Anti-paladin useful ideas

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Thilindel
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Anti-paladin useful ideas

Postby Thilindel » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:12 pm

1st circle: cause light, detect good, bless, detect magic

2nd circle: armor, command undead, detect evil

3rd circle: create food, create water, pain touch

4th circle: curse, curse item, protection from good

5th circle: dispel good, poison, spectral hand, heal mount

6th circle: blindness, fear

7th circle: dispel magic, minor paralysis

8th circle: wither, tazriks frenzied hound

9th circle: harm, dark wrath

10th circle: unholy word, unholy aura
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Wouldn't it be more useful to have cure serious, critic, and heal rather than the pain touch, spectral hand, and harm spells?

Pain touch/Spectral hand damage as a necro is laughable, let alone from anti-paladin. Even harm does no real damage. Melee is set up to do more than the cast time offsets. Homeland was just fine with having AP's having healing spells. I was finding that most dieties listed want their worshipers preserved rather than causing lesser damage
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Postby Yasden » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:01 pm

Real AP's quest Deathknell before they even roll up. Who needs healing spells?
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Postby Gormal » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:40 pm

A-P is just terribly done. You have damage spells that if you ever use them in combat, you're going to do less net damage. Dark wrath is actually bad if you're filling a tanking roll, and having poisons and spells but not having the skills to back them up makes it kind of worthless. Antis need a lot more to make them not completely balls.

I levelled one to 50 and only play it when i have to because its an evilrace group.
Delmair Aamoren
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Re: Anti-paladin useful ideas

Postby Delmair Aamoren » Wed May 07, 2008 6:35 am

As one of the longest AP'ers out there, i have to say I agree they need some help. I disagree on the idea of adding the healing spells to them, as its not really in their nature. I also agree with gormal to a degree on the spellcasting actually resulting in less net damage. The only exception is tazriks frenzied hound. If used properly and quick chant hits, it is incredibly effective and can reduce the duration of 1 on 1 combat by 30% or more. If quick chant doesnt hit, then yeah, you just wasted a few rounds of combat doing 0 melee dmg. Personally i have always liked the idea of a vampiric touch type ability that is _VERY_ minimal and increases slightly across the levels. Starting at level 20 or so it should be useable with a melee weapon. It is pitiful that a weapon defines a class, but in that right the antis aren't alone. At least the paladins have lay hands and guard, the antis have nothing that a warrior can't do better (in most cases).
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Re: Anti-paladin useful ideas

Postby Gormal » Wed May 07, 2008 7:59 am

Fights against a single mob are incredibly rare, and I doubt that tazricks can do enough damage to overcome damage done by charge/hitall on a top-geared anti if cast while in combat. If it does edge it out, then its outweighed by the inability to use passive and called abilities while casting.
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Re: Anti-paladin useful ideas

Postby Delmair Aamoren » Wed May 07, 2008 7:23 pm

so what you're saying is that unholy word is about the only even remotely useful spell in the AP arsenal in a group? sounds about right. I'm actually quite better off using apply poison and hitall in a group/multi-target environment.

Del
Thilindel
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Re: Anti-paladin useful ideas

Postby Thilindel » Wed May 07, 2008 7:44 pm

I'd like to see them raise at least skeletons and zombies..maybe even ghouls
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Re: Anti-paladin useful ideas

Postby Kifle » Wed May 07, 2008 8:37 pm

A possible fix would be to regulate damage and make the spells instant cast. As it is now, A-P is a different warrior class with flash and no extra substance. If the spells were instant cast, you will still get the extra benefit of the spells without sacrificing melee efficiency. If you regulated the damage of the spells (which were intended to be an offensive boost [as far as damage spells]) you will still gain a realized effective boost without sacrificing melee efficiency as well. The only thing that would need to be done is readjust the spell damage to compensate for the lack of spell casting.
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Re: Anti-paladin useful ideas

Postby Gormal » Wed May 07, 2008 8:38 pm

Pretty much Del, and with the heinous memtimes, if the group is pushing hard and doing well then you might not get many chances to repray those precious 2 unholy words. Unholy aura is also the only unique, good tank buff that anti's get and its short duration and long mem time makes it nigh useless.

Edit: As for the spells, I really think that self-buffs are the right direction to take it, maybe a berserking unholy fury spell would be awesome. 2h weapons still need more of a damage boost, and mounted combat needs a boost (I can elaborate on this I guess if people don't know what I mean) to make either flavor of paladin more balanced.
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Re: Anti-paladin useful ideas

Postby Delmair Aamoren » Fri May 09, 2008 5:02 pm

Gormal wrote:Edit: As for the spells, I really think that self-buffs are the right direction to take it, maybe a berserking unholy fury spell would be awesome. 2h weapons still need more of a damage boost, and mounted combat needs a boost (I can elaborate on this I guess if people don't know what I mean) to make either flavor of paladin more balanced.


You know, i couldn't agree more. Wherein i don't think that taking them the route of animating dead is a wholly terrible one, i just don't see it being useful in a group, just trivial and fun. The instant-cast idea isn't a terrible one, but it seems like is sacrificing a lot of realism in the spellcasting times/style here for the purpose of buffing a single group of classes.

I think that giving mounted combat a small boost, giving 2h weapons a boost so that they actually have a significant dice bonus over their 1h counterparts, and giving paladins and antipaladins some extra buffs would be great. I seem to remember a skill/ability out of diablo 2 that would be fun called "zeal". It was completely overpowered in diablo 2, but toned down i think it could have some logical purpose here.

And as a sitenote, if you compare the spell lists, paladins get heal wherein antis get harm. That is not even a fair trade unless harm actually worked the way it does in DnD.

Del
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Re: Anti-paladin useful ideas

Postby Thilindel » Tue May 13, 2008 3:38 pm

Harm as it is now is a complete joke. Full harm makes me think of Elmo.

Elmo completes his spell 'full tickle' Haha Haha! Ah hahahaha! An unfortunate mob dies from unstoppable laughter as you attempted to harm it! R.I.P.
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