With all the talk about auction houses I'd thought I'd revisit this idea again. On the Mud Zonerunner there was a command called 'donate'. When used it would take an item you have choosen from your inventory and place it in a 'Warehouse' room in the main city where anyone was free to take and make use of it. Very positive for new players who are in need of anything and everything in the way of eq.
I think we could take this command even a bit farther, and do away with some old ways of doing things that are not only innefficent but confusing for new players.
Here's how I propose a command like this be implemented:
donate <item name>
- Donates item to a general 'Ware House' room, which could be located in Scardale.
donate <item name> <home town>
- Donates item to a specific Home Town's room (Would require a room be added to each home town)
donate <item name> <player name>
- Donates item directly to Players inventory. Requires players consent, and receiving player must be 20th level or lower.
Restrictions: Can only donate to players directly when both players are in a Home-Town (Doesnt have to be the same home town). Perhaps prevent the donation of items that are not auctionable, etc.
First and foremost I think an auction hall in every home town isn't a top notch idea. I generally feel 10 p is too expensive for most new players to afford, and often the items listed at 10 p are stuff that would in many cases just be left on the ground.
This command structure would not only help keep popular hang outs clean and free of junk nobody wants. This would give an easy way for people to help new players both directly and indirectly.
Second, this would remove the need for Mule characters. Instead of rolling a new character and eq'ing via a mule one could consent their own character while both are at Inns, and donate it all to yourself. If using Mule characters is an accepted practice why not remove the need to have a handful of dormant lvl 1 characters for the purpose of moving eq and money around and integrate it into a command...
Possible issues I could forsee would be transfering CR gear to characters in emergancys, however since one could only donate to sub-20 characters I dont see this as a big deal - one could still use a mule character anyways.
I'm sure a good number of you will be very against this idea...But I ask you, is it really any different than using Mule characters for the same purpose?
Comments, Suggestions, Flames, etc...
Donate Command Idea
I don't have time to look up the last time this idea was proposed, but my objection to it remains that it is far too impersonal.
I say this having played on numerous muds both with and without this function. It means more when a specific person with a specific name gives items to newbies, and less when they go to some specific place, sit around, and *poof* an item appears.
It further discourages them from earning their own coins, or exploring on their own. Why get possibly killed or lost when you can sit in one place for a long time and snag items as they appear?
Let's consider a level 3 newbie. At that level, with nothing but starter gear, they cannot solo any real equipment (the shiny crystal ball, perhaps, but definitely not tiny silver rings or the like.) Now, what is, to them, a better use of their time? They can either sit through agonizingly difficult exp, learning how to fight varying monsters and puzzling things out, or they can sit in one place for a while with a trigger to snag anything that pops up, and amass enough equipment to slaughter level 3 mobs, making tactical nuances entirely irrelevant.
Does this encourage them to learn?
Furthermore, let's look at it from an economic point of view. Suppose they could kill level 2-3 mobs for 4 hours straight. Suppose that, in the same amount of time, five people donate various lesser items to the bin. Even if the average worth of the items is only 250p each, we're looking at amassing over 1k worth of items which they could either use or sell within that same time.
Now, you could say that there are other newbies, and therefore they won't get all those items, but that makes it worse, not better. They do not *see* the person who donates items. They only see the other newbies there, who take items before they can. That encourages them to think along the lines of competition with other people, rather than cooperation, which is so essential to Toril. It doesn't negate the problem I just outlined, either; even a single item at 250p for 4 hrs is more than a complete noob can make.
Does this encourage them to work their way up, or to sit around and wait for handouts?
Even if it were completely impossible to level up without decent gear, I would still suggest that we encourage that people be given items face-to-face. However, there is a lot of learning that can go on without decent gear, and by giving newbies great incentives to sit around rather than experience this learning process, we would in fact be making the poorer players out of the next generation.
I say this having played on numerous muds both with and without this function. It means more when a specific person with a specific name gives items to newbies, and less when they go to some specific place, sit around, and *poof* an item appears.
It further discourages them from earning their own coins, or exploring on their own. Why get possibly killed or lost when you can sit in one place for a long time and snag items as they appear?
Let's consider a level 3 newbie. At that level, with nothing but starter gear, they cannot solo any real equipment (the shiny crystal ball, perhaps, but definitely not tiny silver rings or the like.) Now, what is, to them, a better use of their time? They can either sit through agonizingly difficult exp, learning how to fight varying monsters and puzzling things out, or they can sit in one place for a while with a trigger to snag anything that pops up, and amass enough equipment to slaughter level 3 mobs, making tactical nuances entirely irrelevant.
Does this encourage them to learn?
Furthermore, let's look at it from an economic point of view. Suppose they could kill level 2-3 mobs for 4 hours straight. Suppose that, in the same amount of time, five people donate various lesser items to the bin. Even if the average worth of the items is only 250p each, we're looking at amassing over 1k worth of items which they could either use or sell within that same time.
Now, you could say that there are other newbies, and therefore they won't get all those items, but that makes it worse, not better. They do not *see* the person who donates items. They only see the other newbies there, who take items before they can. That encourages them to think along the lines of competition with other people, rather than cooperation, which is so essential to Toril. It doesn't negate the problem I just outlined, either; even a single item at 250p for 4 hrs is more than a complete noob can make.
Does this encourage them to work their way up, or to sit around and wait for handouts?
Even if it were completely impossible to level up without decent gear, I would still suggest that we encourage that people be given items face-to-face. However, there is a lot of learning that can go on without decent gear, and by giving newbies great incentives to sit around rather than experience this learning process, we would in fact be making the poorer players out of the next generation.
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
There was a time when the WD inn had a room 1e of the innkeeper. If I remember right, there was a pit in the room where people used to drop items to donate. Whatever was put in the pit was usually removed in a matter of minutes, if it had any value. It wasn't uncommon to see players, new and old, get all from pit and then run to the thief shop to make a few silvers.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Botef,
When was the last time you levelled up in Scardale?? This is near and dear to me as I just got my little enchanter out of there. In 3 days of killing stuff in Scardale and selling the eq, questing stuff and selling the eq, I made some decent plats.
No, I'm not majorly eqd up either. Just decent lowby stuff. A good portion of it was stuff I bought there.
I remember when I first started, I got my first 10 p and thought I was rich! Plats are much easier to find in Scardale.
Lil
When was the last time you levelled up in Scardale?? This is near and dear to me as I just got my little enchanter out of there. In 3 days of killing stuff in Scardale and selling the eq, questing stuff and selling the eq, I made some decent plats.
No, I'm not majorly eqd up either. Just decent lowby stuff. A good portion of it was stuff I bought there.
I remember when I first started, I got my first 10 p and thought I was rich! Plats are much easier to find in Scardale.
Lil
I'm with Mori on this one, same as when it was last posted. I think shops and auctions and welling/reloing/walking around to newbs and them to you are part of what make torilmud so much more satisfying and engaging than many other stock / easy muds.
Ultimately if you are brand new to the game having gear isn't going to help you learn how to play or make it much more enjoyable. It isn't needed at all, and currently there are really cool thematic ways to aquire items that a part of the lure of torilmud.
Ultimately if you are brand new to the game having gear isn't going to help you learn how to play or make it much more enjoyable. It isn't needed at all, and currently there are really cool thematic ways to aquire items that a part of the lure of torilmud.
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream
Shadow Scream
I'd prefer it where newbies aren't given equipment.
All that does is create a game where you cannot gain any equipment on your own, until you reach level 40 odds and can zone.
In addition to that, and as a direct consequence, it means all players can do is xp.
If I end up talking to a new player, and show them around or something, then I tend to have a search through my bags for something to give to them.
I don't search out new players to ruin the game for them by handing them a full set of mid level equipment.
Something that the game needs to address is the lack of low level equipment in shops.
A new player should be able to get himself a workable set of gear by saving up his plats and shopping around the hometowns.
By doing that they'll have a sense of achievement, and the equipment will have some real worth to them.
All that does is create a game where you cannot gain any equipment on your own, until you reach level 40 odds and can zone.
In addition to that, and as a direct consequence, it means all players can do is xp.
If I end up talking to a new player, and show them around or something, then I tend to have a search through my bags for something to give to them.
I don't search out new players to ruin the game for them by handing them a full set of mid level equipment.
Something that the game needs to address is the lack of low level equipment in shops.
A new player should be able to get himself a workable set of gear by saving up his plats and shopping around the hometowns.
By doing that they'll have a sense of achievement, and the equipment will have some real worth to them.
Stamm wrote:I'd prefer it where newbies aren't given equipment.
All that does is create a game where you cannot gain any equipment on your own, until you reach level 40 odds and can zone.
In addition to that, and as a direct consequence, it means all players can do is xp.
If I end up talking to a new player, and show them around or something, then I tend to have a search through my bags for something to give to them.
I don't search out new players to ruin the game for them by handing them a full set of mid level equipment.
Something that the game needs to address is the lack of low level equipment in shops.
A new player should be able to get himself a workable set of gear by saving up his plats and shopping around the hometowns.
By doing that they'll have a sense of achievement, and the equipment will have some real worth to them.
Most low-mid level eq isnt worth spending time aquiring when you can buy much better stuff on auction anyways, or get some hand outs. People seem to outgrow the equipment they can get on their own before 40 very quickly.
Plus buying equipment in a shop gives no more satisfaction then buying it on auction, its just more accessable.
Botef wrote:Most low-mid level eq isnt worth spending time aquiring when you can buy much better stuff on auction anyways, or get some hand outs. People seem to outgrow the equipment they can get on their own before 40 very quickly.
Plus buying equipment in a shop gives no more satisfaction then buying it on auction, its just more accessable.
Whose time? And buying with what money? A level 10 newbie ought to be more than willing to spend 10 hours to get TF or Crypts gear - because it's impossible for them to get normally. Furthermore, buying equipment at a shop differs from an auction system in legitimacy. You pay a preset price at a shop. That implies something - if you can buy the items there, it's a sign that your finances are at a certain level. There will be no sudden variations that prevent you from acquiring an item once you've finally amassed the wealth to buy it. If you buy something low-level from an auction, the price depends on how many other people happen to be interested. After all, most of us think nothing of a 50p variation in price because we're so busy bidding on items that sell for 5000p - but when you're a newbie scraping together copper coins and bidding on a 100p item, a 50p variation could entirely make the difference between winning and losing the bid.
If you read my post above, I consider the case of a true noob who completely lacks the means to get gear. Giving them mid-level gear entirely bypasses the difficult process of building up a set of eq from scratch for them. Worse still, doing it anonymously encourages them to not learn how to do things the hard way, and does nothing to teach them to be pro-active in seeking out other people and establishing ties. After all, someone will fix their problems if they wait around a while, right?
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
As a new player, I'm torn in how to respond to this thread.
I was honestly 'spoiled' by someone giving me a GCD at level 10. Now I'm level 36, and always looking for an upgrade to the GCD, which apparently isn't going to come for quite a while yet. The GCD is a great weapon even at 36, but I've had it for so long that I have learned to take it for granted. And no I'm not trying to deny gratitude to the player that gave me the item, I still remember who it is. That weapon is really the main reason I'm not still wallowing in my late teens/early twenties.
From a design point of view, mid-level freebies are very bad for long term player retention because freebies only provide instant gratification, and even a sense of entitlement. Freebies do not instill into the player a sense of pride like hard-fought and won items do.
I applaud Deyil (sp?) for his help the other day. He did hand over a few nice items, but then instead of just continuing to dig through his bags, he ran me around to several low-mid eq places and helped me get a few other items. Its funny, the items I get for free almost slip my mind, but I can list the names and stats of all the items I've earned (even with major help). Obviously I am thankful to those that have given me freebies also, but it's kind of like the old addage "GIVE a man a fish, and he'll eat today. Teach him to fish, and he'll eat the rest of his days"
What I think is really needed is more areas like the 'archway' by the zombies south of waterdeep. There could be some NICE (relative to the mud-flation that has occured on Toril over the years) gear for 20-40 characters that ONLY those characters can go in and EARN. At the same time, the areas can't be so difficult that it takes a 15 person group. The player base doesn't exist for that anymore. I'd be willing to lend a hand in coding/area creation to help out with some areas in this direction.
I was honestly 'spoiled' by someone giving me a GCD at level 10. Now I'm level 36, and always looking for an upgrade to the GCD, which apparently isn't going to come for quite a while yet. The GCD is a great weapon even at 36, but I've had it for so long that I have learned to take it for granted. And no I'm not trying to deny gratitude to the player that gave me the item, I still remember who it is. That weapon is really the main reason I'm not still wallowing in my late teens/early twenties.
From a design point of view, mid-level freebies are very bad for long term player retention because freebies only provide instant gratification, and even a sense of entitlement. Freebies do not instill into the player a sense of pride like hard-fought and won items do.
I applaud Deyil (sp?) for his help the other day. He did hand over a few nice items, but then instead of just continuing to dig through his bags, he ran me around to several low-mid eq places and helped me get a few other items. Its funny, the items I get for free almost slip my mind, but I can list the names and stats of all the items I've earned (even with major help). Obviously I am thankful to those that have given me freebies also, but it's kind of like the old addage "GIVE a man a fish, and he'll eat today. Teach him to fish, and he'll eat the rest of his days"
What I think is really needed is more areas like the 'archway' by the zombies south of waterdeep. There could be some NICE (relative to the mud-flation that has occured on Toril over the years) gear for 20-40 characters that ONLY those characters can go in and EARN. At the same time, the areas can't be so difficult that it takes a 15 person group. The player base doesn't exist for that anymore. I'd be willing to lend a hand in coding/area creation to help out with some areas in this direction.
People like Alabas give me a good feeling! The other night, a guildie and I ran around and smote a few mobs that I hadn't killed in years in order to help a couple of self professed Newbies get a couple of upgrades. It was a 4 man group and I at least had a blast.
What was even better was when the Ranger came into the group and mentioned that he needed some +dam gear, the warrior (who we were originally getting the gear for) gave it to him instead and the ranger handed off the gear that he replaced. All in all, they both made a pretty decent upgrade considering we were killing for mid-level gear and I was playing my shaman (which I suck at).
I love hearing a newbie say that they want to EARN the gear :) I will admit that I have been guilty of giving out a piece of EQ here and there as well, but I usually make them quest something for me. Say, there is an illithid controlling some ants in a town not far from here. Bring me the Illithid's head and I will reward you!, or (depending on level) There is a warrior representing a dark beast on the road. He is accosting travelers. Take me to him and kill him and you will receive a reward.
Little things like that can make all the difference between feeling like they were given something and feeling as though they earned it. If you REALLY want to help a lowbie, don't just hand them the gear. . .teach them the game :)
Okay, I am done for now. . .
What was even better was when the Ranger came into the group and mentioned that he needed some +dam gear, the warrior (who we were originally getting the gear for) gave it to him instead and the ranger handed off the gear that he replaced. All in all, they both made a pretty decent upgrade considering we were killing for mid-level gear and I was playing my shaman (which I suck at).
I love hearing a newbie say that they want to EARN the gear :) I will admit that I have been guilty of giving out a piece of EQ here and there as well, but I usually make them quest something for me. Say, there is an illithid controlling some ants in a town not far from here. Bring me the Illithid's head and I will reward you!, or (depending on level) There is a warrior representing a dark beast on the road. He is accosting travelers. Take me to him and kill him and you will receive a reward.
Little things like that can make all the difference between feeling like they were given something and feeling as though they earned it. If you REALLY want to help a lowbie, don't just hand them the gear. . .teach them the game :)
Okay, I am done for now. . .
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