Avengers

A forum for discussion of the object changes...one thread per item please. Read the first post!
Cirath
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Avengers

Postby Cirath » Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:47 pm

I might have understood why you took some hit and dam off the unholy, since its seems all 2handers took a hit, but i cant for the life of me figure out why holy not only kept all ots hit/dam, but got an upgrade, and hase a quest about 1/10 as hard as unholy. i understand it needed an upgrade, but thats a little stilly, dont you think?

i vote for equality in avengers.
Gura
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Postby Gura » Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:49 pm

yea i still dont understand the downgrade on unholy avenger. it isnt that uber and i'd say the quest is pretty difficult. u already downgraded the books mightily from the quest i dunno bout the plate and collar but that sword makes antipaladins worth playing seeing how they suck otherwise...would be nice if u reconsidered it
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:19 pm

agree with both 100%
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Postby Diel » Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:35 pm

Amen! Just seems kinda lame how 90% of the mud is evil, so that just makes the unholy avenger that much less powerful than the holy avenger, yet the good gets upgrade and evil goes down da hole... I think i'm rambling so yeah.. agree or disagree :P
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Postby Cordan » Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:40 pm

Explain something to me. I've heard in game that holy avenger lost heal, armor, stone, and bless, and that it now holy words like crazy.


You people call this an upgrade?


Someone clear this up for me please before I continue trying to get one. Haven't been able to get one by trade or group (only need one more sphere) for going on a year now.
Cirath
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Postby Cirath » Sat Nov 08, 2003 4:40 am

Holy now has 2 damage procs (holy word, and a single target, non align based proc), breach, and as I understand it, heal will be put back on it soon. It also currently has more hit/dam than any other weapon in the game. Yes, i call that an upgrade.
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Postby Cordan » Sat Nov 08, 2003 4:54 am

Blah, take the lag off of the holy word proc! I counted 7 rounds of lag plus roughly 10 seconds more after fight ended when avenger proc'd holy word.... nearly got me killed. Upgraded yeah, but not really safe to use unless you clearing SS.....
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Postby Yasden » Mon Nov 10, 2003 8:29 pm

Not to mention it feels like Deathknell's heal rate was seriously downgraded too, from my experimentation. 17 heal procs over the course of 600 attacks (by soloing treants in DS). Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
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Postby Sarkhon » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:09 am

Ditto to what Cordan said -- as stated by various Gods several times in the past, the whole purpose to the (at the time upcoming) Ambran changes was precipitated by making the weapon more friendly in zones (ie, getting rid of stone so you could be dscaled, getting rid of dispel magic so you wouldnt risk the chance of zapping silence, etc).

Now I'm still reserving comment on the effectiveness of the current changes till I toy with it a bit more, but something has to give on the holy word lag. If the purpose was to make this more friendly in zones, then how can you justify a lag so long that it will either kill the person wielding it in tight circumstances or remove any possibility of an efficient rescue? Or better yet, to piss off leaders by keeping you lagged and unable to move with the group as they progress forward.

If anything, these changes made them WORSE to zones, because at least before you could switch out your weapons after Dscale, or simply remove the weapon when fighting casting MOBs. Please take a careful look at this, as I counted a 15 second lag on one fight alone a few nights ago ... this is just unacceptable, and one of the furthest things from "zone friendly" that I can think of. Thanks.
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Postby thanuk » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:15 am

Explain to us who dont play paladins...

The sword randomly procs holy word and then lags you for proccing it? if so, thats farked up.
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Postby Sarkhon » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:44 am

Basically, Ambran has been designed to proc holy word at a pretty consistent rate. Now holy word has an inherent lag to the spell, but with the sword it appears -- again, that's APPEARS -- to lag even moreso than the spell itself. Because it proc's so often, once you stack a few holy words onto one another you're left with about 5-6 second lags during large portions of the fight. It seriously got so bad during my first night of using it that I figured the server was just heavily lagged ... not so though.

Don't think I need to explain how this pocket of lag virtually destroys a paladin's ability to rescue, bash, flee when called for, or simply keep up with the group from room to room. So that's basically where we stand ... which is arguably worse off than before. I really do appreciate the thought that went into balancing the weapon (and for once I'm not saying that in a sarcastic way), but the lag really does need to be looked at for the weapon to receive its presumably "zone friendly" intention
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Postby Eilistraee » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:54 am

The lag is a bug that has been fixed and is waiting to be copied over.

The frequency of the procs has been adjusted to be similar to the unholy avenger.

The heal/armor/bless should return when the code is copied over, again with a slight modification.

No I do not know anything about the physical stats on the sword. I just do the procs. The lag is a known issue that has been fixed and complaining repeatedly about it won't result in a faster transfer. I'm sorry it's inconvenient, but it WILL be fixed.
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Postby Sarkhon » Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:10 am

Eilistraee, I do appreciate that the lag is being looked at and fixed. I do, however, take a bit of issue with your snipe at people "complaining repeatedly." I know everyone behind the scenes is probably busy discussing these changes, but you can't expect your players to know of what's going on unless you tell them. The closest thing we've had is a post by Aedaris that he *heard* that the heal was being looked into ... that's hearsay at best, and didn't address what both Cordan and myself have posted about.

For all we know, we're simply bringing something to your attention that has been overlooked amidst the myriad complaints you are surely receiving. After all, isn't that what's this forum is for? Noone is responding disrespectfully in this thread, so at least extend the same courtesy in your responses. Thanks again for taking care of this.
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Postby Ensis » Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:32 am

Sarkhon wrote:Eilistraee, I do appreciate that the lag is being looked at and fixed. I do, however, take a bit of issue with your snipe at people "complaining repeatedly." I know everyone behind the scenes is probably busy discussing these changes, but you can't expect your players to know of what's going on unless you tell them. The closest thing we've had is a post by Aedaris that he *heard* that the heal was being looked into ... that's hearsay at best, and didn't address what both Cordan and myself have posted about.

For all we know, we're simply bringing something to your attention that has been overlooked amidst the myriad complaints you are surely receiving. After all, isn't that what's this forum is for? Noone is responding disrespectfully in this thread, so at least extend the same courtesy in your responses. Thanks again for taking care of this.


It's "A Myriad" not just "Myriad" Duh.
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Postby thanuk » Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:45 pm

Ensis wrote:
Sarkhon wrote:Eilistraee, I do appreciate that the lag is being looked at and fixed. I do, however, take a bit of issue with your snipe at people "complaining repeatedly." I know everyone behind the scenes is probably busy discussing these changes, but you can't expect your players to know of what's going on unless you tell them. The closest thing we've had is a post by Aedaris that he *heard* that the heal was being looked into ... that's hearsay at best, and didn't address what both Cordan and myself have posted about.

For all we know, we're simply bringing something to your attention that has been overlooked amidst the myriad complaints you are surely receiving. After all, isn't that what's this forum is for? Noone is responding disrespectfully in this thread, so at least extend the same courtesy in your responses. Thanks again for taking care of this.


It's "A Myriad" not just "Myriad" Duh.


Actually, its not :wink:
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You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

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You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Ensis
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Postby Ensis » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:17 am

Outa curiosity.. what did deathknell get degraded to?

Seems they should be equal, I always figured the quest for avenger was waaaaaaaaaaay easier than deathknell. Just the waiting game that sucked.
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Postby Pheten » Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:19 am

was dropped to 5/4 on hitdam, everything else = same
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Postby Ensis » Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:12 pm

Pheten wrote:was dropped to 5/4 on hitdam, everything else = same


So avenger is 8d4 6 6 holyword, armor/bless, breach, heal, damage proc and unholy is 8d4 5 4 unholy word, armor/bless, heal, full heal on deathblow?.. yea that kinda doesn't make sense. specially given the quest involved for unholy.
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Postby Aldavien » Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:06 pm

Unholy still has infra/senselife/farsee right? As far as I can tell those were worth a ton of points in and of themselves. And it's not like that's the only piece of eq you get from the quest either...
Cirath
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Postby Cirath » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:39 pm

Ensis wrote:
So avenger is 8d4 6 6 holyword, armor/bless, breach, heal, damage proc and unholy is 8d4 5 4 unholy word, armor/bless, heal, full heal on deathblow?..


close, but no, unholy doesnt armor/bless, but it does proc on crit. and if you think unholy word is a fair balance to holy word you are out of your mind.

make holy harder to get, and drop the hit/dam
Ensis
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Postby Ensis » Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:29 am

Cirath wrote:
Ensis wrote:
close, but no, unholy doesnt armor/bless, but it does proc on crit. and if you think unholy word is a fair balance to holy word you are out of your mind.

make holy harder to get, and drop the hit/dam


I think sense life/infra/farsee was twilight..unholy doesn't have those does it?

As far as holy word versus holy word..they're both procs. Just because there aren't zones to balance out for an anti doesn't mean the weapon isn't balanced. Breach isn't super useful against mobs that don't have buffs on em.
Cirath
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Postby Cirath » Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:15 am

yeah, unholy has infra/farsee/sense life
Ikus
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Postby Ikus » Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:50 am

So where does the Unholy Avenger stand now?

As far as I'm told,its 5d4 4/3 and some cool procs.

If thats the case my flammy is better....
Ikus
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Postby Ikus » Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:54 am

Delmair tells you '8d4 5/4 same procs as before'

Nvm.
Cirath
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Postby Cirath » Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:10 pm

*bump*
Salen
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Postby Salen » Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:12 pm

Why did this need bumped? Was there something more to say than

1 is a bitch to quest, one is easy.


They know quests are screwed.
They know 2handers are screwed.

It took 6 months of hard work to F them up this bad, you'll have to give them some time F'n err.... Fixing it.

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