Hulburg Changes!

A forum for discussion of the object changes...one thread per item please. Read the first post!
Cyric
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Hulburg Changes!

Postby Cyric » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:16 pm

The Hulburg changes are in. Please use this thread to comment on them.

DK and Havenport are done and pending final approval, then will be added probably tomorrow or the next day. I'll add threads for those 2 as well.

Enjoy.
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Bandolier

Postby Klandal » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:33 pm

a hard leather bandolier with mithril studs

Why quest an item that has NO stats other than wt2? You can buy a scabbard for a few gold that is wt1... how unintelligent.
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Postby Dizzin » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:37 pm

Okies.

1. eye of the hive mother - 18 hp -4int. Remove the -int and MAYBE it'll be worn over the fugging spob mask.

2. chain of black acid pearls - 18hp -9wis compare to the uber wussy to get muspel necklaces. Remove the wisdom loss, or give it some ac or pfa or something.

3. bandolier - I dont mind if all quivers are going to lose their stats, but why in the hell does the ET quiver still have its?

4. one-eyed bludgeon of crushing - make it Clericable. It's supposed to be useable by the priests of Gruumsh after all.

All I've got for now. But I'm sure there will be more.
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Postby Dizzin » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:54 pm

Oh, and eyeball earring. If you're going to start removing non-sensical restrict flags from items, why stop here? How about ttf cloak, dscale robes, talisman of shadows/daggers etc.
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Postby Lilithelle » Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:22 pm

I can't see why nature sphere would go down to 22hp 5 max_wis, sure 5 max_wis is nice but thats no easy quest. Right now I'd rather have 24 hp 4 max_wis. Sphere takes doing hulbug, giving up an eldritch ring, and doing a bunch of other steps. Smoke invasion is easy by comparison. 25 hps i can see, but 22 is just stupid.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:33 pm

sphere of nature: the time commitment for sphere of nature vs sphere of air is lame. please add something special to it other than a protection. maybe a proc that does something nifty like lvl 50 group barkskin.

eye of hive mother: can you make it the exact same as spob mask? i think the spank potential to reach the final room and the difficulty of the last fight outweighs spob.

eyeball earring: awesome stats and i just hope that something isn't created that will beat it. that is one difficult quest.

enamel bracer: why no ac?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Dezzex » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:40 am

eye of the hive mother -- agree that it should be at least on par with the spob mask. like dalar says it comes from the pinnacle fight and is a trophy from the hive mother herself.

nature sphere -- also agree it should be at least on par with smoke invasion orb

whip -- better but i still wish it had its proc :)

other than that most seems decent, but haven't heard yet from a few items like lavish shoes, tail belt, eye encased in liquid, leggings of depth
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Postby omrec » Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:44 am

Sad about the pearls, I used to wear them because of the +style (cause they're just so ugly!), but losing 5 hp each hurts. Especially considering the other neckwear out there. The -9 wis hurts a ton, if you're going to reduce the hps, then reduce the penalty..:)
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Postby Dalar » Tue Dec 02, 2003 9:41 am

the beholder eye is just 1 maxint short of a orb of power. can the item just be modded to go into a different slot, like neck?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Dalar » Tue Dec 02, 2003 9:42 am

or possibly boots. ofc, change the name :P
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:58 pm

But there's already a pair of boots from there that's simply fahbulous dahling.
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:42 pm

8)

Can Arcane shoes be upgraded to not be fugly?
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:02 am

Mithril bandolier..um, wtf?? Why make a quested critter that's 0 stats??? *sigh* Boo hiss! :P It's not like 4 dex is even noticable, let alone overpowered
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Postby Gormal » Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:01 pm

Do +stats even matter now that its easier to roll a new character? I haven't tried to new roller yet so I don't really know, but it sounds like the value of +stat gear took a dive all around.
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Postby Stamm » Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:24 pm

Gormalio is right, stats are a fair bit easier now.

Quivers and bolt holder things do vary in capacity....
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:03 pm

Gormal wrote:Do +stats even matter now that its easier to roll a new character? I haven't tried to new roller yet so I don't really know, but it sounds like the value of +stat gear took a dive all around.


Probably matter to the older characters who didn't spend a week rolling for the absolute best stats they could come up with.
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Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:39 pm

I don't play a ranger and will never bother because of all they hype. Secondly, I don't want them going unemployed as 1w already has too much security. . . What does ammo capacity have to do with a quested bandolier being raped of it's stats? Just in my bags, I've noticed about 9% of eq was boosted (some seemingly inappropriately) and 91% RaPeD! There's very inconclusive reasoning; yet the ambiguous 'point system' is to blame. I just wish that a theme of gods, like a jury, could impartially but equally, evaluate eq. Then the eq could be compared zone vs. zone in difficulty. Definitely, quested eq should own any item that normally loads in a zone. BC and other zone's rareload stuff should be the bomb as well.
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Postby Salen » Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:08 pm

I've said it from the changes, and no one will admit it. There was no balance going on. It was a wholesale downngrade In order to balance something, you have to have a middle point. So far, NONE of the people involved has been able to say what that middle point was. Why? There wasn't one.

There is nothing ambiguous about the point system, it did what it was designed to do. It made 2-3 zones huge, and the rest tiny.
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Postby Waelos » Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:46 am

I dunno. . .I managed to upgrade myself significantly. Hps were on a whole downed but that was necessary imho. rest of the eq out there is good, just gotta look for it someplace other than pods =P

Lost
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Postby Stamm » Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:24 am

I came out of the changes pretty well Salen. I have to disagree.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:35 am

My ranger came out slightly better. I originally lost about 6dam, I'm still about one short of where I was, but swapping some eq out, saves wise I came out ontop. Gained more. Now, i'm just waiting for scorps to change so I can stop wearing gay diamondines. :P
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Postby Dalar » Sun Dec 07, 2003 10:04 am

Salen, you're wearing crappy eq. Please quit whining about eq changes and play the game
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Guest

Postby Guest » Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:58 pm

Ooooh, Damn! Feel the wrath of Dalar's backhand :P Now find your place back in line, Salen :lol:
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:01 pm

I think eq changes were right on. It is my opinion that these changes were made to define a line between the midlevel and high-end stuff. As it was before, you could get some REAL nice midlevel gear that almost made the high level stuff worthless. Now this may not be the case in all fields, but it is so in many of them i've seen.

With a few obvious exceptions, most of them being bigger quest rewards.

The only unplanned, or perhaps it was planned, side effect is that 2 zones that i can think of have quite a bit of the higher-end stuff. This, in time, will be changed with the invent of new zones. Either way, who cares, it's a game, either play and enjoy it, or don't play. Constructive arguments to fix things that are way out of whack, great, but general bitching does nothing but spoil it for everyone else.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:38 am

i'm happy that my eyeball earring is the best in game, but not by that much i guess, unless alot of items lost sense life.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:40 am

I have done Hulburg 4 times now, twice as my troll warrior and twice as my lil gnome invoker. Twice the beholder general's plating didnt load. To even make the shield takes a decent amt of lil questage even after you get the plating. And yet the end result is disappointing.....clearly not as powerful as musp invasion shield.....

It has no proc attached to it, is of mediocre weight (barely more than that of 1 of the 5 ***** shields required as part of the quest), and its ac is just barely above mediocre... all that to get a 3 damroll shield.

Interestingly enough read its desc :

< > exa shield
This shield is made of the reinforced chitin of the beholder general.
It was magically infused with strange metal, providing him incredible
protection. This particular plate reveals that the armor was actually
grafted under the beholder's skin. Thick spikes penetrate the tough
chitin, about two inches in length, and simply propelling his mass
to strike against foes must have been a devastating attack. The shield
glows and hums, as if the spells that were cast on the armor still
last.

Now as i remember it..the plating was around wt 50 by itself...that added the fact that the smith was supposed to melt down 5 shields to supplement it....makes its weight a bit suspect...but where is the incredible protective qualities?....the shield has no hp, no additional saves attached to it...just 3 damroll....

I gotta admit that I made this shield because I figured that as a rare item (dunno how rare tho) from a driven zone that repops on you that you cannot escape from once you get into it for a really long time....it would have to be a lot better than the musp invasion shield....especially since it comes from the final fight in which you have to fight a helluva lotta beholders and such.

Sad to say, I am once again disappointed
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Postby Dalar » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:47 am

if you're talking about the armor plating, it's not rare
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Gura » Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:28 pm

if u want that shield upgraded i want my shield upgraded :P
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an eerie eyestalk ring

Postby Jhorr » Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:39 pm

Was this item overlooked?

As an item from the last fight in the zone, it's woefully underpowered.
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Postby Jhorr » Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:40 pm

That is, an eerie eyestalk ring....
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Postby Dalar » Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:21 am

i don't think it does anything does it?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Jhorr » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:41 pm

Nod Dalar, never did anything. Seems like it was overlooked?
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Postby Dezzex » Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:52 am

I always figured it was just a red herring item or an item to be used for future quest(s). Or just a Tia-treasure-like keepsake for the bid losers hehe. Not every zone item has to have stats, though I agree I would like to be wearing one of those things because eyes and eeriness are cool.

I think the tyrant shield is fine.. it's not an excessively difficult quest and procs aside it beats out most other shields. It was even upgraded from what it was before...
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Postby Dalar » Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:08 pm

yea, tarrasque has crap items nobody can use and the spores aren't used for anything either
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Sesexe » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:45 pm

Dear object evaluators and stat changers,

Please reconsider the changes made to this long, brutal, and often not done zone. The stats on most of the items before weren't especially desireable that the zone screamed to be done every boot, and with the recent changes, I see no point to visit the zone at all.

It's a long hike to get there.
You need a good group for it.
You need a lot of time to do it all.
Massive Spank potentials.

If the stats are going to stay the way they are, I suggest you just pull the zone entirely.

Thanks for your time.
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Postby Jhorr » Sat Mar 13, 2004 8:04 pm

I agree the eq is SLIGHTLY understatted for the effort this zone takes. In fact, there is still one item in there from the last fight with no stats at all.

Please don't pull this glorious zone though, it's one of the most exciting on the MUD.
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Postby Dalar » Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:53 pm

oh yea, there's also a shield in that zone that is impossible to get. it's quite decent too, please put it in game :) it's the grey-metal shield or whatever. has 2 maxagi on ti
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Re: Hulburg Changes!

Postby Sesexe » Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:15 pm

Cyric wrote:
DK and Havenport are done and pending final approval, then will be added probably tomorrow or the next day. I'll add threads for those 2 as well.

Enjoy.


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Postby Jhorr » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:08 pm

It has been over a year since Hulburg eq was looked at and I could probably count on 1 hand the number of times the zone has been done in that time. No doubt, this is because the risk vs. reward ratio remains very unbalanced. This zone still needs some attention. It is sooo much harder than TTF. and yet TTF has the better rewards. Let's compare:

Zone Pops?: TTF (no), Hulburg (yes)
Proc'ing beholders: TTF (none), Hulburg (lots)
Number of top tier items: TTF (4 !rare items per boot), Hulburg (none - not even the rare eq is really that great)
Spank potential: TTF (low-moderate), Hulburg (high)
CR difficulty: TTF (easy), Hulburg (hard)
Quest to enter zone?: TTF (none), Hulburg (yes - better store an extra key)

Dugmaren and I talked about this zone just before he resigned and he told me it was on his list of things to do. Now that he isn't working on this, is anyone else?

The suggestions above on this thread I think are still reasonable suggestions for re-stating the EQ, even 1 year later. One easy tweak that would help in my opinion would be to increase the load rates for the rares. Making the zone easier to do by increasing the pop time or modifying the pop mode would also improve the risk v. reward ratio but this is supposed to be a hard zone, so I wouldn't recommend that. Hulburg has a well-deserved reputation among players that it is a zone that is hard to complete and hard to lead.

Thanks for reading...

Jhorr
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Postby Jegzed » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:41 pm

Just upgrade the Hulburg items severely..
/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
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Postby Jhorr » Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:43 am

What he said
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Postby cherz » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:33 am

It was meant to have much better eq. I designed the quests, zone details (layout, pop, portable, etc.) and beholder procs -up to the very last eye- with the intention of being HARD. It wasn't intended for wusslings, but I knew the zone was stillborn once the eq had been neutered by Dugmaren. Oh well, you can still go in there for just stories and do most of the quests. Try talking to the bartender for a laugh 8)

Cherzra aka Shaundakul
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Postby Jhorr » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:46 am

Nogs Cherzra - the zone is really well written and it's a shame people don't explore it more. I still get a uniquely creepy feeling when running around down there, and in TTF as well. Few zones have such ambiance.
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:02 am

8)

It's a good thing that Hulberg gear isn't sought after for stats, as it is the ugliest gear in the game. I can't imagine the gaudiness of a world where everyone wanted to wear this stuff.
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Postby Corth » Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:10 am

Definately agree that the ambiance of TTF was creepy as hell. Cherzra might be a bitter prick but I have to admit he can write a zone. On the other hand, Yayaril is right about the colors... ewwww.

Unfortunately never got around to doing Hulburg. Seems like another example of why the massive eq change was not implemented properly. What will end up happening is hulburg items will become necessary in quests for other zones. Thats how these neglected zones always end up getting brought back.

Corth
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:27 am

Beautifully written zone, fantastic quests... still hating you Cherz, ya old bastage! Hope you're doing well.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:26 am

Hulburg is the reason why my darkblue in zmud is now white. If you thought Cherzra was weird... talk to Stefan in Hulburg. It's actually kinda amusing considering how he reacted to Miax :)
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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