Stop the Auctions

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Latreg
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Stop the Auctions

Postby Latreg » Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:07 pm

Lots of talk has been about the large amounts of gear in the game, mostly unused. Certainly the auction system adds to this problem. Ever been out bid on something you really were going to use only to see it go up on auction? Ever buy something from a zone you've never been too? yeah me too. sure it gives plats a value, but like I have said it's much easier to get plats than to zone for these items, no exploring needed. How about that last quest item you need.....Oh it has stats so that's not problem for someone to sell it, no need to get it on your own. I think is also part of the "value of a character" that Kiryan was talking about. I'd love to do quests with no or very little help, but with many quests that's not possible. And seeing something on auction you need is just too tempting.
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Arilin Nydelahar
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:07 pm

I think that's just a copout. It won't change anything but the fact that the FS/FT boards in wd/vt and on the bbs here will be more active again that's all.
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Latreg
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Postby Latreg » Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:06 pm

well people shouldn't complain about the gear or dumbing down the mud when clearly the auction has made it easier.
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Lilira
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Postby Lilira » Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:25 pm

*sigh*

The only thing auction has done is made it easier for other people to acquire gear. It has done nothing to keep so much of it from being in the game. God.. I remember times I'd be on for 4 hours waiting for someone to log on and meet them so I could get the gear I wanted to buy. Auction I believe also went in before mmail did so making arrangements to meet was difficult. BTW.. at least playing to earn the money, you're still working for the eq instead of having it handed to you.

Auction and the removal of outcasting has also made it easier for evils to procure eq. I could really go off the deep end and say "BRING BACK OUTCASTING BABY!!!!" Back when it was still in, If I wanted something from an evil-raced character we ran out into the middle of nowhere, dropped the plat, stepped away a few rooms, they dropped the item and scooped up the cash then walked away letting you grab the stuff. But wait.. if we bring back outcasting, there goes all the neutral humans who help the evil races. Yes, I'm aware of the detrimental effects it would have because half the time I'm asked to bring my human invoker over my high-level evil-raced char.

Last comment... The economy in the game is already suffering because basically plats are worthless. Lets not take away the auction and put the final bullet in an already dying institution.
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Postby Yasden » Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:08 pm

There's no difference between paying 10p for HP eq than there is a high level person giving the eq away. At least with the auctioneer's commission rate (5%-10%), some of the plat is taken out of the game in the exchange.

Not to mention, not everyone has the time to go to zones like Clouds and Musp invasion, as they're casual mudders with limited time. By making this equipment available to them through the auction, they can experience the power gain by better equipment. If you want to stop the influx of eq into the game, implement eq damaging/wear&tear. There's really no other way of doing it, short of equipment wiping, or voluntary duckponding.

The auction also forces sellers to NOT attempt to rip off people who are trying to scrounge up plat to buy that one nice thing. By items coming onto the auction from time to time, a general trend is set for asking price, and normally most people will stop bidding when that price exceeds what they're used to seeing the "norm" as.

If you've ever taken any microeconomics, you'll understand that the auction system, along with the "declining value of plat" is simply the result of inflation combined with the supply and demand chart. If you continually sell the same item(s) over and over, the profit that you net will steadily decrease as the demand is met, and the supply diminishes until they reach equilibrium.

However, if you STOP selling those items for a long while, and they come from an obscure zone, or something people just don't sell very often, the going rate for said item usually raises back to its original price, unless that item becomes obsolete due to a better choice.

That said, the auction is very much a viable part of the economy, and would do very well if tied in directly to some sort of trade system like we had before. Personally, I'd rather WIN an item from a zone than buy, but if I need the item in a hurry or I'm helping someone else out, I'm more than glad to support the MUD's economy.
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Re: Stop the Auctions

Postby Yarash » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:36 am

Latreg wrote:Ever been out bid on something you really were going to use only to see it go up on auction?

This was going on long before the auction system was implemented. Plus, you can't fix a cultural problem with a code change.

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Postby kiryan » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:58 am

I think the auction is good for the economy. It may be bad for personal achievement and competition, but is a good tool for a real economy. It creates an open market helping buyers get a fair price and sellers have a larger market. The plat sink is probably more effective than any of the others minus vit potions, acc fees, and practices on pleveled alts, but hardly notable (i believe).

I don't see how eliminating auction will improve the economy. If anything it does drive prices down allowing newer, poorer players to participate. I've met quite a few newbies who actually bought eq they could use on auction.

The buying and selling of quest eq is really a dated rule and policy and might as well be removed. The rule about hoarding quest eq is enough to intervene if someone is abusing quest eq, and with the new eq calcr and revitalizing zones by making new quests with old crappy eq, all quest items have stats and are therefore fair game for buying/trading/selling. Really, the spirit of that policy was always to keep people from thinking they could corner the market on a hot quest to prevent them from completing it or to rape them in trades.

The problem with the economy is there are huge fluctuations in parity between effort/eq and platinum... This is partly because the pbase is so top heavy with the majority of people interested in only 1st tier eq, partly because there is more 2nd/3rd tier than demand (few newbies no way to sink equipment) and thirdly because more plat enters the game than exits the game. If there we are gaining 5k plat a day, only 1k is leaving game (through quests and buying potions ect) so inflation is a mega problem.

In order to revitalize the economy, you need two things.

1. enough voluntary plat sinks that encourage people to remove more plat from the game than is coming in (people will start farming plat and thats what you want to see).

2. enough voluntary eq sinks that bring up the value of 2nd/3rd tier equipment closer to in line with eq calcr "value". This could be as easy as putting in the plat sinks then making eq convert to plat at a ratio comparable to eq calcr "value".

---

if you wanted to see people only acquiring eq they could use, which i think is good and fair in moderation, i'd implement a real !drop flag, one where you couldn't transfer the eq to another player by any means including death/corpse rot ect. That would help give players more value (because the !drop eq becomes an extension of that char rather than something any of their chars can wear).
Latreg
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Postby Latreg » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:47 pm

It's not like I really hate the auction or anything, but it has taken something things away from the game. Remember when guilds held live auctions? That was a lot of fun. You got to see lots of different gear (what people where wearing), you met people from both sides, good and evils. And it was just a large, fun social event. Farming plats is a solo thing, so who really cares if they have any value or not. Trading with someone made you meet them face to face at least. It was more work before the auction, writing messages on the board, arranging to meet someone etc. I guess what I would like to see is a toning down of the current auction system, encouraging guild auctions and social events like that. Maybe increase the auction fees if the item goes over 1k in plats or put a limit on the time, if it reaches 1k it's sold, auction ends. Hopefully you can kind of understand where I'm coming from.
Talona responds to your petition with 'Sweet, I fixed something!'

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Some people are like slinkies, not really good for anything but you still cant help smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.
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Postby kiryan » Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:45 pm

live auctions happened even when the auction system was in place, it just takes so much time to organize and do. Also, there was a lot of plat floating around and a disconnect with prices when live auctions were popular.

This resulted in people paying outrageous prices for easy gear. After a few auctions, the excess plat was removed to a personal/guild account and prices came back to reality and live auctions became a buyers market eliminating some of the impetus to conduct them. I'm sure SoI organizes them for fun, but the plat I bet was nice.

More interaction is probably better than less, but if you think about it, the only thing auction is really used for is a place to get rid of junk. You don't see 1st tier gear on the auction because there is virtually no amount of plat that could buy a 1st tier item from most current players and for good reason. So all the trading and shouting and board writes are still in effect, just all the crap that was cluttering up the channels has moved to the auction.

Its really not worth my time to negotiate, find and sell you something for 50, 100, 250 plat even 500 plat.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:50 pm

PWIPE
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:33 am

Nothin will bring back the days of live auctions in WD. When people would stop zonin and shit to come participate in the auctioning of a satchel of many pockets or a heavy coat.
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Postby Tasan » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:25 am

What's the point of having a guild auction... there is no kingdom code. Yay for money that pays for... nothing.
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Postby Sarell » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:28 am

I like auctions, but I do have a great idea for a plat sink. If you have over 1K, you should give it to Krenalazmagg for potions and other consumables, he's getting damn near broke the poor little fella.
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Postby Ifin » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:05 pm

Yay Kingdom Code. Or heck, we don't even need Kingdom "Code".

Please Kingdom Code Policy. Plat + EQ Sink + Competition FTW.
Lilira
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Postby Lilira » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:34 pm

Personal houses..

Here's to buying a house then paying "repair" costs and prestige points! (sound familiar yet Oh ye EQers?)
~\o--Lilira Shadowlyre--o/~

You group-say 'my chars will carry the component on them if I can.'
Inama group-says 'hopefully they'll have some sort of volume discounts on ress items for people like you'
You group-say 'oh? Ya think? *giggle*'
Inama group-says 'they could at least implement frequent dier miles'

Suzalize group-says 'oh, eya's over weight i bet'
Ifin
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Postby Ifin » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:47 pm

Great point Lilira - another bonus why Kingdom Code Policy would've been such an awesome addition to the game - on-going maintenance for Plat/Eq etc. sinks while allowing players to grow in other ways besides eq on themselves.

Eq glut is the #1 problem on the game right now. Older players have all, and quit or may not want to zone or when they do and they bid on items the people who don't have it think they're greedy. Newer players get handed all mid-level eq so they miss out on much talked about mid-level game and go straight to high level stuff.

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