2.0 grouping restrictions

Submit and discuss your ideas for the MUD.

When 2.0 kicks in, goodrace and evilrace

SHOULD be allowed to group without restrictions
14
38%
NEVER should group and mix
11
30%
should NOT mix, also remove "neutral race"
4
11%
can stay the same, except add Half-elf to Neutral race
4
11%
need a toggle for RP. If it's off, you can group with whoever you choose. It is a fantasy game afterall.
4
11%
 
Total votes: 37
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2.0 grouping restrictions

Postby Drache » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:36 pm

Considering the pbase, and for playability, ease of use, forming zoning groups, and overall fun - Why did you pick what you did?
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Postby Branthur » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:05 pm

Ummm..where's the option for "depends on what races look like when 2.0 comes in"?

Seriously, Nonox stated in another post why they should be kept seperate now. The two sides are balanced in different ways (troll warriors and elven mages, etc), leaving many race/classes that would never get a group again.

On the other hand, if races change a lot with 2.0, then I imagine it could be discussed. Asking about race restrictions when Shev hasn't said anything ABOUT the races yet seems silly at best.
Last edited by Branthur on Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tasan » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:27 pm

Agree w/ Branth completely. Until we know if races are all balanced w/ !restriction grouping it will be impossible to vote. Personally I think !restrictions will only further reduce the already unused class/race combos.

Oh and Branth, that was me, not Kiryan!
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Postby Branthur » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:39 pm

Oops, sorry bout that. Fixed it. :P
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Postby Yarash » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:23 pm

Branthur wrote:...many race/classes that would never get a group again.


Tasan wrote:...!restrictions will only further reduce the already unused class/race combos.


We are at the point where people should not be too picky about what race a certain classed person is. When you are the only player on of a needed class, the leader is not going to fuss about your race.

- Mike
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Postby Branthur » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:32 pm

OK, here's the point I was trying to bring across.

We don't know what things are going to look like when 2.0 goes in. Not the races. Not the classes. Not the attributes. Nothing. Sure, Shev has posted some things, but honestly, being told about something and actually playing it are two different things.

You know what we also don't know about? What the pbase will look like when 2.0 comes in. We might be in the same boat with a very low pbase, where something like removing all grouping restrictions will be needed. We might have a spike in pbase with old players returning when it goes in. We might have a spike in pbase with new players coming in to play a "3.0 MUD" (yes, not entirely I know, but we could advertise it that way!). The changes might suck mightily, and everyone will leave. Even with low pbase, the races might not group together well across good/evil, like they wouldn't now. They could be just fine grouping together. WE DON'T KNOW.

This poll is silly and premature at best.
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Postby Disoputlip » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:55 pm

I really like it as it is.

There are a few changes I would like:
only evil humans (those -350 and lower) should be able to group with evils. (This would mean no rangers and Druids).

Why halfelves? Personally I think barbarians in general is lower align.

The reason I prefer just humans is that is promotes playing humans, and that is needed. Promoting barbs or half-elves doesn't really matter for me. I am especially afraid that evil shamans would almost dissapear if you added barbarians.

You could add a bazillion new entries to the poll, at it still wouldn't satisfy what people think.
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Postby Thilindel » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:15 pm

I, for one, like how Lahgen plays what he wants to play. He picks a race or class because he wishes to play it. Not appease what some group leader is looking to fill. If fear of not being picked were a problem, then they could only offer a class, available to only one race. Much like playing psionist is only available to illithids. That'd fix everything :P

This game is for fun. Your skill in a particular class should matter. Not what race/class combo you've chosen.
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Postby Tasan » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:02 pm

Thilindel wrote:Your skill in a particular class should matter.


Should. Here and now it doesn't.

Yarash wrote:We are at the point where people should not be too picky about what race a certain classed person is.


Not my point at all. My point is people will roll the best race/class combos and you will have mostly the exact same groups. Yes there are always going to be people who don't care about powergaming, but the entire pbase has gradually shifted towards more powergaming since the dwindling numbers started.
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Postby Latreg » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:19 pm

give the current situations, using the opposite side to fill out groups so you can do a zone I think would be ok. BC as an example if it means doing it or not because of not enough people, seems zoning would be better than not for the mud and the players, but I would say only 2 out of the 15 should be of the opposite side and even then only if they are required to do a zone. For example if we can't get enough for friday, no BC run, if we could add 2 evils and then we could do it, that is a good thing. This would really require leaders to police themselves and only use people of the other side when it is absolutely necessary.
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Postby Lilira » Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:30 am

I selected "Leave the same but add half-elves" cus it was the closest to leave it as is. People have so many bloody alts its not even THAT much of an issue.

BTW.. if you add half-elves, make them WD only. One raised on Leuth would have been trained from birth to hate evil races, esp Drow and orcs, whereas WD is much more of a melting pot of attitudes.

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Another option

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:55 am

Make all evil race characters pick a goodie version and delete all evil races. It should have been done about 2 years ago. Would have done wonders for pbase, zoning, etc, etc.

Omg I'm lurking. Must...resist....Corthing.
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Postby Yasden » Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:01 am

You really need to add a line to your sig.

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Re: Another option

Postby Lilira » Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:18 am

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Make all evil race characters pick a goodie version and delete all evil races. It should have been done about 2 years ago. Would have done wonders for pbase, zoning, etc, etc.


Fie on you Sir!!!

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Inama group-says 'hopefully they'll have some sort of volume discounts on ress items for people like you'
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Suzalize group-says 'oh, eya's over weight i bet'
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Re: Another option

Postby Lorsalian » Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:46 am

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Make all evil race characters pick a goodie version and delete all evil races. It should have been done about 2 years ago. Would have done wonders for pbase, zoning, etc, etc.

Omg I'm lurking. Must...resist....Corthing.


Yes, because taking away someone's favorite character is going to make them want to make a totally new character, and then xp them.

Hey ... just because I only know one or two people whose favorite characters are evilrace and don't have any goodrace doesn't mean more don't exist, right?

Right? ... *crickets*

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Postby Gormal » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:31 am

Personally, I think that with how easy levelling characters is nowadays, grouping resctrictions should stay the same. Goodrace players need to make an effort to level up evils and do zones from time to time. The vast majority of the most skilled players are primarily playing goodies anymore, and I think that's the main deterrent for people to go to the dark side. Get a group of friends and level up essential evil classes instead of a 1000th goodie alt!
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Postby Ifin » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:38 am

Well I think right now while some people will lvl up the perfect race/class combo, w/the pbase if a human war is available to zone we would zone w/a human warrior.

And while it can be considered "easier" to lvl nowadays I suppose, it still takes time and, and if goodies did go evil etc. then all that would mean is that goodies wouldn't be able to zone.

With the following statement I'm not saying it to insult the evils in general, but going to be frank w/my assessment: when they do zone, it's twice the length and spankage as when goodies zone, which is a combination of their current state of eq, and yes experience/skill. It's not just about leadership either, it's also individual players and what they know about their class roles.

And because of that, even goodies w/evil alts sometimes don't want to zone w/evils b/c it's not "efficient".

And the most "goodies" I would say could be added to an evil zone group would be probably 2-5, cuz' you can't expect evils to drop their regulars for a goodie when they zone - they don't zone enough so when they do it should be the regulars evils who get the slots.

I say how once in a long time we allow multi-day, we maybe allow evils and goodies to group like one weekend a month or something like that. Yes it's not RP, but the point of a game is to have fun, and if things aren't happening b/c of pbase then it's not a fun game.

In this scenario hopefully 2-5 evils can join a majority goodie group, learn about the zone effectively, do zones that they almost never do, and maybe even upgrade their eq significantly, all of which will be useful when they rejoin their racial groups.

In fact I think Nerox said he wanted a full day of just zoning, which is a fun idea. I bet if such a date was set, we wouldn't be able to get a full group of goodies to commit. But let's say Gods are willing to allow this day and open up racial restrictions, I bet we can get 1/2 goodies and 1/2 evils to commit, and they would sure learn and bring back a lot to their side.

Once evils really start getting their groove, I think it will open up stuff in general for the pbase, as now in downtime goodies would be more open to join evil zones, and w/these relationships perhaps evils would start goodie alts, and everyone would have more options.
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Postby Malacar » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:02 pm

Gormal wrote:Personally, I think that with how easy levelling characters is nowadays, grouping resctrictions should stay the same. Goodrace players need to make an effort to level up evils and do zones from time to time. The vast majority of the most skilled players are primarily playing goodies anymore, and I think that's the main deterrent for people to go to the dark side. Get a group of friends and level up essential evil classes instead of a 1000th goodie alt!


No.
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Postby Demuladon » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:56 pm

Ifin wrote:With the following statement I'm not saying it to insult the evils in general, but going to be frank w/my assessment: when they do zone, it's twice the length and spankage as when goodies zone, which is a combination of their current state of eq, and yes experience/skill. It's not just about leadership either, it's also individual players and what they know about their class roles.

And because of that, even goodies w/evil alts sometimes don't want to zone w/evils b/c it's not "efficient".


How about.. what you see as inefficient zoning evils see as fun game playing?

Perhaps those left playing evils are there for some fun?
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Postby Ifin » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:38 pm

In response to Demuladon, acutally that's something I forgot to mention. You guys do seem to have a lot of fun in what you do, and that's why perhaps time isn't a concern.

And again if you know me I don't mind grouping with you guys, but I'm just commenting on the whole game in general.

But I know that some evils still do want to do bigger zones, progress their characters with eq, and it can also be fun if not funner when zones do go more smoother. Goodies have fun too. And it's not going to happen if you guys write it off as having fun instead of "doesn't matter if you learn or not but that you're there" (if that's the argument being made). And again, I'm not saying this as a slam.

But if it boils down to two sub-cultures, where one is more experienced, and another very less but doesn't matter, then removing grouping restrictions is a moot point.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:51 pm

Malacar wrote:No.


You lazy bastard!


I'm going to have to throw my opinion in with Ifin that evils are generally less skilled than their goodie counterparts. The ones who switch sides typically become much more skillful after a little while of grouping with people who can teach them. I'm not sure how taking more time and dying more (translating to more time doing mindless exp) equates to fun, but its your time so enjoy it how you want I guess. Myself, I'll settle for another zone instead of twice as long to do one, unless I get to hate on Maxler as he spanks us all over whatever zone he's chosen that day.
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:55 am

I can see the fun aspect of it. A spank = adrenaline rush, and for those who miss the days of edge-of-the-seat zoning, where finishing the zone is a real accomplishment and you actually had to put in WORK to do it, you're not going to find it in flawless, clockwork zoning.

Zoning used to be a real group effort, where people had to stay on their toes and work together whether they liked it, or not. Nowadays you get in with a good group leader, fill the group with level 50s, or close, who have been around the block dozens of times, and people zombie throughout most of the experience.

Actually... zoning nowadays is more of a social event than a challenge.
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Postby Gormal » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:35 am

I think that puts the reponsibility for boredom back onto the zone leaders, its a lot of fun to not take a 15-man hardcore group and level zones or drudge through the longer ones. It is, however, quite entertaining to let people play the classes they want and see what you can accomplish without your ideal setup or numbers. That way the challenge is in the game, not in the 'factor' of someone who makes a mistake.
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Postby Malacar » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:38 pm

Gormal wrote:
Malacar wrote:No.


You lazy bastard!


Yes.
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Postby Tasan » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:35 pm

Gormal wrote:I think that puts the reponsibility for boredom back onto the zone leaders, its a lot of fun to not take a 15-man hardcore group and level zones or drudge through the longer ones. It is, however, quite entertaining to let people play the classes they want and see what you can accomplish without your ideal setup or numbers. That way the challenge is in the game, not in the 'factor' of someone who makes a mistake.


The problem is you can't take less than 15 to the zones that people want to do. No one wants to do zones you can do w/ 9-13 people. Content needs to be moved around.
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Postby Gormal » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:49 pm

I'd be willing to bet that we can do most "15-man" zones with 13 people. The social attitude of "We can take 15, so why exclude people?" has taken over, even moreso with the dwindling pbase. I support taking a full group of 15 people for this reason mind you, but perhaps leaders can to be more creative from time to time.

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