assassinate

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kiryan
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assassinate

Postby kiryan » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:14 pm

allow rogues to assassinate only human sized (and slightly larger or smaller) targets preserving theme and largely eliminating a very twinky skill for a class that has plenty of useful abilities.

let rangers have an ability to assassinate any size mob (level restricted) or instead add a very very low percentage chance (modified by arrow stats) for rangers to one shot kill mobs of any size per missile. This is your storybook shot in the eye.

Rogues will lose a lot of solo twinkness and some extra power they dont really need. Rangers will gain some more ability to kill mobs and won't be able to twink it as badly as rogues do without sneak/hide.

I'm not really sure I agree with this idea, but i thought it was an interesting one.
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Postby Waelos » Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:02 am

I like the concept. If we can convince the powers that be that we need to bring rogues back down to earth in power, that is.


A few tweaks/suggestions:

Tweaks to rogues:
1) Allow rogues to assinate humanoid mobs only (giants excluded). This keeps in the theme of "realism".
2) Remove rogue double attack entirely.
3) Add a chance to instant kill certain mobs (within a size limit) that are nasty/ph(?) just like garrote does on a successful circle (base this chance off of assassinate skill)

Result - Rogues lose the 'straight up' melee ability they never should have had, but make up for that in a stealth/anatomy damage capacity.

Tweaks to Rangers-

1) Push double attack to mastery along with "surprise" (make this a masterable skill!). Add a skill that is checked, along with these two skills) that goes off reflexively that adds an extra attack or perhaps a disarm effect.

2) Go with Kiryan's idea with the following tweak - This % chance to assassinate any size mob only works ONLY on non missile aware mobs. (basically, all mobs start out !aware, but once you shoot at them they get flagged as missile aware. From that point on, they are nearly impossible to hit from room to room anyway).

3) Make it so that afire does not trigger the missile aware flag. That way it is more likely that a ranger can smite a mob that has run away (which is cool!)

4) Or - Adjust Kiryan's idea to above, but don't make it instant kill, just a % of the mob's hps. So, if a mob has 100 hps, a "critical" (or whatever you want to call it) does 25% damage (25 hps).


All in all I think it is an interesting idea, and viable if implemented correctly.


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Postby Botef » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:26 am

Waelos wrote:2) Remove rogue double attack entirely.
3) Add a chance to instant kill certain mobs (within a size limit) that are nasty/ph(?) just like garrote does on a successful circle (base this chance off of assassinate skill)


Or could make this into a classkit or an Assassin class itself along with a few other twists.

Otherwise I agree on the humanoid thing, and wouldn't mind seeing rangers/dires get some kind of instant kill archery.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:43 am

Shot in the heart! And you're too blame, you give (ranger) love a bad name!

It's time for rogues to go the way of the old mages. Crack them into a couple classes.
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Postby Sarell » Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:34 am

I think rogues and assassinate are cool. Now and then you assassinate something cool and it is fun, but I like that in a game. I don't see it being unbalancing excepting where areas are crazily written like those things on magma grid were. Do mobs have a !assass flag or immune to crit flag? They should.

I love the ideas of rangers getting super cool criticals that have adverse effects on mobs (like bows are automaticalls restrung to have gythka and ebony procs!). Bleeding, blindness, incap/slow, para, death.
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Postby Nilan » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:45 am

I didnt think Rangers (all honorable and good) are supposed to be involved in assassinations.

I could be wrong but didnt think thats what a ranger does.

Nilan
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Postby Botef » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:21 am

Nilan wrote:I didnt think Rangers (all honorable and good) are supposed to be involved in assassinations.

I could be wrong but didnt think thats what a ranger does.

Nilan


Maybe if it only worked on a rangers enemy of focus or whatever its called in D&D were you pick a 'type' of creature at character creation that you get bonuses for, etc when smiting.
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Postby Sylvos » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:22 am

Nilan wrote:I didnt think Rangers (all honorable and good)


Man, you been lookin at the wrong rangers lately pigsticker :P
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Postby Nilan » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:25 am

Laugh heheh Sylvos (grin)

You are right, heh
I forgot this is the realms where evil is good and good is evil :)

Silly me,

Still I am not understanding the reasoning behind assassinate as a ranger skill. Maybe im missing something
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Postby Latreg » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:19 am

Nilan wrote:Laugh heheh Sylvos (grin)

You are right, heh
I forgot this is the realms where evil is good and good is evil :)

Silly me,

Still I am not understanding the reasoning behind assassinate as a ranger skill. Maybe im missing something


It really should be called and instant kill, eg. You arrow flies true striking Pril in the throat (eye,heart,faimly Jewels,pick one) he grabs the(his) shaft and falls dead.
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Postby Birile » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:14 pm

I prefer to call it Bullseye. :P
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Postby Raiwen » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:16 pm

Latreg wrote:It really should be called and instant kill, eg. You arrow flies true striking Pril in the throat (eye,heart,faimly Jewels,pick one) he grabs the(his) shaft and falls dead.

hehehe.. you said shaft.. heheheh
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Postby Thilindel » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:37 pm

No he said throat, mmm heh heh heh! Yeah, and then he said 'shaft' heh hehhehehehehe!

Anyway, it should be called fatal strike :P
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Postby Nekelet » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:45 pm

Thilindel wrote:No he said throat, mmm heh heh heh! Yeah, and then he said 'shaft' heh hehhehehehehe!


Shut up, Beavis. heh heheh heheheh mmm heh
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Postby Selias » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:57 pm

yah, maybe rogues should be split into 2 classes like they used to be. Back in the days of thieves and assassins, sneak/hide wasn't as powerful. Now that it is a great set of skills, you could make 2 classes out of the rogue

1) Thief - Master at sneak/hide, but not so good at damage with assassinate/double attack.

2) Assassin - Great at damage w/poison, assassinate, and double attack, but doesn't get very good hide/sneak.

To keep the classes from being one trick ponies, keep it so the skill caps for pick lock, trip, garrote, etc. are equal for the classes. Does one class need to be the master at exploring, CR, and single target melee damage?
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:11 pm

I don't think think we want to re-split the rogue class into thief and assassin. I think it was combined because the skillsets were too similar and had nothing to really distinguish one from the other. Before evasion, hide, trip and garrotte rogues enjoyed less group invites than rangers.

At best I think we want to tweak rogues a bit to emphasize their roguish skills and downplay their damage some then tweak rangers to emphasize their damage/mob killing ability further.

In general im against making rangers more like rogues, but I think putting some additional restrictions on rogue assassinate would be good for the game and adding it to rangers would preserve the existence of the game dynamic.

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