update mundane stuffs

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Latreg
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update mundane stuffs

Postby Latreg » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:14 pm

first remove most of the "silver weapons" and give them a proc of sorts against undead, remember finding that new sword with silver so you could go kill undead in the table top D&D? Make some of the cleric weapons and or holy water containers, weapons that you can load with holy/unholy water kind of like apply poison, but it would be more of a cause light. I know I'd be spraying all the evils down with it.

also give mobs weapons that would normally have them ie cm orcs etc. it's just so silly to get hit with a bare hand when I'm wearing full plate armor, take your hand and punch some plate steel and see how it feels. We wear helmets and metal armor, bare hands won't do it.
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Re: update mundane stuffs

Postby Cirath » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:56 pm

Latreg wrote:first remove most of the "silver weapons" and give them a proc of sorts against undead, remember finding that new sword with silver so you could go kill undead in the table top D&D?


No, not really. Lycanthropes, maybe, but the only undead with a silver vulnerability were vampires. However, fear not! It is more than likely that with 2.0 and the introduction of damage reduction, silver weapons (and adamantine weapons, and aligned weapons, etc) will have a use!

Of course, this will likely lead to melee types carrying half a dozen weapons of varying damage types (piercing, slashing, good aligned, flaming, etc) and compositions just so they can adjust to different types of damage reduction on the fly.
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Postby Minofagal » Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:37 am

which would be nice since most melee types practices with all weapons, and now it's rather pointless unless you just like the procs of a certain weapon
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Postby Lilira » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:12 pm

Casting: Resurrect *

You complete your spell, body turns to dust blah blah blah...

Fen gets an elbony bladed longsword.
Fen gets an axe of some type.
Fen gets a 2h of some type.
Fen gets a piercer of some type.
Fen gets a hammer of some type.
Fen gets a silver longsword.

You say 'Jeez Honey, you in competition with Ashiwi now??"

*rofl*

This is something I can see happening!!!
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Re: update mundane stuffs

Postby Pril » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:44 pm

Cirath wrote:
Latreg wrote:first remove most of the "silver weapons" and give them a proc of sorts against undead, remember finding that new sword with silver so you could go kill undead in the table top D&D?


No, not really. Lycanthropes, maybe, but the only undead with a silver vulnerability were vampires. However, fear not! It is more than likely that with 2.0 and the introduction of damage reduction, silver weapons (and adamantine weapons, and aligned weapons, etc) will have a use!

Of course, this will likely lead to melee types carrying half a dozen weapons of varying damage types (piercing, slashing, good aligned, flaming, etc) and compositions just so they can adjust to different types of damage reduction on the fly.


Don't we do that now? I know as a pallie i have an assortment...

Avenger, Faith, Dragonlance, MD goodie sword (for when ya don't want area damage), ebony, for when ya need to wear shield....
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Re: update mundane stuffs

Postby Cirath » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:24 am

Pril wrote:Avenger, Faith, Dragonlance, MD goodie sword (for when ya don't want area damage), ebony, for when ya need to wear shield....


Note that four out of those five are slashing weapons. Keep them all, and add at least two good bludgeoning weapons (mace of disruption, and something for whacking golems around, maybe) and another piercer or two.
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Postby Oghma » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:50 am

Lets not forget Cold Iron, Adamantine, Magic, Silver and aligned weapons!
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:54 am

I resemble that remark!

You should have seen me when I still kept a couple of other cursed specialty weapons in inv.

I got really sick of not even having room in my inventory for my bag after ress and picking up dropped weapons. If I got my bag then picked up weapons, I had to be over halfway recovered before I could start dressing.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:49 am

While a tad off topic, I think that the above posts highlight the proliferation of !drop weapons in the game. Whatever happened to weapons that can sink, or just floating weapons that you can fumble? Many of the new ones are !drop as well as float, where we used to be forced to switch to accomodate different rooms. More dropable weapons!
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Postby Cirath » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:35 am

Oghma wrote:Lets not forget Cold Iron, Adamantine, Magic, Silver and aligned weapons!


And elemental, ghost touch, and status affecting weapons. Oh how the list goes on!
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Postby Latreg » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:02 pm

I guess what I would like to see is area updates, even if you give the mobs !take/transient gear it still would give the game a better feel/look especially for newbies. An un-armed, un-armored orc stands here, I have weapons and armor, I should be able to kick his ass even if he is many levels higher. Giants and things with claws or natural weapons I can see, but regular humanoid types need something. With no weapon they amount of damage done should be very very low, hence the reason to disarm, that doesn't mean they wouldn't carry a backup or more than one weapon like players do.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:58 pm

Why should a high level unarmored enemy fall to a low level one covered in platemail? The better fighter is going to be able to dodge/parry/whip ass all over a player of significantly lower level... not to mention that little thing called 'gameplay'.
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Postby Latreg » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:25 pm

Gormal wrote:Why should a high level unarmored enemy fall to a low level one covered in platemail? The better fighter is going to be able to dodge/parry/whip ass all over a player of significantly lower level... not to mention that little thing called 'gameplay'.


check out the s.c.a. web site if you are unfamiliar with what platemail actually is or do a search. I'd bet an 11 year old with real armor/sword and shield will kill you fast, and they probably wouldn't even be injured by you, with your bare hands and no armor. the point is a high level creature with intellegence would flee if found in such a situation. Since these mobs aren't a real thinking creature, at least have it make sense that they would stand there and fight. You could be the best swordsman in the world but give me a gun and distance and your skills won't mean shit. I hope this makes what I'm saying clearer.
Last edited by Latreg on Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:46 pm

Latreg wrote: I'd bet an 11 year old with real armor/sword and shield will kill you fast, and they probably wouldn't even be injured by you...


Over-exaggerate often?

I can think of plenty of enemies who I wouldn't want to face with a sword if they were barehanded, especially if they might be good enough to take it away from me as I'm clumsily swinging away thanks to my lack of skill and heavy armor. Or perhaps my problem is just that I don't know what platemail actually is though.

Contribution: I think its stupid that mobs have casual echos and talk to me even though most of them aren't wearing pants. Can we make all mobs have clothing actually worn rather than in their description, because those are just words and shouldn't affect gameplay.
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Postby daggaz » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:31 pm

Remember Mirlandia..Mithandria...oh wtf was it called? That zone where every mob had a full set of eq which ended up doing one or both of the following things:

a. Flooding the world with 'eq spam' as most of the gear was absolute shite and couldnt even be sold for much, tho it loaded every pop..
ie, you walk into a room with 257 pairs of flaming white and blue battle greaves.. course, trans flag would have fixed this. still funny to see orcish platemail poofing when it hits the floor..

b. Over balancing the eq situation as, ultimately, some of it was worth wearing and it was still in overabundance.

Not to mention the headache for the poor zone writer. ..


Oh, heh.. and no 11 year old could ever come at you in a full suit of platemail. The poor bastard wouldn't be able to even lift the sword, let alone walk! HA! I would just take his nifty armor and send him home to mommy. Or pee on his head. Or electrocute him with a torn extension cord. Depending on my char of course..
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Postby Latreg » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:20 pm

Man you guys who play an imaginary game have no imagination. Ever hear of a short sword? Ever see the 13th warrior where he has to grind down the viking sword so he can wield it? Ever seen a rapier? There are many many light swords. What in hell do halflings and gnome wear and wield?

Anyway many zones old and new have junk gear on the mobs, the writers took the time to put it in. Golem Forge has stuff on mobs that is !take, How about the Jot gates? they have weapons and armor. Put the gear on a rot timer like corpses and make it really short. Even Gormal would be smart enough to find a big stick and use it as a club rather than using bare hands.
Talona responds to your petition with 'Sweet, I fixed something!'

Talona LFG: [55 Evil Human Nec] 'Don't make me mud castrate you all.'

Some people are like slinkies, not really good for anything but you still cant help smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.
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Postby Grumdikanikus » Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:44 pm

There is also different types of platemail. It would be funny to see the average 11 year old wearing a full suit of Platemail. A suit of armor that weighs about half the kids body weight. Priceless!

Now a 11 year old with just a Breast plate some light leggings and some arm protection might be a bit more scary.

I also believe that a Seasoned Warrior could still kick a well armed Noob's but even if he was nekkid. He would still have to watch out for a lucky hit though. Otherwise, Your best be playing Rock,Paper and Scissors.

Grum
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Postby Minofagal » Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:16 pm

uh.. when i visted the MET in new york earlier this year i went camera crazy in the armor display. and yes there was a full suit of armor (plate i think) for a CHILD EMPORER in the far east..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/--3u3s--/page3/

it's at the bottom of the page..
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Postby Latreg » Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:35 pm

Minofagal wrote:uh.. when i visted the MET in new york earlier this year i went camera crazy in the armor display. and yes there was a full suit of armor (plate i think) for a CHILD EMPORER in the far east..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/--3u3s--/page3/

it's at the bottom of the page..


Awesome pictures, thanks for sharing, but who's that funny looking guy with the glasses? ;)
Check out the mounted knights with the horses done up in armor, it's a medevil tank, try to stop one of those charing at you.
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Talona LFG: [55 Evil Human Nec] 'Don't make me mud castrate you all.'

Some people are like slinkies, not really good for anything but you still cant help smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.
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Postby Tasan » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:44 am

Latreg wrote:Anyway many zones old and new have junk gear on the mobs, the writers took the time to put it in. Golem Forge has stuff on mobs that is !take, How about the Jot gates? they have weapons and armor. Put the gear on a rot timer like corpses and make it really short. Even Gormal would be smart enough to find a big stick and use it as a club rather than using bare hands.


Ever read a description for a mob? Many of those list weapons and armor the creature has on it that aren't necessarily items to be had. I fail to see how this is different than putting actual crap items on the corpse. Play Balder's Gate sometime and notice how much crap loads on corpses and how much is still just left on the ground. The fact of the matter is it takes time to set up mobs w/ equipment that isn't going to do anything but slow the game down anyhow.

Putting more objects in the game does slow it down whether or not you realize it. Asking people to put more into their files before actually getting zones into the game slows that down. I suggest you use your imagination if that's what you want, and dream of fantastical worthless equipment that you think they are using.
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Postby Minofagal » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:19 am

edit :
Last edited by Minofagal on Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Latreg » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:04 pm

Tasan wrote:Ever read a description for a mob? Many of those list weapons and armor the creature has on it that aren't necessarily items to be had. I fail to see how this is different than putting actual crap items on the corpse. Play Balder's Gate sometime and notice how much crap loads on corpses and how much is still just left on the ground. The fact of the matter is it takes time to set up mobs w/ equipment that isn't going to do anything but slow the game down anyhow.

Putting more objects in the game does slow it down whether or not you realize it. Asking people to put more into their files before actually getting zones into the game slows that down. I suggest you use your imagination if that's what you want, and dream of fantastical worthless equipment that you think they are using.


Then take all the junk out, there are already zone with transient mob equipment and !take as I have already stated. The point is, which apparently most everyone has missed is, the combat emotes are hit/punch, so change it to slash then, but change it so it doesn't look like they are fighting you bare handed, unless they are giant size or whatever. People bitch about dumbing down the mud, and yet when someone suggests a way to make it look smarter there's nothing but negativity. If more gear slows down the mud then that's an issue, if not update and spruce things up. Everything could use a fresh coat of paint.
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Postby Tasan » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:59 am

Latreg wrote:People bitch about dumbing down the mud, and yet when someone suggests a way to make it look smarter there's nothing but negativity. If more gear slows down the mud then that's an issue, if not update and spruce things up. Everything could use a fresh coat of paint.


It has nothing to do with negativity. Last time I checked there was this project in the works... cordially known as 2.0. Ever heard of it? Maybe you should read up on the ways it will not only give this place a new coat of paint, but will give you that coat of paint in 65 inches of 1080p. Band-aids at this point cause more problems than they fix.
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Postby Ambar » Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:47 am

I really doubt anything new will come out for current game. I'm sure that FIXES will be made as bugs come up, but nothing NEW content wise. I didnt see him as being negative, I guess just cause I think so much like he does... *grin*


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Postby Latreg » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:53 pm

Tasan wrote:It has nothing to do with negativity. Last time I checked there was this project in the works... cordially known as 2.0. Ever heard of it? Maybe you should read up on the ways it will not only give this place a new coat of paint, but will give you that coat of paint in 65 inches of 1080p. Band-aids at this point cause more problems than they fix.


Please post a link to where there is mention of them re-doing the mobs so they aren't always fighting barehanded, apparently I missed it. I see lots of changes for skills/spells etc for the players mostly, but haven't read anything about what I have started this thread about. i look forward to your link so I can be better informed, thanks.
Talona responds to your petition with 'Sweet, I fixed something!'

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Some people are like slinkies, not really good for anything but you still cant help smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.
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Postby Lilira » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:20 pm

Latreg wrote:
Tasan wrote:It has nothing to do with negativity. Last time I checked there was this project in the works... cordially known as 2.0. Ever heard of it? Maybe you should read up on the ways it will not only give this place a new coat of paint, but will give you that coat of paint in 65 inches of 1080p. Band-aids at this point cause more problems than they fix.


Please post a link to where there is mention of them re-doing the mobs so they aren't always fighting barehanded, apparently I missed it. I see lots of changes for skills/spells etc for the players mostly, but haven't read anything about what I have started this thread about. i look forward to your link so I can be better informed, thanks.


Since not all the information is available we don't KNOW what they'll be doing. Though you can be pretty sure that anything they give to us for feats, skills etc etc etc, mobs will get too! "Where the hell did that damn mob go.. and what's that duergar (disguised) doing here? Oh crap!" (backstabbed) RIP, Welcome to Toril.

I suggest (oh look.. here it comes!!) PATIENCE. Its a virtue I hear! Ideas are great, but lets keep in mind that the big project at the moment is a HUMUNGOUS overhaul of the overall game mechanics!

Though it would be nice to hear the next update!!! *begs prettily* Please toss us a bone to keep us hungry Shev!!!
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You group-say 'my chars will carry the component on them if I can.'
Inama group-says 'hopefully they'll have some sort of volume discounts on ress items for people like you'
You group-say 'oh? Ya think? *giggle*'
Inama group-says 'they could at least implement frequent dier miles'

Suzalize group-says 'oh, eya's over weight i bet'
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Postby Tasan » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:11 pm

Latreg wrote:Please post a link to where there is mention of them re-doing the mobs so they aren't always fighting barehanded, apparently I missed it. I see lots of changes for skills/spells etc for the players mostly, but haven't read anything about what I have started this thread about. i look forward to your link so I can be better informed, thanks.



http://www.torilmud.dyndns.org/phpBB2/posting.php?mode=quote&p=167369

Shevarash wrote:On a sidenote, the messages displayed upon succesful hits have all been changed and also now reflect both the relative amount of damage done to the victim's health as well as a general indicator of the strength of the hit itself.


In mobile creation you have no ability to select a type of attack in the current setup. All attacks are based upon the mob race(i.e. ghosts touch), however with the talk of changes it is easy to infer that this particular issue might be taken care of. No this doesn't give every mob a weapon that can be picked up and wielded once it is dead, but it does allow for a more realistic feel in combat. I realize it isn't expressly written, but most of the discussion about the shift to 3.0/.5 rules has been affirmed by Shev on numerous occasions, which leads many of us to believe that things like specific mob immunities or vulnerabilities will play a part in the new system.

Also, just because a human couldn't punch with enough force to do damage through platemail doesn't mean a demon couldn't or that an unarmed giant couldn't still crush your ass.
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Postby Lathander » Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:15 am

As HL'ers may remember, the "type" of attack was part of the mob. Here is what was on HL:

Enter choice :
0) hit
1) sting
2) whip
3) slash
4) bite
5) bludgeon
6) crush
7) pound
8) claw
9) maul
10) thrash
11) pierce
12) blast
13) punch
14) stab
Enter attack type :

I'm not a coder, but it would, as others have said, make sense to have this if "type"'s of damage are coming. The "type" of attack would probably have to be in some way attached to the mob, whether in the mob race desc or in the mob specific desc. For those that know D&D, different mobs have different types of attacks based on the "type".

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Postby Cirath » Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:03 am

Of course, given the number of humanoid (or other types that do bludgeoning damage by default) mobs in the game, if they don't adjust mob damage type or arm them appropriately then I expect hammerblock (damage reduction vs bludgeoning damage only) armor, shields, and other items will become quite popular.
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Postby Latreg » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:07 pm

Tasan wrote:In mobile creation you have no ability to select a type of attack in the current setup. All attacks are based upon the mob race(i.e. ghosts touch), however with the talk of changes it is easy to infer that this particular issue might be taken care of. No this doesn't give every mob a weapon that can be picked up and wielded once it is dead, but it does allow for a more realistic feel in combat. I realize it isn't expressly written, but most of the discussion about the shift to 3.0/.5 rules has been affirmed by Shev on numerous occasions, which leads many of us to believe that things like specific mob immunities or vulnerabilities will play a part in the new system.

Also, just because a human couldn't punch with enough force to do damage through platemail doesn't mean a demon couldn't or that an unarmed giant couldn't still crush your ass.


Thanks, the mob creation thing I had no clue about, and yeah giants etc could do big damage with bare hards, I was just thinking on the smaller mobs, Imagine a halfling fighting bare handed ;) Thanks it makes more sense to me now.

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