How to fix old zone rewards

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Aldira
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How to fix old zone rewards

Postby Aldira » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:05 am

This suggestion is completely serious.

To fix all the rewards from old zones, and by 'fix' I mean make them important enough to be worn, and valued, and done on a regular basis instead of the newest eq farms: make item loads rotational. That's right. Port the newer zone features to the old things in the form of reducing the total amount of eq, and increasing the value of that eq.

For example: How many items load in Jot? Like 30 bazillion. Make only 5 items load every boot, and vary from boot to boot, like Musp, like Izan's, like spob and virtually every other zone that's come in since The Formula. This might even make something like drow-skin sleeves something to drool over!

Note that the alternative method of fixing all the old zone rewards would be to alter The Formula to take into account the rotational load gimmick, instantly sapping the newer zones of 90% of their points and bringing things much closer to old zone eq levels. It's just being used to milk zone points, anyways.
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:36 am

It is a shame to see the eq that was 'godly when I first started not really worn by anybody now. Stuff like starseed, cloud orb, shroud, etc..
Yasden
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Postby Yasden » Sat Apr 02, 2005 5:32 am

The trend over the past decade is that with every new high level zone, there's going to be better eq. The eq changes that have come and gone are the direct result of "curbing inflation".

However, with the new calculator numerically (not ideally) removing any limits on stats, anything is possible. There could be a 100hp ring at the end of a 4 hour zone (only item that loads)...but that would be vetoed surely because of the enormous gap between all other comparable items.

So like it was stated in a previous thread...common sense + player feedback + calculator = item stat balance.

Jot has its place historically as a great trainer zone for up-and-coming players. The power of players since Jot's conception has doubled, if not tripled (even with the cap limit on group members), thus making Jot an easily-done zone, with the only real difficult fights being at Thrym, 2nd gate, and Loki. Most of the rest is random encounters.

Personally, I think the eq should stay where it is. The quantity of eq in the game is not a direct indication of the quality. The quantity does, however, make the eq from Jot "seem" like crap because there's so much of it in the game that no one above 40 would really want it unless by some far-fetched reason they've got sub-par eq. There's several ideas to fix that, but that's another topic.

This goes for any zone that's been around for years, and can be easily done in 1 hour. Jot and Brass will always have their place in my heart as where I cut my teeth following AND leading. CC used to be an insanely difficult zone. I've been in a group that did it legitimately (not using any old school PFU twinkage) in 75 minutes, so I can understand why the equipment there isn't as great as it used to be.

A zone that requires a full 15 man group, eliminates the ability to escape, and requires you to complete it in full *should* have the best rewards, even if some agree the stats on those items are too powerful/too weak. Examples: BC, SPoB, Izan's, Seelie Court, Hulburg.

If you want "different looking" equipment, my suggestion to area makers is to make dynamic eq with the same stats, maybe on a different mob with same stats. That way you could have multiple possibilities for mobs/equipment in a fight and change up things. The only limit is the vnum range..but a 300 room zone shouldn't realistically ever have 300 items.


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Aldira
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Postby Aldira » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:53 pm

Uh.. huh? How does any of that apply to my suggestion? I said nothing about how much of the old-zone eq is currently in the game, or the ease of the zones, or the difficulties of new zones, or "the good old days" or anything like that. I'm just saying, make Utgard-Loki only have 1 item whenever you kill him, and that item will be proportionately better than the way things are now when he loads 5 or 6. Simple arithmetic. And it's how the newer zones are pumping out just as many items as jot, but much more powerful on the whole.
Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:29 pm

Better Idea: Stop using the EQ Calc'r as the end all for statting equipment.




Gallagher appears to be an Areas God and looks to have some sort of condition...

<wielding twohanded> The EQ Calc'r


Gallahger shouts 'lets make some zones!'
Last edited by Gormal on Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Duna
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Postby Duna » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:35 pm

Gormal wrote:
Gallagher appears to be an Areas God and looks to have some sort of condition...

<wielded two-handed> The EQ Calc'r


Gallahger shouts 'lets make some zones!'


ROFL :) Is he gonna use it to smash watermellon as well? :P
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Postby Salen » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:41 pm

Gormal wrote:Better Idea: Stop using the EQ Calc'r as the end all for statting equipment.


I'm pretty sure some of us got lambasted for saying this BEFORE they changed everything and F'd stuff. Oh, the times they are a-changin'.
emote Rescuepractice
Yasden
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Postby Yasden » Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:39 pm

Aldira wrote:Uh.. huh? How does any of that apply to my suggestion? I said nothing about how much of the old-zone eq is currently in the game, or the ease of the zones, or the difficulties of new zones, or "the good old days" or anything like that. I'm just saying, make Utgard-Loki only have 1 item whenever you kill him, and that item will be proportionately better than the way things are now when he loads 5 or 6. Simple arithmetic. And it's how the newer zones are pumping out just as many items as jot, but much more powerful on the whole.


But why?

I mean sure, Jot might get done more often...but I think honestly if invasion rate % was upped and the invasion rewards *slightly* upgraded...Jot might get done even more. Skull earring got a nice upgrade, that alone is still worth clearing 2nd gate imho. There's several quest items beyond 2nd gate too.

Ringmail is still a great caster body item, too.

Don't forget, those other zones you're referring to take a lot more skill to do than Jot does. There's only 3 fights in Jot that require any real skill, 2 if you don't count 2nd gate. That's why I referred to it as a great trainer zone.

Another idea would be to make the items % load off Thrym/Loki like they do in SF on the Thak/Mogdath fight. I wouldn't complain if all the eq was made 90% load.
Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:50 pm

I think that one thing the eq calc'r doesn't take into account is that 20 pieces of midlevel equipment don't even phase the top end game... 1 piece of overstatted eq does a lot even though the two may share the same total points.
Vaprak
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Postby Vaprak » Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:59 pm

Gormal wrote:I think that one thing the eq calc'r doesn't take into account is that 20 pieces of midlevel equipment don't even phase the top end game... 1 piece of overstatted eq does a lot even though the two may share the same total points.


It may not phase the top end game, but it certainly screws up the mid-range levels since there is absolutely no incentive at all to go out as a level 25-40 and get your own EQ when you can just get some hand-me-downs from a high leveler.
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Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:09 pm

thats a product of the calcr making our equipment we used to wear crap, and putting newer better stuff in!
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:38 am

its a product of time. eq only leaves the game when someone dies in RL.
Yasden
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Postby Yasden » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:58 pm

trans all to water room, #5 {forceall rem all; forceall drop all}

That would get rid of a lot. :P
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:23 pm

Thilindel wrote:It is a shame to see the eq that was 'godly when I first started not really worn by anybody now. Stuff like starseed, cloud orb, shroud, etc..


Not to mention tiny silver rings, steel bracelets, wooden earrings, and that one emerald ring that only loads once a boot in minthka. Frankly, gear obsoletion is part of the climb of power in these sorts of collection based roleplaying games.
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Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:32 pm

i found everquests model interesting.

you release an expansion that only the top 1% of the pbase can handle and it takes then several months to own.

you release the next expansion that only the top 1% of the pbase can handle, but you raise the pc level limit and imp some new skills or equipment so that 30-40% of the pbase can do the previous expansion.

rinse and repeat

the elite are still elite and can continue to look down on everyone else
the not so insane gamers can do content that they didn't use to be able to do.

things to note:

1. content didn't go in super easy then get upgraded. it got effectively downgraded over time.

2. content didn't load too much eq until the shiz was farmed out of it then have the load rates nerfed or the zone upgraded after it doesn't matter anymore.

3. eq continually escalates and people at the top 1% don't bitch because they keep the same relative position to the other 99%. Furthermore, people get repeat value out of old zones by going back and soloing them or small manning them. Think how at first clouds was a 15 man group and now some people do it 6 man. Going back and doing old content requires an economy after the novelty of bragging wears off. You either sell to other players or trade in some how for increasing power of your prime char (like through tradeskills).
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!

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