reason or anohter *including people* 2) dont want to put the time in to learn on their own."
It's cool you feel that way, but there is attitude in that statement as well. I'm not saying it's negative or bad, it just puts a slant on things. If newbies MUST put that extra hard time and effort in to become a viable evil then that is part of the coding of the game and being an evil is necessarily gonna mean you have less pbase. I personally don't think it's true.
The game is over whelming at first and very difficult to get a grasp on for some people. I think we all felt a bit awe struck when we first started. There is nothing at all wrong with coddling people. Now don't get me wrong, I know your statement referred directly to goodies who tried evils and not newbies, but I think the say rules would apply in either case. The goodie needs help, the newbie needs help. One knows the commands and one doesn't, but the big difference in game play comes at understanding the actual game and components of the game, not the commands. Help files will give you all the command stuff.
I spoon feed a bit, but I do it in an RP way or a fun way. I enjoy it, then enjoy it, it's cool. I don't spoon feed them 1-50 and I've flat out told people at certain levels "I and my friends have helped a fair amount, we'd like you to set out and see what you can get done on your own for a bit, but feel free to send me a message if you get in trouble."
It's not saying they'll never develop in to great players afterwards, it's just a jump start and I think it's really good for the newbies. I've seen some pretty descent retention rates and what not. Heck, I got to play a necro on the evil side once:P
Well anyway, if you think there is nothing wrong with the way people are treated then maybe you're right. For all I know the game itself is turning people away from evils. Roll a goodie and come have fun with us then.
In any case, it seems that people want to know why the pbase is suffering but don't like the answers. People say "I was turned off from evils because of X" and then there is a response of "X is the way to mud and it's worked before" or "X is right and we don't want crappy players who can't do X" or "X isn't as bad as you guys say it is"
People might be wrong on what's causing pbase problems, but it's all we got. If no one accepts it then so be it. There is still zoning and fun to be had for evils. It just may a bit less often.
Also, I agree that posts like this could potentially hurt the pbase, but they could be helpful. Doesn't seem to be in this case though. Anyway, I'm rambling. I suggest doing what makes you happy and letting things fall in place where they may, but then I think everyone is doing that anyway. The pbase is the pbase and what happens happens. Suggesitng things doesn't seem to be helping any.
It's cool you feel that way, but there is attitude in that statement as well. I'm not saying it's negative or bad, it just puts a slant on things. If newbies MUST put that extra hard time and effort in to become a viable evil then that is part of the coding of the game and being an evil is necessarily gonna mean you have less pbase. I personally don't think it's true.
The game is over whelming at first and very difficult to get a grasp on for some people. I think we all felt a bit awe struck when we first started. There is nothing at all wrong with coddling people. Now don't get me wrong, I know your statement referred directly to goodies who tried evils and not newbies, but I think the say rules would apply in either case. The goodie needs help, the newbie needs help. One knows the commands and one doesn't, but the big difference in game play comes at understanding the actual game and components of the game, not the commands. Help files will give you all the command stuff.
I spoon feed a bit, but I do it in an RP way or a fun way. I enjoy it, then enjoy it, it's cool. I don't spoon feed them 1-50 and I've flat out told people at certain levels "I and my friends have helped a fair amount, we'd like you to set out and see what you can get done on your own for a bit, but feel free to send me a message if you get in trouble."
It's not saying they'll never develop in to great players afterwards, it's just a jump start and I think it's really good for the newbies. I've seen some pretty descent retention rates and what not. Heck, I got to play a necro on the evil side once:P
Well anyway, if you think there is nothing wrong with the way people are treated then maybe you're right. For all I know the game itself is turning people away from evils. Roll a goodie and come have fun with us then.
In any case, it seems that people want to know why the pbase is suffering but don't like the answers. People say "I was turned off from evils because of X" and then there is a response of "X is the way to mud and it's worked before" or "X is right and we don't want crappy players who can't do X" or "X isn't as bad as you guys say it is"
People might be wrong on what's causing pbase problems, but it's all we got. If no one accepts it then so be it. There is still zoning and fun to be had for evils. It just may a bit less often.
Also, I agree that posts like this could potentially hurt the pbase, but they could be helpful. Doesn't seem to be in this case though. Anyway, I'm rambling. I suggest doing what makes you happy and letting things fall in place where they may, but then I think everyone is doing that anyway. The pbase is the pbase and what happens happens. Suggesitng things doesn't seem to be helping any.
-
- Sojourner
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 6:01 am
Thought I would chime in for no reason.
I am one of those that tried evils and left. But recently, after reading many of the posts here I thought I would go back and give it another try. Mostly for the challenge. Also because everyone in my book deserves a second chance.
So I rolled a tank, not a regening green monster but a nice RP darkie. I'm low level of course, but I've been treated pretty damn well this time around. Asked by ppl 3-9 levels higher to xp, learned how to warp and fire (u know who u are) and several interesting things I never found out as a goodie. I've never turned down another player if they needed tankage and I was xping - and never plan to.
There arent many ppl playing evils, its a bit quiet compared to the racous ways of the good life. But the challenge is fun. I have to keep my mind on the dangers, the tricks, the time to stay alive because I am pushing it to the limit.
In conclusion, if you have wanted to play evils - remember to give it a second or even third chance. Eventually it will pay off.
Grimenkhan
I am one of those that tried evils and left. But recently, after reading many of the posts here I thought I would go back and give it another try. Mostly for the challenge. Also because everyone in my book deserves a second chance.
So I rolled a tank, not a regening green monster but a nice RP darkie. I'm low level of course, but I've been treated pretty damn well this time around. Asked by ppl 3-9 levels higher to xp, learned how to warp and fire (u know who u are) and several interesting things I never found out as a goodie. I've never turned down another player if they needed tankage and I was xping - and never plan to.
There arent many ppl playing evils, its a bit quiet compared to the racous ways of the good life. But the challenge is fun. I have to keep my mind on the dangers, the tricks, the time to stay alive because I am pushing it to the limit.
In conclusion, if you have wanted to play evils - remember to give it a second or even third chance. Eventually it will pay off.
Grimenkhan
the real reason we dont play evils is because nobody wants to type your friggin names!
resc llaladara
resc lalaladara
resc lllaaldara
Llaaldara is dead! R.I.P.!
resc llaladara
resc lalaladara
resc lllaaldara
Llaaldara is dead! R.I.P.!
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'
You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'
Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'
You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'
Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'
Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'
You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'
Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
right nik like sikheinishishahiem is esier to type then grugg or nilan or mebbe zubax howabout kosaj well you get my point btw thatbiglongfreakin name belings to a grey elf invoker and grugg is my troll warrior justincase noone has heard of him (doubt you have its just one of my alts)
i dont know what your problem is, but i bet its hard to pronounce
myspace.com/tgchef
myspace.com/tgchef
feh
Last edited by Ambar on Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
"When a child is born, so is a grandmother."
-Italian Proverb
-Italian Proverb
Vahok wrote:Also, if I was a hardcore evil..I'd stop posting threads of this nature. This can't be helping your cause. If you were a newbie reading this crap, would you honestly say you would roll an evil?
Amen! I said this in both psosts!
"When a child is born, so is a grandmother."
-Italian Proverb
-Italian Proverb
I have all the answers! (I copied the teacher's book)
[As usual, check the bottom of this post for the short version.]
Normally I'd simply observe this little debate and make no comment of my own, but a few people have directed my attention to this thread and I believe it deserves addressing.
This post is made with absolutely NO reference to any other posts in this thread (since I didn't really feel like reading them all. Jesus, you people write almost as much as I do)... so if you're thinking about replying to this post with things like "see, I said above that [blah blah blah]," you're thinking WRONG.
Furthermore, none of the material in this post is intended to be inflammatory, but somehow I get this nagging feeling that one of you wankers (that's said regardless of racial alignment) will read into it and protest against some point I didn't make.
That being said...
The simple fact is that the evil playerbase is terminally smaller than that which the goodrace characters enjoy. This is nobody's FAULT. (So quit pointing fingers, dammit.)
This may in some part have to do with the fact that the three races that are clearly suggested for new players are goodrace characters. As a helper character I've seen a goodly number of newbies who have said that they would switch to evil...if only they hadn't already established their mighty 15th-level powerhouse characters on the goodrace side. I suppose that hurts us a little. (In terms of playerbase I mean, though the emotional scarring is deep for me as well.)
I originally created as a goodie, mostly because of the "evilraces are tough to start!" warnings, to get a feel for the mud despite being intent on making my permanent characters evil. He progressed slowly and got small amounts of help here and there... In contrast, Khoric got much more help when he first started out. I'm not going to say it was because the evils were any better at helping out a lowbie, because it wasn't. The difference was made entirely by actually going out and initiating contact. There's nothing more or less difficult about being an evil, and the playerbase is still large enough that it's entirely possible to go through the levels without ever needing to get into anyone's good graces. Khoric advanced quickly, from absolute scratch and knowing nobody, and still managed to land a group for ship exp at 20th and a zone at 25th or so. Note that this took absolutely zero ass-kissing on my part (though I'll admit I don't find the taste disagreeable). And hell yes, at just short of 49th level and having zoned in plenty of places, I am still blissfully noobtastic. Seriously, did I get to where I am now because I "had connections" or because I "did everything I could to be accepted by the bigger evils" or because I "put out on the first date"? Of course not! I did what I could to advance, played with addict-like devotion, and most of all did my best to learn what things I was useful for (taking damage, for example). And that's it. Find out where you fit in. You don't have to like or be liked by everyone, you just have to figure out what your job is and do it. And maybe you can try to be nice, or at least entertaining, at the same time.
As for you others out there who have had issues starting evils: use NHC. Sometimes, evilrace helpers are looking at their screens and willing to help. I, for one, am entirely willing to take a break from nuking low-level unclassed mobs to relo to you and give you a hand past some trouble spot, provided you're willing to help yourself and figure out what's going on. (Note, I am not perfect, I am not all-knowing, I am not always in a position to help, and I am not Jack's inflamed ego.) And there are plenty of evils who would do the same. And yes, hand-me-down eq is available. And yes, there are evils taking exp groups around DK and other fun places. There's no reason to say that a new evil will get any more or less help than a new goodie. Plain and simple, evils need more players. Mkay?
[Welcome to the short version, which doubles as my conclusion..]
As much fun as we all poke at each other, evils and goodies still function in similar fashion, and there's no real reason to pick one playerbase over the other. I picked evil and I turned out fine, but there's no reason it wouldn't have turned out in a similar fashion if I'd gone goodie. Some attitudes on either side could stand for some fixing, but there's no general sentiment to either side that should prevent you from playing some race. If you want to advance, you will. Nuff said.
So eh...quit yer bitchin' and play the damn game already. Really.
And in the spirit of actually having a suggestion, can we ultras get some sort of item to block out that damn sun? Or maybe let me blow it up, or some such? Thanks! Oh yeah, and seriously...There's like 3 aggro rooms in all of DK, put up drow as a suggested starting race.
Direct all flames (since I doubt you read my warning above) to one of my chat accounts listed below, or mmail me or something. If somehow you find you have a bone to pick with me for this, go ahead and do it.
Can't we all just be one big, happy, inbred family? I'll be your grandpa if you be my cousin!
Normally I'd simply observe this little debate and make no comment of my own, but a few people have directed my attention to this thread and I believe it deserves addressing.
This post is made with absolutely NO reference to any other posts in this thread (since I didn't really feel like reading them all. Jesus, you people write almost as much as I do)... so if you're thinking about replying to this post with things like "see, I said above that [blah blah blah]," you're thinking WRONG.
Furthermore, none of the material in this post is intended to be inflammatory, but somehow I get this nagging feeling that one of you wankers (that's said regardless of racial alignment) will read into it and protest against some point I didn't make.
That being said...
The simple fact is that the evil playerbase is terminally smaller than that which the goodrace characters enjoy. This is nobody's FAULT. (So quit pointing fingers, dammit.)
This may in some part have to do with the fact that the three races that are clearly suggested for new players are goodrace characters. As a helper character I've seen a goodly number of newbies who have said that they would switch to evil...if only they hadn't already established their mighty 15th-level powerhouse characters on the goodrace side. I suppose that hurts us a little. (In terms of playerbase I mean, though the emotional scarring is deep for me as well.)
I originally created as a goodie, mostly because of the "evilraces are tough to start!" warnings, to get a feel for the mud despite being intent on making my permanent characters evil. He progressed slowly and got small amounts of help here and there... In contrast, Khoric got much more help when he first started out. I'm not going to say it was because the evils were any better at helping out a lowbie, because it wasn't. The difference was made entirely by actually going out and initiating contact. There's nothing more or less difficult about being an evil, and the playerbase is still large enough that it's entirely possible to go through the levels without ever needing to get into anyone's good graces. Khoric advanced quickly, from absolute scratch and knowing nobody, and still managed to land a group for ship exp at 20th and a zone at 25th or so. Note that this took absolutely zero ass-kissing on my part (though I'll admit I don't find the taste disagreeable). And hell yes, at just short of 49th level and having zoned in plenty of places, I am still blissfully noobtastic. Seriously, did I get to where I am now because I "had connections" or because I "did everything I could to be accepted by the bigger evils" or because I "put out on the first date"? Of course not! I did what I could to advance, played with addict-like devotion, and most of all did my best to learn what things I was useful for (taking damage, for example). And that's it. Find out where you fit in. You don't have to like or be liked by everyone, you just have to figure out what your job is and do it. And maybe you can try to be nice, or at least entertaining, at the same time.
As for you others out there who have had issues starting evils: use NHC. Sometimes, evilrace helpers are looking at their screens and willing to help. I, for one, am entirely willing to take a break from nuking low-level unclassed mobs to relo to you and give you a hand past some trouble spot, provided you're willing to help yourself and figure out what's going on. (Note, I am not perfect, I am not all-knowing, I am not always in a position to help, and I am not Jack's inflamed ego.) And there are plenty of evils who would do the same. And yes, hand-me-down eq is available. And yes, there are evils taking exp groups around DK and other fun places. There's no reason to say that a new evil will get any more or less help than a new goodie. Plain and simple, evils need more players. Mkay?
[Welcome to the short version, which doubles as my conclusion..]
As much fun as we all poke at each other, evils and goodies still function in similar fashion, and there's no real reason to pick one playerbase over the other. I picked evil and I turned out fine, but there's no reason it wouldn't have turned out in a similar fashion if I'd gone goodie. Some attitudes on either side could stand for some fixing, but there's no general sentiment to either side that should prevent you from playing some race. If you want to advance, you will. Nuff said.
So eh...quit yer bitchin' and play the damn game already. Really.
And in the spirit of actually having a suggestion, can we ultras get some sort of item to block out that damn sun? Or maybe let me blow it up, or some such? Thanks! Oh yeah, and seriously...There's like 3 aggro rooms in all of DK, put up drow as a suggested starting race.
Direct all flames (since I doubt you read my warning above) to one of my chat accounts listed below, or mmail me or something. If somehow you find you have a bone to pick with me for this, go ahead and do it.
Can't we all just be one big, happy, inbred family? I'll be your grandpa if you be my cousin!
- Khoric
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'die'
You petition 'I did yesterday a few times, you missed it'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'go die some more, i'll make popcorn, it'll be fun'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'die'
You petition 'I did yesterday a few times, you missed it'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'go die some more, i'll make popcorn, it'll be fun'
I can if you ask nicely
Zuryn wrote:...Isn't there a law against letting me write that much? Someone please shoot me.
- Khor
Nah, you are really too cute for that and way too neatly scarred. Besides your voice is sexxed.
evils..
Last night an undermanned evil group did Brass with no resser to CR a squid who's DSL had died the night before.
It was 'only' Brass, and so this might seem a small thing - but alot of people in the group waited around along time for the right people to log on, to help out the squid.
The squid in question started as evil maybe 6 months ago.
Some people may have had a bad newbie experience playing evil, all I can say is that most evils do care and many will move a mountain to help ya if they can. At least that's been my experience.
It was 'only' Brass, and so this might seem a small thing - but alot of people in the group waited around along time for the right people to log on, to help out the squid.
The squid in question started as evil maybe 6 months ago.
Some people may have had a bad newbie experience playing evil, all I can say is that most evils do care and many will move a mountain to help ya if they can. At least that's been my experience.
-
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
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Cordan wrote:Heh. The statment I made IS a problem for the evil side. Look at their pbase. Look at the poll. Look at the responses. Look at what the majority of people have posted. It is a problem. It's been more than proven. And I believe my points are very valid. It makes sense if you think about it.
Just cuz a there are polls, evil ezines, and self appointed spoke's people / martyrs doesn't mean their view reflects that of the "evils".
I'm sure the "evils" would love to have a larger pbase, but if you think all evils just want a clone of the WD / goody culture with ogres and trolls and drow then your mistaken.
Attitude is half of what it takes to be an evil, so I find the notion of "fixing" the attitude problem revolting.
You made some major fallacies for being a professional debater.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
kiryan wrote:Cordan wrote:Heh. The statment I made IS a problem for the evil side. Look at their pbase. Look at the poll. Look at the responses. Look at what the majority of people have posted. It is a problem. It's been more than proven. And I believe my points are very valid. It makes sense if you think about it.
Just cuz a there are polls, evil ezines, and self appointed spoke's people / martyrs doesn't mean their view reflects that of the "evils".
I'm sure the "evils" would love to have a larger pbase, but if you think all evils just want a clone of the WD / goody culture with ogres and trolls and drow then your mistaken.
Attitude is half of what it takes to be an evil, so I find the notion of "fixing" the attitude problem revolting.
You made some major fallacies for being a professional debater.
Never said i was a professional debater, just said i did it every day as my job. But I'm not going to toot my own horn. I'm basically a consultant. People aren't supposed to like me. :) Hmm, I never mentioned having a clone of WD. Quit pointing out single comments made by people and criticizing it without reading all that they wrote. A book doesn't suck because one of its chapters did.
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