Character Creation/God Approval

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Kelzen
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Character Creation/God Approval

Postby Kelzen » Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:10 am

I tried to create a character tonight and, due to the time-zone that I usually play in, no gods were on to approve/disapprove of my character. I understand that the player base predominately comes from the U.S. and that creating a character during the peak times will almost guarantee a god response. However, for those of us in other parts of the world, a lot of the time we play is when no gods are on (or at least visible). Thus, trying to create a name-preferred character (as opposed to auto-generated name) is a non-event. Is there another way to create a character (with a name we prefer) without having to wait all night (currently over 2hrs) for god approval?

In light of recent discussions about attracting new players, I wonder if this has any impact on potential new players wanting to check out the mud. If I rolled a character with, what I think are, pretty cool stats, then I really want to stick around and see that character created. Some may argue that stats aren't the be all and end all, and that eq can help overcome any stat deficiencies. A newcomer to the mud will not know that. Sure I *could* setup a tick timer to ensure that I don't get idle disconnected. But again, I don't think MUD newbies are going to be aware of this information.

Some muds have a timer that, if no gods respond within a certain amount of time, allows the player to continue into the game. My understanding is that the main reason not to accept a new character would be if the name is unacceptable. With the decrease in number of characters being created (my assumption here), surely sorting through a list of characters that were auto accepted in the past X hrs would not be too time consuming.

As it stands, my ISP kicked me out and I have lost that character.

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Postby rylan » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:38 am

I agree with this, there should be something telling you to pick one of the generated names that is auto approved, since you can have a god change the name for you later.... or have it auto approve if there aren't any gods on after a certain amounf of time.
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Postby Vahok » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:46 am

150% agree. Seems to be a simple thing, but if you can't even get the name you want, why would ya play the game?
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:18 am

Could a list be made and checked against automatically of inappropriate names?

The process could be automated to a certain extent basically, with an imm just checking on it later.

Just automatically decline any name which contains a number, an existing word or a famous character name based on this list. Any name which gets through would be ok'd later on by an imm. That might even give us a better system than we have now, since I have seen names of famous characters get through on occasion. (I think a remember there being a Gohan at some point, who is a main character in Dragon Ball Z.)
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Postby Ambar » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:36 am

there was (is?) a HUGE disclaimer that tells you to select an auto-generated name if no immorts are on at that time .... then after the character is made, petition later on for a name change

it already exists as far as i know
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Postby fotex » Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:37 pm

Sarvis wrote:Could a list be made and checked against automatically of inappropriate names?


No, because people would just find ways around the list to get the name they want. Coupled with Murphy's law, imms would never be on to be able to force that char to rename to something valid. And can't just rename a char without the player logged on as he wouldn't know what it was renamed to. Nor would an imm really want to pdelete someone without their notice.

As such, people just use the autonamer to try to get naughty names. Seems like the lesser of two evils.
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Postby Shar » Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:26 pm

Ambar wrote:there was (is?) a HUGE disclaimer that tells you to select an auto-generated name if no immorts are on at that time .... then after the character is made, petition later on for a name change

it already exists as far as i know


This is the case.

If there are no admins on to approve or decline the name, the player inside the roller gets a message saying so.

If we were to allow names to go unchecked, *most* players would select an appropriate name. There are those out there who would abuse this and roll characters with unacceptable names and plevel them as quickly as possible to create drama. This already happens with the name generator. It is the minority, but it does happen.

I'll discuss this issue with the other admins and see if we can find a middle of the road solution.

:)
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:34 am

Fotex:

The list is just a first buffer against bad names, with hte imms checking up on it while they are on. Pleveling to keep a name would be an issue, but if they record time since creation any drama could be ended by saying "this char was created yesterday."

The imms would just later on, when they are around, talk to the person if their name slipped through somehow. Just like we do with the random name generator now.


Shar:

It strikes me that the two main problems during creation are:

A) There is no way of knowing whether an imm is online or not during creation.
B) If you give up the name generator in favor of your own name, you end up stuck permanently at the approval.

Therefore, I think the quickest possible solutions would be:

A) Have the creation sequence check for imms and let a player know if any are on, and if they are AFK or not.
B) Make it so you can go back and take a random name even if you had tried your own name first. In other words make the name generator available during the actual approval process.

Either of those would certainly mitigate the problem...


Of course, the list idea could work too... but it would take longer to implement.
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Postby Ambar » Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:33 am

Sarvis wrote:There is no way of knowing whether an imm is online or not during creation.



the big, red disclaimer saying that there are no immorts online to accept new player names is there .. plus i THINK(?) it tells you noone can accept the name when you TRY to make your own ..
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:08 am

You can also exit the name acceptance queue and go back to namegen at any time, and it says it very clearly..
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:19 am

Heh... my bad. Guess it's been a while since I used the character creator...
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Postby Kelzen » Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:00 am

I was fully aware that at any stage during the god-approval wait, that I could go back to the name generator and select a name. I was not aware, however, that having selected an generated-name I could simply petition for a name change after the event. Perhaps a one-liner in the wait process text would clarify this for others.

Additionally, I did not receive a message about no gods being on to approve my character. Perhaps that was because there actually was a god on, and, for whatever reason, was unable to approve my character.

In any case, a statement concerning the ability of a player to have a generated name changed by a god at a later date would solve the problem.

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Postby fotex » Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:52 am

Sarvis wrote:The list is just a first buffer against bad names, with hte imms checking up on it while they are on.


First of all, the point of this is list is for when imms are not on.

Secondly, do you have any idea how large such a list would be? You've got to include invalid illithid, troll, gnome names, out of character names, unwanted English words, etc. Since you volunteered the idea, go ahead and start building it...

[dramatic pause]

Now that you've built a partial list, can you also see how easy it would be to get around it? User inputs a bad name? Darn, user tries again till he succeeds.

Or, you implement a maximum number of name selections. User complains because he runs out of chances to rename his char. Headache/complaint ensues.

Sarvis wrote:Of course, the list idea could work too... but it would take longer to implement.


Yes, and as anyone can tell you, it's not worth the effort.
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Postby Ambar » Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:29 pm

There are names at each race selection that are suggested as bad .... also if a name has been previously tried and declined it states that when you try to use the name

Sure a statement added to the already present disclaimer might make it yet easier, but usually when you group with people you talk ... Normal intercation might bring about the fact that a person hates the name he or she selected... Group members might then say ... "why don't you petition for a new name" ...

Or the disclaimer about the nhc thats been added in might generate the same conversation ...

I personally feel the name generator is more than adequate and allows limitless combinations of names. As you can probably surmise I rolla LOT of characters. I sit at the name generator for long periods of names trying to select a name unless I dont already have a name chosen for that character.

Once again, this is an opinion .. but .. why fix something that's not broken. I'm quite sure the immortal "plate" is very full right now with other fun projects...

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Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:54 pm

fotex wrote:First of all, the point of this is list is for when imms are not on.


True, but you have to assume that <i>at some point</i> the imms will be on.

Secondly, do you have any idea how large such a list would be? You've got to include invalid illithid, troll, gnome names, out of character names, unwanted English words, etc. Since you volunteered the idea, go ahead and start building it...



http://wordlist.sourceforge.net/

There, several word lists ready to go for ya. Guess my work is done here... heh.

Well, we'd need to add several famous character names, variations and such... and then, if a bad name slipped through the imms could ad it to the list at that time.

Now that you've built a partial list, can you also see how easy it would be to get around it? User inputs a bad name? Darn, user tries again till he succeeds.


Tries what again until he succeeds? Reentering the same name? Some variation of it? Look, we aren't talking about malicious abuse of the name system here, we are talking about new players that get away with names like LordBadass on other muds and then want to try ours out. One check which disallows LordBadass will likely get them thinking of a more proper name.

Of course, that brings up the biggest hurdle... combinations of existing words rather than just words themselves.


Or, you implement a maximum number of name selections. User complains because he runs out of chances to rename his char. Headache/complaint ensues.


I can't even imagine why you would do this. If a player wants to spend hours in name generation trying to beat the system, let them. Then half an hour or so later when an imm logs in they get their name changed.

Yes, and as anyone can tell you, it's not worth the effort.


Anyone? so far it's just you...
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:03 pm

But that doesn't change the fact that there's not a thing wrong with our name gen as it is now, except it could probably use a disclaimer saying that name-generated names have the option of being changed later when staff log in. Why go to all that work for what we basically already have? The name generator already spits out some pretty hilarious names, which the staff hop on pretty quickly...

I still don't know why they wouldn't let me keep "Kitta" or "Sugah."
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Postby chandigar » Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:17 pm

Ashiwi wrote:But that doesn't change the fact that there's not a thing wrong with our name gen as it is now, except it could probably use a disclaimer saying that name-generated names have the option of being changed later when staff log in. Why go to all that work for what we basically already have? The name generator already spits out some pretty hilarious names, which the staff hop on pretty quickly...

I still don't know why they wouldn't let me keep "Kitta" or "Sugah."



Or Sukok the ogre warrior *halo*
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:12 pm

Ashiwi wrote:But that doesn't change the fact that there's not a thing wrong with our name gen as it is now, except it could probably use a disclaimer saying that name-generated names have the option of being changed later when staff log in. Why go to all that work for what we basically already have? The name generator already spits out some pretty hilarious names, which the staff hop on pretty quickly...

I still don't know why they wouldn't let me keep "Kitta" or "Sugah."


There's obviuously _something_ wrong with the process, or this thread wouldn't exist.
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:10 pm

You know, i think the last post shev posted prettymuch summed up
the situation, and backed up the idea there is nothing wrong. plenty
of warning/instruction for when imms aren't on.

Want fries with that?
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:26 pm

Gee, you must be right. A potential new player, after trying to create a character and being forced to wait two hours, makes a post on the BBS trying to find some way to improve the process. But just becuase two ideas _I_ suggested were already in place, there must not be a problem and all new players must love the new process.

There is obviously something that made Kelzen feel this was worth looking at. This means other potential players are probably having similar problems, and it oculd be one small reason for people to move on to another mud.

I guess we should jst ignore things like that, however, since our current pbase is so incredibly strong. :roll:
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Postby Mitharx » Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:08 pm

I couldn't read any of the last post. The ol'sarcasm filter was on high and it must have been steaming with it.

Anyway, I agree that the process is pretty much okay. I didn't learn you could get your name changed at any time until later. I suppose that should be added, but that's about it as far as I can tell.

I really hope this isn't a major problem when it comes to getting new people to play here. I didn't think the process was that hard. BTW: Please don't respond with "but it could be easier" or "it's not that hard, but if we lose one or two people then it needs to be changed." I've already considered those and agree that the name disclaimer thing should be added, but beyond that it's a great system.
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:12 pm

Sarvis wrote:Gee, you must be right. A potential new player, after trying to create a character and being forced to wait two hours, makes a post on the BBS trying to find some way to improve the process. But just becuase two ideas _I_ suggested were already in place, there must not be a problem and all new players must love the new process.

There is obviously something that made Kelzen feel this was worth looking at. This means other potential players are probably having similar problems, and it oculd be one small reason for people to move on to another mud.

I guess we should jst ignore things like that, however, since our current pbase is so incredibly strong. :roll:


No actually i just goes to show how little people read. How often do you notice the motd has been updated?
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Postby Shar » Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:52 pm

Oh my gosh. People will argue about anything :) We'll take a look at the char-creation messages to see if there is anything that can be updated.

p.s. Just because there is a thread on a/this subject by no means suggests that the topic in question is broken.
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Postby Vahok » Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:31 pm

The only thing Shar is the disclaimer is a little wordy (of course it has to be), but maybe at the very start of it have the different senarios clearly listed? It may sound stupid, but why do you think business have opening hours all over the place? Because, people are dumb and can't read.

Put it at the beginning, the end, the middle if needed...for the few moments it takes, it could be worth while.
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:39 pm

Shar wrote:p.s. Just because there is a thread on a/this subject by no means suggests that the topic in question is broken.


That's the kind of logic that's made rangers such a great class for the last 8 years...
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Postby Shar » Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:12 pm

Sarvis, if you believe that every issue every mortal posts on needs to be "fixed" to the liking of the players, you are wrong. Thus my statement that not everything people post on is broken. This topic is not a topic on rangers, mkay? thanks.
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Postby Salen » Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:10 pm

Better yet, get rid of the option for self-selected names. Put a notice that you can petition afteryou are in game for a change. Getthe character accepted, then getthe name changed. Easy enough.
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Postby Gura » Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:28 am

Shar wrote:Sarvis, if you believe that every issue every mortal posts on needs to be "fixed" to the liking of the players, you are wrong. Thus my statement that not everything people post on is broken. This topic is not a topic on rangers, mkay? thanks.


are you implying that everything people post about rangers being broken is true?
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Postby Shar » Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:40 am

How you got that from what I said is beyond me. This thread is not about rangers, but they are broken. Everyone knows that.

You have a playful habit of being the wise-comment maker. It is kindof old, but if you want to continue the game, I'll play. You know I love you, Gura :P

Back to the topic at hand, I have the files in question for the new char creation messages. I'll review them (like I said I would) and see what can be done.
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Postby Shevarash » Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:57 pm

You guys are too much sometimes. Did ANYONE bother to check the creation messages before posting about them? Heh.
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Postby Sarvis » Sat Apr 03, 2004 5:26 pm

Shevarash wrote:You guys are too much sometimes. Did ANYONE bother to check the creation messages before posting about them? Heh.


Yes, I did. Granted, I didn't read everything carefully when I looked... but I missed anything saying that I could restart the random name generator after I entered the approval process.

I'm pretty sure there were gods on when I tried, so I didn't see any bright red disclaimer saying none were on obviously...
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I've run into this problem before

Postby Abbayarra » Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:01 am

As I just said, I have lost a really good roll before because of no gods being on. Yes, I did see the disclaimer, and no, it did not sink in until I had sat for a long time. The only solution that needs to be done is a way to back out of the name that needs approval and a way to go back and choose a prerolled name so you can save a really good roll.

Tom
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:25 pm

Abba Zabba, you are my only friend!

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Re: I've run into this problem before

Postby chandigar » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:24 am

Abbayarra wrote:As I just said, I have lost a really good roll before because of no gods being on. Yes, I did see the disclaimer, and no, it did not sink in until I had sat for a long time. The only solution that needs to be done is a way to back out of the name that needs approval and a way to go back and choose a prerolled name so you can save a really good roll.

Tom


Uh, you guys realize theres always been a line that says you can hit 0 while waiting to go back to the namegen right?
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Postby Sarell » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:24 am

nogs namegen is cool, just like to add that, since it was seriously HARD to find the right time to make a char from australia a few year back heh, add a line saying that you might be able to change a generated name inside the game? and remove rangers from class selection and everything is dandy! :)

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