Success XP

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Demuladon
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Success XP

Postby Demuladon » Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:28 pm

As I understand it xp is gained 5 ways at the moment:

-damage xp
-heal xp
-mob death xp
-stone/scale xp (eg. stone absorbs damage which becomes xp for caster of stone)
-tanking xp (not sure of this - on mob death i think tank gets extra reward)

Question: Why should some skills/spells produce xp and other skills/spells not?

Which leads me to an idea:

Reduce Mob XP and add Success XP

Reduce Mob XP hard, and then reward xp for "doing things successfully".

ie. for all classes, a (small) amount of xp is rewarded everytime you successfully use any skills or spells.

Non-combat skills/spells - you would gain this skill/spell xp every time a skill or spell was used/cast successfully.

Combat skills/spells - you would gain the skill/spell-xp every time a skill or spell was used/cast successfully no matter what mob you fight, as long as it was within 5 levels of your level.

eg for Caster
For example, an enchanter scales/stones/blurs/globes/hastes etc *alot* of times during a zone - they should be rewarded some xp every time they cast a spell successfully.
eg for Melee
Every time a melee type got a parry/rescue/bash/etc off, give some xp.


Notes:
(i) By reducing mob xp hard and moving xp to skills/spells success you reduce the possibility for power leveling.
(ii) The xp given by successfully using skills over a characters career might add up to say 50% of total xp (mob xp giving rest).
(iii) XP zones become less useful since half of xp comes from skills/spells being used successfully.
(iv) Botting xp would be possible under this system. It's possible to bot xp under the current system. Botters would be hunted down and killed.
(v) Think of this system in terms of driving a car. I learnt to drive a car say 15 years ago (gaining xp as i learnt). Now even though I have driven a car for a long time, everytime I go for a drive I become a more experienced driver (gaining more xp), and with more experience (xp) there's less chance for crash (spank!).
Delmair Aamoren
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:43 am

I like the idea. Good show
Ambar
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Postby Ambar » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:33 am

something that has always bugged me is haste ...

how fast rogues level when *I* cast the haste .. i should get some part of that :P

and yes i will always haste you cause it looks so pretty, all the slicing and dicing
"When a child is born, so is a grandmother."

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rylan
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Postby rylan » Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:39 pm

Clerics would never get xp with this.
Areandon
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Postby Areandon » Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:49 pm

As I read it clerics would get tons of xp:

xp for vitting
xp for healing
xp for other spells
xp for hitting

Only thing is that heal xp if lousy compared to kill xp. I think the idea here is to reverse that, so that a cleric that vits and heals his ass off gets more xp than the leeching one. Seems like a good idea since this favors people who do their job well.

I really like this idea. It's brilliant in its simplicity.
gimaki
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Postby gimaki » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:16 pm

I like the principal, but this would be extremely hard to balance, and you could twink its like crazy.
rylan
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Postby rylan » Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:00 pm

Yes it would be amazingly twinkable if you got xp for casting or using skills out of combat.
I said clerics wouldn't get xp because I was only thinking about the in-combat scenario, as I don't think out of combat xp is realistic. During xp groups, clerics rarely are healing because you have a chanter, and they don't cast much offensive because their offensive spells generally suck and when you'd leave the room to repray odds are the tank will need a heal then.
Demuladon
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Postby Demuladon » Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:51 am

This system would reward people who do "things" successfully and penalize those that do nothing.

Current XP system : a cleric is in an xp group where healing isn't really required (ie. chanter is stoning so heals not needed). The cleric is getting no xp from healing, little xp from damage (since his damage spells do little damage) and a some xp when mob dies.

Under the "Success XP" system i suggest - the cleric would get xp everytime she did something successfully eg land a curse/silence/damage spell/armor spell/bless spell/vit spell/meditate etc. On top of that add the existing heal/mob/damage xp. ie. the cleric would get more xp for helping the group than they do now.

Now in terms of twinkability - I agree the "Success XP" system could be twinked by afk/botters. But how is that different to the current xp system being twinked by afk/botters?

Under the "Success XP" system the group member who was afk not contributing would only get mob xp and so be punished for being lazy.

Now if, say a rogue decided he wanted to practice pick, sure he would get a small amount of xp everytime he successfully picked a lock. But he would be leveling *many* times slower than if he was in a group getting the damage xp and mob kill xp.

In terms of out of combat xp not being realistic - I really don't see why this is the case. I *really* think an enchanter or cleric spelling up a 15 man group before a large fight should get XP for it, even though it is "out of combat".

Edit: what I'm trying to say is - if you are doing your job you should get xp for doing it successfully. At the moment those who's job is "damage" are well rewarded xp-wise, while those who's job is eg. "die for us" or "spell us up" or "silence that mob" are less well rewarded.
Delmair Aamoren
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:51 pm

Agreed the xp/success idea is a good one. Would definately reward those
that are actually doing somethin to benefit a group, vs those that just
sit back and look for death exp. And currently, the fastest, cheapest,
and most productive way of getting exp is damage. This fact screws over
our clerics and enchanters. I REALLY like this system, and if twinking
could be somehow kept to a minimum, i am all for it getting implimented.
Birile
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Postby Birile » Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:31 pm

Without making a judgment as to whether this system is better or worse than the current system, a few glaring flaws pop out at me that I feel compelled to mention:

1. Woot, exp every time I complete a verse of my songs! 1w (DK fountain) here I come!

2. Woot, exp for afk sneak/hide practice!

3. Woot, exp for making a trig to assist the tank in battle and hit hit hit!

4. Woot, afk exp for botting goodberries/rations!

Aside from #4, this system would still unfairly benefit hitters over casters because hitters' skills are more reflexive (or trig friendly) than casters' spells (you actually have to put finger to keyboard there).

I DO agree that is sucks that some classes don't get exp for some of the things they do (hey, an enchanter hasted that rogue, why don't they share in the exp? what about vitality exp? death pact exp? etc.) Of course, no one should complain about haste exp more than a bard who HASTES THE ENTIRE DAMN ROOM and is only helping OTHERS get damage exp, but whatever. :twisted:

Just some thoughts!
Demuladon
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Postby Demuladon » Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:44 pm

Birile those are all good points.

The way I see the "Success XP" system working is that each class would be statistically examined to see how many skills/spells a "busy" person playing that class uses per game hour while zoning, then appoint xp to that classes skill/spell set that would yield say, 5% of "Success XP" per game hour.

For example: things a 50th level enchanter might do in 15 man group, in a zone, for 1 hour

assume 10 big fights per hour

Enchanter spells cast for 1 fight

outside combat
everyone gets stone/scales per spell up = 15 spells
2 rogues globe/haste = 4 spells
2 tanks are blurred = 2 spells
so outside combat total = 21 spells per fight

during combat
3 scales/2 pwb's/2 constrictions/3 prisms/2 blacklights = 12 spells per fight

Total for 1 fight = 21 + 12 = 33 spells

10 fights per hour = 33 x 10 = 330spells per hour

330 mem'd spells = 0.9 x 330 ~ 300 successful meditates
and say 300 successful quick chants

total successes = 330 +300 + 300 = 930 successful skill/spell uses in 1 hour of zoning

So the "Success XP" granted might be:
5%/930 = 0.0054% per skill/spell success

or 1% of "Success XP" would take 186 successful spell/skill uses


This is my guesstimate for an enchanter - real numbers might vary.
(apologies to chanters that work harder than this!)


Edit: removed bard example.
Last edited by Demuladon on Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:55 pm

It might work IF there were a maximum amount of experience you could get from using your skills per level. Otherwise the lazier ones would never leave their mountain of waybread, even for greener pastures and fruit-filled cookies.
Demuladon
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Postby Demuladon » Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:06 pm

That's a great idea Ashiwi - I think it eliminates the types of twinks Birile talked about.

Limit the success xp to a maximum of 50% each level - until 50th where success XP becomes unlimited.

So for levels 1-49 50% XP per level can come from "Success XP" and the other 50% comes from "traditional XP" stream.

So if you bot the success xp 50% there is no benefit - since you eventually need to get out and fight anyway to get the other 50%.

ie You are better off getting both types of xp, Success XP and Traditional XP, at the same time.
Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:09 am

I think it would throw tables out of align. If you want to balance the fact that people get exp for different wierd skills and things, just remove all bonus exp and make you only get mob kill exp? Wouldn't be twinkable, would make tables easier to calculate. With a system where you get exp for skills, would be such an admin headache cracking down on afk people, you would get exp for awareness / clerical spell knowledge? How would you decide what skills are exp worthy? active skills? ATM I don't really see a problem with the levels of exp between dif classes, chanters are hard, but they still pwn and are definately worth making!

I stand firmly by "Upgrade Trhopy, Downgrade Exp Tables!"

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