Druids, my thoughts

[Larem]

okay, if you don't know, i gots a lvl 50 druid whom i play alot. i have some ideas for the druid class that i think will help them in the long run, and yet not make them too overpower and at the same time, not useless either. i'm sure the other druids may not like this but wtf do i care!

new spell: carnivorous nature - target: person Aggro: no - adds +hit+dam to target for a short while, lil less than duration of barkskin

new spell: create nature - target: room Aggro: no - like rock to mud and mud to rock, makes room nature for a short time

new spell: summon nature - target: room Aggro: yes - like the anti paladin spell where they summon a hell hound, this spell would summon something from nature, like maybe vines that use poison thorns or maybe strangle mobs, or maybe brings a treant that dies and falls upon the mobs in the room, targets of course would be random mob in room like phantasmal tendrils, this would probably be a good 9th or 8th circle spell

new spell: natures cure - target: person Aggro: no - spell that would remove poison, might be kinda neat to see this spell be like group barkskin, where you need componets to use it, stuff from nature, or it could be just like remove poison

new spell: plant mind - target: person Aggro: no - a druid type variation of mind blank

new spell: tainted water - target: room Aggro: yes - this would make a nice 9th circle spell, area damage, calls up on various natural poisons from nature to power it, the caster throws/spits/conjurers a water type blast to fling at the mobs in the area, it causes poison effects as well as damage from inhaling the water/liquid, it would of course be non nature dependant, and non weather dependant

okay, that's enough new druid spell ideas :P now for the fun part: shapechange changes :) shapechange as is, is not only way too powerful, but it's also very lame, i sujest not only moving it up in levels, or making certain forms only usuable once a certain level is obtained like the elementalist embodys. all shape changing should give an added +max hp bonus to the druids, and +mvs, it should not however full heal the druid like it does now, some healing would be nice, but just the amount of +max hp is sujested. when changed, the druid wouldn't be hidden from the world, and could still send and recieve tells, as well as use the archeron and ooc/acc chat channels, take for example the elk form: Alurissi stands here in the shape of an elk. or maybe: an elk named Alurissi stands here. the shape change in itself would last until changed back, 1 form for each animal type/day. each form should take in to account the stats of the druid that is changing into them, and have set bonuses for each stat, like strength and agi, and dex, shapechanging should also burn mana, not be free.

mammal:

elk: this is the highest mammal form a druid can obtain, in elk form, the druid has various attacks, "ram" which is like a charge, "kick" which does decent damage, the druid can cast up to 8th circle spells in this form, as well as able to cast moonwell, innate water walking and sense life, this form has double attack and nice +hit/+dam bonuses making it a nice malee form

fox: this form is the 3rd up for a druid chaning into a mammal, with this form the druid has innate infra/sneak, and a "fox bite" attack that does decent damage, the druid can cast up to 6th circle with this form, this form has double attack

cat: this is the second step in the mammal forms, the cat form gives the druid the ability to "scratch" mobs doing damage, and the druid can cast up to 4th circle spells, innate infra vision

squirrel: this is the lowest in the chain, when changed the druid will have the ability to "squirrel bite" which causes little damage, along with being a squirrel the druid can cast 1st and 2nd circle spells

bird: all bird forms have innate fly

raptor: highest form for bird shape, this form has double attack and farsee innate, "scratch" attack that does damage, "flap" attack that has chance to stun, can cast up to 8th circle spells as well as moonwell

hawk: 3rd up on bird form, double attack, farsee, infra innate, "claw" attack does decent damage, can cast up to 6th circle spells

crow: this is the 2nd up in bird forms, special attack "caw" a vocal attack that does damage by hurting the mobs ears, can cast up to 4th circle, innate farsee

robin: this form is the lowest for the bird forms, special attack "peck" does little damage, can cast up to 2nd circle spells

reptile: all reptiles can travel over water w/o boats or spells

crocodile: highest form, has "tailsweep" trips mobs or just mob fighting, "bite" does nice damage, can cast up to 8th circle as well as moonwell, innate wb, infra, sense life

turtle: 2nd highest form for reptile, "snap" attack does fair damage, innate wb and double attack, cast up to 6th circle

frog: 2nd up form for reptile, "frog kick" skill does damage, has innate sense life, cast up to 4th circle

snake: lowest form, "snakebite" skill that does little damage, can cast up to 2nd circle

fish: all fish innate wb

shark: best form for fish, double attack sense life infra, "charge" attack rams mobs and has chance to stun, "bite" does nice damage, can cast up to 8th circle as well as moonwell

piranha: 3rd best form, has double attack and infra, "rip" attack does damage by ripping flesh from mobs, can cast up to 6th circle

trout: 2nd up form, "tailwhip" does damage, can cast up to 4th circle, innate sneak

pike: lowest form, "bite" attack does damage, can cast up to 2nd circle

i'd also like to see treants last like elementals when tog'd or owner voids/rents out, of course the chance to be summoned aggro would be nice too.

just some of the things i think would make druids better, and more fun to play, feel free to bitch at me now

larem larim alurissi cah

[Larem]

ehehehhehe, oh yeah, make doom not miss when drag'd :P

[gimaki]

new spell: carnivorous nature - target: person Aggro: no - adds +hit+dam to target for a short while, lil less than duration of barkskin

Not much of a point in the current melee setup, and the last thing hitters need is to be more reliant on casters.

new spell: create nature - target: room Aggro: no - like rock to mud and mud to rock, makes room nature for a short time

Too powerful imho. The damage on fire seeds should be downgraded in !nature, and the damage on flame blade upgraded.

new spell: summon nature - target: room Aggro:es - like the anti paladin spell where they summon a hell hound, this spell would summon something from nature, like maybe vines that use poison thorns or maybe strangle mobs, or maybe brings a treant that dies and falls upon the mobs in the room, targets of course would be random mob in room like phantasmal tendrils, this would probably be a good 9th or 8th circle spell

Do we need more area damage spells? If this was a longer term spell that reduced the combat effectiveness of enemies it would be intresting. Like a room entangle spell.

new spell: natures cure - target: person Aggro: no - spell that would remove poison, might be kinda neat to see this spell be like group barkskin, where you need componets to use it, stuff from nature, or it could be just like remove poison

Druids should have had this a long time, kinda silly not to have remove poison.

new spell: plant mind - target: person Aggro: no - a druid type variation of mind blank

Self only I would agree and make it not as effective as MB, too powerful for casting on others.

new spell: tainted water - target: room Aggro: yes - this would make a nice 9th circle spell, area damage, calls up on various natural poisons from nature to power it, the caster throws/spits/conjurers a water type blast to fling at the mobs in the area, it causes poison effects as well as damage from inhaling the water/liquid, it would of course be non nature dependant, and non weather dependant

We really have plenty of area spells, the lower level ones just need to be increased slightly so there is a reason to cast them in certain situations.

[Gurns]

Lilithelle solos lvl 40+ zones, and Larem thinks druids should be made more powerful?

[gimaki]

Actually she solo's 45+ zones, but its with her Ele not druid;).
Druids are plenty powerful, some logical spell changes would be nice thou.

[Gura]

since u mentioned shapechange...how about u remove infra all the shapes u change into

[Larem]

i fail to see what someone does as an influencing factor, just because you say Lilithelle solo's zones doesn't mean she does, nor does it mean druids are too powerful, it is just you talking out yer anus, i know for a fact that most of her soloing comes from elementalist, not druid :)

[Gurns]

i fail to see what someone does as an influencing factor, just because you say Lilithelle solo's zones doesn't mean she does, nor does it mean druids are too powerful, it is just you talking out yer anus, i know for a fact that most of her soloing comes from elementalist, not druid :)

Ah, silly me. I hear people talking about "Lili did this" and "Lili did that" and assumed it was the druid. Partly because she does amazing things in any char, so why not the druid? And partly because, had I been giving credit to heroic deeds, I would have used the name of the actual PC doing them. *sigh* Another great story, ruined by the facts.

To make my point in a different way, then. To me, it seems that druids already are a relatively good class, in terms of power, usefulness, and variety. The suggestions you make would enhance the power of the class, especially the offensive power. So if druids aren't already a good solo class, your suggestions seem designed to make them one.

[moritheil]

I feel that I should point out for the sake of accuracy that shape change does not fully heal you. It heals some portion of your hit points.

[Dalar]

well yea, lili can do alot of things solo, but imho it's usually b/c the area god who made the zone didn't think thoroughly enough about how the zone can be twinked. i wouldn't go crying lili's name everyone suggests an elementalist/druid upgrade.

[Gurns]

well yea, lili can do alot of things solo, but imho it's usually b/c the area god who made the zone didn't think thoroughly enough about how the zone can be twinked. i wouldn't go crying lili's name everyone suggests an elementalist/druid upgrade.

How else are we going to judge, except by the best player? You can't base it on the average player. Average player skill fluctuates too much over time. More importantly, the average player doesn't show you what the class can do, what the potential of that class is. So you have to base it on the best player of the class. And if that means downgrading a class, and average players can't cut it after that, too bad. That just means they aren't playing the class right, not that the class is too weak.

So you do have to judge druids by what Lili can do, and, looking at a different thread, judge troll warriors by what Gura can do. Exactly because they're the best. Because theoretically, any player of that race/class could approach their capabilities. Skills can be learned, equipment gotten, reactions honed. I wouldn't necessarily expect anyone to equal them. But a good player, dedicated to the class, dedicated to trying to be the best he or she could be, should be able to get close, much closer than the average player. So that is what defines the class.

And I think you have to take the mud as it is, too. Unless there is some indication that the gods are going to take away all the little things that players know how to do, that make zones easier than area creaters may have intended.

[Ambar]

I think Alurissi needs to learn to HEAL in battle when he is the only healer .... before he gets new spells

[Delmair Aamoren]

I agree, and disagree to gurns statement that the best example of what a class is capable of is the best player. yes this is the complete upmost of what one can do. This, however, is neither typical, nor even uncommon.

Gura has TONS of experience here, and prettymuch the best set of gear you can get, including a few items that are extrordinarily rare, and at this current juncture in the muds life, are unavailable to those that do not have them.

Not many of the players here have the same experience, and with that experience, the learned skill of players like lili and gura to name a few.
My argument is that it's not all about the class and it's abilities. it's how you can use them. we cant expect everyone to perform to the same level as lili and gura. period. therefore, they are NOT the best example of the class. the best example would be someone considered a "good" player, with a good amount of experience, and "good" eq. typical of a 50+ player with say, 40+ days ptime. There are far more people that fall into this category, and would make a better sample of each class.

And to sum it up, yes, some changes need to be made. Some races are just better suited towards some classes, thats the way it is. Not everything is balanced, nor will it ever be as far as i can tell from what the past has taught us. Melee as a whole needs some fixing, i think it's premature to define the problem between goodie and evil tanks.