Sanctuary

[auslyx]

Druids, rangers, and dires get protection from animals. Mages get invisiblity, etc. How unfair would it be to have 'Sanctuary' say 4th circle for cleric, 8th for Paladins?

"SANCTUARY"
Spell.

Area of effect: <target>
Aggressive: No
Cumulative: No
Duration: Dependent of proficiency of caster
Class/Circle: Cleric 4th, Paladin 8th
Type of spell: Divination

A target affected by this spell will not be attacked by aggressive monsters of lesser level, relative to spell recipient's level. This spell will not provide protection if a monster has already been attacked by recipient.


I got this idea as I was trying to walk from Mithril Hall to Waterdeep. Those orcs and other aggressive monsters are way too hard for a low level. An illusionist had cast invisibility on me and I had no trouble whatsoever when I went that time. This spell would be similar except it only repels monsters relative to the level of player upon the spell was cast. So the 30th level cleric would be fine against a 25th level mob, but the level 10 player the cleric was helping would still be attacked, despite having the spell cast on him, due to the monster's level. Since Sanctuary is a level 1 spell in D&D, I wanted to see other's thoughts.

Also, why are clerics so lacking in offense? They can gate and other stuff (summon butt kicking demons) if I'm not mistaken in D&D. I just didn't see anything they offer except healing/protections.

[Delmair Aamoren]

Sounds like a neat idea. the only thing i would suggest adding to the verbage is probably making it 10 levels below caster, it is self only, and will not prevent mobs from assisting each other.

Example you walk into room with 1 level 50, 3 level 30 mobs. The 50 is aggro, engages you. the 30's can still assist the 50, but wouldn't have engaged you if the 50 wasn't there.

[Lenefir]

It a good idea, in fact so good it's already in the game :) Though, you might always wish for more classes to get it...


"REPULSION" "REPULSION SHIELD"
Spell.

Area of effect: Self
Aggressive: No
Cumulative: No
Duration: Dependant on proficiency of caster
Class/Circle: Enchanter 7th
Type of spell: Enchantment

This spell will create a repulsion shield around the caster. The shield
radiates a repulsion field which prevents low level aggressive enemies from
attacking the caster for the duration of the spell. The caster is still
free to initate combat though, and higher level enemies will completely
disregard the repulsion.

[auslyx]

it appears repulsion would be for the enchanter only? Wouldn't help a cleric out. I was just trying to stick with the theme of cleric/paladin having no fear of their 'lessers' due to holy fanaticism. They can temporarily imbue others with this power, but only at their level. I'm sure more restrictions could be implimented like it only working on non-evil, and I have no clue what anti-paladin's title would be for the spell, unless it were the same _or_ if sanctuary only affected oposite aligned mobs of the caster, not recipient.

[Sarell]

I can't see them getting something like this, especially not to the magnitude of level difference you are talking about. I could imagine clerics getting protection from undead perhaps, but protection from all mobs? The orcs only pose a problem to very low level players or people speedwalking who should know better in my experience, and for low level players walking from MH this spell would not help them.

If anything I'd suggest making those silly orcs !track or something, however if you are tuff enough you need to be in WD you should be able to get past the orcs.

Cleric's don't have much offense because they have such awesome hitpoints, can wear armor and have the most healing. Can't have everything or it wouldn't be a group based game.

[Birile]

I don't see this as highly overpowering, and as Lenefir mentioned, enchanters already get a very similar, if not exactly the same, spell under a different name (though I've only ever seen Lenefir use this spell and no other enchanter :lol: ). Maybe change it so this spell is a Circle 7 spell for clerics, as it is for enchanters, rather than the suggested Circle 4. Delmair's points are very valid as well, making it self-only, etc.

[auslyx]

In D&D, sanctuary is 1st circle. So how is it overpowered if it were implimented here? Even if self-only, it seems odd that a cleric is the only caster type that cannot make itself impervious to non-DI monsters. In the D&D explanation of Sanctuary, mobs totally disregard a sanc'd player.
All clerics seem to do is add a hitpoint buffer, and heal. They have no offense. I've heard that flamestrike is a joke, sometimes it can't kill super wimpy mobs. Shaman get to group heal, vit, have pets, invisibility, walk to corpses, blah blah. It just doesn't seem balanced to me. What am I missing? Plus, being a cleric seems more of a curse than an ideal class. I can only imagine the spam one receives requesting a res!

[Delmair Aamoren]

In D&D, sanctuary is 1st circle. So how is it overpowered if it were implimented here? Even if self-only, it seems odd that a cleric is the only caster type that cannot make itself impervious to non-DI monsters. In the D&D explanation of Sanctuary, mobs totally disregard a sanc'd player.
All clerics seem to do is add a hitpoint buffer, and heal. They have no offense. I've heard that flamestrike is a joke, sometimes it can't kill super wimpy mobs. Shaman get to group heal, vit, have pets, invisibility, walk to corpses, blah blah. It just doesn't seem balanced to me. What am I missing? Plus, being a cleric seems more of a curse than an ideal class. I can only imagine the spam one receives requesting a res!

This isn't D&D. Based on a similar world, but not the same. Balance on a mud is much different than balance on a tabletop or pen and paper game. In D&D you don't have 1k hitpoints as a humanoid player character.

I totally agree that clerics need something, but of the things you listed, "sanctuary" really wouldn't help them compare to the shaman. Nor will they ever be as diverse as the shaman. Their healing capabilities, and even their vit, is considerably more powerful than the shaman. They have the ability to give a spell that protects you from all the elements at one time. and... don't forget the one thing that ALL shaman are jealous of, PLANE SHIFT!

[Artmar]

All clerics seem to do is add a hitpoint buffer, and heal.

That alone is quite enough.

[Drache]

and an invoker's job is to do the oposite to mobs, yet they get invisible, they can shatter coldshield, hey can major para, move entire groups around, etc. Nobody ever said invokers are overpowered. Healing is pretty..well, extremely limited. How can someone think being a cleric is versatile? Now an enchanter is versatile...I don't think there's anything wrong with this idea, myself. Besides cleric, what's the lamest class in arena? ..just another point that they're not overpowered. Now a halfling cleric can possibly bash. That adds flash, but halflings are little anklebiting twerps. That, and their praytime is horrific. That little comic strip with the stick people says it all about halflings hehe

[Sesexe]

Nobody ever said invokers are overpowered.

Remember that Invoker who started a whole thread asking for personal downgrades, citing that the class was too powerful. Yeah, that was me.

Remember all the melee threads where people repeatedly pointed out how insane area damage is compared to melee, so they had to implement caps on how many mobs are affected by area spells, and then added limitations on only one area spell of each circle could be cast at a time, yeah.. that was because invokers are over powered.

As for the spells & benefits you mentioned.

Invisibility - All mages get this. Why single out invokers?
Coldshield - All mages get this. Why single out invokers?
Major Para - Who you kidding? This thing never lands. It lands with enchanters in zones not with invokers.
Moving Groups - You mean Ghetto wells? All mages but Necro's get this, and Illusionists do it way better.
Shatter Coldshield - Yeah it's nice, but groups are always globing the hitters anyways. They don't depend on the mob's coldshield going down by inferno, cuz half the time it's a fireshield.


Yes I believe Invokers are overpowered, but not for the reasons you're listing, and in the context you compared a cleric and an invoker, I don't feel it was an accurate way to compare the two, as you were comparing a cleric to spells almost all mages get.

[Drache]

You misunderstood. I was being cynical. Invokers die in groups ALL the time. The point was to make people see that 'invisibility' is a very common spell. Unless a mob DI's, you have nothing to worry about. The comment about invokers was not to hijack the thread. I was talking about utility. And the major para proc, btw, lands all the time on fell frost. I've para'd several dragons with it. It definitely lands. I think vokers die all the time in groups, so that justifies their power.

Sanctuary doesn't seem overpowered to me, but whatever.

The voker was just a random mage class I chose to point out stuff. All clerics do is heal ..and heal..and heal. Vokers blow shit up. It's their job. The cleric's job is less entertaining :wink:

[Sarell]

I'd suggest that over half the mud thinks invokers are overpowered.. well not overpowered but horribly unbalancing, personally I like em... anyhow, back to clerics...


Clerics do get major para in that case in a round about way VS some mobs,.... :9

Warriors and most subclasses, rogues (probably the two most popular classes on the mud), druids don't get invis, anyone can buy invis potions however. Clerics being the caster type that can't invis I don't see why is a problem, they can't stoneskin either, or gate, woopy doo, that's what makes them a different class, I really don't get the equality between classes argument that is going around, as if everyone just wants their class to be the most twinky soloist or something rather than contribute to groups and actually accomplish some high end gaming....

Because something happens in DnD doesn't really equate at all to how it will balance in TorilMUD, we are automated, we don't have a DM to pull people up for being a twink.

You're absolutely right, only elementalists, enchanters and psis should get gate!

Clerics are needed in every major group. They rock, they heal, they are the best tank healers, if you don't have them your tanks die, then your group does. The thing with clerics is this is their main function on sojourn, and they do it wonderfully. If it isn't broke don't go trying to fix it. Try making an alt instead? One of those shaman's perhaps....

If sanctuary was 4th circle you would get it at level 16. A level 16 dorf cleric shouldn't be phased too bad by the orcs north of WD. So if it was truly something to help out newbs it would need to be like a level 2 spell. In which case you couldn't really have it protecting you from higher than level 5 mobs. I think 1 group of agros that are actually dangerous occasionally being on the path isn't really a bad thing, fits in with the random encounter spirit of DnD, makes the trip have a little more game flavour than just a speedwalked path.

Another awesome life saver clerics get that other classes don't is word, it works in many !tele spots and saves your life and even takes your gear with you! :9, radness... use it... You get sense life spell aswell so you can see those pesky little hidden agros and just not go in the room.... You can continual light an object, that you made magically none the less, give it to your summoned pet and send it ahead to scout! Clerics can curse and blind the enemy and make a hasty retreat...

To re-summarise, I think having sanctuary that protects against mobs up to even 20 levels of the clerics would just give them too many bonuses for rare-hunting / questing / small zone hopping and general zone survivability for the class that already has the most hitpoints. At very low levels it it was say a protection 1 level below the cleric up to level 20 it would just take the edge and further dull all the already not visit low and mid level zones that do not take into account spells like this.

[amolol]

answe to not getting hit by low level aggro's as a priest... roll as an elf, and run fast.