What if rangers had a sneak spell

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kiryan
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What if rangers had a sneak spell

Postby kiryan » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:40 am

elves get sneak (elvenkind)
those 4 godly studs who have volos get sneak...
rogues get sneak
rangers and druids get outdoor sneak
most UD races get underdark sneak

what if we added a sneak spell to rangers/dire raiders? or is sneak still too powerful of an ability to allow unpriveleged people access to?
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Postby Llaaldara » Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:08 pm

Grinding that axe again I see..
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Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:31 pm

It's more like a wielded piece of driftwood.
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Postby Birile » Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:03 pm

Would this be self-only, K?
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Postby Dalar » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:02 pm

Shoulda bought that WoW account man
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Postby kiryan » Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:39 pm

no castable on others to give rangers some utility that might be seen as valuable in a group setting.

i would've bought that wow account if i was invited to more stuff. i still might play some more wow, but still on the fence.
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Postby Stamm » Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:46 pm

While I accept that would give rangers more utility. I don't see it as any way desirable or in with what rangers are.

Ranger spells are supposed to enhance their natural abilities, and they aren't enchanter type characters. I'm surprised their barkskin, di, etc etc work on other characters at all.

Sneak itself isn't very good compared to the insanely powerful (by comparison) ability to move while hidden.

A ranger spell called 'blend' or something like that, with no casting time wouldn't be a bad idea though.

Would cause rangers to hide, but stick it in at 6th circle, where they're not going to get a huge amount of them.
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Postby Gormal » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:44 am

with elvenkind in the game this mostly affects poor little human rangers... i like the idea! cause human rangers get the deep dry shaft currently.
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Postby Deltin » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:09 pm

rangers are supose to be hunters/trackers as I understand it, don't know why they wouldn't have outdoor hide.
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Postby Birile » Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:58 pm

If this isn't self-only I think its twink potential is far too high.
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Postby Stamm » Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:15 pm

Birile wrote:If this isn't self-only I think its twink potential is far too high.


Absolutely. I should have been more specific.
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Postby kiryan » Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:22 am

the twink potential is too high?

sneak is all around us and has been for years.
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Postby Stamm » Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:34 pm

Yeah, but never targetable. A whole group hasn't been able to sneak unless it's a group entirely of elves wearing elvenkind, or UD sneak races. So while I don't object to rangers getting either or both of a self sneak and self hide spell, I wouldn't like to see them able to cast it on other targets.
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Postby Birile » Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:21 pm

Stamm wrote:Yeah, but never targetable. A whole group hasn't been able to sneak unless it's a group entirely of elves wearing elvenkind, or UD sneak races. So while I don't object to rangers getting either or both of a self sneak and self hide spell, I wouldn't like to see them able to cast it on other targets.


Precisely.
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Postby kiryan » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:34 pm

name the twinkiest use of sneak in a !teleport zone (otherwise you'd just use a rogue and fold).

Describe how it would be worse if a whole group could sneak (vs getting a sneaking summoner to summon or reusing a set of volos).

sneak is a powerful ability, however with so many existing sneakers I'm having a hard time seeing where making it a targetable ranger spell would impact the game significantly.

Imo a targetted sneak spell would take a little focus off rogues, and give quite a bit of small and large group utility to rangers.
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Postby Yasden » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:43 pm

So would a third arm so they could flip us all off while they dual wielded. :P
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Postby Lahgen » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:54 pm

Perhaps it wouldn't be twinky in a zone situation, but solo or small group exploring it could be even more twinky. I'll leave it to those who are more knowledgeable to explain how, though.
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Postby kiryan » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:42 pm

your worried about the ranger exploring solo with sneak?

or worried that an explorer would seek out and invite a ranger to go exploring with him?

or worried that a small group would seek out an invite a ranger for sneak spell?


how is getting more people involved a bad thing? If sneak is a good tool for exploring (which it is), and we in general want more people to explore, how is it a bad thing to give it to them (especially considering its a spell that would need to be refreshed)? As far as rangers getting to do some twinky stuff solo... remember they have outdoor sneak and probably 90% of existing level 50 rangers can wear elvenkind.

maybe it shouldn't be a spell... maybe it should be an innate that affects the entire group. Perhaps it should just affect people following the ranger...
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Postby Pril » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:27 pm

kiryan wrote:your worried about the ranger exploring solo with sneak?

or worried that an explorer would seek out and invite a ranger to go exploring with him?

or worried that a small group would seek out an invite a ranger for sneak spell?


how is getting more people involved a bad thing? If sneak is a good tool for exploring (which it is), and we in general want more people to explore, how is it a bad thing to give it to them (especially considering its a spell that would need to be refreshed)? As far as rangers getting to do some twinky stuff solo... remember they have outdoor sneak and probably 90% of existing level 50 rangers can wear elvenkind.

maybe it shouldn't be a spell... maybe it should be an innate that affects the entire group. Perhaps it should just affect people following the ranger...


Mike here's the problem. 2 man smiting with ranger/illus. there's a reason that illusionists can't wear an elvenkind man, an illusionist with sneak would be sick. There's 3 illusionists in the game atm that can sneak atm and 1 of them is busy at the fountain of WD :p

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Last edited by Pril on Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby auslyx » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:29 pm

kiryan wrote:maybe it should be an innate that affects the entire group. Perhaps it should just affect people following the ranger...


I met Michael Jordan twice, and got to hang with him in one of his commercial shoots. Too bad his basketball prowress didn't rub off on me! I guess it shouldn't on a group either =D
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Postby kiryan » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:11 am

theres 3 illusionists in the game with sneak....

That right there is one of the most compelling arguments that SNEAK could and perhaps should be available in another form like a ranger ability/spell.

How can you argue that its too powerful too twinky or whatever when there are 3 sets of volos in active play and an ungodly number of elvenkinds to go with a large # of elven players?
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Postby Sarell » Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:13 am

Illusionist sneak hasn't mattered for years. I still like the idea of sneak gear being special. Just because one person or one class has a spell or ability doesn't mean everyone should, makes it boring and everyone starts doing everything the same way.
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Postby Birile » Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:52 pm

Yeah, and then everyone would roll up human female rangers.

:twisted:
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Postby kiryan » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:59 pm

Sneak gear will still be special in allowing you to be self-reliant.

A spell or targetable effect will just keep sneak from being unavailable to non elves and people with volos and create more ranger enabled synergy in small groups.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:18 pm

If you are against sneak, give an example. "No, it's bad" makes you look like you know nothing. Oh hey, Pril is talking.
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Postby Yasden » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:00 pm

Birile wrote:Yeah, and then everyone would roll up human female rangers.

:twisted:


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Postby Birile » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:57 pm

Yasden wrote:
Birile wrote:Yeah, and then everyone would roll up human female rangers.

:twisted:


Didn't you know? Recurve bow has a +10/+10 bonus for them.


So I heard. *nod*

:twisted:
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Postby Lahgen » Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:27 pm

I know it was a joke, but it wouldn't be unprecedented. There is, after all, a special order of female rangers known as the Swanmay. Or something like that. Someone who remembers his FR lore can comment.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'

Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone

Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'



Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."

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