Scorp Earring

A forum for discussion of the object changes...one thread per item please. Read the first post!
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:45 pm

Kaede wrote:If scorps is so easy to get, I challenge you to start the quest from scratch right now and SOLO it as you say is possible (I'd like to watch you solo a level 55 troll backstabber). If you can SOLO a scorp earring with no help within two months, I'll give you two of mine and worship your l33tn3ss forever.


hontou ni?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Nekler BlazingWolf
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Postby Nekler BlazingWolf » Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:45 pm

Why would I want to though?
Just to make a point to you? The items I had gotten were for my 2nd earring.
If I were to do it again, then wouldn't it be like I was farming it and keeping other people from doing it.. the very thing people are complaining about?
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Postby thanuk » Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:50 pm

Nekler BlazingWolf wrote:If I were to do it again, then wouldn't it be like I was farming it and keeping other people from doing it.. the very thing people are complaining about?


Not if you gave the earrings to meh! nudge nudge.
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Postby Kaede » Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:18 pm

Anyone can get incredibly lucky with loads, but for the most part it won't happen like that. That's all I was saying, Nekler. And when you're a barbarian shaman doing all those GN quests, its a lot easier to farm quest items. A second scorp is easier to get than the initial after you've been around collecting for a while.

Why do it? Yes, to prove or disprove Weylarii's point. He said it was soloable and easy to get, I'm was interested in seeing if that was true for him. So if you're willing to demonstrate to me that scorps is soloable and easy to get, I will reward you with two more scorps for your dedication :P

Wanna do it Dartan-san? This was a challenge originally for Wey. Quests and eq are harder to get when they aren't handed to you. But if you're interested, since you're on all day and a barbarian shaman as well this should be a breeze for you.

1. Start from scratch, no using the farmed items you have in storage
2. No trading or obtaining quest items from others
3. Solo each and every part and send me logs to demonstrate it (you can use alts as long as you're soloing it all)
4. Have a nonpartial witness present for each item that you quest and let me know

Send me a tell if you are interested. We'll wait for a more stable time, MUD's crashing like 10 times a day right now, making every quester and rare hunter happy :p.

Like I said earlier, quests are easy and zones are easy... But if you put in equal effort to getting a SPOB earring, you could probably get it in the same or shorter time than completing the scorp earring quest. And there's a lot less effort in zoning then there is in checking rares every single boot.
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Postby thanuk » Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:34 pm

Kaede wrote: And there's a lot less effort in zoning then there is in checking rares every single boot.


Yeah, cuz its real hard to uhm, walk around.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Kaede
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Postby Kaede » Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:45 pm

Yeah, cuz its real hard to uhm, walk around.


Just as hard as it is to walk around your fat mother.
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:59 pm

Kaede wrote:
Yeah, cuz its real hard to uhm, walk around.


Just as hard as it is to walk around your fat mother.


At least you can use the word hard in the same sentence as my mother. Your mom's so ugly that Viagra lists her as an antidote.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Waelos
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Postby Waelos » Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:56 pm

Kaede: I have nothing to prove to you. I've soloed a number of earrings already (not to mention other mobs), as has Dartan and Lilithelle and Nekler and any number of other people. Just because you can't possibly fathom how it is done, doesn't make it necessary for others to prove it to you. Really man, its so hard to respect people without a clue.

Belleshel:
Your question is a good one. The way I see it, the Scorp earring at +3 +1 fills a niche that isn't touched by another earring at the moment. I think that those stats, coupled with the new Slow Poison poison mod, makes it perfect for the difficulty in obtaining them. Another idea would be to possibly make them 1-2 use poison of whatever type per day in addition to being 3/1 slow poison.

Kifle:
Nothing better than Marlboro's? feh! They gotta be laced with somethint! ;) Anyway! No one really had a problem with the stats of the scorp earring before the eq changes. . .and the 2/2 earring was in the game for a looong time before the eq changes came in. Why the sudden disparity? Honestly, are there really 15 people camped inside the Thunderbeast area every boot? There would have to be for the # of people trying to get an earring per boot to equal the same % of people with the chance of getting a 2/2 earring. The 2/2 earring has been in for a while .. . have you seen a decrease in the campers/etc for the earring? I suspect not. . because before the changes the scorp earring was still damn good at 3/1 and it was easier for people to try and check rares and such on their own for a few minutes a day rather than hoping to get into a SPoB group and spending 3-5 hours for the slight chance of winning.

What makes a huge difference is that for the scorp, you only need to sacrifice 3-5 minutes at the start of a boot to find the rares you need with little to no risk of death. If they load, then you're set. If you're lucky, you're only racing 2 or 3 people (maybe nobody if its the right time) If you're unlucky I guess there could be 15 people camped in there. . . ) If not, wait for another boot. With a zone like SpOB or Seelie. .. you've got to get the group, go spend 3-5 hours of your time, die alot (probably) and then be lucky enough to win the best item. . and then with SpOB you have another 1/4 chance to win the earring.

I hope that helps a bit more in understanding where I'm coming from.

Thanks!

Lost.
Malia
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Postby Malia » Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:13 pm

I agree, for the dificulty of the quest 3/1 slow poison is fine, it was one of those things that didnt really need to get touched. I hope when the quest file points get fixed that this will get adjusted acordingly. Until then, Im not gonna sweat it just make some suggestions.

And the quest is entirely soloable, just need the right class to solo it. If you cant then you got !imagination and dont need to be flaming others cuz they can. I think early on the % load was more often too made it eaier, now you dont see mobs nearly as often. So i think 3/1 justifies the effort it takes to do the quest.
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Postby Kaede » Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:47 pm

I wasn't flaming anyone (what I said about Thanuk's mom was truth, not flame!) and my posts had no intent of flaming of any kind. If disagreeing or challenging views of others without sucking up seems like flaming to you, then I apologize and will compensate by using more smiley faces for your benefit. Behold - :D

If you guys really know that everything in Evermoors (mainly the chieftain) is soloable, then I guess I really do have !imagination. Maybe someone will be kind enough to give me a demonstration sometime for my own reference and understanding.

Slow day at work, I'm posting too much so I won't anymore on this thread. To return to the point, 3/1 scorp earring all the way.
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Postby Kifle » Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:16 pm

I see what you are saying wey, and it makes a lot of sense. Maybe I'm a bit baised because I think eq from zones should be < eq from quests. Maybe I'm a bit biased because it took me 6 months to even find the TB while checking at every boot/crash. I just hate the changes, and I hate that there is a 2/2 earring in the game. The zone has !fear factor in it. Ooo, you might lose exp. Just do a clouds run and make it back a bit. I hardly ever zone anymore and I'm still at 123% exp after 50. If I had played as much as I did earlier in the year, then I'd be well above 700%. Zones aren't hard, they haven't been for some time. You have no chance of losing your eq from a spank in spob. There have been a few 1-2 death spob runs that I know about. And I only know about 5 of them. The fact remains that there could be 30 people looking for the TB/spy/hunter/questmob at the same time as you while in a zone you have a max of 15 and even still there are some that don't bid best. You can also only do them both once per boot. Yes, giving it a 1/4 chance when you win the bid does make it a bit rarer, but as we have noticed, rarity doesn't give many points. Bah, I don't care anymore. The main problem behind it, I think, is that I'm completely sick of getting on and asking what people are doing and getting the answer, "Spob in an hour...Seelie in an hour" I like the days of getting on and asking the same question and getting, "Dunno man, maybe TF, maybe clouds, maybe scorps, maybe CC...not much is done, we'll take a vote." There is no voting anymore, there is no maybes, and there definately is no fun. "Balance" is turning this mud into a 2-4 zone mud and is doing absolutly nothing for the Pbase. Spread the wealth, make the scorpion earring 1/1 for all I care, just give me a choice on where to spend my time on the mud if I want to go get eq.
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:53 pm

naw i won't do it. i'm on alot but I'm usually idle until someone asks me something or i'm asked to zone.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Kifle » Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:38 am

This is something that has bugged me for a while...was happend on july 14th?
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Postby Nokie » Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:34 am

Kifle wrote:This is something that has bugged me for a while...was happend on july 14th?


Dalar discovered jpop
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Postby Ambar » Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:44 am

Rabid I think ya need to put a disclaimer on your tagline :P
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Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:16 am

yea yea ok i'll add one
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Sarell » Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:46 am

I personally find evermorrs the hardest bit to solo, but I still think the time invested is one of the most important factors in any gameplay. There are few places that require a group of 15 exceptional players on a good day, spob certainly isn't one of them.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:52 pm

i got a lich. would be cake
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Kifle
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Postby Kifle » Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:25 am

I was just thinking, the 2/2 earring is also PFG right? Isn't a prot better than slow poison? Isn't 2/2 considerably higher at high end than 3/1. I mean, damage is supposed to use twice as many points right, that is why hitroll is more common. Since prots were supposedly being taken away it makes prots use up more points, i would assume. So when you think about it, putting the scorp earring back to 3/1 and keeping the slow poison would make it worth it again and still not the best. What are the gods ideas?
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Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:35 pm

let's also consider that the ttf earring, which is hella easy to get, is 3 dam -3 sv para. it's a zone on prime and takes maybe an hour to get with a full group. scorpion earring takes WEEKS. I'd say 1/3 is very balanced for the difficulty and rarity of the scorpion earring
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Malia » Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:56 pm

Like to see this earring get some loving after quest points are looked at. will wait until then to see i guess =)
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Postby Stamm » Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:51 pm

Conversely....

I think that any quest which causes people to rush to a certain area at a reboot to see if something has popped should be considered for a downgrade.

I disagree with Kifle, quests which you can do on your own should be valued at less than zones which require a group, but that should be valued at less than epic quests which require a group.

There are quests out there that nobody will find on their own, ever, simply because there are people running there at reboot to check for a mob, and when they find it they'll either beat it up or quest it away.

People are farming quest items, there are items of unbelievable value in the mud, and this value IS because they are hard to obtain, but for all the wrong reasons.

So when an object is being farmed like this there's 3 solutions, in my mind. Downgrade the reward, or increase the difficulty (i.e. beef up mobs, put more mobs in, make it !tele, etc etc) or just increase the availability of the item, make the mob less rare, make it a full load, make the item repop unlimited times.

EDIT : What does throw it off slightly is people who do quests not really for the equipment reward, but simply for the reward of doing the quest. I don't know Dalar well enough, but I suspect he will do quests just for the pleasure of doing them. I do know that Molor, Lilithelle and Klandan for example simply enjoy doing quests and that they will do quests they haven't done before just because of the challenge. (That's a good thing btw!)
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Postby Waelos » Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:03 pm

Yes. . . .no matter how rare this quest is. . . there is 0 risk involved. All the fights are on prime, and quite simple. It was stated somewhere that zones that are on prime that are easy to CR from should get a serious point reduction .. . well that has to go for quests as well. It isn't like you even give up anything that is worth a damn either. a bunch of humanskin junk. . . hell, the best thing used to be troll hands at 2dam 4con and they're now not even that good.

Scorp earring quest:

Pros: Rarity of mobs

Cons:
0 risk of death
0 gear sacrifice
Total time invested isn't all that much. It takes 5 minutes to check 30 rooms for the rares. A rogue can just sit in a key room and track=P

can we all please be honest. . . this quest is NOT hard. . . NOT dangerous. . . just a bit tedious.

3/1 slow poison is adequate for tedious.

Oh yea, and since the cute extra upgrade to SPoB, 2/2 pfg (a worthless Prot, imho) is more than warranted =P

Lost.
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:58 pm

come on, like reaching ttf blood earring is hard? give me a group of 15 30 minutes and i bet we can get there. while there is no risk in scorpion earrings there is the time factor, which seems to have been skipped in point evaluation
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Stamm » Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:02 pm

Something else to consider.

A group of 15 people taking 30 minutes...

7.5 hours.

That doesn't include the time it takes to get the group together, walk past to TTF.

However, that group is going to get more than an earring for their troubles, they'll probably do the whole zone.
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Postby Salen » Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:34 pm

Dalar wrote:there is the time factor, which seems to have been skipped in point evaluation


Yet another question that would be answered if everyone got to see the math.
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Postby Waelos » Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:52 pm

In all seriousness D. . .How long does it really take to get a scorp earring....sure you're waiting 6 months.. .but you're only taking 5 min each boot over that 6 month period.

so, say 180 crashes (thats 1 a day for 6 months) X 5 min per check. . . looks like it takes 15 hours at pure maximum of 0 risk rare checking to get a scorp earring. So that is like going to SpoB two or three times and being assured not dying once AND winning in your 2nd or 3rd trip.

And lets see. . . 21 trips to SpoB (maybe more but that figure fits well) winning even every third trip. . .

At that rate I would have won *7* heart items. 2 earrings, 2 amulets, axe, armor and something else to trade of I wanted.

Even if my math and examples are off a bit you can see that the difficulty and risk involved is silly in comparison.

3/1 slow poison is a gift I would be happy with.

Lost.
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Postby Sarell » Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:58 pm

"so, say 180 crashes (thats 1 a day for 6 months) X 5 min per check. . . looks like it takes 15 hours at pure maximum of 0 risk rare checking to get a scorp earring. So that is like going to SpoB two or three times and being assured not dying once AND winning in your 2nd or 3rd trip. "


no it isn't...

Doing spob in 6 hours with a group is a pretty far cry from being logged on for 180 boots and spending the start of each boot (a vital time for grouping up and checking all the rares) checking for scorp earring stuff imho ...

Also keep in mind that you get 7 items each trip to spob not just the one. And even if you don't get the earring heart item you were hoping for, someone in group IS going to get a nice heart item.

TTF earring I think is significantly easier.

PFG pwns.

Waters earring pwns scorp earring. They are certianly FAR easier.

PS: I still reckon it is hella risky soloing evermoors. I know I died in there trying.
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Postby Kifle » Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:24 pm

If pfg is so crappy, why was it taken off of my wrap? I still think it's worth at the very least 3/1 slow poison...at the least.
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Postby belleshel » Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:44 pm

Sarell wrote:"so, say 180 crashes (thats 1 a day for 6 months) X 5 min per check. . . looks like it takes 15 hours at pure maximum of 0 risk rare checking to get a scorp earring. So that is like going to SpoB two or three times and being assured not dying once AND winning in your 2nd or 3rd trip. "


no it isn't...

Doing spob in 6 hours with a group is a pretty far cry from being logged on for 180 boots and spending the start of each boot (a vital time for grouping up and checking all the rares) checking for scorp earring stuff imho ...

Also keep in mind that you get 7 items each trip to spob not just the one. And even if you don't get the earring heart item you were hoping for, someone in group IS going to get a nice heart item.

TTF earring I think is significantly easier.

PFG pwns.

Waters earring pwns scorp earring. They are certianly FAR easier.



Sorry Waelos, Sarell is actually right on this point.
Scorps are a pain in the ass to get, should keep SPOB earring the same, but move it to another zone, like BC. Scorps most certainly should be a better hitter earring then anything from a normal zone.

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