Experience Discussion and Debate Ideas

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Experience Discussion and Debate Ideas

Postby kwirl » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:06 am

I want to propose an idea and have some other people offer feedback about the situation and idea regarding experience distribution in groups.

Right now, I believe it works like the following - Mob is worth 100 xp, you kill, you get 100 xp. You group with a friend and kill mob, you both get 50 xp. Probably not that simple, but you get the idea.

My suggestion is this, you kill a mob you got 50 xp. You group with a friend and kill mob, you both get 67 xp. You get another friend, you get 100 xp. A fourth? 110 xp, 120 xp, 130 xp, etc, etc. Essentially - lets reward grouping by making it a bonus instead of a hindrance for power leveling.

Is this mud built around levelers? Are they provided vast resources to occupy and entertain, encouraging playing and sharing company? No, those things are for zones and quests, both of which are *MOSTLY* for high level players. Why then, does so much of the game's current structure discourage faster leveling, and worse, of meeting new people to do it. The new players lose the advantage of leadership from experienced players and skilled insight into game tactics.

How unbalancing would it be to promote rewards for grouping instead of punishments?

How many people justify resisting a pwipe because they hate leveling? How many people wander off to play something else because they hate leveling? They dont have time, they can't handle the monotony, etc.

It is boring, people hate it, and I know it has a value, things have been a certain way for years and years, blah blah. Times are changing, we ALL have less of it than we once did, but somehow people are expected to devote that same amount of time in order to contribute meaningfully.

How can we expect to grow when we need a type of player that doesn't exist any longer. Word of mouth games that need 40 hour weeks for a long period of time in order to participate just don't sound so appealing in a world of WoW, DAoC, UT2k3/4, CS, HL2, and all the rest of the games that work for the player that WE want, but scare off. The college or high school kid or young adult who wants to waste 2 or 3 hours a day a few days a week playing.

2 or 3 hours a day for a week, under the current xp system means that someone can play here for months and not reach zoning level. And during this time, people aren't going to be looking FOR him, he isn't useful yet. You expect him to stick around in spite of the fact that he gets no reward for his efforts that are tangible to him?

Lets discuss change for the better, change to promote and provide growth that we all want and the game needs.
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Postby Corth » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:12 am

Imho the experience system on this mud has attracted a certain type of person who would mindlessly repeat motions - voluntarily, for dozens of hours.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Re: Experience Discussion and Debate Ideas

Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:14 am

kwirl wrote:
Right now, I believe it works like the following - Mob is worth 100 xp, you kill, you get 100 xp. You group with a friend and kill mob, you both get 50 xp. Probably not that simple, but you get the idea.

My suggestion is this, you kill a mob you got 50 xp. You group with a friend and kill mob, you both get 67 xp. You get another friend, you get 100 xp. A fourth? 110 xp, 120 xp, 130 xp, etc, etc. Essentially - lets reward grouping by making it a bonus instead of a hindrance for power leveling.

Is this mud built around levelers? Are they provided vast resources to occupy and entertain, .


Daz OOC: 'for a constructive idea slandering current experience systems and offering a viable alternative that would encourage growth and leadership development'
Daz OOC: 'and its not dartan's make mud into WoW post!'

I gave the same exact idea a while back and WoW actually does this.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby kwirl » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:20 am

bah im out of context! anyway dartan, i wasnt around during the time of your last post, so sorry i didnt read every post while i was gone.

still, my post was based on situations as they stand in this game, and not how things work on another game. i dont play wow, probably wont anytime soon, i dont care for video games really.
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Re: Experience Discussion and Debate Ideas

Postby Xisiqomelir » Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:33 am

We should encourage grouping, this idea is excellent!
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:29 pm

You know, that sounds all good, but....

When you are getting 130% of the kill, and killing 4X as fast in a group of
four, leveling will be WAY too easy. Yes, definately give a bonus for
grouping. Grouping NEEDS to happen. But a bonus this large? rediculous.

EDIT:
Ever notice how Dalar's posts always end up with a reference to "this is
how it is done on WoW". Was funny at first, now just plain annoying.
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Postby Hyldryn » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:38 pm

Instead of all this roundabout experience stuff. Wouldn't it be easier to just start everyone at level 50?
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Postby chandigar » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:42 pm

Firstly, part of the bonus of being in a group is inherent to the group... more people = safer = kill stuff faster. But take those bonuses, plus what, 200% exp bonus with a large group, and theres no reason to solo or hell, even pay attention doing exp anymore.

You think its bad now with lvl 50 noobs? Imagine what will happen when someone can join a group of 15 in DS and not do a thing while getting huge amounts of bonus exp.

At the MOST I think a group should get 100% experience, but I think somewhere closer to 80% is more realistic.

Now, the core of this idea definitely has some merit.. what if exp was set to be say, 90% full exp for groups up to 3 people, then drops off sharply after that? You'd get people grouping for faster exp (faster kills + safe + more exp per vs old system with 3 people) and it'd be a small enough group that people still have a chance to learn their class while playing.
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Postby Corth » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:51 pm

Hyldryn wrote:Instead of all this roundabout experience stuff. Wouldn't it be easier to just start everyone at level 50?


Yes.

Either you know how to play or you don't. The only thing that level 50 indicates, on its own, is that the person who obtained it has the capacity to perform mindless and repetitve motions.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:26 pm

Does this mean there's no horny gene?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Sesexe » Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:41 pm

Corth wrote:
Hyldryn wrote:Instead of all this roundabout experience stuff. Wouldn't it be easier to just start everyone at level 50?


Yes.

Either you know how to play or you don't. The only thing that level 50 indicates, on its own, is that the person who obtained it has the capacity to perform mindless and repetitve motions.


Wasn't this one of the reasons to downgrade exp zones when we had that discussion a while back?
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Re: Experience Discussion and Debate Ideas

Postby kiryan » Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:52 am

kwirl wrote:Right now, I believe it works like the following - Mob is worth 100 xp, you kill, you get 100 xp. You group with a friend and kill mob, you both get 50 xp. Probably not that simple, but you get the idea.

My suggestion is this, you kill a mob you got 50 xp. You group with a friend and kill mob, you both get 67 xp. You get another friend, you get 100 xp. A fourth? 110 xp, 120 xp, 130 xp, etc, etc. Essentially - lets reward grouping by making it a bonus instead of a hindrance for power leveling.


This is already how it works. Try to at least know how shit works before coming to the table with accusations.

There is an exp bonus for being in a group exceeding a certain size. However, there is a perception, which empirically seems accurate, that grouping in actuality ends up being a penalty when compared over a period of time. You may get 67 exp each for killing the mob, but somehow somewhere you end up doing less exp per hour. This may even just be a problem with key classes doing less exp per hour when grouped, a trophy issue, or simply people being afk or the time it takes to organize groups, somewhere the negatives outweigh the bonuses of grouping at their present level.

kwirl wrote:Is this mud built around levelers? Are they provided vast resources to occupy and entertain, encouraging playing and sharing company? No, those things are for zones and quests, both of which are *MOSTLY* for high level players. Why then, does so much of the game's current structure discourage faster leveling, and worse, of meeting new people to do it. The new players lose the advantage of leadership from experienced players and skilled insight into game tactics.


well this is kind of a retarded paragraph, did you even try to answer your own questions?

1. more exp zones or more eq zones... obviously more eq zones
2. is there a system to transform exp into character boosting things (stats, items, abilities)... again the answer is no
3. the trend over 10 years with rare exception has been to make exp easier... Sure trophy was introduced and justice eliminated some traditional exp spots as well as the classess mob exp nerf, but stoneskin exp and heal exp was added, 1-45 was made 10% or more easier, exp zones today put exp zones of yesteryear to shame (ds, smoke, ship). Even some of the newest zones have many orders of magnitude more exp than older zones (clouds, ic2, izan is all great exp). In all, i dont think it is deniable that exp has gotten progressively easier.

4. how does making exp faster increase the exposure of new players to old players? wouldnt it just shorten the time that old players have to exp even more? I can give you some credit in that there would be more likelihood of group invites under a more group oriented exp system, however, the absolute time old players spend leveling could be significantly decreased which would translate into less group invites potentially a wash or a loss.

kwirl wrote:How unbalancing would it be to promote rewards for grouping instead of punishments?


Well depends on what you think the pbase is made up of... if you hurt solo exp to promote group exp, some older players may get pissed off and leave cuz leveling got slower (the way they are used to). If you increase the leveling rate and introduce a bunch of level 50 noobs, you may piss of experienced players and leaders cuz now they have to teach level 50 noobs how to play when they shoudlve learned mroe in the leveling process. If you make exp super easy and its trivial to have a 50 in every class, some people might leave just cuz they have a 50 in every class and nothing else to do. Hard to say, doubt anyone could draw solid conclusions.

kwirl wrote:How many people justify resisting a pwipe because they hate leveling? How many people wander off to play something else because they hate leveling? They dont have time, they can't handle the monotony, etc.


Probably not as many people hate pwipe because of losing characters as those who would hate to lose their eq. You have maybe 10 days invested in a character leveling/skill practicing, you could have years invested in eq sets.

I don't know how many people wander off because they hate leveling or don't have time to level... do you? How many people dont have the focus or ability to participate in groups because of work/family and stay because they can level up alts solo?

kwirl wrote:It is boring, people hate it, and I know it has a value, things have been a certain way for years and years, blah blah. Times are changing, we ALL have less of it than we once did, but somehow people are expected to devote that same amount of time in order to contribute meaningfully.


What expectations are these? Who set them? Are you sure you can't play this game without the same time committments you made 5 years ago? Or are you simply expecting to be at the same power level and volume of eq at a lower ptime (where would people who had 10x as much time be?). Fortunately, some people have managed to figure out how to play and have a good time on a limited time basis. Sure areas of the game are frustrating and impossible, but tell me how are you gonna design a game to cater to every single potential player scenario? I do agree that the game could use more aspects that fit into a limited time frame, however, these activities would most likely not be expedited traditional type activities and rather be new game elements that we havent seen before. For example if tradeskills were introduced a person could log on and tradeskill for 2-3 hours without interacting with other players... There are people who would get off at just accumulating wealth or mastering the powerful skill of "fishing" or sitting in wd all day trading gear back and forth trying to get incremental gains.

It is a bit ignorant to propose every facet of the game be modeled to fit into 2-3 hour blocks of time. In fact if this is all the time you have, maybe you should play a single player game based on a 40-60 hour completion time.

kwirl wrote:How can we expect to grow when we need a type of player that doesn't exist any longer. Word of mouth games that need 40 hour weeks for a long period of time in order to participate just don't sound so appealing in a world of WoW, DAoC, UT2k3/4, CS, HL2, and all the rest of the games that work for the player that WE want, but scare off. The college or high school kid or young adult who wants to waste 2 or 3 hours a day a few days a week playing.


Reasonably intelligent, however you missed the mark... The real question is why isn't leveling more fun? Is it because the emphasis is on get to 50 so you can zone? When, why, and how did Toril get reduced to being fun only at 50? Also, a bit of a fallacy suggesting that the only or the most importan factor in growing the pbase is ability to zone. Catering to a variety of players with a lot of interesting and fun elements would grow the pbase much faster than simply making it easier to get to 50.

kwirl wrote:2 or 3 hours a day for a week, under the current xp system means that someone can play here for months and not reach zoning level. And during this time, people aren't going to be looking FOR him, he isn't useful yet. You expect him to stick around in spite of the fact that he gets no reward for his efforts that are tangible to him?


Again, what kind of player are we talking about, we cant be all things to all people. Again, why isnt the process of getting to 50 rewarding in itself rather than being perceived as the work you have to do before having fun. I don't disagree that it would take forever to get to 50 at 2-3 hours a day especially considering it taking best case scenario 30 minutes to get a group, 30 minutes to recover from a mistake (getting killed or whatnot) 5-10 minutes to get to the group... There are things that could be done to reduce the time sinks in the game, but how is that going to impact the avid 80 hour a week toril player? Is it gonna make them happier, or make them go somewhere else because everything is too easy here.


kwirl wrote:Lets discuss change for the better, change to promote and provide growth that we all want and the game needs.


Why don't you start by reading what has already been suggested considered responded too before you call for rediscussion of previously stated points. You could even bump posts if you wanted rediscussion or actually had something new to contribute.
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Postby Ambar » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:10 am

as i recall several lower level (mid level) actual zones were introduced while you were gone Daz ..

mid lvl fun is so much more prevelant these days, so the push to 50 isnt what it used to be .. we are trying to teach people to learn to play/zone/quest as they level (cept me im still noob no matter what)

have you been to the new zones yet?

rolled a lvl 1 and seen Scardale and Mosswood?

then fun is out there .. find it

dont like whats out there? mebbe its time to create new fun by writing a zone ... or pwipe yourself and dont ask people for eq cause you gave all yours away

im scared to admit it but that wa s a good post, Mike .. (grin)
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Postby Vorkul Tigerclaw » Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:42 pm

Ambar wrote:as i recall several lower level (mid level) actual zones were introduced while you were gone Daz ..

mid lvl fun is so much more prevelant these days, so the push to 50 isnt what it used to be .. we are trying to teach people to learn to play/zone/quest as they level (cept me im still noob no matter what)

have you been to the new zones yet?

rolled a lvl 1 and seen Scardale and Mosswood?

then fun is out there .. find it

dont like whats out there? mebbe its time to create new fun by writing a zone ... or pwipe yourself and dont ask people for eq cause you gave all yours away

im scared to admit it but that wa s a good post, Mike .. (grin)


After rethinking...

I'd be happy to just see 46+ xp reduced. And low level 1-15 xp reduced greatly. We need to work on our first impressions, help get some newbies hooked. Even with scardale...its still rough. Look at it from a pov of someone who has bad stats, doesnt know most of the commands, and is alone.

I dont wanna see huge groups pounding xp zones down and newbies not learning their class. Or just make it so exp doesnt get worse the more peopel you add, it stays the same. I dont care what anyone says, as it is now, once you get a certain amount of peeps, the xp just gets worse and worse.

I think small random quests that teach a newbie their class is a WAY better alternative than monotonous killing. Of course still more killing would have to be done than questing but it would break some of the boring same old xp every day.
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Postby kiryan » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:50 pm

Vorkul Tigerclaw wrote:I'd be happy to just see 46+ xp reduced. And low level 1-15 xp reduced greatly. We need to work on our first impressions, help get some newbies hooked. Even with scardale...its still rough. Look at it from a pov of someone who has bad stats, doesnt know most of the commands, and is alone.


I don't see any benefit in reducing 46-50 exp. Once you've gotten that far, I don't see you quitting just cuz it takes longer to level.

Reducing 1-15 exp i suppose isn't a bad idea, but it could send some people away because they think its too easy here.

Also, I think the problem is not in the time it takes to get to 15, its in that your class between 1-15 does nothing to resemble your class 31-50. Its really like playing two different classes. Enchanters should get stoneskin at level 1, clerics should have the hps healed by their low level spells improved and bring the range down, healing for 1-7 is pure crap when you heal for 1 then have to pray for 20 seconds to heal again. or casting a cure serious and healing only for as much as a lucky cure light.


Vorkul Tigerclaw wrote:I dont wanna see huge groups pounding xp zones down and newbies not learning their class. Or just make it so exp doesnt get worse the more peopel you add, it stays the same. I dont care what anyone says, as it is now, once you get a certain amount of peeps, the xp just gets worse and worse.


You are not gonna learn your class doing exp. You will learn your class by having someone teach you. You must make friends first and pretty much this whole game revolves around relationships, bigger groups encourage people to meet other people.

Vorkul Tigerclaw wrote:I think small random quests that teach a newbie their class is a WAY better alternative than monotonous killing. Of course still more killing would have to be done than questing but it would break some of the boring same old xp every day.


sounds like a neat plan, so lets think about how this would actually work. either its gonna be faster than current exping or its gonna be slower. If it was nothing but a system of quests to get to 20, then every experienced player would just run around do all the quests and have an instant level 20 in every class. Also, you wouldnt get a lot of experience fighting, so after youve quested up to 20, youd be a lot more prone to dieing. Questing rather than killing to 20 makes sense to me seeing how your class 1-20 is nothing like your class 30-50 especially for casters. Also, id be concerned that the experience you are showing to players 1-20 doesnt reflect the experience throught the rest of the game, might turn people away because they dont want to play a quest mud (when this isnt a quest mud) and might dissatisfy players who were looking for a quest mud when tehy get to 20 and realize thats all the quests to do.
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Postby Vorkul Tigerclaw » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:37 am

kiryan wrote:
Vorkul Tigerclaw wrote:I'd be happy to just see 46+ xp reduced. And low level 1-15 xp reduced greatly. We need to work on our first impressions, help get some newbies hooked. Even with scardale...its still rough. Look at it from a pov of someone who has bad stats, doesnt know most of the commands, and is alone.


I don't see any benefit in reducing 46-50 exp. Once you've gotten that far, I don't see you quitting just cuz it takes longer to level.

Reducing 1-15 exp i suppose isn't a bad idea, but it could send some people away because they think its too easy here.

Also, I think the problem is not in the time it takes to get to 15, its in that your class between 1-15 does nothing to resemble your class 31-50. Its really like playing two different classes. Enchanters should get stoneskin at level 1, clerics should have the hps healed by their low level spells improved and bring the range down, healing for 1-7 is pure crap when you heal for 1 then have to pray for 20 seconds to heal again. or casting a cure serious and healing only for as much as a lucky cure light.


Vorkul Tigerclaw wrote:I dont wanna see huge groups pounding xp zones down and newbies not learning their class. Or just make it so exp doesnt get worse the more peopel you add, it stays the same. I dont care what anyone says, as it is now, once you get a certain amount of peeps, the xp just gets worse and worse.


You are not gonna learn your class doing exp. You will learn your class by having someone teach you. You must make friends first and pretty much this whole game revolves around relationships, bigger groups encourage people to meet other people.

Vorkul Tigerclaw wrote:I think small random quests that teach a newbie their class is a WAY better alternative than monotonous killing. Of course still more killing would have to be done than questing but it would break some of the boring same old xp every day.


sounds like a neat plan, so lets think about how this would actually work. either its gonna be faster than current exping or its gonna be slower. If it was nothing but a system of quests to get to 20, then every experienced player would just run around do all the quests and have an instant level 20 in every class. Also, you wouldnt get a lot of experience fighting, so after youve quested up to 20, youd be a lot more prone to dieing. Questing rather than killing to 20 makes sense to me seeing how your class 1-20 is nothing like your class 30-50 especially for casters. Also, id be concerned that the experience you are showing to players 1-20 doesnt reflect the experience throught the rest of the game, might turn people away because they dont want to play a quest mud (when this isnt a quest mud) and might dissatisfy players who were looking for a quest mud when tehy get to 20 and realize thats all the quests to do.


We're not an RP mud, we're not a pkill mud. So what are we? I don't know how to cater to both sides of the table fully, but I'm trying. Making quest xp and kill xp equal in all situations is near impossible as far as I can tell.

One way I see it, more killing you do, generates quest points. The more quest points= the more rewarding exp quests you can do, but also much harder. Whether they involve RP or not would have to be pre-established before the quest choosing decision is made I guess. A downside to this would be your skills wouldn't be as great as someone who has done nothing but fought their way through levels, guess more skill practicing would have to be done, dunno. This could be done for all levels as I see it.

1-15 wouldn't have to be reduced so drastically that its too easy, but atleast so that with a little effort, one could solo to 15 in the appropriate newbie zones...I don't think that's handing them too much.

46-50....its just so damn tedious. It may not bring in new players or turn them away, but its a pain to have to spend hours upon hours of xping, it doesn't teach you anything. It's just boring, not fun.
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Postby Ambar » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:58 am

Vorkul, exp has already been downgraded a LOT ... it is SO easy to level now ..
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Postby Vorkul Tigerclaw » Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:05 pm

Ambar wrote:Vorkul, exp has already been downgraded a LOT ... it is SO easy to level now ..


Whatever. When it comes to the point of just making statements without giving supporting facts, I can't argue with you. I can level pretty easily, because I have the time to spend 4 or more hours a day in an xp zone, alone, or with a voker or ranger. I can level pretty easily because I know how to solo. Sure, its a pain in the ass, to sit for 4 hours killing the same crap...but I can.

Most don't have this time. I'm sure you do, and kiryan does, and alot of the other more famous names do. Most don't have the time or patience or the even like the mud enough to sit and do something boring for that long. Iam proposing a way to break this monotony, spice things up, and make newbies think they have a chance to get somewhere when noone else for them to group with is online, which is usually the case.

Just forget it though....its a dead issue that probably won't get changed.
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Postby Ambar » Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:54 pm

shit .. time ... i work almost 60 hrs a week and take 3 classes .. with over 15 hrs per week in homework .. i have no time :P .. and the fact i am a full time mom ...i have no time :P

exp is easy

Edit: it is a well known FACT that exp Pre-lvl 46 was downgraded ..been a couple years now i think? .. i believe what happened was xp pre-46 was made 10% easier then tacked on at the 46-50 lvlvs? could be TOTALLY off-base too ...
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Postby Dalar » Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:57 pm

Ambar wrote:shit .. time ... i work almost 60 hrs a week and take 3 classes .. with over 15 hrs per week in homework .. i have no time :P .. and the fact i am a full time mom ...i have no time :P

exp is easy

Edit: it is a well known FACT that exp Pre-lvl 46 was downgraded ..been a couple years now i think? .. i believe what happened was xp pre-46 was made 10% easier then tacked on at the 46-50 lvlvs? could be TOTALLY off-base too ...

you have kids too
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Postby kiryan » Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:09 pm

>1-15 wouldn't have to be reduced so drastically that its too easy, but at least so that with a little effort, one could solo to 15 in the appropriate newbie zones...I don't think that's handing them too much.

whats the appropriate leveling rate in time per level and time to 15?

An experienced player can be pleved to 15 in 1-3 hours a new player may take 1-2 days to hit 15. How are you gonna make it easier for people who know nothing to level without making it easier for people who know everything to level?

Do we really need to make exping faster or do we need to make the process of acquiring exp more fun.


>46-50....its just so damn tedious. It may not bring in new players or turn them away, but its a pain to have to spend hours upon hours of xping, it doesn't teach you anything. It's just boring, not fun.

its also not required by the game to be 50.

What the high end game really lacks and the reason 50 is almost a requirement to zone is lack of leaders and lack of reason to do anything but the most difficult zones. If 3 zone groups are going on at a time, a 46 warrior might get grouped, but if there is only one leader who is leading ic2 and 40 players over 40 of which 25 are 50 your not gonna invite a 46 warrior unless he is your regular...

So why get to 50 faster, so you can idle in style and have 0 reason to group with anyone? Wouldn't you be more likely to leave the game after getting to 50 and finding that there is nothing for you to do because you don't get zone invites?
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby kiryan » Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:10 pm

>1-15 wouldn't have to be reduced so drastically that its too easy, but at least so that with a little effort, one could solo to 15 in the appropriate newbie zones...I don't think that's handing them too much.

whats the appropriate leveling rate in time per level and time to 15?

An experienced player can be pleved to 15 in 1-3 hours a new player may take 1-2 days to hit 15. How are you gonna make it easier for people who know nothing to level without making it easier for people who know everything to level?

Do we really need to make exping faster or do we need to make the process of acquiring exp more fun.


>46-50....its just so damn tedious. It may not bring in new players or turn them away, but its a pain to have to spend hours upon hours of xping, it doesn't teach you anything. It's just boring, not fun.

its also not required by the game to be 50.

What the high end game really lacks and the reason 50 is almost a requirement to zone is lack of leaders and lack of reason to do anything but the most difficult zones. If 3 zone groups are going on at a time, a 46 warrior might get grouped, but if there is only one leader who is leading ic2 and 40 players over 40 of which 25 are 50 your not gonna invite a 46 warrior unless he is your regular...

So why get to 50 faster, so you can idle in style and have 0 reason to group with anyone? Wouldn't you be more likely to leave the game after getting to 50 and finding that there is nothing for you to do because you don't get zone invites?
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Ambar » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:16 am

Dalar wrote:you have kids too


you didnt know??? two
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Postby Sarell » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:23 am

instead of changing the way mindless boring exp is done...


UPGRADE TROPHY DOWNGRADE TABLES

Just the elaboration for those that havn't heard me the last 23525 times.

If you increase whatever it is trophy is suppose to do it would mean you had to go to zones to get exp, so you're thinking "but hey we would never get 50 and keep it". So half the tables aswell and you would have a great game. Sure you could still get maybe 2 levels in DS to learn what you are doing. But 1-50 in 1/2 zones is just stupid and breeds further stupidity.

Oh and remove all exp gained from !kills. Solves sorting that heal/stone/damage exp rubbish out and that is why have tables for different classes in the first place.

SOLVED! :9

Any problems with this at all whatsoever? Bring em on! *touch*
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Postby Corth » Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:01 pm

Great idea Sarell. Too bad it seems that those who might implement such creative ideas have basically given up. Either that or they are very.... quiet.

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby kiryan » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:45 pm

Sarell's suggesiton has merit.

Creates a need to zone for exp where the current reason to zone for eq is stagnant.

However trophy needs some work. And as we all know you can kill 10 unique incarnations of the same mob without worrying about your trophy if the zone maker wanted to make it exp friendly.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Sarell » Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:37 am

More defined steps in fixing exp.

Perhaps if the trophy worked something closer to-
- Trophy doesn't effect <lvl 16
- You can get 100% exp, up until 5% of your total exp is from the zone
- You get 66% of the exp, up until 8% of your total exp from that zone
- You get 50% up until 10% of your exp is from that zone
- You get 0% if you already have 10% from one zone.

Then remove bonus exp from hitting/scaling/healing/etc.

Play with the tables. Look at a group of current characters, old and new, see where they would sit under the new system. Lower tables, try half to start. Lock in peoples levels or percentage of exp (whether it be 33 or 62(hypothetical level) ). You would have to either lock people at their levels somehow, or annul current trophy and run an equation to sort/lower current levels of exp depending on where you aligned the tables, or just set the tables according to current percieved levels (this might sound harsh but it has already been done once this wipe).

I think this sytem would also help out the problem that was created in getting people to level 46 faster, that being making it increasingly hard to keep level 50 without revisiting smoke/DS/just avoid any dangerous zones. People would be getting experience for zoning.

I like the way exp is split in groups at the moment. Maybe a bit less division in really large group but not too much, already people can just tag along for exp quite hapilly.

Now I'm not a very good coder, have patched in and fiddled with some circlemud bits and pieces is about it in mudding, but if you wanted someone just to come up with the basic routines / figures / numbers to make this work I think I could help out. Or as pedr most palyers I'm happy always to be approached and discuss our ideas to enhance the game in greater detail.

I think a system closer to this would be a step nearer to the spirit of the word we are dealing with - experience. What kind of experience of the game and of character, are we giving people, by telling them to sit in DS for 3 days straight then they can come zoning?
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Postby kiryan » Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:44 pm

Creating a reason to ZONE by making it lucrative exp would also make Dartan's suggestion of implementing an "Alternate Advancement" leveling system a lot more attractive and add ALOT to the high end game.

The high end game is stagnant without continual eq escalation brought on by high end zones of which only 2-3 are actually worth doing at any given time.


Removing damage exp, absolutely. Not sure I'd vote for removing heal/stone exp as it would slow down an already slow leveling rate. Ahh who cares, remove stone and heal exp, not like anyone actually gets it considering all the conditions you have to meet to qualify for it.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!

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