Garish, er, gold charm bracelet

[Gurns]

The quested gold charm bracelet has +hps and +max_cha. Both were downgraded. I understand the hps -- although the charm bracelet was quite hard for me to get (nobody was doing the zone anymore), I heard that the weevils used to do the zone All The Time.

But downgrading from +5 max_cha to +2 max_cha leads to an unfortunate -- and I hope unintended -- result. As far as I know (and as far as Aldira knows, I asked), the only other max_cha equip is three instruments. But a bard uses different instruments for songs. And, my belief is that there's a Cha notch for half-elves at 106 (or was it 107? -- anyway, I could hit it with 2 bracelets). So this downgrade makes it impossible for me to hit the top Cha notch for half of my songs.

If there is other max_cha equip in the game, or if the best instrument of each type now has a couple max_cha, then I can understand what's going on. If not, I request that either another max_cha bardable piece of equip be added soon, or that charm bracelets get pushed up a point or two, to get half-elves past that top notch.

Note also: A test shows that even with 2 bracelets and the only max_cha instrument I have, I don't get better shop prices than with 100 Cha. So even pushing bracelets up a point or two may not be sufficient to hit that notch. I understand that shop prices may not be song power, but any test of song power in action is fraught with randomness, so *shrug*

[Todrael]

I loved my charm bracelets way back when. Except for the terrible ansi, at any rate. Demi-plane is an awesome zone, and I'm surprised somewhat difficult quests like this item were downgraded so heavily. Especially about stats that don't seem to do anything, like charisma. Are stat mods all the same? +9 con same cost as +9 cha? Because they certainly shouldn't be.

[Gurns]

Especially about stats that don't seem to do anything, like charisma. Are stat mods all the same? +9 con same cost as +9 cha? Because they certainly shouldn't be.

Max_stat stuff of any kind is prolly real "expensive". And cha may not do much for anyone else, but it's very important for bards.

Essentially, these were and are "bard only" bracelets, because no one else needs max_cha , and there are plenty of bracelets out there with more hps.

My feeling is that bards don't need the hps from these, since we have other slots for hps, but we absolutely want the +max_cha (unless/until some other items have max_cha -- and I could certainly believe there's stuff out there that I don't know about). So rather than partially nerfing both the hps and the max_cha, I would have prefered more severe nerfing of the hps and no change in the max_cha, if that's what it took to balance the item/zone.

Of course, this may indicate a larger issue with how items get counted/weighed. If an item is only useful for one non-essential class... *shrug* This ain't the spot for that discussion.

[Lilithelle]

Actually alot of demi stuff got upgraded which is good to see, it is a neat zone and when intelligence is applied it can be done without a large group. Yup, it would be nice to see people going to demi again... And saying dang, Inama must have already done it. *whistle* Actually as much as I like to do demi I've been preparing a guide book to it to help others learn it so they can join in the fun too.

[Malia]

Why upgrade a zone that can by all acounts be solo'd? Acording to your theory if its patheticly easy (and a zone being able to be solod would be in that catagory) why upgrade it at all it should be downgraded to nothing like the rest of stuff thats patheticly easy to get.

[Malia]

In all seriousnous, i like demi and i would love to see it done more, did it deserve an upgrade, nah its not that hard and didnt deserver it.. but it is a fun zone.

[Tanji Smanji]

Has anyone else noticed that anything Lilithelle or her elementalist can solo should, by her definition, be downed because its so easy? Apparently all the calc should do is ask if Lili can solo it, if so down it.

God I hope elementalists get downed, and yes. I play one.

[Lilithelle]

I guess it depends on perspective. Its also about time, yes I can solo demi, gythka quest etc, but its alot of work and time and certainly not without risk when it comes to fights like artimus and the beholder. The charm bracelet I can solo and the whole quest for example, the charm bracelet only loads 1/2 the time or so, and to solo it from start to finish of quest might take 3 hours.

Also the fact that its elementalist soloable isn't necessarily reflective of the power of the class. I could also do it with a group of 2 made up of various combinations of other classes. It comes down to an elementalist having healing, an enchanter and cleric would do demi easier than an elementalist could.

If the gods are concerned I hope that they'd come to me with suggestions, if they don't want it solo'd I could make suggestions to reduce the cheese aspect of doing the zone. Like to prevent gythka from being soloable it would probably be best to give the beholder healing, right now i can solo it only because it can't heal so i just need to wittle it down. When they changed ribcage so i couldn't solo it they made it way harder for everyone else too :(
Lil

[Tanji Smanji]

Yes Lili. I know whats involved since I've done most of them solo also. Yet you don't see me or other mentalists sitting here harping about how these items should be downed because we happened to play the 'right' class. When I made my mentalist I was constantly told I should make a chanter or invoker.

And the gods have asked for suggestions, just not from you apparently.

[Lilithelle]

Yeah, they must not trust me :( And there are only a couple items i've said are too easy and its not cause i played the right class its cause they're too easy. Gythka has a darn nice proc, and i could do it in a group of 2 or 3 even if i didn't play an elementalist. In fact I've solo'd beholder as a druid too. Talk to Oteb, he's done beholder a couple times at least with nothing more than someone there to heal. The other item on this forum I said was too easy i solo'd as my druid not my elementalist and stated rogues would solo it. Molor for instance. Worse case senario anything an elementalist can solo you could do with 2 people. You should ask Xaril and Holnar about some of the things they've managed to do.

[Tanji Smanji]

Yes Lili, once again I know about soloing here and don't need lessons from you, been doin it for many many years. Managed to solo chlora as a sorc before. The fact you can solo something doesn't give you the right to say it needs to be downed. Someone else may have busted their ass to get it while you went and twinked it.

[Lilithelle]

Your not listening, i'm saying even if it can't be solo'd by non-elementalists it can at least be duo's or at worst trio'd. No ass busting required.

[Zoldren]

another zone fugged by people who like twinking it.

like i said, lil what cant you solo?

dont bother saying anything about eq changes just ask lil if she can solo it, then down it, thats the way it seems anyway.

oh wait sorry, thats why there was a path from ghore into a little non agro newbie zone right to bg.. wonder whos idea that was... ya evils are alot harder now that goodies play them :(

[Lilithelle]

Its not my intention to get eq downgraded or zones made harder. I regret that ribcage especially scour/ivlium, and paracs to some extend was made harder because of me. I hope if they change ribcage it won't be so drastically as to wreck it for others. If ribcage is too easy though, its not because of me, its that there are features of almost every fight that makes it easy when done a certain way.

For my own sake I hope its not changed because I enjoy having zones to solo, and i like this zone. Changing mobs to bash on entry ended alot of my SG fun, and the Ribcage changes ended most of the fun i had there. Maybe the mud needs some zones that are meant to be done by elementalists or small groups. But I am willing to be part of the solution, if they think its too easy I can suggest a few ways to greatly reduce the ability of one or two people to do the zone. I'm sure it can be changed to whatever difficulty level one seeks.
Lil

[Zoldren]

Sorry lil, I didnt mean to be slaming you if it came off that way.

I agree there probably should be something that people could go do solo but as the "powers that be" say only groups.. well....ya..

Alot of people dont have the time to group. or dont want to be bothered. Yet this mud isnt supposed to be for solo..ya..

would be great if we could find a happy medium between downgrades and actualy fixes for problems.