Prestige Idea

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Birile
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Prestige Idea

Postby Birile » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:07 pm

I don't know if the Imms have anything truly in the works for a use for Prestige, but here's my idea for its use:

Instead of making certain zones accessible by people of a certain high level, make them accessible by people with only a certain prestige. That way all those mofo's with level 50 alts that they leveled in under a week can't just equip that alt and play it in those high-end zones. They'd actually have to use that character for awhile and spend time playing it. Gaining prestige takes time, exp'ing only nets you a certain amount of prestige, the rest has to be earned in other ways.

An example of how this would work, using myself as an example (assuming I played still): Birile (lvl 50 bard) would be able to zone in a lot more things than Sunlireal (lvl 50 elementalist) would even though both of my characters are level 50--because Birile has thousands more prestige points than Sunlireal does.

I'm sure it could be argued that this would make zones "exclusive" but I would argue that that's actually kind of the purpose of this sort of system. It keeps the rampant disease of alting under control, it forces people to care about their prestige and the multitude of ways it can be earned and it gives newer players something to strive for other than getting to level 50. And yeah, it would be more difficult forming groups because you couldn't simply tell Joe Schmoe to get out his alt cleric because that cleric doesn't have crap for prestige because he pleveled and didn't truly care enough about the character to work at the much more difficult to acquire prestige. But I don't see that as a bad thing, it's a rather good thing.

Cheers!
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Postby kiryan » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:27 pm

sounds like a decent idea for a few zones.

There are quite a few people who think locked content is inherently bad and I'm no sure I don't disagree.

Another good idea for prestige would be in quests. However, this is pointless if eq can be handed around.
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Postby Raiwen » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:36 pm

so, instead of xping in a week to lvl 50, ppl will xp in a week to lvl 50, then prestige up in another week.

I doubt this idea will fix anything in the long run other than tag on a couple of weeks to pleveling alts.
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Postby Lirela » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:56 pm

I kinda like the idea, or at least the intent behind it.

Give people a chance to learn their class before they zone. Good thing!
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Postby kiryan » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:50 pm

The benefit of having some prestige based zones is that it would give players one more thing to work for. Not a very glamorous and by most arguments not an enjoyable thing, but never the less one more thing you could achieve on your character(s).

since were talkign about locked content...

Everquest had a pretty extensive level locked content that involved multiple tiers of zones. You had to complete multiple large scale "events" in each tier before being able to adventure in the next tier. You had a lot of competition to participate and win events in each tier and it took months of concerted effort to reach each new tier (mostly because of pop times on mobs and difficulty of encounters).

As each expansion came out they lessened restrictions on the tiers, like allowing all level 60 characters access to the second tier and all level 65 characters access to the third tier, which worked very well because by the time an expansion came out the elite people were already bored of the lower tiers. With the equipment the not elite people could obtain in the lower tiers they could actually attempt and succeed at the lower tier major events with smaller not as well organized groups.

At the same time, they allowed people who weren't authorized on their own to enter the higher tiers to do so if 90% of their group had access. This was so that elite guilds wouldnt hog the encounters week after week because one guy didn't have the right flags.
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Prestige and Hooks

Postby Itex » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:31 pm

Well way back when Miax was around and I was playing Iuz we did have some solid ideas for prestige --- that never got beyond the wanks like Kia and Mask and a few other pud knockers....


Prestige based zones --- where only 1 person at a time could be in zone based on prestige for a class specific quest

Prestige based zones --- where only 1 person at a time could be in zone based on prestige to hunt for random pop rares

Prestige based zones --- where combination of pretige in group would have to equal x amount or group could not enter -- a normal zone, but for prestige holders only --- zones would be split for like 1000-2500 and 2501-5000 and 5001 up

Prestige mini zones -- a hostel where you had to have a base to just get in -- shops on ground floor with base RP and Prestige eq (meaning you had to have prestige to get into the shop and once in some of the eq you could buy would add to your prestige -- and detract when u took it off - kinda like oh oh look at me a coronet i look like a prince (+250 prestige - but take it off and -250 prestige)

...entry to higher levels of the hostel (again based on prestige) would put you into levels where there were other shops (more varied eq and rp gear) rooms with healing or meditation bonus --- and at the top top -- portals to other hostels --- yes it was a hook to get ppl to do prestige so they could enter a hostel in BloodStone and insta teleport to EM


but sadly this never came to fruition - some of us got burned out on the quest sphere due to politics and the lack of anyone ever even remotely considering our ideas in earnest.

Peace

Iuz
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:35 pm

Oooooooh, Iuz... I LOVE the prestige tele idea.
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Ash

Postby Itex » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:42 pm

Uzi HAGES jOo!!!
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Postby icecillam » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:07 pm

You do realize that all those mofo's who pleveled to 50 in one week probably have the time to just plevel their pp's in the next week right? So what you've basicaly done is taken a task that takes 1 week and turned it into a two week thing. PP's being linked to xp makes it utterly useless in tracking anything.

Now if you were to suggest an alternative way of tracking "prestigue" that accuretly reflects something then yes it'd be a cool idea. See following example. No the idea is not fleshed out fully, but its just a basic idea for a better way of tracking prestigue.

Everyone has a list of things they've been around to kill (could probably even use trophy). So if your char has gone and been fighting for example, Loki thats +1 to your reputation score. Sultan in brass, dragons, etc. The "big" mobs. DS nets you 0, ship 0, smoke 0, standard xp mobs 0, etc, you get the idea. Then if you linked prestige to this, it'd actually be a useful number.

There would need to be a way to figure out if you actually were fighting/assisting/or just healing the mob. As well as some timer so you can only net the prestigue off the mob once per say 24 hours. Of course this would need to be balanced so like running Bel once would be worth more than running the Brass Sultan once. Of course the balancing of this will result in many flames and complaints on the bbs, so I'm not sure that its actually worth it.
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:16 pm

It was my understanding that certain mobs and mob types already gave more prestige than typical mobs. Dragons are supposed to be worth more prestige than most, aren't they?
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Postby Corth » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:37 pm

As prestige is presently constituted, I absolutely hate this idea. I have a trophy full of mobs from clouds, jot/musp invasion, CC, scorps, etc. I am also level 46 and your average 1-week pleveled wank has more prestige than me.

There is no reason that having tons of exp should in any way reflect some sort of achievment. If prestige actually reflected accomplishments on the mud, than we can talk about making it useful.

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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:52 pm

I didn't think trophy and prestige were tied together.

Prestige: 13590

That's considering that long period of time where I wasn't playing, the fact that I don't zone very much now, and a death count that keeps my exp level fairly low while my ptime is pretty high. There's other people in the game with much higher prestige, but as much as I die, shouldn't my prestige be abysmally low if it was tied to trophy?
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Postby Birile » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:54 pm

Ashiwi wrote:It was my understanding that certain mobs and mob types already gave more prestige than typical mobs. Dragons are supposed to be worth more prestige than most, aren't they?


As far as I know, you get 1 prestige point for each "major" mob that you are involved in slaying, dragons being one of those types of major mobs.

And as far as the prestige/experience thing goes, you get, what, 5000 prestige from simply leveling to 50 (100 per level, IIRC), and 1 point of prestige for every % of exp above 50 you have. So it doesn't seem all that difficult to say that of course the prestige lower limit for the zones which I was talking about would be well above 5000, probably starting at 7500, 8000 or even 10000 (there couldn't possibly be many bonafide alts that have over 10000, I'm not even sure my main has that much and I have over 4 months ptime, even before I started logging in just to chat).

This is also a good way of rewarding other ways of playing this game--mainly the big RPers in the game who get rewarded with prestige points for their activities. Not all hardcore RPers have items and such to show for their efforts.
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Postby kiryan » Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:32 pm

I never understood why you gained prestige for level * 100 + charisma * 10 or so... Was it an attempt to make charisma useful? Why are we polluting the "prestige" stat with level data? You could still make the calculation in any check you wanted.

prestige for exp doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me... at least not at teh rate we accrue it. maybe 1 prestige for 10% over 50 or something not 1 per %.

prestige for killing players in the arena was subject to abuse, but a good idea.

prestige for certain high level encounters makes a lot of sense.

prestige for completing high level quests makes a lot of sense.

however as a vision for prestige failed to ever materialize (which is evident by the haphazard implementation taken away from arena kills added to exp and mobs) the "stat" has become utterly pointless and if I were implementing a new "feature" taht relied on prestige, i'd push hard that the stat be reset across the board.
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Postby Corth » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:50 pm

Ashiwi:

There is no relation between prestige and trophy. The most important factor in prestige is level and experience. By bringing up my trophy, I was illustrating how a character can have low prestige and still have fought the hardest mobs in the game enough times to get them on his trophy. My main point is that before prestige is used for anything at all, it should accurately reflect accomplishments that mean something. High experience means nothing at all in this game. Imho, experience should have nothing to do with prestige. Just mobs killed and prestige points from rp quests.

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:41 pm

Make it so you get a prestige point for every post you have on the bbs, then everyone will be happy.
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Postby Yasden » Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:17 am

You also get 1 prestige for every 1% of exp you get after 50th.

So the 1-week-to-50 plevelers could just spend another week pleveling and gain themselves a fat chunk of prestige.
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Postby Demuladon » Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:35 am

I don't think you need to use prestige to hard code people out of zone groups. There are enough barriers already in place to stop newbies zoning.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:01 am

Demuladon wrote:I don't think you need to use prestige to hard code people out of zone groups. There are enough barriers already in place to stop newbies zoning.


Agreed.
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Postby Vigis » Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:30 am

A newbie who has gotten to zoning level will (at present) have enough prestige to get into the major zones.

For one thing, as a true newb, you don't hit 50 all that soon.

I was going to go for more, but I have to drive 500 miles tomorrow and check out of the hotel, so Laterz :)
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Postby Sarell » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:24 am

Prestige you can get just the same as you can get level 50, sit in DS for a few days. I think both my rogues prolly have more prestige than sarell and about 1/10th of the playtime, and a smidgeon of the number of zones smitten. So when you set the bar of prestige that allowed you to get into zones, it would mean every half rate rogue could get in, but legendary leaders like Corth couldn't, prestige woul have to be significantly changed for this idea to make any sense.

Vigis wrote:For one thing, as a true newb, you don't hit 50 all that soon.

Yes they do. Then they ask for a well back from DS to WD.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:23 am

Sarell wrote:Prestige you can get just the same as you can get level 50, sit in DS for a few days. I think both my rogues prolly have more prestige than sarell and about 1/10th of the playtime, and a smidgeon of the number of zones smitten. So when you set the bar of prestige that allowed you to get into zones, it would mean every half rate rogue could get in, but legendary leaders like Corth couldn't, prestige woul have to be significantly changed for this idea to make any sense.

Vigis wrote:For one thing, as a true newb, you don't hit 50 all that soon.

Yes they do. Then they ask for a well back from DS to WD.


And how is this a very bad thing?

Will not knowing the way to DS effect how the player knows their class? -Nope. It's about the fight itself, not getting to the fight.

Will not knowing the way to DS effect how the player zones?- Nope.

Will not knowing the way to DS effect the player having fun?- Nope....and if it does, the noob will learn the way.

Not knowing little things like that doesn't mean anything more than every member in a zone group not knowing the way to the zone they are about to kill in- Not a DAMN thing. They will get there and have fun regardless.

Think before you speak...err type...
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Postby Pril » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:39 am

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:
Sarell wrote:Prestige you can get just the same as you can get level 50, sit in DS for a few days. I think both my rogues prolly have more prestige than sarell and about 1/10th of the playtime, and a smidgeon of the number of zones smitten. So when you set the bar of prestige that allowed you to get into zones, it would mean every half rate rogue could get in, but legendary leaders like Corth couldn't, prestige woul have to be significantly changed for this idea to make any sense.

Vigis wrote:For one thing, as a true newb, you don't hit 50 all that soon.

Yes they do. Then they ask for a well back from DS to WD.


And how is this a very bad thing?

Will not knowing the way to DS effect how the player knows their class? -Nope. It's about the fight itself, not getting to the fight.

Will not knowing the way to DS effect how the player zones?- Nope.

Will not knowing the way to DS effect the player having fun?- Nope....and if it does, the noob will learn the way.

Not knowing little things like that doesn't mean anything more than every member in a zone group not knowing the way to the zone they are about to kill in- Not a DAMN thing. They will get there and have fun regardless.

Think before you speak...err type...


Nurpy, the problem is there's less and less people who know the way to stuff. And if those people leave all people will do for "zoning exp" is wd fountain fights (assuming they can get to the wd fountain from the inn).

Pril
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:59 am

Pril wrote:
Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:
Sarell wrote:Prestige you can get just the same as you can get level 50, sit in DS for a few days. I think both my rogues prolly have more prestige than sarell and about 1/10th of the playtime, and a smidgeon of the number of zones smitten. So when you set the bar of prestige that allowed you to get into zones, it would mean every half rate rogue could get in, but legendary leaders like Corth couldn't, prestige woul have to be significantly changed for this idea to make any sense.

Vigis wrote:For one thing, as a true newb, you don't hit 50 all that soon.

Yes they do. Then they ask for a well back from DS to WD.


And how is this a very bad thing?

Will not knowing the way to DS effect how the player knows their class? -Nope. It's about the fight itself, not getting to the fight.

Will not knowing the way to DS effect how the player zones?- Nope.

Will not knowing the way to DS effect the player having fun?- Nope....and if it does, the noob will learn the way.

Not knowing little things like that doesn't mean anything more than every member in a zone group not knowing the way to the zone they are about to kill in- Not a DAMN thing. They will get there and have fun regardless.

Think before you speak...err type...


Nurpy, the problem is there's less and less people who know the way to stuff. And if those people leave all people will do for "zoning exp" is wd fountain fights (assuming they can get to the wd fountain from the inn).

Pril


Making the assumption that someone who plays here will never learn the way to and from DS given that noone else knows the way is a huge exaggeration at best. So is the suggestion that those that do know are going to all disappear one day. Come on man, get real. there will always be followers, and even they will learn whether they want to or not.
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Postby Ambar » Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:24 am

Nurpy, Nurpy, Nurpy ..

see the trees thru the forest hun...

a basic game knowledge is SOO essential.. this includes locations of MAJOR places .. since DS is THE xp spot, you really should know how to get there ...

goodies asking for wells to WD from DS ... evils asking for wormholes to DK from VT .. sad, sad






mmmm a use for prestige .. mmm :) all them loverly tokens!
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:01 am

Ambar wrote:Nurpy, Nurpy, Nurpy ..

see the trees thru the forest hun...

a basic game knowledge is SOO essential.. this includes locations of MAJOR places .. since DS is THE xp spot, you really should know how to get there ...

goodies asking for wells to WD from DS ... evils asking for wormholes to DK from VT .. sad, sad






mmmm a use for prestige .. mmm :) all them loverly tokens!


Ambar, Ambar, Ambar..

you would have to be a complete moron with an IQ of about 50 to not eventually learn the way to DS after being taken there and leveled there from 30-50. Bitching about them not knowing at the beginning is pointless.

And since when is it essential to know where DS is when you will eventually learn how to get there one way or another, and when you don't you always have someone to get you there?

And just because a newbie asks for a well from ds to wd/dk to vt doesn't mean they don't know the way. Don't confuse laziness with ignorance.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:53 am

Get back in the attic Nurpy!
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Postby Ambar » Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:11 pm

there are people who still can't plane walk, can't get to IC, to BG .. are they lazy or just spoon fed new players?

people are SOOOOO wanting to attract new folks .. the new folks get spoon fed eq and xp .. this a bad thing? not necessarily .. but learning the mud is an essential part of game play ...

once again .. mmm prestige use
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:55 pm

Ambar wrote:there are people who still can't plane walk, can't get to IC, to BG .. are they lazy or just spoon fed new players?

people are SOOOOO wanting to attract new folks .. the new folks get spoon fed eq and xp .. this a bad thing? not necessarily .. but learning the mud is an essential part of game play ...

once again .. mmm prestige use


And if they want to learn the mud, they will....til then they will follow others and still have fun.
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Postby Sarell » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:27 am

It's not just not knowing the way between two zones that are next to eachother Nurpy. It's that I bring them to a big zone and all they can do is type 'assist ptank'. They are level 50 and havn't fought a mob that casts for example. You could be the most prestigous char on the mud and never have left DS under current sytem.
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Postby Birile » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:36 pm

I was going to make a response that no one would be silly enough to bring 15 rogues to a zone (which is true, they wouldn't) but that doesn't answer the problem brought up about exp giving prestige--because everyone would just roll a rogue and get said rogue's prestige up to the requisite amount simply so they could do whatever zone required the high prestige. Sounds stupid that people would do that but... they would.

How sad.

So I'm going to say that yeah, I do agree that having exp tied to prestige gain under the current exp system (that where some classes gain exp at a far easier pace than other classes) would make any sort of prestige system slanted at best and unfair and unbalancing in the worst-case scenario.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:17 pm

Sarell wrote:It's not just not knowing the way between two zones that are next to eachother Nurpy. It's that I bring them to a big zone and all they can do is type 'assist ptank'. They are level 50 and havn't fought a mob that casts for example. You could be the most prestigous char on the mud and never have left DS under current sytem.


I agree with you there.
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