awareness
awareness
is there any reason warriors dont have awareness? i mean it seems that that would be right up a warriors alley
i dont know what your problem is, but i bet its hard to pronounce
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Well, the closest thing in 3.5 to torils 'awareness' flag is 'uncanny dodge' for berserkers, the one where at 5th level you can no longer be flanked and thus are immune to _most_ sneak attacks.
In Toril, backstabbing is often done by a sneaking/hiding rogue who generally catches his target by surprise, thus denying him the dex bonus and allowing sneak attack damage. So on our mud, a direct translation of uncanny dodge --> awareness would end up being beaten by normal rogue skills anyhow.
Guess it would have to be made into uber uncanny dodge to have any use here, but still, it would be limited to berserkers. There really isn't any type of skill of the sorts in the core books that give fighters that kind of ability. You can always take the alertness feat tho, but it only gives you +2 to spot and listen checks.
Mechanics aside, still wondering why it seems natural for a fighter to have such a skill in the first place. Its a rather broad category which generally just encompasses physical combat prowess. There are more than enough low int and especially low wisdom fighters out there to explain why something like awareness of your surroundings is not a fundamental class skill.
EDIT: When I say berserker, I mean barbarian in 3.5 which is basically what a berserker was here in the old days. Old habits die hard. Bring back berserkers!!!
In Toril, backstabbing is often done by a sneaking/hiding rogue who generally catches his target by surprise, thus denying him the dex bonus and allowing sneak attack damage. So on our mud, a direct translation of uncanny dodge --> awareness would end up being beaten by normal rogue skills anyhow.
Guess it would have to be made into uber uncanny dodge to have any use here, but still, it would be limited to berserkers. There really isn't any type of skill of the sorts in the core books that give fighters that kind of ability. You can always take the alertness feat tho, but it only gives you +2 to spot and listen checks.
Mechanics aside, still wondering why it seems natural for a fighter to have such a skill in the first place. Its a rather broad category which generally just encompasses physical combat prowess. There are more than enough low int and especially low wisdom fighters out there to explain why something like awareness of your surroundings is not a fundamental class skill.
EDIT: When I say berserker, I mean barbarian in 3.5 which is basically what a berserker was here in the old days. Old habits die hard. Bring back berserkers!!!
i belive that dwarven defenders and epic in certain classes also get the ability to be unflankable
dwarven defenders get it while in a defensicve stance and once they reach 5th level also other bonuses get added to defensive stance after 5th.
dwarven defenders get it while in a defensicve stance and once they reach 5th level also other bonuses get added to defensive stance after 5th.
i dont know what your problem is, but i bet its hard to pronounce
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amolol wrote:i belive that dwarven defenders and epic in certain classes also get the ability to be unflankable
dwarven defenders get it while in a defensicve stance and once they reach 5th level also other bonuses get added to defensive stance after 5th.
You can get that with feats, but you're talking about a possible customization rather than a universally awarded immunity (all non-variant barbs, and quite a few variant barbs, get uncanny dodge, as do rogues.) Dwarven defender is a well-known PrC, but it's still a PrC. I haven't seen any indication that we can expect anything other than core classes.
It might be a good idea to let fighters take Eyes In The Back Of Your Head (the feat that disallows flanking), though by the rules as written that still allows you to be sneak attacked at range or early in combat - and that's when you get backstabbed now anyway, at the start of combat. I suppose being un-circleable is still worth something though.
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hurm.... now that you brought it up, will rangers be able to sneak afttack with a bow
back to the original discussion. honestly i feel that as the first into combat tanks should get a little extra edge on the backstab/sneak attack field.
i mean i know that there are items that let you do it but warriors should get that as a natural ability. warriors paladins and the like devote their entire existence to learning how to fight. and nyone who has ever fought with or in a group of people at least remotley often can tell you that you learn to know where everyone is even if you cant see htem. someone who fights in a group or fights groups for a living will specialize in it even more... no magic here to argue about realities with this is a fact o life.
yes i have fought groupsd and in groups did it in the SCA and for several midevel fairs... its realy fun you should try it.
back to the original discussion. honestly i feel that as the first into combat tanks should get a little extra edge on the backstab/sneak attack field.
i mean i know that there are items that let you do it but warriors should get that as a natural ability. warriors paladins and the like devote their entire existence to learning how to fight. and nyone who has ever fought with or in a group of people at least remotley often can tell you that you learn to know where everyone is even if you cant see htem. someone who fights in a group or fights groups for a living will specialize in it even more... no magic here to argue about realities with this is a fact o life.
yes i have fought groupsd and in groups did it in the SCA and for several midevel fairs... its realy fun you should try it.
i dont know what your problem is, but i bet its hard to pronounce
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Amolol, historically speaking, there are plenty of seasoned battle troops that were taken out by a well-placed ambush who might refute what you're saying.
To know where your enemy is on the battleground is one thing, but for any of those dead warriors to know there was a concealed enemy just waiting for them would have taken either great advance scouting or a mistake on the enemy's part.
The SCA is fun, but they don't exactly do a ton of covert operations.
To know where your enemy is on the battleground is one thing, but for any of those dead warriors to know there was a concealed enemy just waiting for them would have taken either great advance scouting or a mistake on the enemy's part.
The SCA is fun, but they don't exactly do a ton of covert operations.
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Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'
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a point well taken, i know that the way BS works here is that its used first strike but only because a basher/tripper will keep them down once your attacked you are much more aware of whas going on. my refrence to the SCA was that while fully engaged for some reason you just know where people are if there is an enemy flanking you/behind you.... you just happen to pay attention to that. im not dusputing that the first strike is a very powerfull attack and should be left alone im mostly speaking about later in the battle when your fully engaged.
i dont know what your problem is, but i bet its hard to pronounce
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I could see what you mean with knowing where your enemies are in a multiple target encounter, amolol, but its like M says...
You are dealing with somebody using concealment. And not just anybody, somebody who has specifically trained their entire career to be really, really good at using concealment to surprise their enemies.
If all warriors just had this uncanny knack of finding said enemies, it would pretty much defeat the entire skill, making rogues halfway pointless.
Thats stretching things just a tad, don't you think? Combat training is one thing (and I can definitely see a scaled trainable skill or feat to ward against circling), but its gonna be a special thing to be able to pick out the ultra sneaky drow rogue hiding in the shadows behind the stalactite over there..
You are dealing with somebody using concealment. And not just anybody, somebody who has specifically trained their entire career to be really, really good at using concealment to surprise their enemies.
If all warriors just had this uncanny knack of finding said enemies, it would pretty much defeat the entire skill, making rogues halfway pointless.
Thats stretching things just a tad, don't you think? Combat training is one thing (and I can definitely see a scaled trainable skill or feat to ward against circling), but its gonna be a special thing to be able to pick out the ultra sneaky drow rogue hiding in the shadows behind the stalactite over there..
im not asking to be able to see the ultra sneaky rog im asking about the posibility of a warrior having a sixth sense type thing... i mean realy to make it long term as the front man in any combat encounter dont you kinda hafto be realy frikin good at what you do? im not talking about just the strait fighting anyone who has ever made a career out of fighting would be able to sense that they might be being attacked from a different angle and move to counter it.
mostly im wanting in combat awareness you dont even hafto call it combat awareness call it combat prowess or something. in combat warriors should be able to have an advantage of dodging sneakly type attacks. as gormal stated above not being able to be flanked is very handy for melee combat but it would not cancel ranged sneak attacks.
mostly im wanting in combat awareness you dont even hafto call it combat awareness call it combat prowess or something. in combat warriors should be able to have an advantage of dodging sneakly type attacks. as gormal stated above not being able to be flanked is very handy for melee combat but it would not cancel ranged sneak attacks.
i dont know what your problem is, but i bet its hard to pronounce
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Actually, I can definitely see the logic behind having such a skill.
As long as you can find a little green guy in a swamp to teach it to you.
As long as you can find a little green guy in a swamp to teach it to you.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'
Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'
Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'
Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'
Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Most of the multiple opponent combat techniques focus on making sure you don't get flanked by using your surroundings and knowing where your opponents are most likely to attack from. I don't see why you couldn't promote this as an "awareness" type skill. If you're out in the open fields and there's a large bramble stand, obviously you'll be much more likely to pay attention in that direction. Awareness shouldn't be a way to just avoid an attack either, it involves the ability to roll with attacks just as much.
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good idea. lets give every one awareness and just cap it....
i definatly think that ranger/rogues should be the ones most likely to catch a sneak attack after all you pay attention to your job. but i thing the ones who fight and get hit for a living should have it aswell.... cap it at 50 if you want just give a chance.
i definatly think that ranger/rogues should be the ones most likely to catch a sneak attack after all you pay attention to your job. but i thing the ones who fight and get hit for a living should have it aswell.... cap it at 50 if you want just give a chance.
i dont know what your problem is, but i bet its hard to pronounce
myspace.com/tgchef
myspace.com/tgchef
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