Wrist razor

A forum for discussion of the object changes...one thread per item please. Read the first post!
Vahok
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Wrist razor

Postby Vahok » Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:35 pm

Another funny one. The old stats where kinda juicy but now they suck.
The hps were cut in down and +1dam removed. Scorps isn't the easiest of zones as is. I think cutting the hps down a bit, while leaving the 2 dam would have been a fair trade. The reason most people wear the razor is for the damage, the hp was a nice touch. If it was +2dam +9hps I'd still wear it...now I'm looking for a blue addie.
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Postby Ruxur » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:01 pm

agree, the wrist razor is one of the best items from that zone, it should still be 2 damage
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Postby Bilraex » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:02 pm

but wrist razor didnt require doing the zone, just sending in a small group to kill the patrol with it. easy item to get
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Postby kiryan » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:11 pm

funny how people see different items.

I'd rather it lost all melee stats and retained the hps and ac.
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Postby Maedor » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:15 pm

Bilraex wrote:but wrist razor didnt require doing the zone, just sending in a small group to kill the patrol with it. easy item to get


How about fixing fights like this so that the items can justify useful stats.
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:24 pm

In other words, change the mud to suit what you think the equipment should merit?
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Postby Maedor » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:36 pm

Ashiwi wrote:In other words, change the mud to suit what you think the equipment should merit?


Either that, or have fun doing seelie spob and muspel all day every day.

I could persoanlly care less what happens to razors:P In general, I'd rather see some fights tweaked to justify the rewards, instead of downgrading items and zones to unusable/unplayable levels.

Sue me for advocating variety
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Postby Ihazim » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:37 pm

please remove the wolverine claw description from wrist razors :p
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Postby thanuk » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:54 pm

Is there even an evil warrior usable item worth wearing on your wrists these days?

bring back dragonbones.
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Postby Gura » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:55 pm

of course thanuk. incase u didnt notice all of muspel eq is the shit now...so dug had to remove the restricts on his warr bracer so everyone would be so fond of muspel!
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'

Nokie wiggles his bottom.
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Postby Malia » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:55 pm

I think the muspel silvery bracer got the !evil flag removed.... nuf said
Dugmaren mutters in a surly voice 'Got any new strategy or going to continue with the "throw bodies at them til they get bored"? '

Dranth group-says 'i started drinkin when i found out galzar would be here'

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Postby Maedor » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:59 pm

How did Muspel end up with so many points. It isn't like it's hard or anything...at least not hard enough to merit half of the items it rewards.
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Postby thanuk » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:00 pm

Honestly, if you knew Dug at all you would realize he's not the kind of guy who would do something like that, so cut the shit.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Todrael » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:03 pm

Thanuk, what we are saying is based on observations. Not malice or disrespect. Facts and knowledge. All people defend with is 'You don't know him' or 'That's silly'. I don't see any facts to support an opposing view.
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Postby Malia » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:06 pm

Nah i agree Thanuk, Dug is hella nice and worked hard on it, I dont think he intentionaly made his zone greater or anything but knowing how the point system worked he was able to apply those points to be used the best, where as other zones werent. These other zones still might get re-adjusted putting points towards stats that would actualy benefit the players. Shouldnt be any pointing of fingers yet this is all on a trial basis anyways. Props to all those that put in the hard work, the concept was a good thought, just the result was less then expected.
Dugmaren mutters in a surly voice 'Got any new strategy or going to continue with the "throw bodies at them til they get bored"? '



Dranth group-says 'i started drinkin when i found out galzar would be here'



Nerox says 'careful she goes from 0 to bitch in .00000001 seconds'



Mugo ASSOC:: 'ah got it on my gaytimer now :P'
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Postby thanuk » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:06 pm

Todrael wrote:Thanuk, what we are saying is based on observations. Not malice or disrespect. Facts and knowledge. All people defend with is 'You don't know him' or 'That's silly'. I don't see any facts to support an opposing view.


Not talking to you tod, or even people who say that all the good eq is in muspel now. What I dont like to see is:

Gura wrote:so dug had to remove the restricts on his warr bracer so everyone would be so fond of muspel!


Yeah muspel eq is looking pretty good these days. But is it just possible that the formula they used assigned a ton of points to muspel, which is very hard if you do it "The right way" as evils are so found of doing? Maybe its not that dugmaren is sitting alone in his room cackling "Now they'll all do only my zones!" while petting a shaved cat? Maybe?
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Todrael » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:07 pm

Doesn't matter if it's very hard "the right way". That wasn't even part of the calculations.
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Postby Gura » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:08 pm

these changes didnt fix anything honestly. there's still only a couple areas to actually go to for eq now at high end. spob and seelie obviously and invasions. that new orc hall apparently is pretty weak but its point system apparently allows a 3dam headwear and a proc shield?
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby thanuk » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:10 pm

Todrael wrote:Doesn't matter if it's very hard "the right way". That wasn't even part of the calculations.


Look at cyric's post dude. Patrols, multi-mob fights, assisting and aggro grid mobs are worth the most amount of points. That's why muspel, jot, and ET got upgraded.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Gura
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Postby Gura » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:12 pm

and it totally explains why bc got downgraded too!
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby belleshel » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:14 pm

"How did Muspel end up with so many points. It isn't like it's hard or anything...at least not hard enough to merit half of the items it rewards."

It has a lot of mob levels, it has several modifiers that help as well (i.e. can't shift in most places). I'm sure Muspel is completely fair according to the new DugSys EQ system. I'm just starting to have my doubts about how accurately that system reflects on an items worth. Basically you have to have HUGE zones or zones that only reward a very small amount of items.
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Postby belleshel » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:18 pm

"If it was +2dam +9hps I'd still wear it...now I'm looking for a blue addie."

btw. Vahok, Netherils are now just +2dam... Razors are easy to get, while Netherils are a total pain. Noway Razors should be as good/better.
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Postby Gura » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:22 pm

razors are just as hard to get as goodie warr bracers from muspel they're just not rareload. but i think the restrictions would balance something like that out...even though musp invasion loads like 5x a week
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby Vahok » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:26 pm

belleshel wrote:"If it was +2dam +9hps I'd still wear it...now I'm looking for a blue addie."

btw. Vahok, Netherils are now just +2dam... Razors are easy to get, while Netherils are a total pain. Noway Razors should be as good/better.


Retriction on netherils now? I'm evil, so as Thanuk put it...

Is there even an evil warrior usable item worth wearing on your wrists these days?
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Vahok
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Postby Vahok » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:32 pm

Plus, now do we all have to do muspel just to get a different, functional piece of wrist wear? The razors are horrible now. And taking more damage away from melee doesn't seem to be the best answer for me. Didn't think the netheril should have got changed, and if so, maybe drop ac is it...

Also, as others have pointed out, why change good functional eq just because some people can twink it or the whole zone doesn't need to be done to get it? Change the location in the zone or upgrade the mobs with the eq.

Looking for suggestions now for decent evil warrior wrist wear (and yes, muspel one is noted...)
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Postby Gura » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:34 pm

ya know when fangs belt loaded in crypts it was too powerful...you just moved the item to a different zone. i think vahok is on to somethin!
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:53 pm

Don't forget that one of the reasons for doing the eq changes was so that even harder zones with better equipment could be implemented. Musp might have the sweet gear now, but that doesn't mean the future won't change that.

Yes, Dug just might sit in his room cackling and petting a shaved cat, I could see him doing just that. I think there's higher odds he'd take his pet cat off to raid the ale fountain, though.
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Postby Gura » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:31 pm

it also doesnt mean every item from other zones should be downgraded
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:23 pm

well, i don't see wrist razor being like ac7 +2 dam +5hp or whatever being an issue either. They did take a significant hit, and i think dropping 9hp EACH is pretty darn significant. Making the fight for it a tad bit harder would be nice. but overall i think the big issue stands with the illusionist fold and rogue sneak tactic that allows people to completely avoid certain parts of zones. and if +dam and +hp are worth so many "points" in eq balance, explain how ring of darkness has better stats than conquest armor *duck*
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:35 pm

somebody said earlier that razor was on an early, semi-easy fight in the zone, and didnt require completion of the whole zone. true enough.
BUT
have you EVER gone to scorps and stopped at razors? maybe once, if the scaler or resser ld-ed... i had many many trips thru that "yawn-out bash the liches or sorcerers or whatever for hours so that we can get the mage eq at the end and THEN we'll let you bid on razors zone" before i finally got two of em. And I never saw anyone ever get to bid on em if they left early. Stuff like that should have at least a little say.
As it is, why not make it a quest that you can nab on your way out from finishing the zone. Keep the fight, too. just put a mob in after or something.
But personally, i think tons of fights should have just been upgraded, rather than fragging valuable and popular eq...especially the noobie stuff.
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Postby belleshel » Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:45 pm

grorrakk wrote:BUT have you EVER gone to scorps and stopped at razors? maybe once, if the scaler or resser ld-ed...


Many many times.

The fight has been very twinkable, well down, grab razors and leave, 20 min trip max with a small group.
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Postby Gura » Fri Nov 07, 2003 6:04 pm

and you can do muspel first grid with a rogue in 20minutes for 3 or 4 items better than a razor now. point is it shouldnt have lost 1dam.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby belleshel » Fri Nov 07, 2003 6:30 pm

I think its pretty obvious Muspel needs some changes. If you are going to move Razors back to +2dam then quest items like netherils better be at least +3dam.
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Postby Gura » Sat Nov 08, 2003 6:43 am

why should quest items like netherils be 3dam? storm bracelets are already 3dam 3maxdex why not make netherils 4dam and paladin/ranger only....that might be balancing and a benefit to melee
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby belleshel » Sat Nov 08, 2003 7:24 am

Sounds good;)
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Postby Wobb » Sat Nov 08, 2003 3:58 pm

This item should be changed back.
This item undeservedly took one of the hardest hits.

Wobb
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Postby thanuk » Sat Nov 08, 2003 4:17 pm

Wobb wrote:This item should be changed back.
This item undeservedly took one of the hardest hits.

Wobb


Nah wrist razor needed to be downgraded. I just didnt think it would get hit so hard. Lose 1 dam or lose some of the hps, but both? thats rough.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Gura » Sat Nov 08, 2003 8:37 pm

this is just another item to add to the list of skipped eq from zones because it sucks...right next to tf circlets.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby Ihazim » Sat Nov 08, 2003 8:59 pm

downgrade the wolverine claw description.
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Postby Kifle » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:41 pm

I do agree, the dgrade to the razor was harsh, but if you look at it objectivly the fight was twinkable. You could make the fight behind a locked door, !track and have a few sentinal mobs in front of it with a key in their inventory and make them 56 lvl mobs so you cant steal it. Easy fix. Just make them 2dam 7-9hps ac3-5. Case closed. Also, the storm bracelet is whack, plain and simple. While max dex is almost useless to us halflings, I will still try my hardest to get ahold of these. 3dam was godly on an item before the changes and I have lost hit/dam since then. It doesn't make sense that it can be 3dam 3max dex while things like netherils are 2dam. Scorp earrings are crap and Et earrings are still the bomb shiznit. I quit playing because I'm not going to get stuck in the trend of doing spob/seelie for the rest of my mudding career. I understand you are making way for new zones to come in, but I love my old zones. I love going to CC, TF, and even SG because it was my first cool zone I ever did on Toril. Don't placate the interests of new zone creators and alienate the old ones. Why put in new zones if we have 100 that are never done? Seems rather rediculous and a huge waste of time to even restat any of the items if the end result is the same as the begining.

Sorry if I seem a bit upset or insulting, I really don't mean anything bad by what I say, but I'm having one of my favorite past times striped from me in a sense.
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Postby kiryan » Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:36 am

twinkable....

someone enlighten me.

what is the smallest group that twinked wrist razor?

or by twink do we mean can sneak past all the mobs leading up to it...

if you guys gonna dgrade stuff because players can use unique skills like sneak and fold to actually save time on a zone then you might as well delete rogues and illusionists.

This calculation engine that puts emphasis on # of mobs to fight before getting to the eq doesn't work for this item. any manscorp squad is hard to kill straight up without 2 tanks, slow poison, scales, and significant damage (or a gang of healing).

That one fight is harder than all of SG imo.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Ihazim » Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:16 am

i think 5 was the smallest
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Postby Dalar » Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:56 am

4 i think, wey corth healer stoner
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Ranor » Fri Nov 14, 2003 8:14 am

Dalar wrote:4 i think, wey corth healer stoner


Yeah it was 4 people, ranger(tank), chanter, cleric, Illu.... we killed the king with that group after we did the razor.
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Postby Waelos » Fri Nov 14, 2003 9:42 am

*laugh* that was alot of fun =) I think the razor should be kinda better than it is. . . maybe 2dam 5hps ac 5? Might be a good compromise =)
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Postby Yayaril » Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:04 pm

Dalar wrote:4 i think, wey corth healer stoner


I guess Inama has that beat by soloing it.
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Postby Waelos » Fri Nov 14, 2003 6:21 pm

Solo'd king?
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Nov 14, 2003 6:37 pm

I think she solo'd wrist razor, I don't know about the king. I'm pretty sure she and I two-manned the wrist razor, if my memory serves me right.
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Postby belleshel » Fri Nov 14, 2003 8:01 pm

She's solo'd Razor pretty sure, we've done king with a tiny group, although we used a rogue.
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Nov 14, 2003 8:45 pm

We (some bystanders) had the misfortune of witnessing some staff f'g w/inama's trip on a rareload dragon by changing some mobs to block exits, making rooms one-ways when she was engaged, having manscorps leaders walk into our room (beating the shit outta us, because I said that it wasn't fair that someone had mastered the zone, so that was the thanks! :P ) *sniff* I'm feeling good that we had prompted being snooped!! woot! Now Dalar's got company! We should call the group 'Snooped Dawgs!' *nod me*

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