Unscribing

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Thilindel
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Unscribing

Postby Thilindel » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:29 am

I'm not a fan of scribing for an hour or more. I'd really like to be able to remove single spells from a book. On the board, you can remove messages. How bout 'remove xxx book' and you unscribe it, based on scribing or whatever?
Gurns
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Postby Gurns » Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:57 pm

Uh, it's too difficult to carry two books rather than one? Three books rather than two? I've seen this idea proposed before. I've never understood why.

Yes, I have played casters. And I normally walk around with half a dozen things in my inventory, so I don't see how carrying 3 or 4 or even more books would be a problem.
Silsaterur
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Postby Silsaterur » Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:05 pm

If you're having problems with keeping track of all your books give this a shot.

Keep all your books in one unique "book bag" (I use a buckskin pack) then add the following to your mem and stand triggers/aliases appropriately.

get pack container;
get all.book pack;

and put all.book pack;

TADA!

It's not rocket science and it will hold you over until you get a real book. Just plan out your real book so that it doesn't need erasing and your good.

Viola!
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Muma OOC: 'haha i just stuck my tongue out at the moniter'
Muma OOC: 'and yea i was sticking it out at you EV'
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:38 pm

I'm not gonna reply to gurns, he clearly didn't understand what I'd posted. As far as carrying extra books and what not, it's when mud crashes and f's up several pages in the middle of a scribe. That and when you plan out a class that needs over 300 pages, it's very annoying that some spells aren't worth having in the first place.
Gurns
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Postby Gurns » Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:32 pm

Thilindel wrote:I'm not gonna reply to gurns, he clearly didn't understand what I'd posted.

You want to erase a page, so you can add another spell to an existing book, so you don't "have to" copy most of the spells from Book A to Book B, to get the one Book of Spells you want. So you don't "have to" copy most of the spells from Book A to Book B to get rid of a useless spell.

No, I understood what you posted, I just don't understand why it's a problem. What's tough about carrying two books rather than one? Or does it offend your sense of order to not have every spell in one book? Maybe it does, since I do see that you're quite bothered by "useless" spells.
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:48 am

cuz first of all there's a problem when the mud crashes and it nukes 9 pages out of a 10 page spell. Second of all, any enchanter/necro knows all these spells are a pain to juggle. Two 120 pg books aren't near enough. U understand now? Having half your inventory obligated to books sucks
Gurns
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Postby Gurns » Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:50 am

Thilindel wrote:cuz first of all there's a problem when the mud crashes and it nukes 9 pages out of a 10 page spell.

Yes, I understand that would be an irritation. I don't see it as a problem, but it's definitely irritating.
Thilindel wrote:Second of all, any enchanter/necro knows all these spells are a pain to juggle. Two 120 pg books aren't near enough.

Aren't there lots of spellbooks out there bigger than 120 pages? Like 150 and 200 and 250 page spellbooks? And by my calculations, an enchanter or necro who scribed every spell, including the useless ones, could still fit everything into less than 350 pages. If my count is a bit off, because new spells have been added, I still would assume that every useful spell would easily fit in three 120 page spellbooks. Or two larger spellbooks.
Thilindel wrote:Having half your inventory obligated to books sucks
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Jan 01, 2005 6:25 am

Well..you're wrong. Lich spells do not fit in to three 120 page books. There are 369 pages worth
Yarash
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Postby Yarash » Sat Jan 01, 2005 6:45 am

Thilindel wrote:cuz first of all there's a problem when the mud crashes and it nukes 9 pages out of a 10 page spell.

Could you explain this further? Do you mean if you are scribing a spell and it crashes, pages of the spellbook are permanently lost, with the spell not being scribed?

- Mike
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:15 am

yeah, if you just get a 200 pg book and scribe boneshatter and on pg 9, mud crashes, then you have a 191 page book now
Lenefir
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Postby Lenefir » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:41 pm

I would really like the ability to just pay some mob or something for the ability to just clear out the whole book. I mean... Any good bookbinder or even experienced librarian should be able to carefully take a book apart, take out the used pages, insert blank pages, and then put the book back together. Then any lost pages will get back, you won't go around being annoyed that your hard quested or hard won spellbook was poorly arranged or it crashed mid-scribe, it gives you the option to use the book for another mage class if wanted, less work clearing out the book, and the scribe skill might even get handy then.

Can't see how it can be overpowered or unfitting in allowing an alt or other character to reuse a spellbook you already have gotten from a zone or quested...
"Being God isn't easy. If you do too much, people get dependent on you; and if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch [...]. When you do things right, people won't be sure you have done anything at all"
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Nekelet
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Postby Nekelet » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:40 pm

I hesitate to mention this for a couple reasons.
1: Don't know if it even works - haven't tested.
2: Don't know if this would be bug/feature abuse.

But - don't objects put up on auction get reset when Auctioneer hands them to a pc? that is, fresh copy is spawned. I know cursed items get recursed when I win one.

So, how about in the case of crash broken books (or perhaps otherwise screwed up books) - peti asking for permission to auc/reclaim the item - and do so. Put it up at some insane price and then cancel it.

Gods input on whether this would be an acceptable workaround for the problem?
Grunelda
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Postby Grunelda » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:31 pm

This does not work to my knowledge - the auction states "this item has been altered and may not be sold"
Ensis
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Postby Ensis » Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:57 am

You used to be able to buy white-out in bloodstone.
Birile
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Postby Birile » Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:32 pm

Ensis wrote:You used to be able to buy white-out in bloodstone.


I prefer corrective tape. No mess. Only drawback is no fumes to sniff. :twisted:
Maedor
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Postby Maedor » Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:42 am

This is a really cool, and useful concept.

My biggest problem with scribe, is that some books are quite hard to get. Once you get a 'nice' book, it's a shame to have to throw it away essentially if you need to remove lower circle spells for more necessary ones, or if the mud crashes and lowers the capacity of your book as Thilindel explained, or even if you want to change races/classes. I'd like to think that quest books/muspel invasion books at least should be able to be flexible in these regards.

I heard rumor that Sseth is working on this issue. Yay:)
teflor the ranger
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Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:01 am

Add page as well, perhaps?
Sesexe
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Postby Sesexe » Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:49 am

Nekelet, putting up a book and then removing it from auction just to erase it is considered bug abuse, unless this has changed recently, that is my understanding to the best of my knowledge.

This suggestion of removing pages from books has been suggested before, and at one point I've even asked for it. No, I wasn't the first, so not claiming it as my idea, but I do see the need for it.

Any book that is not magical, that is, does not grant you ANY form of magical abilities/protections/skills, in my opinion, should be able to have the pages within erased/replaced. It's just a big book effectively.

As for magical books that do grant the user abilities/protections/skills (like the Kern books), these are inheritantly magical, and in my opinion, the entire item is part of the magical process. This includes the pages. You could no more replace/change a magical sword's pommel then you could remove a magical text's pages. This would be messing with the magical make-up of the item.


Gurns, why do we need this?
Because not everyone carries around newbie books to hold their spells, and not everyone has easy access to the larger spellbooks they have managed to acquire, and not everyone forsaw the new spell additions that came AFTER they had scribed their spells, and because to some races, having so many spell books in their inventory does affect their load (and this can be DEADLY under the effects of reduce).

Silsaterur, why don't we just make book aliases?
Because some people like to curse their spellbooks, so that when they 'put all bag' they don't put their spellbooks in the bag and break mem. Therefor they can't use book aliases to pull their cursed books from a 'spellbook' container.


Imagine being someone who is immobiile while reduce is up and having all their spellbooks out. Aggro mob walks in.

Instead of just an 'erase' command, I'd prefer a 'replace' command, that switches the pages that contain the spell with the necessary pages in your inventory, purchased beforehand at a store.
teflor the ranger
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Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:37 am

Well, actually, I'd like to point out that many books that are magical are !burn.
Eilorn
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Postby Eilorn » Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:50 pm

You know, realistically, spellbook users should be building their spellbooks, a page at a time. You shouldn't have to worry how many pages you have... just add a couple more, as necessary, removing others, as necessary. For realism we should have pages of different durability: paper, parchment, leather, scraped leather, lambskin, etc. You could have quested front covers, back covers, binding materials, dividers, inks, page materials...

"You lose memorization as the binding to your spellbook dissolves and your pages fall out on the ground."

"You lose memorization as the page for magic missile becomes too ragged to read."

"You are unable to scribe the spell 'Prismatic Spray' because you do not have enough pages to scribe it to."

"This sheet of lizard skin appears to be scribed with page 3 of the spell 'Power Word Blind'."

Eilorn.
Now, we can do this the hard way, or... well, actually there's just the hard way.
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Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:06 pm

I thought that if you were going to go with those kinds of theories, you'd remember that spellbooks used to be absolutely un-erasable. It wasn't like a binder with different spells tucked into it hodge-podge. Spellbooks didn't just have a random spell jotted down on a piece of parchment, it took magic to scribe each spell into the book, and once it was scribed it couldn't be removed without destroying the book and, quite likely, killing or at least seriously damaging everybody in the blast area. I think there's been a new spell created semi-recently that allows D&D mages to remove spells from their spellbooks, but I can't say I'm an expert on that.

But then again, the spell memorization methods of D&D never made any sense to me whatsoever. I always figured that once you knew a spell, you knew it, unless something came along that forced you to forget it, or you just got way too old.
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