Hired Mercenaries

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Nurpy Fuzzyfeet
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Hired Mercenaries

Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:30 pm

Ok I know alot of people really don't want this in the game, but I'm gonna give it a shot anyway.

They had it in Homeland where you could hire mercenaries such as a cleric, sorcerer, enchanter, etc. You would give them the number of platinum they asked for and they would follow you, loyal servants til death.

I ask for this because it really sucks when you want to do exp and there are not the neccesary group elements around.

To keep this from being unbalancing, I propose the following guidelines:

*Only allow someone to have 2 or 3 pets at most.

*Make them take exp as a regular group member would.

*Keep them relatively low level.

*Only allow certain classes to rent them, if neccesary.

*Don't allow them to enter zones that might be unbalancing.

Any suggestions/comments?

Thanks...
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Postby Pril » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:44 pm

How low a lvl are ya talking here nurpy? Problem i forsee is for them to be useful to low lvl people they would unbalance higher lvl people. As an example as a rogue if i hire a cleric/enhanter and they can stone/blur me... and if the cleric has heal well i can solo ds exp easily then as can any warrior and you can keep them outside of fight so that they don't steal exp...

If they can't stone blur then what's the point?

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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:01 pm

Pril wrote:How low a lvl are ya talking here nurpy? Problem i forsee is for them to be useful to low lvl people they would unbalance higher lvl people. As an example as a rogue if i hire a cleric/enhanter and they can stone/blur me... and if the cleric has heal well i can solo ds exp easily then as can any warrior and you can keep them outside of fight so that they don't steal exp...

If they can't stone blur then what's the point?

Pril


I mean something such as maybe level 30 or so.

If there's an issue with sending them out of the fight for exp then make it so you can't send them away. They follow you and stay with you regardless of your orders.

As for a cleric/stoner spelling up a warrior and soloing ds, then make it so certain mercenaries won't follow you if you pick another. i.e. enchanter doesn't like cleric and won't follow you as long as you have him.

I don't know, it just sucks when 1/3rd people are afk, another 1/3rd of the people are zoning, and the other 1/3rd people are already in an exp group and not accepting more members because when you get over 4 in a group it screws exp for the casters.
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Postby rer » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:14 pm

If you implement this, there will be no more exp grouping. Why would I find a level 45 chanter, when all i need is stone/blur that a level 30 chanter NPC can take care of just fine for me? It's gonna steal less exp than the level 45 player which is better for me.

Yes, many people, including myself, would rather exp with other players, as it's more interesting and you can actually have a convo at the same time. However, if I'm trying to grind out some quick exp, why not say screw everyone, buy a chanter and laugh my way to 50?
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:16 pm

Man, the things I could do with a cleric who could even just cast 'cure serious' on me. Even 'cure light' would open up whole new avenues in soloing. It would make those mobs I don't mess with because they take hours and hours to solo much more feasible.
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Postby Thilindel » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:22 pm

Ashiwi wrote:Man, the things I could do with a cleric who could even just cast 'cure serious' on me. Even 'cure light' would open up whole new avenues in soloing. It would make those mobs I don't mess with because they take hours and hours to solo much more feasible.

*grin* An even more powerful Ashiwi?! Woot! I'd like to see that :)
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:34 pm

rer wrote:If you implement this, there will be no more exp grouping. Why would I find a level 45 chanter, when all i need is stone/blur that a level 30 chanter NPC can take care of just fine for me? It's gonna steal less exp than the level 45 player which is better for me.

Yes, many people, including myself, would rather exp with other players, as it's more interesting and you can actually have a convo at the same time. However, if I'm trying to grind out some quick exp, why not say screw everyone, buy a chanter and laugh my way to 50?


There can be measures taken to prevent that. Make it so it takes MORE exp than a player would. Some exp is better than none.

Rer, did you not read my above post at all? I like grouping with people. It's fun....you make friends that way. But alot of the time I log on there is noone to group with. And a level 46 halfling warrior cannot solo DS as a troll can.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just....forget it. Dumb idea. People are so damn anxious to twink stuff that the restrictments that would have to be put on these mobs would render them unusable except for a very small margin. Sigh....
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Postby rer » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:40 pm

A level 45 barb warrior can solo ferns - havent tried it as a halfer. Thing that sucks is trying to regen.

Grab yerself a low level shaman - even cure crit helps out a lot - and they'll level pretty quickly to get you stones/heals as you move along. You dont have to look for the higher level players. a 21 chanter has blur, which helps a lot. a 21 shaman has cure crit. a 21 cleric has heal. 26 mentalists have stone. or just grab a bard to sing heal for you.

there are usually people willing to group, you just have to expand your mind about what's a good group. DS exp as a warrior isnt bad if you have decent AC and a buff or two.
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:48 pm

Actually, it's not a totally bad idea. I wouldn't mind seeing something like this available to low level PC's. There isn't always a group around to help experience, and sometimes it's really needed during levels 20-30. I doubt I'd support this for higher level PC's, as it would make things way too easy.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:50 pm

On homeland the spells the merc's could cast were only up to 5th circle as I recall and they had very limited mana, so there was alot of resting involved even with the mercs. They were pretty damn low level, a few good whacks would kill one.

They aren't as all powerful as people seem to think the idea is.
Last edited by Arilin Nydelahar on Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:51 pm

rer wrote:A level 45 barb warrior can solo ferns - havent tried it as a halfer. Thing that sucks is trying to regen.

Grab yerself a low level shaman - even cure crit helps out a lot - and they'll level pretty quickly to get you stones/heals as you move along. You dont have to look for the higher level players. a 21 chanter has blur, which helps a lot. a 21 shaman has cure crit. a 21 cleric has heal. 26 mentalists have stone. or just grab a bard to sing heal for you.

there are usually people willing to group, you just have to expand your mind about what's a good group. DS exp as a warrior isnt bad if you have decent AC and a buff or two.


Rer, you have no idea what you are talking about. Not all of us have spanky eq. I cannot tank on cure crits alone. A level 21's blur will not keep me from getting hit. If I try to pull a stunt like that, all I'm gonna end up with is a corpse of my own and possibly a newbies as well.

If I see someone who can be of any remote use to me, I always ask them if they would like to join. I even ask those that aren't particularly useful if they wanna join. I usually get silence, because they are someone's decked out alt too afk to play. I always invite bards, regardless of level, because even a level 25 bard can provide enough healage for me to tank DS.

This isn't a matter of being too picky with group members, it's about finding any group members at all.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:52 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:On homeland the spells the merc's could cast were only up to 5th circle I believe and they had very limited mana, so there was alot of resting involved even with the mercs. They were pretty damn low level, a few good whacks would kill one.

They aren't as all powerful as people seem to think the idea is.


Thank you.
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Postby Pril » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:59 pm

Just to clarify blur is lvl 26. continue.

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Postby Burmadapig » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:21 pm

If I remember correctly, they only had a subset of spells available to them. They didn't have every spell for each circle of their level. If I'm not remembering correctly, this could be done to limit twinkability. I think the clerics only had cure critic and lower. Definitely not heal. I don't remember what the mage had, but I don't recall it having stone. Had haste for sure, but I don't recall what else. As Arilin said, they had very low hps and were low level with limited mana.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:44 pm

Burmadapig wrote:If I remember correctly, they only had a subset of spells available to them. They didn't have every spell for each circle of their level. If I'm not remembering correctly, this could be done to limit twinkability. I think the clerics only had cure critic and lower. Definitely not heal. I don't remember what the mage had, but I don't recall it having stone. Had haste for sure, but I don't recall what else. As Arilin said, they had very low hps and were low level with limited mana.


Yeah, none of them had the class defining spell type thing. i.e. stone, or heal.

The most widely used one was the illusionist anyway for mirror image, both of which don't apply here.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:39 pm

Burmadapig wrote:If I remember correctly, they only had a subset of spells available to them. They didn't have every spell for each circle of their level. If I'm not remembering correctly, this could be done to limit twinkability. I think the clerics only had cure critic and lower. Definitely not heal. I don't remember what the mage had, but I don't recall it having stone. Had haste for sure, but I don't recall what else. As Arilin said, they had very low hps and were low level with limited mana.


Exactly..
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Postby rer » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:51 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:
rer wrote:A level 45 barb warrior can solo ferns - havent tried it as a halfer. Thing that sucks is trying to regen.

Grab yerself a low level shaman - even cure crit helps out a lot - and they'll level pretty quickly to get you stones/heals as you move along. You dont have to look for the higher level players. a 21 chanter has blur, which helps a lot. a 21 shaman has cure crit. a 21 cleric has heal. 26 mentalists have stone. or just grab a bard to sing heal for you.

there are usually people willing to group, you just have to expand your mind about what's a good group. DS exp as a warrior isnt bad if you have decent AC and a buff or two.


Rer, you have no idea what you are talking about. Not all of us have spanky eq. I cannot tank on cure crits alone. A level 21's blur will not keep me from getting hit. If I try to pull a stunt like that, all I'm gonna end up with is a corpse of my own and possibly a newbies as well.

If I see someone who can be of any remote use to me, I always ask them if they would like to join. I even ask those that aren't particularly useful if they wanna join. I usually get silence, because they are someone's decked out alt too afk to play. I always invite bards, regardless of level, because even a level 25 bard can provide enough healage for me to tank DS.

This isn't a matter of being too picky with group members, it's about finding any group members at all.


1) I do know what I am talking about, but thanks. Spanky eq has little to do with it. By the time you are level 45, you ought to have decent AC, and good skills. If your skills suck, then it doesnt really matter how spanky your eq is. If your skills rawk, and you know how to play your class, going into a zone naked won't be too much of a problem (see SPOB).

2) I don't know what you're talking about, because when I go out to exp, I don't have a problem finding the group necessary to do so. Granted, I don't exp very often because I abhor it and would much rather get my exp in zone. Which is where I got 99% of my exp from levels 41-47.

3) If you need help exping, let me know, and I'll come play with you. You can find me as Rer/Sakor/Herin/Lerer/Imo.

4) Based on the comments made by Arilin, where these Mercs don't have much to offer in the way of hps/mana/spells, I can't see how it would be too much of a bad thing. One condition I might like to place on them is that they are either unavailable to players over level 40 or 45 OR that their cost increases significantly in a direct correlation to the level of the purchaser. I agree with Ashiwi that making these available to the higher level characters would still be a little unbalancing.
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Postby Llaaldara » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:59 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:This isn't a matter of being too picky with group members, it's about finding any group members at all.


The #1 problem faced with new Toril players = a lack of individuals to group and level with.

This has nothing to do with game difficulty or leveling up difficulty. It has EVERYTHING to do with playing a multi-PLAYER game that is supposed to be GROUP-based and noone wants to group with anyone except for EQ zoning. What is the point?

Don't believe it is that bad? Roll a new anon char noone knows you as. Don't dump gear on em from alts/mains and try and level legit. See how many people want to group with you after asking them directly and via LFGC.

As was pointed out multiple times by multiple people on this BBS, having exp split between group members makes people not want to group with eachother, because noone likes doing mindless exp, so everyone wants it to go as fast as possible.

Sure you can drop your current name and walk into most groups that way, but what name is a new toril player, an old returned toril/sojourn player, or even a homeland player going to drop?
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Postby Tasan » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:14 pm

Llaaldara wrote:Don't believe it is that bad? Roll a new anon char noone knows you as. Don't dump gear on em from alts/mains and try and level legit. See how many people want to group with you after asking them directly and via LFGC.


Been there, done that, grouping in SC was 10x better than what life used to be like for a newbie. And yes, many of the lower level people were very open to grouping.

Maybe they just didn't like you ;)

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Postby Pril » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:26 pm

Tasan wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:Don't believe it is that bad? Roll a new anon char noone knows you as. Don't dump gear on em from alts/mains and try and level legit. See how many people want to group with you after asking them directly and via LFGC.


Been there, done that, grouping in SC was 10x better than what life used to be like for a newbie. And yes, many of the lower level people were very open to grouping.

Maybe they just didn't like you ;)

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Postby rer » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:29 pm

Llaaldara wrote:
Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:This isn't a matter of being too picky with group members, it's about finding any group members at all.


The #1 problem faced with new Toril players = a lack of individuals to group and level with.

This has nothing to do with game difficulty or leveling up difficulty. It has EVERYTHING to do with playing a multi-PLAYER game that is supposed to be GROUP-based and noone wants to group with anyone except for EQ zoning. What is the point?

Don't believe it is that bad? Roll a new anon char noone knows you as. Don't dump gear on em from alts/mains and try and level legit. See how many people want to group with you after asking them directly and via LFGC.

As was pointed out multiple times by multiple people on this BBS, having exp split between group members makes people not want to group with eachother, because noone likes doing mindless exp, so everyone wants it to go as fast as possible.

Sure you can drop your current name and walk into most groups that way, but what name is a new toril player, an old returned toril/sojourn player, or even a homeland player going to drop?


I am an old returned toril/sojourn player who hadn't played for at least 1, if not 2, pwipes before coming back in July. But that's not the point.

The point is, I typically don't ask someone who they are until they act as if they know me. When I'm looking for people to fill a group, either zone or exp, I ask. Finding exp'ers is a guaruntee. Finding people who want to follow me into a zone isn't, but it's pretty damn close.

Maybe that's in my name, I don't know. I seem to have made myself known in the last 8 months or so since I came back. And since I think I can count on one hand the number of people that remember me from way back in the day, I know it's not the memory of me that most people know now.

I've seen Nurpy in the game. I know a lot of people who have. He's come up in conversation before (all good, bro!), so people know who he is. Maybe it's just bad luck on timing? I dont know.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:18 am

rer wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:
Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:This isn't a matter of being too picky with group members, it's about finding any group members at all.


The #1 problem faced with new Toril players = a lack of individuals to group and level with.

This has nothing to do with game difficulty or leveling up difficulty. It has EVERYTHING to do with playing a multi-PLAYER game that is supposed to be GROUP-based and noone wants to group with anyone except for EQ zoning. What is the point?

Don't believe it is that bad? Roll a new anon char noone knows you as. Don't dump gear on em from alts/mains and try and level legit. See how many people want to group with you after asking them directly and via LFGC.

As was pointed out multiple times by multiple people on this BBS, having exp split between group members makes people not want to group with eachother, because noone likes doing mindless exp, so everyone wants it to go as fast as possible.

Sure you can drop your current name and walk into most groups that way, but what name is a new toril player, an old returned toril/sojourn player, or even a homeland player going to drop?


I am an old returned toril/sojourn player who hadn't played for at least 1, if not 2, pwipes before coming back in July. But that's not the point.

The point is, I typically don't ask someone who they are until they act as if they know me. When I'm looking for people to fill a group, either zone or exp, I ask. Finding exp'ers is a guaruntee. Finding people who want to follow me into a zone isn't, but it's pretty damn close.

Maybe that's in my name, I don't know. I seem to have made myself known in the last 8 months or so since I came back. And since I think I can count on one hand the number of people that remember me from way back in the day, I know it's not the memory of me that most people know now.

I've seen Nurpy in the game. I know a lot of people who have. He's come up in conversation before (all good, bro!), so people know who he is. Maybe it's just bad luck on timing? I dont know.



Often I can log on during prime time, but most of the time it's usually when there is about 20-30 peeps online total.

Sorry I was snappy earlier, just got a little frustrated.

I think my skills are decent....though I really wouldn't feel comfortable zoning with them til most of them are maxed.
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Postby daggaz » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:44 pm

With just a 21st lvl cleric willing to tag along with me and sit out of all the fights just to heal me everytime i run into the room, i can solo all kinds of mobs all over this mud in far less time than it normally takes. Its a sick advantage if I can hire a cleric even at this low of a level. So please put it in! But only for me.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:49 pm

daggaz wrote:With just a 21st lvl cleric willing to tag along with me and sit out of all the fights just to heal me everytime i run into the room, i can solo all kinds of mobs all over this mud in far less time than it normally takes. Its a sick advantage if I can hire a cleric even at this low of a level. So please put it in! But only for me.


Until you see the idea actually working the way it did on homeland, you have absolutely no room to talk about it. It's not that fugging powerful. And by the by. It's meant for low levels, not high level people.
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Postby Eshacin » Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:38 pm

I rolled a character on Homeland a little while back and was quite enjoying it. Then someone showed me where to hire mercs and gave me some money to hire them with. I did, went back to the mobs I'd been struggling to kill, slaughtered them and completely lost interest in the game.

FWIW
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:57 pm

Eshacin wrote:I rolled a character on Homeland a little while back and was quite enjoying it. Then someone showed me where to hire mercs and gave me some money to hire them with. I did, went back to the mobs I'd been struggling to kill, slaughtered them and completely lost interest in the game.

FWIW


You are comparing apples to oranges there, bud. And they wouldn't be that tough....I see them used more like this.

I wanna go to an exp zone....but all I have is a level 20 bard....the bard sings heal but it isn't quite good enough to keep me alive....so I go and grab a cleric or two from this mercenary camp to help take up the slack...if im not careful with this cleric it gets switched t and dies in a couple of rounds....I have to watch its mana also....we have to stop sometimes to let it renew....but it still helps us get from point A to be when the neccesary players arent around.
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Postby Eshacin » Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:00 pm

I wasn't comparing anything to anything, just saying what affect mercs in homeland had on me.
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Postby Burmadapig » Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:16 pm

Um DOH! How about since you slaughtered those mobs trying something a bit more difficult. Quite ridiculous to equate losing interest to what you described.
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Postby Eshacin » Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:29 pm

Burmadapig: how nice to hear your opinion that my opinion is ridiculous.

Since I didn't offer an opinion in the first place, I think most people will agree with me that your's is worth sweet fa.

Why are people here so childish that they have to attack anything they don't agree with?

Here's a little help with your education: equating means saying two things are equal. Did I do that? No. Does your comment contain any useful content? I equate the answer to that question to the answer to my previous question.
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Postby muzishun » Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:12 am

Well, I never was one of the power players on Homeland, and I'm still quite new to Toril, but I'd definitely like to see mercenaries implimented.

The mercs were only level 20, if I remember right. I'm positive they didn't have heal. The only time I ever saw high level players using mercs was when they were helping low players gain experience. Imagine, it's hard for a 30s level warrior to take a 5 or 10th level warrior and do much xp. If everyone else is busy, they can take a cleric or two and a illusionist and do somewhat decent. The mobs won't really be enough to give the 30-something a ton of xp, but the lower level player will benefit.

In all my time on Homeland, I don't think I ever saw any high level players actually using rented mercs in zones, and if they did, I'm sure they enjoyed their CR's. :wink:
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Postby Ruxur » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:44 am

i dont know what you guys are talking about, i group with noobies all the time why just today i had nonox, fotex, goroz, sotana, AND torir in my group, what a noob fest.

ohh and callanbar too. was a total noobie party, cept me ofc, i r uber
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Alendar group-says 'i r rednek i can only afford the monitor i have mud on and the broken monitor under it'
Nonox tells you 'i think someone casted 'power word gay' on pril'
Malacar ASSOC:: 'must... mp...soon...underwear...cringing...at...oncoming...onslaught...'
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:33 pm

So says the master of earthquaking wraiths.

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