Increase guild fees tenfold

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Stamm
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Increase guild fees tenfold

Postby Stamm » Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:57 pm

So that a guild with 25 members pays 50K plat a month.

A guild with 30 members pays 100K plat a month.

As I see it there are fifteen guilds listed.

There is only one functional guild.

The rest vary from dead guilds, to groups of inactives, to groups of people who can talk to each other on acc.

If guild fees are increased drastically then being in a guild will be worth something again, because unless you're in SoI then your guild means little.
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Postby Stamm » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:16 pm

Some more thoughts.

A guild with 25 members pays 2K per member per month.

Forming a new guild would cost 50K.

Now, before you go saying that my idea penalises new players.....


Right now a new player cannot join a guild, all they can join is one of the 14 non-functional guilds that exist. And what good is that to them?

My way they can join a guild if they are willing to carry their weight. 2K a month isn't much.

And the short/long term effects of what I suggested?

Short

Dead guilds such as EU. NS and DB etc would be removed quickly.

SoI would most likely boot inactives down to 25 members.

Scions would get rid of their inactives, and I think most people looking for a functional guild would join Scions as it is the one with the most experienced and active people.

SoT would likely survive, having some good people in it, but would need to cut out some people.

HoD, a new guild would be a place for newer players to join, and as long as they pulled their weight then they would prosper. I expect HoD would demand a deposit of the first months fees in advance, to avoid having to fork out for inactive members.

As for the evil side, I'm not so sure, at least 4 of the 6 evil guilds would fold.


In the long term?

SoI would continue to prosper, but would almost certainly lose it's place as the indisputed 'best' guild. The competition for SoI would be 1 full, active evil guild, and 2 or 3 other full active goodie guilds.

In the long run this would be good for new players, and the mud as a whole as it would force the dead wood to be cut away.

In the very long term, assuming Toril picks up a larger playerbase, then players will have a guild to join that will be active and allow them to zone etc.

This is the original intention of guild fees, just the money has been adjusted to suit current cashflow.
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Postby Ihazim » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:23 pm

im not in SoI :(
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Postby Stamm » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:24 pm

Ihazim wrote:im not in SoI :(


I know, that's why I'm posting this, not everybody has the chance to be in a functional guild just now. Make the changes I suggest and everybody has that chance.
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Postby Sylvos » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:32 pm

A guild shouldn't be considered active/inactive by its zoning ability. Indeed, some of the most fun I had when I was in a guild was just the comraderie, the friendships. When my guild turned into little more than a zoning clique, I left.

I was in Imphras.
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Postby Diel » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:33 pm

Wow sounds to me like there's only one guild with the power to survive! :P




o ye of little faith.



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Postby digov » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:34 pm

Buwahaha. Its funny how sarcasm doesn't translate well into text. Oh wait...Stamm you weren't kidding were you. Thats even funnier ;)

But seriously. I think you have a slightly skewed and unrealistic view of the other guilds on the game. Giving credit where credit is due, SoI is a good guild but there are other guilds that fit the needs of other players on the game, who might have different goals and different interests. And there are also many other active guilds that have plenty of members who play frequently.

Your proposal fosters a sense that guilds must be elitist in order to exist and thats just silly imho because some people are not interested in that. They guild to have fun with friends and to enjoy the game together which does not always need to include zoning constantly to gather cash just so they can pay dues or start a guild in the first place.
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Postby Stamm » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:34 pm

Quite correct. A guild should be considered active if it does stuff together. Be it guilds, be it working on quests, be it just giving advice, or whatever.
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Postby Sylvos » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:37 pm

Without access to other guild's assoc chat, can't really judge how active they are then, by that definition Stamm. And with the ability to chat on acc as an alt, who knows how many people who are online at any given time, are logged into an assoc chat and having fun?
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Postby Shar » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:41 pm

...
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Postby Stamm » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:49 pm

I agree with all of you.

It would be a Bad Idea if people had to play the game.

Or if we even encouraged and promoted associations in which playing the game was successful.

Instead, let's have far too many half active, or dead guilds so that new players have nowhere to go to enjoy the game.
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Postby Diel » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:55 pm

What's wrong with these "half dead" guilds? :P
You're not a member of one therefore it shouldn't affect you in any sort of way. Each guild has their own way of playing the game, be it RP, EQ, or chat driven, they all still exist for some reason. If the guild knew there was absolutely no hope, then they would disband. If someone is willing to pay the money to start a guild and keep it up in the first place, they deserve to do whatever the hell they please with it :P


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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:59 pm

I've already told Stamm on acc that I didn't agree with him, but I can understand his logic behind the idea. Before everybody knocks it to hell and back again, Stamm's seeing this as one method of stimulating inter-guild competition, the growth of larger, more active guilds, and the active seeking of present guilds for more active members, offering even newer players an opportunity to participate in a stronger, more tightly knit community.

Since being part of a guild adds so much to the flavor of mudding, I believe that allowing guilds to develop in their own directions is better for our pbase, because there are so many different types of mudders who play here.
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Postby Sylvos » Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:05 pm

How do you know they aren't 'playing the game' Stamm? Maybe they've got a small group on airship, trying to do the quests while other guild members are on as their alts leveling up. Chatting away on acc. That kind of activity is invisible.

Playing the game. It's an interesting phrase to use. I play a game to have fun. Succeeding is fun certainly, but as long as I'm having fun, it suits me fine. I have a level 47 necromancer. He's got 31+ days ptime. Why aren't I 50th yet? Am I obviously not 'playing the game'? Hell, I'm sure somebody could easily reach 50th necro in what... 2, 3 days ptime? I had somebody tell me that I was wasting my time by not being 50 yet. Instead of level 50, I have a mage with only three mobs visible on trophy, and them all under 2.5%. Yeah trophy is meaningless, but I've had fun trying to xp and level in all sorts of different places.

I've got a level 49 cleric too. He's been level 49 for longer than I can easily remember, well over a year. Or maybe that was 48 and level 49 has only been 6-9 months. I don't remember, it doesn't matter. I zone with Ashemiem, you've zoned with Ashemiem, obviously I can 'play the game'. I just choose not to play it by the common rules of level to 50, zone and accumulate.

The point of all this ramble is that you can't really judge who is 'playing the game'. I"d argue the only people NOT 'playing the game' are the ones who log in and sit idle for hours on end. Nothing is forcing a player to stay in an 'inactive' guild if they aren't happy. But if the players are happy with where they're at, and they're online playing and doing stuff, grouping with or even chatting with friends over the guild channel, it's not really an inactive guild, is it?

Cause if you're enjoying your time online, and since the guilds still have their members it's obviously not bad enough to prompt action, then you're being successful at playing the game. Cause games are intended for enjoyment.
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Postby Gormal » Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:11 pm

What do you think disbanding "inactive" guilds will do for the already dwindling playerbase? The MUD has many valuable players who don't spend inordinate amounts of time playing any longer.
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Postby Sesexe » Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:19 pm

Stamm,

I understand what your gripe is and all, but do you realize in doing this you'd make newbie player guilds impossible to have for them? The new evil guild had to really scrape together just to getthe 5K to found the guild.

In making guilds so expensive, I say a big thumbs down. :(
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NOrthern Star FAR from dead!

Postby Jasix Prowlingwolf » Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:25 pm

I dont know who the hell Stamm is nor do i really care, by his stupid post about raising guild fees leads me to belive he is probably some up his own ass elitiest fool that belives mudding is all about killing mobs for meaningless rewards...

I don't agree that paying 5k for an extra 5 members is right let along paying 50K a month to 'be a guild'

But all I really care to say on the matter is....

PULL YA HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS!

My main beef with Stamm now is calling Northern Star a dead guild. I have some strong ties with several mebers of Stamm's guild as we have been long time friends and in some cases very dear close friends who would be IRL friends if distance was not such a big issue for me. If i was a member of Imphras I would be ASHAMED of you! People like Lilithelle and Ashiwi that help many others shouldn't have their good name and guild tained by your untrue slurs. You have not only insulted a my guild but your own with your unfounded ravings. I talk to serveral members of your guild probably more then you do, and I knowhow little they mud, so in your own BS your own guild would be a dead guild... I dont belive that for one second but the same crap you implied about my gang would apply to your own...

Northern Star probably has MORE ACTIVE members then any other guild, we have even been told by the gods we have a LOT more cash then most other guilds.. Which really did surprise me since we dont go out raping zones purely to feel good about ourselves with spanky eq and piles of cash.

NS has cut members down to 25 to stay under the 25 meber mark, yes we put non active members on the 'reserve bench' until they have the time or the will to play regularly. Every single one of our current mebers turns up at least once a week to play. Some of us are here nearly 24/7 in one form or another.

Nearly ALL Northern Star members play alts more then thier main guilded characters, why? Cause when there is no reboot we dont sit around 1 west playing with ourselves crying about a reboot, we go out and lvl up our alts and OTHER PEOPLE, yes we level the little peopel of the mud that don't even seem to get a reply from the high and mighty wankers that thnk Torilmud should be just for little fools that have no lives and can afford to sit on their fattening asses all day purely to zone and hunt rares soon as the game reboots, then piss off to some other place after the three or 4 zones they prefer to rape have been done.

Northern Star is a very proud guild, we dont just guild anyone that comes along, we select only nice peopel that HELP others, mostly the ones that help little folk but don't care to suck up the elitist asses for zoning. NS are a very loving caring bunch of people that make me proud to still play this silly game, i'd surely leave and not bother to return if the place was populated entirely of stuck up toolbelts that refuse to know whats going on they just assume they know... NS also consists of a lot of Americans, Canadains and Australia, we don't always play when you do... Lucky for us it seems.

So next time you wanna insult me and my crew by calling us a dead usless guild, i suggest you do some homework and see that a lot of those 'unguilded' people are prob NS guys out lvling up other people and keeping the TRUE spirit of this game alive. It's people like the NS guys and girls that help the new folks out with exp not just some kiss my boots hand me down that keep this mud alive, it sure aint the wankers that only play to zone that keep it going, they just keep themselves going...

NS has been around longer then any guild as far as I know and will be around long after you have left this place cause you have driven a rift in your own guild with stupid comments that makes you look like a tosser.

Northern Star has had more mebers then any other guild, we have many that have left the core group to 'do their own thing' and most of them have failed. NS is tronger then you think, maybe not in killing power but in spirit and close friednships.

Northern Star is not dead, not by a long shot.

Maybe if you weren't such an elitist wanker you might actually see what the REAL people and guilds on this mud do but then it's hard to see what others do when your sitting at 1 west or under the inn waiting for someone to hold your hand while you rape some poor elf or frost giant for his clothing.

The only good part of Stamm's idea about one real funtioning guild would be all the wankers could be in one guild so i could just gag the lot of them and not need to see them on the who list when i look for NICE, everyday mudders to chat with or group with.

Jazzy -= Dont take no shit from Elitist Wankers=- Northern Star :twisted:
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:36 pm

Jaz, Stamm isn't elitist and that wasn't called for. Stop being a total dork.
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*shrug*

Postby Jasix Prowlingwolf » Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:56 pm

If he isn't en elitist then why does he post like one?

NO ONE insults my guild without me being fired up about it.

I couldn't care less what his ideas are but if he wishes to say NS is a dead guild i will fire all my guns and stand up for them and put fools that think they are the ONLY real players here in their place.

I'll even retract my entire post if he takes his insult of NS being a dead guild off his.

What is uncalled for is unfounded BS about SoI being the only funtioning guild, *snort* NS is disfuntional but we put in as much time on this silly game as the wanna be heros that belive mudding is only about zoning and getting things for themselves...

If i am wrong I stand corrected, but no one is gunna insult my gang without me adding my own mindless ravings.

Maybe i should have just left it at just telling him to PULL YA HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS!.

I am a dork! but i am a dork that is loyal to his people.

If thats a crime hang me.

Jazzy
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Postby Dalar » Thu Apr 22, 2004 6:42 pm

Are we suppose to believe you're cool now Jasix? You're whole elitist wanker crusade is not only stupid, it makes you look like a sore loser. You use to be the laughing stalk of DSR, and we all know DSR was designed to be an elitist guild. Why were you the laughing stalk? You begged Folur to get in and even attempted to roll a rogue to compete with Nokie's spot in DSR. Damn, not even I would want to try doing that.

So you say your guild is hella active. Nobody cares.
So you say you help newbies and not rape zones and don't sit at 1w. I've seen you at the Morgue many times and around WD harassing me, which you've been told by admins not to do. Even if you do help newbies, so does Lili, so does everyone on NHC, so do the gods. People care, but nobody brags about it.

Your vision of the "true spirit" of the game is your opinion. To many players, it's about zoning, bulldozing zones. To some, it's about collecting the best set of equipment and optimization. To you, I assume it's socializing, leveling up, and just hanging out. Nobody is right because it's just an opinion.

Jazdak, if you even played at all, you would have known that Stamm's ideas are well... his ideas and that's all I'll say about that. :lol:

P.S. I'm not even going to bother reading your response Jazdak. This thread with its 50k guild prices was already a big waste of my time :P
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Postby Diel » Thu Apr 22, 2004 6:49 pm

wow that was entertaining :P

I'd just like to support your thoughts on think before speaking.


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Postby Gura » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:13 pm

what the hell is wrong with starting a guild of your close friends for a channel to talk on? GODs is active. We log on every night and actively make fun of you. Should i have to pay 50k for that?
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Postby Corth » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:28 pm

Heh..

There is something to be said for getting rid of inactive guilds. Being in an inactive guild tends to make people who would otherwise play the game, stop playing. If you know that when you come on at any given moment, you will have 5-10 guildmates on acc either doing a zone, or planning to, you are more likely to stay on and play. Stamm's idea is certainly worthy of intelligent discussion....

Corth
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Postby Vandic » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:37 pm

I gotta throw in my $.02 on this one, though by the time I'm done you might have enough for a cup of coffee.

Since Soj3 started up, I've been in three separate guilds, all for different reasons.

The first was by invitation, though after only a few weeks of participation it became pretty clear that a lot of us had different ideas about what we wanted from a guild, most of them in conflict with the leader. Sylvos will attest to that if he hasn't supressed those memories.

The second guild was one I helped to form, attempting to resurrect the old Wanderlust Excelsium days of Soj2. Lots of the old crew, built primarily to fuction as a social guild with "fringe benefits" of zoning and the like. At least that's how I saw it. Over the course of time, though, a lot of my old friends drifted off into the ether, and when real-life issues of my own forced me into semi-retirement, I seceded on my own.

The third guild was specifically an RP guild, where I was invited to join by another old friend. It, too, suffered from decay as people left for various reasons, and we even got to RP the dissolution of the guild...probably the most enjoyable experience I've had on here in 8+ years.

Would any of these guilds have survived on monthly dues of 2.5k per person? Not a snowball's chance in hell.

As an aside, there was a time in between guilds when I approached some folks in SoI about joining. There're a lot of people in that guild I consider close mud friends - Ashiwi, Xaril, Holnar, and more. I inquired not because of some perceived "power" I might gain by joining, but because it would have provided an opportunity for closer friendships and more frequent interaction.

So, here's the takehome message:

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IF YOU HATE LONG POSTS START READING HERE
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I love Sojourn/Toril because I still see the gods trying to make it cater to all types of players - the true newbies, the weekend warriors, and the power gamers. The day it becomes policy to de facto limit one of the most fulfilling elements of the mud (i.e. guilds) to the power gamers is the day I decide I have better things to do.
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Postby Nilan » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:24 pm

Amen, Vandic!

Nilan
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Postby Stamm » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:40 pm

As yet nobody has addressed the reasoning behind my suggestion...

Take a moment, and imagine that you are - A new player, you've asked a few questions on NHC and struggled your way up to level 25. You know your way around a little, you've travelled from your hometown to Waterdeep to meet others, and together you've trekked down to Baldur's Gate, across to Zhentil Keep, and down to the forest of Mir.

You've made a few friends along the way, you've met some people you don't think much of. Some of your peers have gone out of their way to help you, some you feel have screwed you over.

You've a good idea about what your class can do, and you have some idea of what's coming in the future for you, you're looking forward to that with anticipation. You've seen the high levels group up, and a few times you've seen what they can do. You want some of that for yourself.

Now you've noticed some of the high level groups are all in the same guild. You've also noticed that some competing xp groups are mainly in the same guild.

So where do you turn to for a guild?

You don't go to SoI, they don't take newer players.

You don't go to the other guilds, because if you do you'll find they are full of inactives, and they never seem to do much together.

Twilight Raven might have been an option once, but they're gone now.

Or how about this...

You go to a guild which has 20 members, they tell you they want a deposit before you join, so you start saving that deposit up. When you join they tell you they want 1,000 platinum every month, and when you hit level 40 it doubles, and it goes up again at 46.

You save up your platinum and join this guild, and you find that the other 20 members in it are all active.

They teach you how to xp more effectively, they show you where valuables load, and together you level up to level 46.

By now you are able to contribute the platinum needed each month easily enough, and the extra money you are putting in is being used to save up for a guildhall.

Together with your guild you do some zones, 6 months down the line your guild takes on Bronze Citadel and wins, you liked that. You work on some epic quests, and your guildmates help you out.

A few years later you look back to this point in time, when you were level 25 fondly, you think that the sacrifices you put into your guild were worth it.


Does that help anybody understand my point?
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Postby Sesexe » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:52 pm

Yeah Stamm, I saw your point before.

But that type of system would only cater to people who play this game like a 2nd job.

I can probably get 1000 plat in a month, cause I can solo HP ship and play everynight. I don't think everyone has that luxury tho.

A lower level 15 person is going to be grouped with others to rake in the cash, or they are going to spend all day buying and selling things to make a profit. In order to be a productive grouper to earn that cash, you'll have to be grouped nonstop since plats get split in most cases. And if you are going to be the next master merchant buying and selling, you'll also need to be on a lot to make the good deals and hit people at the right times.

Both leave little room for the !diehard mudder.

See my point?
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Postby digov » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:52 pm

No, because you're still taking it upon yourself to assume that every guild but SoI is inactive, which is just silly and not based on facts that i've seen you put forth.

I can say for a fact that I know the guild i'm in is pretty active on any given day. Sometimes people have their guilded chars on, other times they have on their alts accessing acc chat.
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Postby Gurns » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:01 pm

No, because you fail to explain why the fee increase leads to the desired outcome. The more likely result is, I think, just the opposite: Only guilds that spend a significant chunk of time working on money can pay those fees. Guilds either fold, or they start spending significant chunks of time raising money. Lower level players can do little to help raise money, so even fewer lower level players get into guilds. Fewer new guilds are started, because it costs too much to start one up, resulting in even fewer guild spots for lower level players.

Guilds also become the purview of the players who have significant time to spend on the mud, since they now find it hard to accept players who can only mud a couple of hours a week.

I figure you'd end up with two or three guilds on the mud, none of which would be looking for new members.
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Postby Stamm » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:06 pm

Sesexe wrote:Yeah Stamm, I saw your point before.

But that type of system would only cater to people who play this game like a 2nd job.

I can probably get 1000 plat in a month, cause I can solo HP ship and play everynight. I don't think everyone has that luxury tho.

A lower level 15 person is going to be grouped with others to rake in the cash, or they are going to spend all day buying and selling things to make a profit. In order to be a productive grouper to earn that cash, you'll have to be grouped nonstop since plats get split in most cases. And if you are going to be the next master merchant buying and selling, you'll also need to be on a lot to make the good deals and hit people at the right times.

Both leave little room for the !diehard mudder.

See my point?



A level 15 person can't be guilded.

And if you can only get 1,000 platinum a month then what on earth are you doing?

Are you making up nonsense just for the sake of arguement?
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Postby Sesexe » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:17 pm

Well I personally was just trying to discuss the topic with you, and to express a different take on it.

If you want to just start insulting me. Fine. I'll leave then. Bye.
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Postby Stamm » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:20 pm

Sesexe wrote:Well I personally was just trying to discuss the topic with you, and to express a different take on it.

If you want to just start insulting me. Fine. I'll leave then. Bye.


Bye!
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Postby Diel » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:27 pm

Just for the record, I've been playing here for well over 10 years and in that time I don't think I've EVER had more than like 5k between all of my billions of alts :P It's too much damn work!

All guilds have a different purpose and that's why there's a variety :P
Take it from the broke ass dead guilds who still like like to consider themselves a guild! :P
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Postby Snurgt » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:22 pm

THIS IS THE BEST THREAD EVAR!!!!1!1!ONEONE
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Postby Corth » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:23 pm

I think the basic point Stamm is trying to make is that zoning is good for the mud, active guilds increase overall zoning, and thus are good for the mud, and inactive guilds tend to spread the active talent over many different guilds so that its difficult to even get an active guild together... which is bad for the mud...

That didn't make much sense did it? :)

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Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Snurgt » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:38 pm

Stamm wrote:SoI would continue to prosper, but would almost certainly lose it's place as the indisputed 'best' guild.


CAN I JOIN THE "INDISPUTED" 'BEST' GUILD EVAR!!!1!1!!ONEONE
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Postby Vahok » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:41 pm

SoT would likely survive, having some good people in it, but would need to cut out some people

Well, as a leader in SoT, I can assure you this. We would survive, we have an active guild (I think, I can't be sure without seeing other guilds numbers on, etc.) and we do cut people for various reasons like any other guild. Our guild has players from all corners of the world..so, yes we aren't all on at the same time. We are a family, and rest assured, the idea of forcing my family to pay more is giving me a good laugh.

Who cares if a guild is inactive? If they pay the fees, operate under the guidelines, I say this ....ENJOY!! If you wanna buy a car, should you be forced to sell it or be taxed higher just because you don't use it the way others want you to?

SoI would continue to prosper, but would almost certainly lose it's place as the indisputed 'best' guild

And it is comments like this, which possibly added to others annoyance by this topic. This is NOT A FLAME..I respect many members of SoI but c'mon...if you was in another guild, wouldn't you find that statement insulting?

Stamm, until you see the inner working of all the guilds, I think your post has little basis. However, feel free to chat with me about SoT, and I'll fill you in on how we do things, etc. I do get the overall feeling of your post (I personally agree, "seems" to be many really inactive guilds but with alts, I could be wrong) but I think your ideas are way off.
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Postby Treladian » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:31 am

I can understand what Stamm's saying. Corth's little summary also illustrates another element of things as they stand on the mud. I remember back when association code was first implemented (actually quite vividly cause Shev flipped the switch enabling it while my group was in Avernus . . . suffice it to say, we didn't remain in Avernus very long ) and DSR, SOI, and an evil guild or two immediately were formed from people who often grouped and zoned together, with Sacred Disciples formed shortly afterwards too. Then other guilds formed and up and coming players eagerly joined them since, from their perspective, it was mainly guilded players that seemed to zone. A lot of those players wound up extremely disappointed and frustrated when a lot of the guilds weren't what they thought they would be and didn't do much together. The sheer number of guilds that popped up served to confuse a lot of players. I lost count of how many times I tried to hammer the reality of having a good relationship with leaders being more important than having a shiny title after your name into some of the lower 40 players at the time. Fewer but more active guilds probably would do something to make sure that the time any player invested was well rewarded.

However, trying to stimulate this by just raising guild fees really misses the crux of the problem. There just aren't enough players and in many ways, the mud is lacking in various areas that it needs to both draw in new players and keep some of the old ones. Even with a lot of those early guilds mainly just being social networks, more of them were visible on the MUD doing zones and large quests than the ones you see acting cohesively now. Even the ones that are active now aren't necesarily as active as they used to be. As much as I love SoI, we aren't anywhere near as active now as we used to be two years ago. One thing I've been especially proud of about my guild is that outside of the initial startup fee some of us paid when it was initially founded, we never have charged any sort of guild dues and were able to break the 1 million plat mark just by doing zones and auctioning off the excess items. The mud as a whole has died down a lot and attempting to inject life in it by artifically stimulating guilds isn't going to remedy it. For some people, their guilds are really the only reason they still hang around but that doesn't always win the battle against real life and lowering interest in the mechanics of the game. Requiring more money is just going to make some of the most experienced people on the mud just do a few hours of money runs every now and then or quit, further diminishing the pbase. That doesn't sound like it'll make the mud more active to me. The less active guilds are just a symptom of the mud as a whole IMO.
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chuckle

Postby Jasix Prowlingwolf » Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:00 am

*Chuckle*

Once again it's wankers like Dalar/Dartan or which ever cross dressing character he wishes to hang out at 1 west with make me laugh.

The main problem with Stamm's idea for one real functioning guild is it would have dickheads like Dartan in it that would just annoy half of them enough they would leave or not bother turning up.. Then once again they would just have a half guild and would still just stand at 1 west all day...

It's the smaller less organised guilds that keep this place going, it's not to 1 west wankers that only move when they have enough other power players to do something.

And yes dartan i am cool, i'm a long haired, tattooed, Jack Daniel's drining, pot smoking, loud mouth wise cracker that brings joy and silliness to a world infested with selfish snort bags like you.

You would give anything to be more like me IRL and I would give anything to never be anything like you...
Jasix Prowlingwolf

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'Defender of the Meek'
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Postby Gura » Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:36 am

Why stamm's post is bad:
1) its pointless, stupid and solves no problem
2) jasix takes the time to add his uselessness to them which proves #1
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Postby Shar » Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:16 am

Insulting people within threads is going to stop. If it does not, I will whip out the pruners and begin editing posts. Those of you writing posts simply to insult others need to reevaluate why you post or censor yourself before you submit.

This is getting out of hand and I truly dislike doing this but it is my job and I *will* do it.

Seriously, chill out or get edited with the possibility of having posting priveleges removed. It is posted as a rule of this BBS. Don't enjoy that rule? Stop posting. Your choice.

In short... *click*
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Postby ssar » Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:29 am

Gura wrote:Why stamm's post is bad:
1) its pointless, stupid and solves no problem
2) jasix takes the time to add his uselessness to them which proves #1

omg its a VICIOUS circle!
Let me off-a this ride!
mwahaha

yes Snurgt, this thread is funny.

Oh and on the topic - I'll put my vote in for no increase in guild fees across the board.
How about increase Stamm's (and only Stamm's) fee 100-fold and make it mandatory or perm-tieup him at 1w.
BEER
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Postby Gura » Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:15 am

k lets start with this one!
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby Ambar » Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:41 am

Stamm, I do applaud your reasoning, but the idea is just preposterous.

Think of the guilds as stepping stones. We have newbie guilds where people learn, then more experienced player's guilds for those who want to hone their skills. We have guilds who prefer to chit chat and those who powermud. Basically there is something for everyone, just like in the world there is something for everyone. Impressing YOUR ideas doesnt allow the growth of the mud and her children. It seems to me we'd end up with 25 powermudders and ther 100000000000 perfectly equipped alts. Noone else.

I am not a person to keep a vast bank account or a super filled storage bag. I give cash and equipment to new people. I spend time teaching new people. I spent lots of time talking to new people, showing them the ropes. By your method, I'd find myself out on the street so to speak, guild-wise, very shortly, and I have been told by some very dumb people that I am a decent player. Why should I not be allowed to be guilded even tho I don't contribute much to my guild funding?

I think other ways of inter-guild competition is on order, with the rewards being pretige or badges or something like that. Just as sporting associatiosn have different skill levels, so should guilds. Then we can introduce competitions between guilds, like Scions and GODs; SoI and OD ... something like that .. one goodie one evil ... competing for some reward ... whether the competition be who can do whatever zone with the fewest people, or who can finish a quest better, I don't know, just throwing words out ...

anyway ... peace ...

Aerisia Starshadow -Succubus - Scions of Netheril
Ambar Squish Squid - Beloved Matron - Crimson Coalition
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Postby Pril » Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:13 am

My 2 cents. I agree and disagree with Stammer.

First of all, as a member of SoT I can vouche for us being active. We lead zones, we exp, we chat, we do everything.

for the main thing now...
I think what he wants to do is good but he's going about it the wrong way. I think that there should be something more to being guilded then just tossing money maybe have people do an rp quest before you can guild them?

don't know best solution....

Pril
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Re: Increase guild fees tenfold

Postby Selzan » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:40 pm

Stamm wrote:unless you're in SoI then your guild means little.


This is about the only thing that I'm going to address, and those that know me, will know full well that this post has been heavily screened to be as diplomatic as possible.

Stamm, whatever merit your post may have had went out the window with this little comment. Here's a hint: unless you have access to other guilds' association lists, let's not form any presumptions as to how active any guild may or may not be. Right now, Scions is 90% active, though a good number of our members play their "alts" more than they play their guilded characters.

For all intents and purposes, Scions is the "active" section of Elders of Netheril. Our members have, for the most part, played together for the better part of 8+ years, and are damn proud of their accomplishments. Most of us have stuck with one another from DSR, to a variety of other "active" guilds, and now to Scions. We've been doing precisely what you chastise others for by a) keeping the guild active and b) keeping things fresh. We may not have a single leader who is on 24/7, but a single player doesn't make one "guild" anymore active than the rest.

I don't claim to know all that much about the inner workings of GODS, but I'd be willing to bet that it's damn near the same for them as it is for Scions. And Stamm, just for the record, the players in Scions and GODS can run with anyone on the MUD -- any place, any time -- so lets quit with the petty comments at people you know nothing about, ok?
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Postby Yasden » Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:55 pm

I recently took over the role of leadership in my guild, and having been one of the original members of it when it was founded, I can say that this idea isn't just preposterous, it's extremely overexaggerated.

For one...my guild has been around since pretty much day one of the association roll-out, and the most we ever managed to accumulate was 210k. Most of that my own funds over the past 3+ years, selling items outside of player auctions, etc. About 2 months ago, I took it upon myself as part of my first steps of being the new leader, to spend 100k of this money to help my guildies (most are 40+) get some better equipment. Evils, as we all know, haven't zoned much lately and I wanted to make up for that somewhat. For you to want to charge *that* much for a guild, even one that only has 15 (like mine), would not only sever the arteries that kept the guild functioning, but would leave a LOT more players stranded and left to hopefully join a "clique" that could afford this extravagant cost.

Now...if you were to say...double it, I could see it as possibly a way of getting people to play. But plat sinks aren't going to make people be anymore active than they are now, sorry to say. There's a few other steps you can take to enforce activity.

1. Mwrite the entire association, person by person (not assoc mmail), and leave them a letter in which they just need to simply respond to. Unless they are excused for RL reasons (2 week vacation, whatever), give them 3 days to respond. Then, remove them. I cleaned up 25% of my guild by doing that 2 days after I took over leading.

2. Set up a guild night, and a time. Coordinate this with your guildmates, and possibly even other sister guilds so that a zone group is nearly 100% guaranteed.

3. Make participation in forum discussion (not this BBS, but intraguild) and guild nights mandatory. People don't have to show up for *every* guild night, but if they are at least on and zoning with you at least once a week then there shouldn't be a problem.

4. Punish those who fail to comply by removing their titles, and giving them the guild's default. This got a *lot* of people in my guild moving again, because OD does take pride in their uniqueness of titles. Since assoc probation isn't working right now...it's one of the few things you *can* do, short of assoc kickout.



Granted, evils haven't been really zoning much at all lately, and I've been busy RL these last 2-3 weeks trying to get back to work and all, but if you do a "who evil sort" during primetime, you will see a lot of my guildmates on, or their alts.

Basically, what guild activity sums up to is the amount of time the individual player has available to commit to zoning, etc. Guilds shouldn't be about killing, plundering, pillaging....it should be about comraderie, having fund, and just enjoying yourself. It's not a conglomerate run by a mogul, and the Imms aren't Uncle Sam. Having to pay such a heavy tax for one of the critical elements of friendship in the game is just as bad as charging us RL money to play the game itself.

Deathmagnet
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Postby Diel » Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:51 pm

Snurgt wrote:THIS IS THE BEST THREAD EVAR!!!!1!1!ONEONE



THIS IS THE BEST REPLY ON THE BEST THREAD EVAR!!11!!@@!!one!!!ONE!!ONEone!
Hoppel ASSOC:: 'ROFL ON THE BEST FLOOR EVAR!!!1!1!oneone'



Klandan group-says 'No, I just won't group with him. Just making that clear up front.



Hibbidy tells you 'kill giant'



Twyl tells you 'I hate my life'



Don't blame me because you aren't an interesting person and have a problem finding anything to talk about.
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:55 pm

Personally, I'd rather see guilds readily available to all players, but there should be extras that should cost an arm and a leg. Make guild accessible vaults, like storage chests, that the entire guild can utilize, and give them an enormous starting cost with a hefty monthly maintenance fee. Guildhouses would be nice, too, but storage would be sweet.
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:14 pm

Okay, just had to post again to show off my new sig. All this time here, and this is the first thing I've ever thought priceless enough to quote over and over.

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